Doctor Whom

Rot your brains, then rot our boards

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Clix
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:42 pm UTC
Location: 717841.03 834745.456

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Clix » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:37 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Well, it's imminent. Sunday 7th. Though I may well not get to see the season premiere (slipping into leftpondian, there) until a few days later due to various things, and I've no idea how BBC Worldwide is scheduling on foreign outlets.



My understanding that it will be broadcasts in all outlets at the same time as the UK premier. In my case BBCAmerica will show it at 1345 Eastern, with repeats through out the day/evening. My personal plan is to record it and then watch it so I can zap the commercials.
People need panic...panic in regular draghts. I read about the governments of the world, and I panic daily. It's a heart pumping workout that keeps my cheeks rosy and my vision crystal clear.
Thorax:Pigborn (Brooke McEldowney)

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:59 pm UTC

Well, to my surprise I saw it 'live'.

Still composing my opinion, but I'll first leave this here.

(May be a spoiler, in a sidelong way, so really only for those who have seen it. But memorably identifiable as seen from the motorway by millions.)

User avatar
Flumble
Yes Man
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:13 pm UTC

I nearly saw it live; it never stops amazing me how quickly a torrent is (highly) available after the broadcast.

It had a bit much going on, or, rather, it had much going on during several parts of the episode and didn't have clear climaxes (climaces? climates?), but more like smooth hills with a gradual increase and decrease of tension.
I, err, need another 20 episodes to compose an opinion about this doctor. And I hope only 1 or 2 of 3 companions remain by the end of the second episode. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship was a mess. Well, that had a lot more than "just" three companions, but still.

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:52 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:And I hope only 1 or 2 of 3 companions remain by the end of the second episode.
All three are companions for the whole season. Sorry. (It's not the first time we've had three - the original line-up had three companions, Fifth Doctor started out with three, etc.)
any pronouns
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
----
NiteSciFi, sci-fi forum that needs more members

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:30 pm UTC

I'm sure people with actual objections to it have said "there's been tickboxes for diversity - skin-colours of white, black, and 'shady'" or similar. The two women in the party are powerful and determined (one man is finding his confidence, the other may have had a lifetime already we do not know but seems to have been, literally, retiring if not shy). But I've not sought out those corners of the internet. Nor asked yet the opinion of the one person I know who definitely inhabits the overlap between Whovian and Bigot.

I'm familiar with the dominant accent-groups well enough, of both Doc and companions. I'm wondering how that assault on the senses goes down with the international audience? (You liked Daphne from Frasier, you say? Ecclestone was closer to that.)


As to the series proceeding, I think they've equipped themselves with building blocks for development. Unfulfilled Jasmin (a second year probationary police-officer must have plenty of interesting skills she's dying to use), new-breath-of-life Graham (like Brian Williams, speaking of Dinosaurs On Spaceships, but with plenty more scope), and a potentially eager Ryan who needs to redevelop his lost confidence. The latter two having lost their main anchor on Earth (not that that mattered, as it turned out!) and the first may not be too upset to have been temporarily forcibly divorced from the job she was perhaps 'married to' (perhaps against her culture, so parents may be distant).

I think a four-hander might well work. Three different aspects of humanity revolving (and negotiating with each other, when they have different viewpoints) as they wobbily revolve around the rather eccentric hub that is Thirteen. With Amy and Rory it was excitement and reluctance, respectively, tangoing around the Doctor, when together, but it seemed more like Amy orbiting like a planet and Rory as her moon. Single companions tend to Dr Watson the Time Lord Sherlock, relentlessly. But imagine the possibilities as different companions get to be the "one who needs it explained to" (though I suspect Ryan may do that more than the others, until he surprises us) and yet another may be the one to do that. Either from native experience or by down-translating the initial Doctor Explanation.


I was hoping to get another view, before giving much more about my impression, but for a starter I'm going to liken this to Eleventh Hour as a post-regen reboot/reaquisition. In a number of obvious ways. With some Deep Breath and a tad of Christmas Invasion obviously. I'm not sure it was the most consistently gripping story progression (slow start, could easily have been a regional drama with no SF elements!) but pieces came together.

User avatar
Flumble
Yes Man
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:45 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Flumble wrote:And I hope only 1 or 2 of 3 companions remain by the end of the second episode.
All three are companions for the whole season. Sorry. (It's not the first time we've had three - the original line-up had three companions, Fifth Doctor started out with three, etc.)

Aww, bollocks, that means less Doctor. Then again, if they have to be contemporary humans (who are as stupid and unfamiliar with anything outside Earth as we are), having multiple companions may be the next best thing. Hadn't considered what Soupspoon describes, that multiple companions can be valuable to each other, whereas one companion is mostly just an asset to the Doctor.

[edit]made the last sentence more legible
Last edited by Flumble on Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:57 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:33 pm UTC

I liked how the fact that the Doctor's a woman now (or rather, that half an hour ago she was a tall white-haired Scotsman) was just played off as but one of the many strange things about this person, at least from the perspective of the new companions and Thirteen herself, and didn't steal focus for the whole episode.

I do kind of wonder about the retconned implications on the Doctor's earlier life that this and some of the build-up to it have. She says she hasn't bought women's clothes in a long time, and in an earlier episode Twelve says something about when he was a little boy, then says something like "at least I think I was a boy at the time". Since every incarnation of the Doctor we've seen on screen has been a man, things like those seem to suggest that there are previous incarnations of the Doctor that we've never seen on screen, and that the First Doctor was not actually the first Doctor.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:50 am UTC

With new companion(s) also across a regeneration-boundary, they don't even know that this crazy person hasn't been a woman. Well, I think she mentions it in the train, IIRC, but there's weirder stuff going on that she lands in the middle of*, and at that point she's not even capable of giving her name. Later on she mentions she's not even human, and by that time nobody has any reason to object.

It might have been different in a different time and a different place (I'm wondering if the TARDIS field will hep, cover for that, as it does weird clothes, etc, except when the dressing-up box is arbitrarily raided** for… reasons) but this is contemporary urban Britain and she's dealing with two men who each know and love a strong, professional (medical!) woman who is also there, and leaps into the gathering storm of the adventure, plus the other strong professional woman who isn't going to question that aspect of this strange new person.


On past lives, canon (I think) has it that the First Doctor is the oldest age reached by the incarnation that is the boy seen in the flashback scene of (I think) young Doctor and Young Master traipsing off to stare into the naked Time Vortex in Sound Of Drums. (Or another time, but definitely referenced by Timothy Dalton arranging to contaminate the latter with the four-beat mindworm that contributes to him going mad like he always did... Timey Wimey!) And the count of Doctors (including the sometimes disavowed War Doctor and that bit where Ten regenerated into himself and dumped the metacrisis into the 'handy' recepticle) sort of matches the "twelve regenerations, thirteen incarnations including the original one" idea at the point when Eleven gets a much desired fresh set (another twelve?) from Time Lord HQ after that long stint on Trenzalore.

Though it's a dubious count, especially as during Eleven's time he gets a lives-saving dump of younger River's erstz regeneration-energy at one point and is "remembered anew back into the post-Pandorica universe" by Amy. Either of those things could mess up the tally as well. But Eleven is sure enough the limit was reached.. (Although Twelve's sort-of-7000 years of re-encountering The Veil in that castle in the sea must not have used anything up?)

I think any "buying women's clothing" might have been during Romana's companionship (as a courtesy for a fellow Time Noble?) or just for any of the earthgirls at some between-adventure lull. The several generations (of locals) of time in holding off the enemies on Trenzalore alone is long enough to have made that and Twelve's entire tenure the period the Doctor has not had a sniff of a ladies' clothing department. That also couldn't be accommodated by the TARDIS's cupboards.

Rose Tyler, at least, was initially directed to find the wardrobe "first left, second right, third on the left, go straight ahead, under the stairs, past the bins, fifth door on the left" or thereabouts, and has been actually seen in other forms before and after that point. Eleven initially reoutfitted himself 'in the wild', like Thirteen, but most of the others seemed to already have this wardrobe stocked sufficient for their tastes and also any passengers (many having been female).

But then we know The Doctor can be a bit of an unreliable narrator about his(/her) past, if we shift the blame entirely from merely the inconsistent/lore-ignoring scriptwriting, so who knows what the real truth is, and even if The Doctor is capable of keeping proper track of such stretched-truths!?!


* Coincidence? Or nascent story-arc, a la Bad Wolf meme or Missy appearing in the background to each tale?
** Often then to find they've actually landed in the wrong time/place/climate, And the companion still tends to get away with it, except where plot demands, while the Doctor tends to get a pass.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:06 am UTC

Yeah, we've accounted for 13 lives, so him having been her previously would be a genuine retcon, rather than just a revelation of a previously unmentioned part of the past. Him having cross-dressed in the past would not be a retcon (or even terribly surprising). But we also know he had a family and someone (or something) stocked the TARDIS wardrobe. I think the bigger surprise is that the Doctor has been clothes shopping in the past, rather than that it included buying women's clothes...

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:12 am UTC

Given that we've had at least one episode revolving entirely around the fact that the TARDIS can just make you anything you want, that's a good point. Why ever shop for anything?

And I should be clear that when I say "retcon" I don't (necessarily) mean changing previously-established history. Revealing previously-unrevealed history fits too. Say for example if it were revealed that "the Doctor" had previously (before the start of the show) used up a set of 13 lives and then gotten another set (just like Eleven-who-was-actually-Thirteen did, when he became "Twelve"), but didn't start using the name "the Doctor" until he got that first set, so in the same sense that the "War Doctor" wasn't "the Doctor", none of that first set of lives were "the Doctor" either, but they were still the same person who has gone by that name... and some of them could have been women.

Given the Doctor's ancient role in the Cartmel Master Plan (unimplemented as it may be), something like that wouldn't be so far-fetched.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Jorpho
Posts: 6205
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 am UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:23 am UTC

We never did hear about The Valeyard again. (Except for that bit before the Doctor jumped into his own timestream. What a silly mess that was.)

Anyway, calling it now:
Spoiler:
By the end of the season, the Doctor will have had to make a Terrible, Terrible Choice and will be responsible for "authorizing" the hunters.

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:22 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:She says she hasn't bought women's clothes in a long time
Soupspoon wrote:I think any "buying women's clothing" might have been during Romana's companionship
I'd just like to note that the last confirmed time was the Eleventh Doctor buying a dress for River Song. I think it was in one of the shorts they made for the DVDs.
any pronouns
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
----
NiteSciFi, sci-fi forum that needs more members

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:40 am UTC

Yeah I'm disappointed that with Eleven's "I'm actually Thirteen!" revelation, the whole setup for the Valeyard was just erased, because the Valeyard should have happened somewhere between TenTwo and "Eleven". I mean, I know, technically the Valeyard is just "somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation", and now that "final" and "thirteenth" are not synonyms, the Valeyard could happen anywhere any time! But then why would he have mentioned twelfth specifically. The whole WarDoctor/TenTwo thing has really screwed up... everything.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:18 am UTC

It's almost as if continuity is just on "occasionally smiling and nodding at in the street" terms with the series…

;)

User avatar
moody7277
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm UTC
Location: Extreme south Texas

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby moody7277 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 am UTC

Ghost Monument

Spoiler:
--First shot I was thinking "looks like the Improbability Drive kicked in"
--Apparently we might have another Danny Pink with Ryan saying "this is what I was trained for" *pew pew*
--The new TARDIS interior is going to take some getting used to. Especially the Stonehenge inner ring.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

User avatar
Flumble
Yes Man
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:15 pm UTC

"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."

...is one of the lines that unfortunately didn't make it into this week's episode set in space San Helios.
Are the Stenza going to be the new big bad? So far they feel amateurish if you compare their introduction with the introduction of the (2006) daleks or the weeping angels. Then again, travel a millennium into the future mid-season and suddenly they're a force to be reckoned with.

re: Ghost Monument
Spoiler:
moody7277 wrote:--Apparently we might have another Danny Pink with Ryan saying "this is what I was trained for" *pew pew*

Hmm, I'd be surprised if Ryan was in the military at some point. He seems more of a Call of Duty player.

It was weird how the doctor gave up so easily near the end of the episode. IIRC she said the tardis was phasing in and out of existence, so you can reasonably expect it to be out of phase for a bit when you arrive. Also there's lots of tech to work with, so she should be able to build a space ship in no time.
And I remember someone saying (while enumerating the hostilities of the planet) the air is toxic. Where did that come from? I'm inclined to say it was rather nourishing, since no one got hungry for a whole day.
Also where did she get the sunglasses? And why aren't they sonicked?

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:36 pm UTC

I recall reading somewhere that this series would be less "arc"y, more like single episodes that just stand on their own more, than the recent trends towards double-or-more interdependent sequences. Which is not to say I disliked Classic Who multi-episode serials in a single scenario with multiple cliff-hangers between, but the NuWho doubles/greater have been sitting in that uncanny valley between true serial (good) and Monster-Of-The-Week (good) and I'm thus hoping that what we're seeing is mostly down at the level of Arc Words. Only time (and relative dimensions) will tell!

Ghost Monument innards…
Spoiler:
The same alien species being mentioned is hopefully not a Missing Planets (Adipose nursery world, etc) level of Arc. But I doubt it's the last we'll hear of that.

These ostensibly-human two racers (when they saw the first tent, I was convinced it was another Satellite 5/Game Station game-show thing, and wasn't too far wrong) not having heard of humans/Earth put them (probably) well into the future°, so the falling/melting Tim Shaw could easily have provoked a cultural grudge-match of epic proportions in the time since his contemporary visit to Sheffield. - Assuming that these weren't inexplicable parallelly-developed humanoids to yet be so close to be without the need for breaking out the latex and make-up.

We know Tim came from "5000 galaxies away", or thereabouts, so we're not entirely sure where(/when) the failed attempt to zero in on the TARDIS reached out to with the same equipment and some slightly confused Timelord Knowhow. Or at least Doctor knowhow, having claimed and proven proficiency in transporter technology, e.g. with the Dalek Asylum.

Another likely arc-cue is the talking bandages/stranglers¹. I think it is their taunting of the Doctor that knocked her resolve to survive to the point where it became fragile at the end. Some of what they said to her might relate to the as-yet unresolved issue of Gallifrey (though I hope not) and links to her ep1 acknowledgement that she 'lost' all her family a long time ago, perhaps.

Ryan: No good balancing on a bike, does not like ladders, has good FPS experience (even if it doesn't help much) and might be the non-Doctor repository of random useful knowledge.

Yasmin: Does have a loving family (father, certainly, and her sister just would like her room, probably wouldn't kill her for it) so has more than just the tedious 'puppy-walking' phase of police-work to go back to (speaking of which, she's trusted to be the sole driver/oparator of a police patrol car. Maybe not qualified for full lone pursuits, but capable of more than the old-fashioned panda-cars…). So that revises my opinion.

Graham: Probably enjoying this the most? No job, back home, lost his love, has found more to life than he previously believed possible, even after the chemo got him into remission. If the medpod gave him the Translator Implant (to see further use even after the TARDIS can work its magic again?) and dealt with his exposure to vacuum (quicker than Ryan, though Ryan had maybe still held his breath, and that's the wrong thing to do!) then could it have brought him even from the threat of its return? Or yet a plotpoint.

TARDIS: Not sure yet about the internal design. The external design is greener, amongst other things. Is it perhaps anything to do with (in-universe) homage to the actual Sheffield police-box that was actually name-checked? Noting that while Classic Who TARDII tended to have internal doors divorced in design from the external doors (one always assumed an 'airlock' between the console room and the door that matched with the current/eternal external result of the chameleon circuit), and then NuWho had for a long while the inside of the door or inside of the main face with the door, now it's a full 3-sided-and-roof portico/porch 'add-on' to the inside. Interesting.

° Inconsistent with what we know about the End Of Time knowledge, among other less-far-future settings, unless it's in a relatively Dark Aged future/region where the ultimate origins of such obvious humaniforms is lost to most people, in an Asimovian Foundation Era sort of way.

¹ First impressions of them is that they went after Mr Grumpy Paranoid Misanthropic Contestant, whateverhisnamewas, because of his SniperBot² injuries. A mix between the Black Spot of the pirate ship caper and the bandages of the Mummy On The Orient Express. I thought they might be targeting the injured, to help but misguidedly so. That they were 'sentient', viciously and obviously designed to taunt (except when their target was asleep and there was just one of them there?) didn't come out until later.

² How rubbish were they? If they were produced by the scientists who developed flesh-eating water and all the other horrors (I presume the poisoned air was just "background-level not particularly healthy, like a smog only without the particulates" dangerous, at least for the (short³) day that they were to suffer it) then they must have been a very basic attempt from the beginning of their development and/or hamstrung. Compare with the Raston Warrior Robot from the classic era! And the only one who got hit was the one who should have been best in a shooting-match. Call Of Duty excepted.

³ Potential plot point missed. The deadline was to reach the goal before the next day, I think, and then later we find the suns were setting quicker than they should, so that might have introduced yet more urgency to the process. SFAIK, the night coming quicker was the only issue they had.
But I need to see the episode again, to be more thorough, and I've only just seen it the first time. And I'm sure there's something else I meant to mention but have forgotten about.

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4888
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:38 pm UTC

I rather like the new TARDIS interior.

I do find it a bit odd that Sexy just decided to change her own desktop instead of waiting for the Doctor to ask for the change, though.

(I almost wrote "instead of waiting for daddymommy to ask" and didn't because that seemed too creepy in connection with Sexy, but I did like that joke and the subtle "still not completely used to being a woman" thing. I also liked that I could really see Capaldi saying "come to daddy" in Whitaker's performance; it really does feel like the same character with a new face. I thought Tenant/Smith had that too, but not Eccleston/Tenant or Smith/Capaldi, both of which were kind of disappointing transitions for that reason, IMO).
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:57 pm UTC

She may have had a lot of time alone, and nothing much else to do with herself. Literally. Even at a few seconds of 'real time', then jumping ahead "a thousand rotations" for the next few ticks of time. The phenomenon it provoked had been noted (if not originally discovered) by "the ancients" so even without invoking other Timey Wimeyness (like a Narniaesque accelerated inner-timeline) it still adds up. More so if time between appearances was still in synch, just out of phase, as we've seen invoked (End Of Time).

Could even be a visible sign of the onset of isolation-provoked senility. If that's ever needed for the future plotlines. Being adrift from the person she stole away and was clearly infatuated over.

User avatar
pkcommando
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:22 pm UTC
Location: Allston, MA

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby pkcommando » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I do find it a bit odd that Sexy just decided to change her own desktop instead of waiting for the Doctor to ask for the change, though.

It was the same as the 10-11 switch, too, though. 11 was locked out of the TARDIS while it was "rebuilding" (11's words) during Eleventh Hour and he had to be surprised what the TARDIS had cooked up for him. Notable that the rebuild was for the same reason - the predecessor damaging the TARDIS during a regeneration that had been significantly delayed. Probably either a default of the rebuilding process, or a result of the Doctor forgetting/not knowing to flip a certain switch.

Edit: Posted mid-thought, needed to finish that.
"The Universe is for raptors now!" say Raptors, as they take over all of Universe.


Return to “Movies and TV Shows”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests