Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:16 pm UTC

You blame Iran for the US being unable to win in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

Heh.

Why was the US in both Afghanistan and Iraq? Responding to terrorist attacks by Iraqis on US soil?

trpmb6 wrote:Just admit, this can be a great moment in history we're all observing.


AN IRANIAN MOMENT IN HISTORY

April 2016

At the regional and international level, the rise of Islamic State (ISIS) has shown the brutal face
of Sunni radical extremism to the world. The threat from ISIS has interestingly thrown Iran, US
and Israel on the same side of the fence. The unabated rise of ISIS is probably one of the major
threats which Iran faces today. On the domestic front, the 2009 demonstrations and growing
economic strain have demanded immediate correctional steps. The election of President Rouhani
was a manifestation of people’s desire to see a quick end to Iran’s international isolation.


Iran's Nuclear Deal: A great achievement, but hard work ahead

07/16/15

The announcement of the nuclear deal between Iran and six world powers is a rare moment in history that gives us hope and provides a basis for optimism. Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif has declared at a joint press conference with the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, there has been a win-win agreement that will benefit everyone. In short, they have made history. Ms. Mogherini said: “It is a decision that can open the way to a new chapter in international relations. I think this is a sign of hope for the entire world.” The Iranian foreign minister echoed those sentiments and described the deal as “a historic moment”.


Within the theory, any such truculence could be inflated into "The Bush Doctrine", or "The New American Unilateralism". The theory was this: the collapse of the Soviet Union had opened the door to the inevitability of American pre-eminence, a mantle of beneficent power that all nations except rogue nations – whatever they might say on the subject – were yearning for America to assume.

A few weeks later in the Post, the columnist Michael Kelly was sketching an even rosier outcome, based on his eccentric reading of the generation coming of age in the Middle East as a population poised by history to see the US not as its enemy but as its "natural liberator". "It is right to think that we are living in a hinge moment in history," he wrote, and then argued against those who believe that the moment is not necessarily America's to control. "But it is wrong to think that the large forces of this moment act on the hinge to shut the door against American interests." The contrary might be true, he wrote, if only the United States took the next step, which was "to destroy the regime of Saddam Hussein and liberate the people of Iraq." This would be, he said, when history really began to turn on its hinge.


Thirteen years after the invasion, Iraq is a destroyed and divided country. Isis controls major regions, sectarian division continues to tear the country apart, religious minorities have been persecuted and killed, and women have seen deterioration in all of their rights and freedoms. The recent bombing of the most famed multi-sectarian neighbourhood in Baghdad that killed 250 civilians is symbolic of the state of Iraq today.

The Chilcot report is an admirable effort to reflect on history and learn its lessons. I wish and pray that other allied forces, particularly the US, follow in the UK’s footsteps. This is a crucial moment in history as Iraq and surrounding countries face further instability and insecurity. The world must listen to the Chilcot report’s lessons before any further military intervention in the region.


Yeah, Trump could bring about a moment in history. Oh, a "great" moment in history? Well, I'm sure he'd call it great. He loves that word.

trpmb6 wrote:What I'm saying is that he has been successful at achieving what he wants to do, using the methods he has.
Bullying, using bullying?

trpmb6 wrote:I do find it kind of.. i don't know, bombastic of us, as a nation that we continue to tell other nations they can't have nuke's, while we have them. If you look at it from Iran and NK's perspective it's kind of not fair really.
Oh, you noticed that.

I think we in "the west" have been reading and watching Disney versions of too many fairy tales in which being the big, strong guy and winning the fight means you were the good guy all along. That whole Manifest Destiny thing gives me the creeps.

To truly appreciate the weight of this victory, it is worth illustrating a key concept in the history of the US’s dealings with its indigenous peoples. For hundreds of years now, it has repeatedly and almost without exception sacrificed their rights in the name of progress. This is underpinned by an especially pernicious ideology: “manifest destiny”.

While the origins of the phrase are disputed, the idea behind manifest destiny is relatively simple: white Americans have the God-given right and duty to spread their values and way of life across the continent and beyond. As historian Reginald Horsman noted, this phrase was merely the articulation of an ideology that had long driven the actions of European colonisers.

In the first year of his presidency, Andrew Jackson embedded this ideology into US government policy in the form of the Indian Removal Act (1830), officially endorsing the view that indigenous peoples and civilisation were incompatible.

With few exceptions, throughout the 19th and much of the 20th century the US government treated indigenous peoples as obstacles to progress. This agenda was advanced by assorted policies, from the Dawes Act (1887), which almost halved indigenous landholdings, to the introduction of boarding schools that punished indigenous children for speaking their language, to the termination policies of the 1950s and 1960s, which sought to destroy tribal sovereignty and assimilate indigenous people into “mainstream” US culture.


Yep. Creepy. Almost makes someone who saw all the fuss about Iraq being behind 9/11 back in 2002 wonder why we're suddenly hearing all this fuss about iran being behind 9/11. Heck, if I knew about Agent Orange and My Lai and Fallujah I might even go so far as to say I don't trust the US government and I think using "free" to mean "under US control" is downright dishonest, so it's a good job I never found out about any of them, isn't it? Probably also a good job I didn't find out about Agent Orange while eating, or US foreign policy might owe me a new keyboard and carpet, and I doubt they'd pay. Even the US Navy people exposed to the stuff are still trying to get compensation for it, so I'd be a long way back in the queue.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:38 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:
Spoiler:
You blame Iran for the US being unable to win in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

Heh.

Why was the US in both Afghanistan and Iraq? Responding to terrorist attacks by Iraqis on US soil?

trpmb6 wrote:Just admit, this can be a great moment in history we're all observing.


AN IRANIAN MOMENT IN HISTORY

April 2016

At the regional and international level, the rise of Islamic State (ISIS) has shown the brutal face
of Sunni radical extremism to the world. The threat from ISIS has interestingly thrown Iran, US
and Israel on the same side of the fence. The unabated rise of ISIS is probably one of the major
threats which Iran faces today. On the domestic front, the 2009 demonstrations and growing
economic strain have demanded immediate correctional steps. The election of President Rouhani
was a manifestation of people’s desire to see a quick end to Iran’s international isolation.


Iran's Nuclear Deal: A great achievement, but hard work ahead

07/16/15

The announcement of the nuclear deal between Iran and six world powers is a rare moment in history that gives us hope and provides a basis for optimism. Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif has declared at a joint press conference with the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, there has been a win-win agreement that will benefit everyone. In short, they have made history. Ms. Mogherini said: “It is a decision that can open the way to a new chapter in international relations. I think this is a sign of hope for the entire world.” The Iranian foreign minister echoed those sentiments and described the deal as “a historic moment”.


Within the theory, any such truculence could be inflated into "The Bush Doctrine", or "The New American Unilateralism". The theory was this: the collapse of the Soviet Union had opened the door to the inevitability of American pre-eminence, a mantle of beneficent power that all nations except rogue nations – whatever they might say on the subject – were yearning for America to assume.

A few weeks later in the Post, the columnist Michael Kelly was sketching an even rosier outcome, based on his eccentric reading of the generation coming of age in the Middle East as a population poised by history to see the US not as its enemy but as its "natural liberator". "It is right to think that we are living in a hinge moment in history," he wrote, and then argued against those who believe that the moment is not necessarily America's to control. "But it is wrong to think that the large forces of this moment act on the hinge to shut the door against American interests." The contrary might be true, he wrote, if only the United States took the next step, which was "to destroy the regime of Saddam Hussein and liberate the people of Iraq." This would be, he said, when history really began to turn on its hinge.


Thirteen years after the invasion, Iraq is a destroyed and divided country. Isis controls major regions, sectarian division continues to tear the country apart, religious minorities have been persecuted and killed, and women have seen deterioration in all of their rights and freedoms. The recent bombing of the most famed multi-sectarian neighbourhood in Baghdad that killed 250 civilians is symbolic of the state of Iraq today.

The Chilcot report is an admirable effort to reflect on history and learn its lessons. I wish and pray that other allied forces, particularly the US, follow in the UK’s footsteps. This is a crucial moment in history as Iraq and surrounding countries face further instability and insecurity. The world must listen to the Chilcot report’s lessons before any further military intervention in the region.


Yeah, Trump could bring about a moment in history. Oh, a "great" moment in history? Well, I'm sure he'd call it great. He loves that word.

trpmb6 wrote:What I'm saying is that he has been successful at achieving what he wants to do, using the methods he has.
Bullying, using bullying?

trpmb6 wrote:I do find it kind of.. i don't know, bombastic of us, as a nation that we continue to tell other nations they can't have nuke's, while we have them. If you look at it from Iran and NK's perspective it's kind of not fair really.
Oh, you noticed that.

I think we in "the west" have been reading and watching Disney versions of too many fairy tales in which being the big, strong guy and winning the fight means you were the good guy all along. That whole Manifest Destiny thing gives me the creeps.

To truly appreciate the weight of this victory, it is worth illustrating a key concept in the history of the US’s dealings with its indigenous peoples. For hundreds of years now, it has repeatedly and almost without exception sacrificed their rights in the name of progress. This is underpinned by an especially pernicious ideology: “manifest destiny”.

While the origins of the phrase are disputed, the idea behind manifest destiny is relatively simple: white Americans have the God-given right and duty to spread their values and way of life across the continent and beyond. As historian Reginald Horsman noted, this phrase was merely the articulation of an ideology that had long driven the actions of European colonisers.

In the first year of his presidency, Andrew Jackson embedded this ideology into US government policy in the form of the Indian Removal Act (1830), officially endorsing the view that indigenous peoples and civilisation were incompatible.

With few exceptions, throughout the 19th and much of the 20th century the US government treated indigenous peoples as obstacles to progress. This agenda was advanced by assorted policies, from the Dawes Act (1887), which almost halved indigenous landholdings, to the introduction of boarding schools that punished indigenous children for speaking their language, to the termination policies of the 1950s and 1960s, which sought to destroy tribal sovereignty and assimilate indigenous people into “mainstream” US culture.


Yep. Creepy. Almost makes someone who saw all the fuss about Iraq being behind 9/11 back in 2002 wonder why we're suddenly hearing all this fuss about iran being behind 9/11. Heck, if I knew about Agent Orange and My Lai and Fallujah I might even go so far as to say I don't trust the US government and I think using "free" to mean "under US control" is downright dishonest, so it's a good job I never found out about any of them, isn't it? Probably also a good job I didn't find out about Agent Orange while eating, or US foreign policy might owe me a new keyboard and carpet, and I doubt they'd pay. Even the US Navy people exposed to the stuff are still trying to get compensation for it, so I'd be a long way back in the queue.


It really makes you wonder how we would treat an alien race doesn't it? Or rather, it's particularly indicative of how we would handle a first contact situation. But that's a conversation for a different forum.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:17 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Why was the US in both Afghanistan and Iraq? Responding to terrorist attacks by Iraqis on US soil?


From wikipedia
Stated motives of the 9/11 attacks

Look at the 3rd and fourth section. "Sanctions imposed against Iraq", and "Presence of US military in SA". By taking out Saddam, the US removes the need for both sanctions against Iraq and the need for US troops in SA, thus delegitimizing Al Qaeda. It... partially worked, in that we got our troops quietly out of SA, but the Iranian support for every nutjob they could find resulted in chaos and ended up strengthening Al Qaeda, which the Iranians are fine with as long as they are aimed at the West. When Al Qaeda is murdering Shia, not so much.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:53 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:You blame Iran for the US being unable to win in both Afghanistan and Iraq.


If memory serves, the optimal rate for occupiers to occupied countries is something like 1:25. In short, it can take a LOT of troops to forcibly pacify a belligerent country. Occupying a decently sized state halfway around the globe is something that has historically caused a lot of resistance, it's not honestly that surprising, with or without Iran.

Granted, hostile powers in the area always make a given scenario worse, but neither is an easy problem regardless.

trpmb6 wrote:It really makes you wonder how we would treat an alien race doesn't it? Or rather, it's particularly indicative of how we would handle a first contact situation. But that's a conversation for a different forum.


I suspect some of the first questions humanity would actually attempt to explore with an alien race would be along the lines of "Can we smash?" and "How's it go with BBQ sauce?"

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:It really makes you wonder how we would treat an alien race doesn't it? Or rather, it's particularly indicative of how we would handle a first contact situation. But that's a conversation for a different forum.


I suspect some of the first questions humanity would actually attempt to explore with an alien race would be along the lines of "Can we smash?" and "How's it go with BBQ sauce?"


That would of course assume we had the capacity to take those liberties with said species. If they were to come say tomorrow with technology that casually gets around the limitations we still struggle to understand in our own scientific understanding odds would be they'd be asking how humans taste in thorv'ak sauce with a side of infra-violet jek-peas.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:10 am UTC

trpmb6 wrote:But I guess that's the privilege we have for being the strongest country with the biggest economy in the world.
Does that position leave us with any obligations to the rest of the world?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:13 am UTC

Yes.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:55 am UTC

Dauric wrote:That would of course assume we had the capacity to take those liberties with said species. If they were to come say tomorrow with technology that casually gets around the limitations we still struggle to understand in our own scientific understanding odds would be they'd be asking how humans taste in thorv'ak sauce with a side of infra-violet jek-peas.


The answer is going to be "our biologies are so dissimilar that each others' meat is toxic". Obviously. Think of all the creatures and plants that we humans can't eat even though we evolved to eat as many different things as possible. This isn't like "dogs trying to digest chocolate" level toxicity, but trying to digest a creature made up of arsenic or molten sulphur or so forth level toxicity.


But yes, if aliens visit Earth, chances are we won't be the ones doing the eating...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:25 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Dauric wrote:That would of course assume we had the capacity to take those liberties with said species. If they were to come say tomorrow with technology that casually gets around the limitations we still struggle to understand in our own scientific understanding odds would be they'd be asking how humans taste in thorv'ak sauce with a side of infra-violet jek-peas.


The answer is going to be "our biologies are so dissimilar that each others' meat is toxic". Obviously. Think of all the creatures and plants that we humans can't eat even though we evolved to eat as many different things as possible. This isn't like "dogs trying to digest chocolate" level toxicity, but trying to digest a creature made up of arsenic or molten sulphur or so forth level toxicity.

Well, but the fleshy bits of other living things aren't toxic just by chance: in many cases they evolved that way to stop us from eating them, in a perpetual arms race in which we retaliated by developing countermeasures allowing us to resist or even digest those chemicals. If humans and aliens turned out to be mutually toxic that would be by chance, but we probably wouldn't provide each other with nutritional value either.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:50 am UTC

We also, presumably, wouldn't be able to cross-breed with them no matter how much fanfic has been written to the contrary.

Having given the matter some thought, though, I reckon given society-wide contact with an alien species able to navigate this far and not hell-bent on exterminating or subjugating us, we'd figure out what they do and what feels good and teach them what we do and what feels good. Some of us are just like that, aren't we?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm UTC

https://youtu.be/aYsaC2CADs0

A video that trump played at his meeting. First reaction was to laugh at the idea, but after watching, thought maybe not such a bad idea after all?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:37 pm UTC

That part about a choice between two paths, and one being rockets and US Navy jets? That's called a threat.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:39 pm UTC

I think it helps when negotiating to present things as very binary. Or at the very least narrow things to very specific outcomes. Your options are: Living in a tropical oasis or Total Annihilation.

By doing so you help define the scope and can manipulate the other side more towards your preferred outcome.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:16 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:https://youtu.be/aYsaC2CADs0

A video that trump played at his meeting. First reaction was to laugh at the idea, but after watching, thought maybe not such a bad idea after all?

I don't know much about Kim Jong-Un's personal life, but I know enough that I can see that video was tailor-made for him. Hope it works!
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:01 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:It really makes you wonder how we would treat an alien race doesn't it? Or rather, it's particularly indicative of how we would handle a first contact situation. But that's a conversation for a different forum.


I suspect some of the first questions humanity would actually attempt to explore with an alien race would be along the lines of "Can we smash?" and "How's it go with BBQ sauce?"


That would of course assume we had the capacity to take those liberties with said species. If they were to come say tomorrow with technology that casually gets around the limitations we still struggle to understand in our own scientific understanding odds would be they'd be asking how humans taste in thorv'ak sauce with a side of infra-violet jek-peas.


Oh, I'm not implying that it would necessarily end well. It probably wouldn't. But hey, humanity has a long history of taking what we want from other species, I figure we wouldn't give it up overnight.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:22 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:https://youtu.be/aYsaC2CADs0

A video that trump played at his meeting. First reaction was to laugh at the idea, but after watching, thought maybe not such a bad idea after all?

I don't know much about Kim Jong-Un's personal life, but I know enough that I can see that video was tailor-made for him. Hope it works!

Like I know Kim Jong-Un loves baseketball and they have basketball in it.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:32 pm UTC

Spoiler for OT

Spoiler:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Dauric wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:It really makes you wonder how we would treat an alien race doesn't it? Or rather, it's particularly indicative of how we would handle a first contact situation. But that's a conversation for a different forum.


I suspect some of the first questions humanity would actually attempt to explore with an alien race would be along the lines of "Can we smash?" and "How's it go with BBQ sauce?"


That would of course assume we had the capacity to take those liberties with said species. If they were to come say tomorrow with technology that casually gets around the limitations we still struggle to understand in our own scientific understanding odds would be they'd be asking how humans taste in thorv'ak sauce with a side of infra-violet jek-peas.


Oh, I'm not implying that it would necessarily end well. It probably wouldn't. But hey, humanity has a long history of taking what we want from other species, I figure we wouldn't give it up overnight.


Again, you're assuming said technologically advanced species -doesnt- have a long history of taking what they want from other species. It's kind of a thing that technologically advanced peoples do almost by definition, and those who achieve greater advancements have an easier time of doing it to others and preventing it being done unto themselves.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm UTC

OT Alien conversation:
Spoiler:
Maybe, maybe not. Honestly have no idea what aliens would be like. If they're sufficiently like human in their motivations, then sure....but who knows? I could also see them being genuinely curious, and THEN humanity fucks it all up. But honestly, it's all spitballing without much in the way of real data.


Anyways, back on topic, it is probably not a coincidence that Trump happened to pick the anniversary of the "tear down this wall" speech to chat with Kim. Regardless if picked by him or an underling, someone's definitely angling for a Reaganesque image there.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:11 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Well, but the fleshy bits of other living things aren't toxic just by chance: in many cases they evolved that way to stop us from eating them, in a perpetual arms race in which we retaliated by developing countermeasures allowing us to resist or even digest those chemicals. If humans and aliens turned out to be mutually toxic that would be by chance, but we probably wouldn't provide each other with nutritional value either.


Here's a list of hypothetical chemical bases for life. Note that most of these are obviously toxic to humans. Silicon based life using molten sulphur as a solvent? Aside from the thing basically being liquid gunpowder and the oxygen in our atmosphere would cause the alien to explode and it being a temperature that would sear human flesh, the alien would be about as palatable as a bowl of rocks (insert Fruity Pebbles joke). Arsenic instead of phosphorous? Pass. Ammonia based solvents instead of water? Aside from the creature tasting like urine, it's poisonous. Hydrogen chloride solvent? Yeah, you are chewing on the xenomorph from the Alien franchise.

Though to bring this topic back in line with Trump, what sort of life-form do you think his hair is?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:23 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Trump happened to pick the anniversary of the "tear down this wall" speech to chat with Kim.
You mean, the "tear down this wall between the US and Mexico" speech? :)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:44 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
orthogon wrote:Well, but the fleshy bits of other living things aren't toxic just by chance: in many cases they evolved that way to stop us from eating them, in a perpetual arms race in which we retaliated by developing countermeasures allowing us to resist or even digest those chemicals. If humans and aliens turned out to be mutually toxic that would be by chance, but we probably wouldn't provide each other with nutritional value either.


Here's a list of hypothetical chemical bases for life. Note that most of these are obviously toxic to humans. Silicon based life using molten sulphur as a solvent? Aside from the thing basically being liquid gunpowder and the oxygen in our atmosphere would cause the alien to explode and it being a temperature that would sear human flesh, the alien would be about as palatable as a bowl of rocks (insert Fruity Pebbles joke). Arsenic instead of phosphorous? Pass. Ammonia based solvents instead of water? Aside from the creature tasting like urine, it's poisonous. Hydrogen chloride solvent? Yeah, you are chewing on the xenomorph from the Alien franchise.

Though to bring this topic back in line with Trump, what sort of life-form do you think his hair is?


Eh, carbon is by far the most likely basis of life. There are others that are theoretically possible, but none offer the possibilities that carbon does, and frankly, carbon is insanely common in the universe compared to any of the others. Silicon is the next most common possible base, but it's maybe fifteen times rarer. Science fiction probably led us wrong here.

That said, carbon-based is still pretty broad. There's a lot of life on earth that's not horribly edible, or is incredibly strange. Someone randomly eating things in an unfamiliar biome would probably run into trouble soon enough. I'd imagine that'd apply to alien life as well.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:09 pm UTC

Back to Trumpster Fire:

Trump Layer Michael Cohen may cooperate with investigators, as attorneys are expected to leave the case.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-lawyer- ... d=55861988

If he flips, I expect a flurry of arrests or other activity involving the case.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:30 pm UTC

OT spoiler
Spoiler:
Tyndmyr wrote:Science fiction probably led us wrong here.


Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis (a slight aside here, it really frustrates me that time and time again I find examples where the writers of SGA regurgitated themes from the original show...) did this a couple times. Here is the silicone example from SGA: http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Sekkari

and the sulfur based lifeform from SG1 http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Gadmeer



Kim Jung Un has spent a surprising amount of time outside of NK. His youth saw him studying abroad quite extensively. I have no doubt that this plays some role in his decisions.

If he flips, I expect a flurry of arrests or other activity involving the case.


based on what evidence? cooperating and "flipping" are on two different ends of the spectrum. Maybe he has something on Trump or someone else. But I'll be surprised if it has anything to do with Russia collusion. So far everything surrounding cohen has been in regards to Stormy Daniels. I don't expect much more than campaign finance law violations at this point.
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sardia
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:35 pm UTC

Did you see the decision behind the At&t anti trust case? That case was seen as a politically motivated attack by Trump on CNN (which would merge in the att time Warner merger). It was a strange decision from a pro business administration to ok Comcast mergers but fight against att. Well, it's only Strange if you're blind to the politics behind the case.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

(On the OT tangent, but probably interesting to xkcders, and yet not worth a whole new topic in Science.)

"Using a solvent system definition of acidity and basicity, nitric acid functions as a base when it is added to liquid HF.[60]" Flourine chemistry is truly wonderful. At a distance!

Though to bring this topic back in line with Trump, what sort of life-form do you think his hair is?

Somewhere in the genus Lepus?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:56 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Somewhere in the genus Lepus?
Funny!
Very Funny!
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:37 pm UTC

Trump's foundation has been sued because it's a sham charity for decades, and Trump knew it.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/61995927 ... foundation
My only question is what took so damn long? He's not very good at covering up crimes. I guess the standard of proof is very high.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:49 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Trump's foundation has been sued because it's a sham charity for decades, and Trump knew it.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/61995927 ... foundation
My only question is what took so damn long? He's not very good at covering up crimes. I guess the standard of proof is very high.

NY barred his foundation from collecting donations when they first brought their accusation; I suppose this is, yeah, the next step after much more investigation.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby iamspen » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:02 am UTC

"How can I improve my qualities as a monster and better myself as a human pile of garbage?" wonders Betsy DeVos just before rescinding 72 documents clarifying how schools should deal with issues related to special needs and disabled students.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/edu ... -students/

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Eowiel » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:14 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Well, but the fleshy bits of other living things aren't toxic just by chance: in many cases they evolved that way to stop us from eating them, in a perpetual arms race in which we retaliated by developing countermeasures allowing us to resist or even digest those chemicals. If humans and aliens turned out to be mutually toxic that would be by chance, but we probably wouldn't provide each other with nutritional value either.


Couldn't it be that the "starting point" was that most potentials foods were toxic, but we evolved to be able to deal with them anyway? That toxicity is more the default state than the exception?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:37 pm UTC

Paul Manafort ordered to jail after witness-tampering charges while on bail.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... story.html
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:42 pm UTC

Couldn't be bothered reading WaPo's terms and conditions. Looked up Betsy DeVos. Foudn this:
U.S. not granting loan relief to defrauded students: inspector general
December 11, 2017

The U.S. Education Department under President Donald Trump and Secretary Betsy DeVos has stopped cancelling the student-loan debt of people defrauded by failed for-profit schools and those borrowers face mounting interest and other burdens, its inspector general said on Monday.

DeVos is seeking to redo the process for cancelling the debts of people who attended Corinthian Colleges, which collapsed in 2015 amid government investigations into its post-graduation rates, and other failed schools.

In the final days of his administration, President Barack Obama approved rules speeding up the debt cancellations. DeVos has delayed implementing those rules, saying they would create significant costs for taxpayers.

According to a report by the inspector general, DeVos also brought the existing cancellation process to a crawl.

Since Trump’s inauguration on Jan. 20, the department has received 25,991 claims for discharging loans. It has denied two requests and approved none, the inspector general, an independent auditor within the agency, found.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Koa » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:58 am UTC

The administration is very decisive when it suspiciously has a vested interest in the financial effects of certain policies. The rest of the time it seems completely inept, a game of telephone where the original player is cheating. "I can't speak for the president" Is all that you can say when the president won't take accountability for the words that comes out of his own mouth.
Last edited by Koa on Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:05 am UTC

Koa wrote:The administration is very decisive when it suspiciously has a vested interest in the financial effects of certain policies. The rest of the time it seems completely inept, a game of telephone where the original player is cheating. "I can't speak for the president" Is all that you can say when even the president won't take accountability for the words that comes out of his mouth.

And everyone around him is so desensitized by his antics they actively shrug it off as "just how he does things".
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:46 pm UTC

iamspen wrote:"How can I improve my qualities as a monster and better myself as a human pile of garbage?" wonders Betsy DeVos just before rescinding 72 documents clarifying how schools should deal with issues related to special needs and disabled students.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/edu ... -students/


Any confirmation on the updated article? Says this was basically house cleaning, rescinding documents that either were replaced by newer versions or referred to programs that no longer exist.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:41 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
iamspen wrote:"How can I improve my qualities as a monster and better myself as a human pile of garbage?" wonders Betsy DeVos just before rescinding 72 documents clarifying how schools should deal with issues related to special needs and disabled students.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/edu ... -students/


Any confirmation on the updated article? Says this was basically house cleaning, rescinding documents that either were replaced by newer versions or referred to programs that no longer exist.



Washington Post wrote:Professor Bill Koski, director of the Youth and Education Law Project at Stanford University, said he reviewed many of the documents on the list and did not believe the move would effect how schools accommodate students with disabilities.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:43 pm UTC

The bigger question here is. Why did someone link us to an article from October 2017, when there was an updated version of that article posted a day or two later?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:38 pm UTC

Well, the bigger question actually is, how is anyone able to support the monstrous acts that the Trump administration is currently doing?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:55 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:Well, the bigger question actually is, how is anyone able to support the monstrous acts that the Trump administration is currently doing?

Which monstrous act? There's a lot of them. Though some are just merely awful. What's your bar for monstrous? Separating children? Legalized robbery/forfeiture? Refugee ban? White Nazis/supremacist? Police brutality? Robbing our future to support a small white base? Climate change failures? I could go on, but we would be playing semantics and spectrum games.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:11 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:Well, the bigger question actually is, how is anyone able to support the monstrous acts that the Trump administration is currently doing?

People have long since gotten used to U.S. presidential administrations committing monstrous acts.
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