Tablets - iPad vs. MS Surface vs. Asus Transformer Prime

[LikwidCirkel]

With the announcement of the MS Surface with it's novel keyboard/cover, would you consider getting one?

If you could choose between the MS Surface, an Asus Transformer Prime and an iPad, which would you take?

I put the Asus Transformer Prime in the poll, because it's the closest Android thing to what I would expect from the MS Surface.

For me, I really like modular keyboards, and I would totally choose the Transformer Prime. I think there is some potential with the MS Surface, but we will have to wait and see just how good or horrible the MS offering is.

I would never get an iPad... for no particular reason other than not wanting to be one of those Apple people.

[Endless Mike]

I voted Surface because I already have an iPad and I don't want something broken out of the box and with horrendous customer service like the Transformer Prime.

That said, your poll should specify whether you mean the MS Surface featuring Windows RT or the MS Surface Pro featuring Windows 8. These are two different devices that are different levels of bad.

[hotaru]

I voted Surface because ... I don't want something broken out of the box and with horrendous customer service

what.
horrendous customer service is the only kind of customer service you'll find for any tablet. the only alternative is no customer service, which is what you'll probably get from microsoft if their track record with non-corporate customers of their other products is any indication.

i voted for "other without keyboard", because that's what i got: http://usb.brando.com/gadmei-t883-3d-ta ... 51d15.html
if i want a keyboard, i can plug in any usb keyboard and it just works. also, with it's 5000 mAh battery (vs. the transformer prime's 3380 mAh battery), a much less power-hungry (but still very capable) cpu and gpu, and a smaller screen, it'll easily last a couple days of heavy use on a charge, while the transformer prime probably wouldn't last one day. and it costs about half as much as the transformer prime, but i guess that doesn't really matter if you're getting it for free...

i wouldn't even consider the microsoft one until someone cracks secure boot.

as for the ipad, iOS still lacks a number of features that i use all the time on android, and android hasn't been ported to it yet, so i'd have a lot of work to do before it would really be usable.

[Iranon]

Tentatively, MS Surface.
Not sure how pleasant to use that "keyboard" going to be, existence of a "touchpad" seems strange and it may well feel cheap and horrible... we'll see.
Windows 8 has many design quirks that make me want to headbutt a wall, but at least it's a full-fledged OS with some consideration towards touch-screen-online interaction.

I don't trust myself to get a full-fat *nix working to my satisfaction on a tablet, and I feel neutered under Android/iOS.

[Endless Mike]

I voted Surface because ... I don't want something broken out of the box and with horrendous customer service

what.
horrendous customer service is the only kind of customer service you'll find for any tablet. the only alternative is no customer service, which is what you'll probably get from microsoft if their track record with non-corporate customers of their other products is any indication.

No, Apple has excellent customer service. If you have an issue, they'll replace your unit with a new or refurbished one (depending on what they have in stock) with no cost to you beyond a couple days without your iPad (or a half hour of your time if there's an Apple store nearby). (If you don't want an iPad, that's fine, but they have some of the best CS available, and are documented as such, so claiming otherwise is being disingenuous.)

Contrast with Asus, who has documented cases of refusing warranty work because the sticker with the serial number came off, expecting the customer to pay shipping both ways even if it is a proven defect (I can at least understand it if it's not a warranty concern), customers getting back units that appear to have been beaten with a hammer despite it being in excellent shape when sent in, and customers getting back entirely different models.

As for broken out of the box, the Asus Eee Pad Transformer Prime has a GPS so completely useless that they removed it from the spec sheet *after* launch and eventually gave a free dongle (that doesn't work with the keyboard), reports that wifi is not terribly good (both of these are because it has a completely metal back plate), plus the occasional software glitches that are inherent with Android.

I will say that the keyboard being connected directly to the tablet and extending the battery is a *really* nice feature, however, that neither the iPad nor Surface have.

Tentatively, MS Surface.
Not sure how pleasant to use that "keyboard" going to be, existence of a "touchpad" seems strange and it may well feel cheap and horrible... we'll see.
Windows 8 has many design quirks that make me want to headbutt a wall, but at least it's a full-fledged OS with some consideration towards touch-screen-online interaction.

Depends which Surface you're talking about. The Surface runs Windows RT which is *not* full Windows. The desktop is *only* usable with Office (since the Office team said hell no to compromising Office to work in Metro). Otherwise you're stuck with Metro and its apps, which isn't *technically* a problem since it's running an ARM build so nothing else will work on it, anyway. The Surface Pro runs Windows 8 Pro and is a full OS on x86, but is so big you may as well just carry the extra 100 or so grams and get an 11" ultrabook since it's going to cost the same, anyway, and probably not have as good battery life (there were comments from MS that both models are using the same battery).

[Arariel]

Even though I don't use KDE any more, I still want to get the KDE tablet that's coming soon. I had very good experiences with KDE, but LXDE gives me a longer battery life. I'm sure they'll make a very good tablet, though. Note that this tablet is NOT the KDE DE for GNU/Linux desktop distros.

[webzter_again]

bought wife an ipad 2 a while ago. Form factor isn't bad. I absolutely despise ios development though.

have an android phone. based on my phone and others I've played with, I'm not a big fan of how sluggish a lot of apps are. Development doesn't suck as much though.

A windows tablet would be a natural fit with my dev stack, but I'm not sure. We'll see once I get my hands on the RT and pro.

[hotaru]

No, Apple has excellent customer service.

sure, telling customers that obvious defects don't exist, or that they're "holding it wrong", until someone goes to the trouble of suing them is "excellent customer service".
just do a google search for "ipod scratches", or "iphone antenna", or "ipad overheating"...

[Endless Mike]

No, Apple has excellent customer service.

sure, telling customers that obvious defects don't exist, or that they're "holding it wrong", until someone goes to the trouble of suing them is "excellent customer service".
just do a google search for "ipod scratches", or "iphone antenna", or "ipad overheating"...

iPod scratches: Yes, plastic scratches. People thinking a device is indestructible is the issue here, especially considering they continued to function as intended with some scratches.
iPhone antenna: Independent studies have shown it to be nowhere near as big a problem as the media suggested. Yeah, it attenuates if you short out both antennas, and Apple shouldn't have released it as such. When it was working properly, it had better reception than previous models. They also offered a full refund or a free case to anyone who wanted it before the lawsuit.
iPad overheating: Complete bullshit. It gets warm, but Consumer Reports, who initially reported it is on the record saying it's not uncomfortable.

[hotaru]

iPod scratches: Yes, plastic scratches. People thinking a device is indestructible is the issue here, especially considering they continued to function as intended with some scratches.

apple admitted it was a legitimate defect after the lawsuit, and fixed the problem in later ipods.

iPhone antenna: Independent studies have shown it to be nowhere near as big a problem as the media suggested. Yeah, it attenuates if you short out both antennas, and Apple shouldn't have released it as such. When it was working properly, it had better reception than previous models. They also offered a full refund or a free case to anyone who wanted it before the lawsuit.

they've never offered a full refund. they offered people $15 or a free case as part of the settlement for the lawsuit, not before the lawsuit.

iPad overheating: Complete bullshit. It gets warm, but Consumer Reports, who initially reported it is on the record saying it's not uncomfortable.

it was initially reported by users on apple's support forum, who did say it was uncomfortable. if you really think you've got a case here, let's see you hold something that's 116°F for more than 10 minutes. sure, it might not be hot enough to cause injury, but it is definitely uncomfortable, and more importantly, warm enough to cause the ipad to shut itself down to prevent damage.

[KnightExemplar]

Surface isn't even out yet. Without a price point, it seems a bit silly to compare it to the other things.

[Nick G]

Microsoft Surface for me. Something a bit different from the competition, and will be a nice machine. Not a direct iPad competitor though.

[Steax]

Regardless of OS limitations, the iPad has the apps that make it for me, and I no longer use a laptop because of it.

I've had experience with a slew of different manufacturers, and Apple performed best. I kind of wish I had an actual file system, but Dropbox serves even better.

[Copper Bezel]

Guys, you can't seriously raise the Transformer Prime antenna on one side of the argument and the iPhone 4 antenna on the other. Both companies decided they wanted more metal showing, it reduced reception ever so slightly in low-reception situations, and both pretended that it wasn't a design fault. Um.

So, yeah, for the poll to make sense, we're talking about the Surface RT, because the Surface Pro is at the pricepoint of the Macbook Air and Asus Zenbook or Transformer Book.

I voted Transformer Prime, but I'm not really sure about that. The Surface RT seems to be the better device in every possible way, including the OS. The design seems more self-consistent, even if it has this impractical requirement of a desk or table to use the keyboard, and it's prettier. The OS has windowing and a reasonable application switcher, along with a visual design that could be described as "bold and timeless" and a UI paradigm that avoids the incoherence of Android's while having more functionality than iOS.

The limitations on software that can be run under the RT environment - Microsoft-approved apps that contain no GPL code and (presumably) don't duplicate core functionality - are extremely strict, and a machine without a file manager and office suite doesn't qualify as being a "real computer" any more than the iPad (and slightly less than Android does.)

I use Linux now because it's a better OS than Windows, despite having jack all for enduser applications. Android vs. Windows RT is the other way around. I don't honestly know which way I'd go with that.

Not sure how pleasant to use that "keyboard" going to be, existence of a "touchpad" seems strange and it may well feel cheap and horrible... we'll see.

The trackpad is for moving the cursor while typing. That's why it's so absurdly small. It's not intended as the primary pointing device when docked.

(there were comments from MS that both models are using the same battery).

The battery capacities were released at the event (and the Pro's really is larger, by 10 wh.) What we don't know is the battery life that computes to with this hardware and under the Windows 8 and RT operating systems, which are still relative unknowns.

[Endless Mike]

Just FYI, Surface RT ships (I think?) with MS Office. It will certainly have it available. I'm not sure if they've stated exactly which parts will be included, but I think it's an easy bet to say Word, Excel, and Outlook will be there, and I wouldn't be shocked to see OneNote included, as well. In fact, it the only RT app that will be allowed to use the desktop, since MS is, as a company, entirely broken and the Office team refused to compromise Office to work in Metro.

[Copper Bezel]

Well, damn. That's weird as hell, but thanks for the heads up. What's weirding me out is that some screenshots from the TechEd reveal omit the taskbar (cf. here and here.) It's crazy. I didn't realize that the desktop could function on RT.

Oh, here's a funny thought. How do you have two documents side by side in the same Metro app? You can switch between open documents within a window, or have two windows side-by-side, but a single Metro app could only be one of those windows at any time....

[webgiant]

I own an Original iPad, which I obtained shortly after the release in 2010. I have just been informed by a third party news source that Apple will not be releasing iOS 6 for the iPad, and will be ending security updates soon. I do not want another iPad, even as a gift.

People may replace their phones every two years on average, but they do not replace their desktops faster than every three to five years, and are prepared to pay more for a desktop precisely because of this extended replacement schedule. Thus I believe that Apple is seriously screwing up by attempting to replace the desktop with the tablet, but refusing to use a desktop replacement schedule and instead forcing the customer into a phone replacement schedule.

I plan on seriously violating any Apple warranty on that iPad in the near future, including jailbreaking and seeing if I can run an OS on it from a less authoritarian company. How ironic that Apple has become exactly like the company that its 1984 commercials were insulting as too rigid and authoritarian, and that company has embraced its community and become much more forgiving and tolerant of non-IBM technologies, such as Linux.

[Steax]

Eh, I think that's a general problem. Companies are going with more disposable-yet-cheap devices instead of bulkier-and-longer-term ones... As noted by how these tablets are so much harder to repair compared to desktops.

Notably, though, Macs back to 2007 and 2008 are compatible with Mountain Lion, which came out a couple months ago. So yeah, 3 to 5 years desktop support right there.

The original iPad is also almost 2 and a half years old now, and AppleCare+'s support is for 3 years. So that's basically sitting around your lower bound.

Again, not to be an apple fanboy, but to point out that it's not that extreme.

[EvanED]

The original iPad is also almost 2 and a half years old now, and AppleCare+'s support is for 3 years. So that's basically sitting around your lower bound.

Again, not to be an apple fanboy, but to point out that it's not that extreme.

No, it really is quite short. From the perspective of Apple, maybe a little less so, though 2 1/2 years is still very short IMO. But look at it from the perspective of owners. The iPad2 was announced on Mar 2, 2011: that's barely more than one and a half years ago. In other words, you could get the iPad 1 before 2 was announced, and not get an upgrade that's released barely a year and a half later.

I'm not necessarily saying it's bad in that case -- I don't know if there are technical requirements that make ios 6 not work (or work poorly) on the iPad2. But maybe it's because I'm used to Microsoft, but it seems that Apple support times are really quite short. (Even 3-5 years is not that great. I've been running Windows 8 on my mostly-5-year-old box, and it runs as good or better than Win7.)

[Steax]

It is quite short - I'm suggesting that it's not way too short. iOS 6 doesn't work very well on the iPad 1 for a bunch of different reasons, some of which make pretty good sense - no camera for any of the camera improvements, not a good enough processor for all the 3d mapping stuff going on, and not having built-in voice control to support Siri and her doohikies.

I just think that tablets can't be compared to desktops very well in this aspect; they're typically a cheaper package as a whole, they have far more incremental upgrades which are offered at a consistent pace (whereas desktops usually make big leaps at certain points, like the move to SSDs, the standards etc), and they're difficult to disassemble (which is the cost we pay for mobility).

A fairer comparison would be to Android. So I went ahead and found that, for Samsung devices, Jelly Bean support goes back to the Galaxy S II, and that was released in February 2011. Tablet-wise, it goes back to the Tab 2 versions, which were in June 2011.*

So yeah. Looks like a trend.

*) Of course, iOS has partial upgrades for older devices, and I don't know how Android does this. But for security updates, everyone should get it.

[eternalfrost]

For casual web browsing on your couch, its hard to beat an ipad. It is a shame it costs so much and can't easily hook into a non-itunes sanctioned media center though...

[hotaru]

For casual web browsing on your couch, its hard to beat an ipad. It is a shame it costs so much and can't easily hook into a non-itunes sanctioned media center though...

for web browsing? the iPad is the only tablet you can't run a decent web browser on.

[KnightExemplar]

For casual web browsing on your couch, its hard to beat an ipad. It is a shame it costs so much and can't easily hook into a non-itunes sanctioned media center though...

for web browsing? the iPad is the only tablet you can't run a decent web browser on.

The Surface is also the only one with handwriting recognition. I've written posts using a stylus before, and it works out pretty well. Not as good as a real keyboard of course, but I'd say its much better than anything iPad or Android has to offer.

Surface is a bit expensive compared to the others however. I'd probably compare the Dell Venue 8 Pro (or some other cheaper tablet) as the MS Representative. Surface is more of a laptop-replacement than a tablet.

[Copper Bezel]

Now. When the thread started, the MS Surface RT (1), the iPad ... whatever it was at the time, 2? ... and the Asus Transformer Prime with keyboard dock were all hitting around the same $500 mark.

[hotaru]

The Surface is also the only one with handwriting recognition. I've written posts using a stylus before, and it works out pretty well. Not as good as a real keyboard of course, but I'd say its much better than anything iPad or Android has to offer.

android has had handwriting input for a while... not built-in, but "Google handwriting input" works really well.

[KnightExemplar]

The Surface is also the only one with handwriting recognition. I've written posts using a stylus before, and it works out pretty well. Not as good as a real keyboard of course, but I'd say its much better than anything iPad or Android has to offer.

android has had handwriting input for a while... not built-in, but "Google handwriting input" works really well.

A "while" is a stretch. They added it April this year. The quote above was correct at the time I posted it ( Dec. 2014).

http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2015 ... in-82.html

I haven't played with it, but if they got it working well, then good job.

[WanderingLinguist]

Handwriting from Google is fairly new, but the Galaxy Note line of devices have had handwriting support for a while longer. I've got a Note Pro 12.2, but I haven't used handwriting recognition enough to comment on how accurate it is; my main use is sketching rather than text input. It seems decent with some trivial tests, and amazingly, seems like it does a good job of recognizing my crappy non-native Korean handwriting (not surprising it supports Korean, since Samsung is a Korean company, but surprising it recognizes my Korean.)