Blistering blue barnacles

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Zohar
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Zohar » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:26 pm UTC

I haven't watched any of the flipping shows, and I'm certainly in a good place in terms of housing and financials, so this may impact me differently.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Sableagle » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:18 pm UTC

Yes, google, I *know* there's a lot about the purchase in the news. Yes, I *know* Ellen likes it. What I'm looking for is a particular mention of the purchase that made a reference to Ellen, which I know was posted by a person, group or other entity operating under a particular name. That's why I put the name in the search bar. I know you like to ignore common words taht you don't think will be helpful in the search, but when someone puts +" before and " after a particular part of the search string you're supposed to take that as meaning they actually want you to filter the results down to things that include those two words in that sequence. That deliberate mark-up of the "must include exact phrase" type is meant to be a hint that that's an exact phrase that the search results must include.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:33 am UTC

House flipping shows are kind of the inverse of what I was talking about earlier, it's easy to sort of accept it, but if you examine it, each step along the way is an affront to reason and decency. The whole concept of "flipping" a house is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the chance of earning tens of thousands of dollars. It feels ridiculous just writing out those numbers. That's not even touching on the cost of producing and distributing a television program, how ever that works.

There's meme's going around, along the lines of "would you do -moderately inconvenient thing- for A Million Dollars?" and there's an understandable reflex to mock them for grossly undervaluing that sum of money, but it's such an increasingly absurd thing to try and imagine large sums of money.

... they should do a reverse flipping show. scout out young couples who impulsively invested in a property and failed miserably at flipping it, take the house away from them and give it to a family in need, and I don't know, maybe the couple gets help with their debt or something. People actually learn something about what not to do, instead of just a bunch of unrealistic aspirations and flagrant survivorship bias.

I don't know what's up with google
but I do know, that in so many places and so many ways I hate the sense of subterfuge and manipulation in the algorithms and their applications. Much more so on the social media, but search engines to. They can't just explain what factors are at work, or let you choose what you see or in what order, they have to try and Maximize Engagement and it's a nightmare.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:12 pm UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:House flipping shows are kind of the inverse of what I was talking about earlier, it's easy to sort of accept it, but if you examine it, each step along the way is an affront to reason and decency. The whole concept of "flipping" a house is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on the chance of earning tens of thousands of dollars. It feels ridiculous just writing out those numbers. That's not even touching on the cost of producing and distributing a television program, how ever that works.

Isn't that a lot of businesses, though? They spend several hundreds of thousands of dollars on employees and equipment maintenance in order to make a profit of tens of thousands of dollars.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Sableagle » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:43 pm UTC

The exception would be lobbying, in which you spent a few hundred pounds on taking an MP to an expensive restaurant for lunch and get a multi-billion-pound contract in return. That may "only" translate to tens of millions in profit, but it's a heck of a return on lunch.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby ucim » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:The exception would be lobbying, in which you spent a few hundred pounds on taking an MP to an expensive restaurant for lunch and get a multi-billion-pound contract in return
It's not the lunch, it's what you promise during that lunch. Otherwise you and I would be doing it. :)

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:56 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Isn't that a lot of businesses, though? They spend several hundreds of thousands of dollars on employees and equipment maintenance in order to make a profit of tens of thousands of dollars.
I mean, yeah capitalism as a whole is a dizzying nightmare,
but also,
I do't think most businesses are Literally 2 people with A Vision, out just to enrich themselves. And, if some dumbass has -Enough Money to buy Shelter and Security for like 3 people for a year- to play around with, and tosses it into a restaurant or a business, then succeeding brings jobs and services to the community. The best case outcome for a house flipping, is one family gets a unit of housing, and property values for the neighborhood go up.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:37 am UTC

Property values going up is a bad thing, not a good thing.

Generally, stuff becoming more expensive is bad, not good.

Also, the flipper did not facilitate that family getting their unit of housing, he merely jumped in between them and the seller to his profit and the family's loss.

So your "best" case scenario is, one family pays more than they otherwise would have for housing, and so does everyone else in that neighborhood.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:32 am UTC

The idea of house flipping is that you buy a house that should be $200k for $150k because it needs a lot of work, you do $25k worth of work, and sell it for $200-220k

The practice seems to be buying the 200k house for 190k, doing 50k of work, and selling it for $275k. Which is a problem.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby ucim » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:06 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Property values going up is a bad thing, not a good thing.
Depends whether you are an owner/seller or a buyer/renter. It's not a good thing or a bad thing in and of itself. One could similarly argue that salary going up is a bad thing because it raises costs (and retail prices), and that stock prices going up is bad because it makes short sellers lose money.

Now you could argue that people shouldn't own houses, or shouldn't hire people, but that's not the way a trade economy works.

SecondTalon wrote:The idea of house flipping is that you buy a house that should be $200k for $150k because it needs a lot of work, you do $25k worth of work, and sell it for $200-220k

The practice seems to be buying the 200k house for 190k, doing 50k of work, and selling it for $275k. Which is a problem.
Why? In both cases the flipper is taking on a risk, putting in work, and making money from his risk and labor. That's what's supposed to happen. And the work involved isn't just fixing the kitchen, replacing the windows, or whatever. Importantly, it is also locating the property, figuring out the market conditions, figuring out what kind of work is best in this case, and a lot of stuff that some people won't consider "work" because they don't sweat while they're doing it, but nonetheless does require time, effort, and education.

And, there is the risk every step of the way that they are wrong, and will pay for it out of their own pockets. This then goes into the education for the next house. If there is one.

What do you propose should happen when a house is on the market for $200k and isn't selling because {reasons} but the owner really needs out. If Susan is willing to pay $170k, and the owner is willing to take it, what do you think should happen? Susan sees that the house could be worth $250k if she does {whatever}. Even if the owner sees that too, the owner can't do {whatever} but Susan can. Why shouldn't Susan give it a go?

Now Susan has a (now better) house she now thinks its worth $250k. What should happen when a buyer offers that amount to her?

Yanno, when I walk into a store to buy a pair of pants that cost $20, that pair of pants cost the store $10, it cost the distributor $6, and was probably made for $2. Am I being ripped off?

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby cephalopod9 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:05 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Property values going up is a bad thing, not a good thing.
Yes, I was using "best case" to mean most success for the person doing the flip. If a person opening a restaurant gets everything they want, the neighborhood gets a good restaurant, if a person flipping a house gets everything they want, the neighborhood gets less livable.

I just remembered, my parents sold our, completely fine and livable, family home, about 3 years ago. Later, my mom found the listing and whoever bought it put sliding barn doors on the master bathroom, and replaced our granite counter tops with what looks to me like worse granite counter tops.
I didn't feel particularly attached to that building, but it's weird to look at.
ucim wrote:Yanno, when I walk into a store to buy a pair of pants that cost $20, that pair of pants cost the store $10, it cost the distributor $6, and was probably made for $2. Am I being ripped off?
Jose

buying pants from a store you're, directly and indirectly, paying for the materials, the labor that made those materials into pants, the cost to ship those pants to that store location, and the cost of maintaining and staffing the store. So it's a lot more likely the factory workers and the minimum wage sales associate are being ripped off. Oh, and the truck drivers that are given unreasonable schedules aren't getting a great deal.
If we fairly compensated all those people, pants would cost a lot more, but more people could afford to buy those pants, And we could go back to making them out of Actual Denim instead of weak, fall-apart nylon blends

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:35 am UTC

fucker pretending to be a cop stole $2200 from me

real cops say there's probably nothing that can be done

may rant more later, too busy suppressing the urge to murder now
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:09 pm UTC

kill them

kill everyone

kill everyone in the fucking world

i dont even fucking care who it is

someone is going to die

someone will die

doesn't fucking matter who anymore

die you filthy motherfucker
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby suffer-cait » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:24 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The idea of house flipping is that you buy a house that should be $200k for $150k because it needs a lot of work, you do $25k worth of work, and sell it for $200-220k

The practice seems to be buying the 200k house for 190k, doing 50k of work, and selling it for $275k. Which is a problem.

in my neighborhood it seems to be buy for 450k, spend 5k fixing it, try to sell for 550k.

I assume they're all betting on people who want to remodel their own home to taste, but really, some of these places are terribly done. like, they're making the house look worse than if it were stripped bare.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby ucim » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:44 am UTC

suffer-cait wrote: in my neighborhood it seems to be buy for 450k, spend 5k fixing it, try to sell for 550k.
There is a difference between "sell" and "try to sell". Comparing "buy" with "try to sell" introduces an important asymmetry.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby sardia » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:31 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
suffer-cait wrote: in my neighborhood it seems to be buy for 450k, spend 5k fixing it, try to sell for 550k.
There is a difference between "sell" and "try to sell". Comparing "buy" with "try to sell" introduces an important asymmetry.

Jose

It's a lot easier to downplay price gouging/flipping when there's more supply then demand. Nobody ever asks why there's limited supply in the first place. It's easy to say the flipper took a risk, but that's not entirely true since the flipper rigged the market. For example, there a low chance development that rapidly increases housing supply in the area because the home owners erected barriers to multi family housing.
Instead, everyone builds single family homes because nothing else is legally easy.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby ucim » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:22 pm UTC

Your opinion on multi-family housing is irrelevant to the logical fallacy being committed.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby suffer-cait » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:34 pm UTC

yeah, the houses all sell, because location is desirable, and no one moves in without money. It's not a logical fallacy, it's you making assumptions.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby ucim » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:41 am UTC

suffer-cait wrote:yeah, the houses all sell, because location is desirable, and no one moves in without money. It's not a logical fallacy, it's you making assumptions.
It is most definitely a logical fallacy. If the house actually sells for 550k, then that's a great flip. But then you wouldn't say "try to sell". You'd say "sell".

Comparing "actually buy" with "try to sell" is deliberately disingenuous.

Comparing "actually buy" with "actually sell" is the proper way to do it.

Jose
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby New User » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:07 pm UTC

I took it to mean that suffer-cait was demonstrating how one would buy a house for x-amount, and that action cannot be undone. Then that person would try to sell the house for y-amount, but that might not be attainable. The house might end up being sold for a loss, not a profit. It was actually bought for a certain price, but when trying to sell for a different price, the sale might be a failure. The phrasing used by suffer-cait emphasizes the risk involved.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:20 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
suffer-cait wrote:yeah, the houses all sell, because location is desirable, and no one moves in without money. It's not a logical fallacy, it's you making assumptions.
It is most definitely a logical fallacy. If the house actually sells for 550k, then that's a great flip. But then you wouldn't say "try to sell". You'd say "sell".

Comparing "actually buy" with "try to sell" is deliberately disingenuous.

Comparing "actually buy" with "actually sell" is the proper way to do it.

Jose

You, uh, really doing this shit in the Fleeting Thoughts thread?
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Yakk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:26 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
ucim wrote:
suffer-cait wrote:yeah, the houses all sell, because location is desirable, and no one moves in without money. It's not a logical fallacy, it's you making assumptions.
It is most definitely a logical fallacy. If the house actually sells for 550k, then that's a great flip. But then you wouldn't say "try to sell". You'd say "sell".

Comparing "actually buy" with "try to sell" is deliberately disingenuous.

Comparing "actually buy" with "actually sell" is the proper way to do it.

Jose
You, uh, really doing this shit in the Fleeting Thoughts thread?

This isn't the Fleeting Thoughts thread.

This is the thread with the MF barnacles on the MF boat.

You are thinking about Thoughts for Ships. Not Barnacles for Ships.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:31 pm UTC

Shit, this is the rant threat

That makes it worse.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Ranbot » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:36 pm UTC

I recently returned from a fantastic 2-week vacation in Germany. Amazing history, beautiful cities and countryside, friendly people... everything was great, except trying to sleep on German pillows. Who thinks an approximately 3 foot long by 3 foot wide by 3 inch thick "pillow" is comfortable?!?!? It's like trying to rest your head on a baby-sized duvet cover. Who needs their upper shoulders supported while they sleep, or wants their feet dangling off the end of the bed? Maybe I am narrow-minded but I never considered the possibility that a majority of a population would want to rest their head all night on pillow that is not approximately head-sized. Now, you can push the stuffing into a corner or fold the pillow over resemble "standard" pillow dimensions, but the stuffing will move/unfold the first time you move in your sleep. Most of the night you will feel like a horizontal boxer training on your pillow as a punching bag...jab, uppercut, move, jab, wait, move, jab, jab...all night long (it feels that way at least). For a country renowned for their engineering prowess they definitely slacked-off designing their pillows (a prime target for out-sourcing!). Maybe Germans are able to dedicate more time to refine their roads, expand train systems, and stream-line factories because they sleep less than the rest of world on those god-awful pillows!

Spoiler:
While in Germany I was keeping a mental list of differences in common objects/activities between the US and Germany and noting which seemed better or more practical. It was a pretty even score. I'm not trying dump on Germany here as there are many things I saw/experienced that I would import to the US if I could, it's just the pillows really stood out to to me and was something I had to deal with every night of the trip.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby poxic » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:38 pm UTC

Toilets with a little shelf in them. Do they still have those? They were ... there, when I was in southern Germany in ~1990.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:45 pm UTC

I wonder if perhaps German pillows are meant to be folded to the user's desired thickness, rather than laid flat?
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Angua » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:03 pm UTC

poxic wrote:Toilets with a little shelf in them. Do they still have those? They were ... there, when I was in southern Germany in ~1990.

yes.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Sableagle » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:18 pm UTC

Ranbot wrote:For a country renowned for their engineering prowess they definitely slacked-off designing their pillows (a prime target for out-sourcing!). Maybe Germans are able to dedicate more time to refine their roads, expand train systems, and stream-line factories because they sleep less than the rest of world on those god-awful pillows!
Well, ships and tanks and bridges and cranes and that fantastic single-pass autobahn-laying machine are all Metalsmith, and pillows are Tailor, so maybe they all took the Armourer vocation and there aren't enough Woodsmen and Explorers around to supply all the leather they need to level up Tailoring.

That doesn't explain Lederhosen, though. They're getting leathers from somewhere. Maybe Austrians take Explorer a lot. That'd mean they'd have a lot of ore and ingots to export, to ... whoever took Historian. Which nation does all the scholarly stuff?
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Ranbot » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:33 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I wonder if perhaps German pillows are meant to be folded to the user's desired thickness, rather than laid flat?

You can fold them [and I tried every night] but they are thick enough and have so little support that they still unfold very easily. I was exaggerating some with the baby duvet cover.... But this is less of an exaggeration: It's like a very loosely stuffed oversized square pillow that is incapable of holding the stuffing in a head-supporting manner. The stuffing smooshes to the sides or the pillow unfolds with the weight of your head and/or minor movements when sleeping. The best pillow "solution" was to use a small throw pillow (if my room had one) and put the bed pillow over it.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Ranbot » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:54 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Well, ships and tanks and bridges and cranes and that fantastic single-pass autobahn-laying machine are all Metalsmith, and pillows are Tailor, so maybe they all took the Armourer vocation and there aren't enough Woodsmen and Explorers around to supply all the leather they need to level up Tailoring. ....That'd mean they'd have a lot of ore and ingots to export...

I did tour a silver, copper, and lead mine that operated continuously for over 1,000 years, so yeah Germans had a lot of ore and ingots and probably focused on Metalsmith and Armourer skills over Tailoring. :P

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:50 am UTC

ok, Okay
I don't know if this is relatable, or a very specific kind of I"m Burnt out on living in a Red State.

look at this fuckin' thing
look at
this fuckin
thing
look at this fuckin' thing wrote: look at it (it's a shirt)



Spoiler:
s-l300.jpg
s-l300.jpg (11.43 KiB) Viewed 1143 times

I saw this in person! on a person!!
it's like 5 of the worst things at once. hhhhghhkhghhghhhhkghhh.

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Flumble » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:48 pm UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:it's like 5 of the worst things at once. hhhhghhkhghhghhhhkghhh.

- top text+bottom text
- US flags
- women
- blond hair

what's 5? the backlighting?

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Sableagle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:10 pm UTC

Mixed all-caps and lower-case?
Short-barreled revolvers?
Showing the same flag at two different incorrect angles in one image?
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:17 pm UTC

A mixture of an anti-government symbol and Goverment symbol?
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

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Sableagle
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Sableagle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:32 pm UTC

Light print on a dark shirt?
That's all plasticky and it'll get sticky if you wash or dry it too hot, then stick to itself and get utterly wrecked when you straighten the shirt out to wear it again.
Just
WWoaBS.png
in general?
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:47 pm UTC

Yeah the Guy Fawkes mask with the US flag printed on it is the weirdest thing about that to me.

Though it being a woman in the picture is also weirdly incongruous as I'd mostly expect men to be... that kind of person.
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby poxic » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:52 pm UTC

This strikes me as having been made as a joke, notwithstanding that those who would find it funniest would also kinda agree with it.
All empires fall.
Don't look back.
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cephalopod9
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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:55 pm UTC

poxic wrote:This strikes me as having been made as a joke

to quote Plankton "in a cosmic sense" , but no. I have no doubt this was made for and worn by someone who absolutely means it.

I see so many bad shirts all the time constantly
and dudes with guns. i don't care how you feel, or how your gun feels, i hate it.

Pfhorrest wrote: weirdly incongruous
that's The New* Fascism! it's lacquered in irony and wrapped up in the dumbest shit imaginable. Everyone can waste time talking about how dumb it is and wondering if some dumbass reeeeallly means it, instead of confronting the ways the shittiest people ever are using it as encouragement for their most toxic ideas.

I don't want to break down all the things that are the worst, it's so much more than 5 things, i don't know why i stopped there, it's like lead paint Fordite. So many layers, and they are all poison.

*it's not new, it's the same fucking thing it's always been

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby somitomi » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:45 am UTC

We have an old car we keep around mostly for sentimental reasons. It being an old car used by my grandmother for a long while, it had accumulated a whole load of small faults people don't tend to fix. A loose wire in the mess made by generations of sub-par electricians, dried grease in various mechanisms and such. So I've been sorting these faults out one at a time for fun and because I think repairing the radio or the ventillation can make the difference between "an utter piece of junk" and "neat retro car".
One of these faults was a crack across the right rearview mirror, which made the image ever-so-slightly difficult to see.I looked online for replacements without much luck. Partly because the websites of car part suppliers are not always logical and partly because there aren't that many parts available for a 30-year-old car. Never mind, let's go to a junkyard then and get the mirror sheet of an old car. They only sold the entire mirror as a unit, but it wasn't too expensive so I bought it. It didn't mach the colour of my car though, so I wanted to move the intact mirror into my blue mirror housing. Disassembled the blue mirror without a hitch, but then while trying to remove intact glass from the black housing, I cracked it into a million pieces.
FFFfuck.
It's not the sunk cost that bothers me, it's that now I have two fully functional mirror units except the glass is broken in both. And I'll have to:
  1. assemble the broken mirror and put it back on car
  2. find a replacement mirror sheet
  3. remove and disassemble mirror again sometime later
  4. assemble mirrror again and put it back on the car
Way too much of doing the same thing back and forth, but I doubt others would apreciate if I just taped over the hole in the door until I find a non-cracked mirror again.
—◯-◯

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Re: Blistering blue barnacles

Postby Ranbot » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:23 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:...Way too much of doing the same thing back and forth...

That summarizes every time I try to do some DIY plumbing on my house. What I expect to be a 1-2 hour job takes an entire afternoon with 2 to 3 trips to the hardware store. :x


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