Hardest Major

[Woofsie]

(Biology of any sort is the hardest major, duh, we've got to think of things on the widest orders of organization (micro to macro))

"Hi, I'm a physicist! Meet my friend quark! Meet my other friend galactic supercluster!"


Note: I am not actually a physicist, give me a few more years.

[Izawwlgood]

Touche.

I'd say theres more complexity in between the protein level and the ecological level then there is between the quark level and the galactic super cluster level, but.... yeah good point.

[Tjencks]

What about music ed?

Requires an insane amount of credits, easily more than any other major because it requires performance credits on a primary instrument, and you have to learn piano. Requires ear training which of most people it would be hilarious to see them try to do, even for music majors it's difficult at first. Likewise, theory is no small feat, and on top of all the homework they have to do they also have to student teach and practice an instrument. Finally culminating in a recital of which is pass fail. Easily the hardest major, maybe not topic wise, but with the amount of work you have to do and how hard it is, it is no small feat.

[headprogrammingczar]

I will back that up, especially if you decide to do techno, because then you need to really know your math as well as being an artist.

[pyroman]

I find it interesting reading through the myriad of opinions on what the hardest major it. I had originally started this thread after stumbling across a bunch of sites that basically said that i was screwed as an EE as it consistently ranked on the top 10 often number one in a list of the hardest majors. To be honest i was surprised to see such a deviation from my other finds and experiences say. I think its a fair assessment when i say that the xkcd forums contain a larger than normal percentage of science and technologically oriented people which made it even more interesting to see so many of these people promoting other majors as harder.

[headprogrammingczar]

It is really more that xkcd caters to a vastly wider scientific base than other forums. Seriously, where else can you find physicists, computer scientists, webdevs, sysadmins, code monkeys, chemists, biologists, linguists, and ordinary idiots, all in the same place?

[Izawwlgood]

Bordellos?

[photosinensis]

The biology disciplines aren't that hard, actually. The only problem is the general disdain that biologists in academia have for people interested in the medical professions. I can't entirely tell you why this antipathy exists, but it is there. When I was a bio/pre-med sort of person, they'd relax once I said that I was more interested in research medicine than in medical practice. Of course, I got fed up with even that after a few years, and am pursuing the idea of being a code monkey. At the very least, there's less overhead.

Now, which of my friends has it worst? I'm not sure. I've got an EE friend that doesn't seem to struggle with engineering at all, but he's probably the least effective communicator I've ever seen in my life (and has the almost-failing freshman English grade to prove it). On the other hand, one of my friends was a philosophy/English literature double major, and she worked her ass off--though that was probably the double major and not the rigor of either field on its own (friends in each field have had significantly less work to do than she did). Architecture majors may live in their building, but honestly, I've come to the conclusion that they're just better at being martyrs than the rest of us. I once dated one of those easy art girls, and man, that was awesome--but her struggles were not really academic.

No, I think I shall cast my vote for the music majors. They spend more time chasing that dream than anybody else.

[Izawwlgood]

I wouldn't say it's antipathy as much as skepticism. I know a lot of pre-med students who were so bad at biology I could barely contain smirks. Bio understanding is a decent metric for how well they'll do in med school, and frankly, a lot of pre-med students are better off changing to that spanish major sooner rather then later. I tutored Orgo and was astounded at how dumb many people where who wanted to be treating human beings.

[caje]

Anything but Political Science, which is anything but science and my current major. It is interesting I just wish the professors would stop pretending it's anything like a real science.

EDIT: Their is no ONE hardest major for everyone. Their are some you have to study much more then others (but does that really make them harder?) Everyones brains are wired differently my skill sets and natural physical-disabilities would make an art major be much harder for me then it would for me to be one of the "hard" majors. Now I would have to study less for an art major but their is nothing I could really do to not fail, where as in biology I could just study more and get better grades.

[sciborg]

Yo, I'm a Mechanical Engineering major; and yeah its pretty freaking hard...

BUT; I vouch for music being the hardest as well. Not only do you have to do the same level of thinking, you have to do it instantly with no mistakes the first or second time you see the music. Also, no one can possibly double check you. That's like solving a partial differential equation real time without stopping for breaks, never opening a textbook and (get this) not making any mistakes (if your a professional this means you lose your job.)

I play piano and saxaphone, nothing professional or close to it, My sister is Piano Performance, those spend more time with their instrument (piano) to perfect their art (music) than I spend with my instrument (math) to perfect my art (engineering.)

And to top it off, only the very top tier of musicians get jobs... Hows that for risk? I know at least a couple musicians turned engineer because it was "easier."

[Pit]

Yo, I'm a Mechanical Engineering major; and yeah its pretty freaking hard...

BUT; I vouch for music being the hardest as well. Not only do you have to do the same level of thinking, you have to do it instantly with no mistakes the first or second time you see the music. Also, no one can possibly double check you. That's like solving a partial differential equation real time without stopping for breaks, never opening a textbook and (get this) not making any mistakes (if your a professional this means you lose your job.)

I play piano and saxaphone, nothing professional or close to it, My sister is Piano Performance, those spend more time with their instrument (piano) to perfect their art (music) than I spend with my instrument (math) to perfect my art (engineering.)

And to top it off, only the very top tier of musicians get jobs... Hows that for risk? I know at least a couple musicians turned engineer because it was "easier."

I agree. Music theory is quite a class to take. In fact, I have a Music-turned-Biology Majored friend in Vanderbilt.

And yes, not making a single mistake (sometimes, also "complicating" music from a simple tune). And the heightened risk of not making any money (and not getting into an orchestra/concert band / ect).

Music majors have a hard time with the major even if they were naturally inclined towards music, or a specific instrument. It covers a large scope that goes well beyond what is asked for by people who play instruments for fun (and well beyond what people expect). You can be naturally gifted at math and think many to all of your classes are easy, but you'd have to be Mozart to think all your music requirements were as simple.

[bigarchguy]

i think i have to cast my vote as architecture being a particularly hard major. my main studio class is worth five credits, but just the mandatory hours are MWF 1 pm- 6pm. thats not counting the other countless hours spent in there working on projects. and thats just one class. we also have other arch classes plus general eds to take care of. not only that, but with architecture there isnt really a right and wrong like say math or physics. its a weird blend of creativity and art skills and structural and practical knowledge. with any given building there are hundreds of things that an architect must take into account when designing, from site to structural integrity to what kind of hardware the doors will have. plus just to get a bachelors degree it takes five years rather than the normal four. i'm not trying to put down medical majors because Lord knows i could never have someones life in my hands like they do, i'm just saying the actual schooling for architecture is harder than average.

[intrinsic]

Electrical Engineering is the hardest undergrad degree to obtain.
Why? Because I'm a senior Computer Science major. The only people I see working harder than my classmates and me are the EE guys. I'll give a tip o' the hat to Physics, Mechanical Engineering, and Chemical Engineering.

Anything that doesn't require math through differential equations can be immediately discounted. Anything that doesn't require at least one year of calculus-based physics can can probably be discounted. Anything that doesn't require at least one lab class per year is probably a waste of time.

Sorry all you Communications and Art History majors!

[intrinsic]

As an EE my self i would have to agree with those who say that the hardest major is the one that you suck at. My way of comparing these is to switch them around. If you took an art major and had them switch to engineering and had the engineer do the reverse and them and see who has the higher gpa (or if you want you can calculate it based of the percent deviation from there chosen major).

I'm confident that I could do better as an art major than a comparable art student could do as a CompSci major. I feel the same way about many, many degrees.

[Izawwlgood]

Intrinsic, I think you ought to take the pepsi challenge and write a term paper on the intransigence of Borges (e.g.,). You talk a lot of talk sir, but can you... (duhn duhn DUUUUUHN!) walk the walk?

With all seriousness, your metric of 'hardest working' is entirely anecdotal. I knew a fashion design major who routinely worked 48 hr shifts only stopping because her hands would start to bleed. I knew an engineering major who carefully and steadily maintained a C average with a delicate regiment of pot and cartoons.

I dig Belials quote about once having a series of wholly personal experiences that prove anecdotal evidence is not to be trusted.

(I spent 3 hrs sorting through data on matlab yesterday. Results!)
/bio plug

[ash.gti]

I personally never found Comp Sci to be a challenge, and the EE classes I had to take were fun for me (but I regularly build stuff with the Parallax Basic Stamp micro-controllers because its a fun pass time and computer games are boring to me now, kinda gave me a working knowledge of a lot of the EE concepts before I even went into the class). Granted, I am not an EE major, so the higher level classes might of been a different store but they never seemed difficult to me.

However, I do really like math (I was on the verge of going into math as my major before I made up my mind to do Software Engineering, which is pretty much Comp Sci). Physics (mainly because of my fondness for math) wasn't really a challenge for me either. The classes that challenged me the most were the ones I sucked at. History, English, Lit, any Arts class, most of those I passed but they never improved my GPA in college.


I'd go with the argument that whatever your good at is what is going to be easy for you, and whatever your not so good at is what your going to consider hard.

I am sure we have all met that one guy that never studied and drank all through college and still came out with a 4.0 GPA, there is one in every major in every school I honestly think so anyway. Its like some sort of exclusive club that apparently I missed the bus for because I never liked drinking anyway.

P.S. Whats the deal with people on the internet anyway? Someone asks an opinionated question and people treat their opinions as facts. Then no one ever bends in these 'discussions' and then its flame time. Kinda the reason I only log into these forums but like once a month now.

[Metacelsus]

At my uni chem eng has the rep for being a very very painful degree, though apparently the remuneration is worth it (yay for oil money!).

I never found biochem that bad from memory, I mean I never topped the class or anything (second or third year biochem I generally did very well at middling the class really) lots of memorization but at least a lot of the systems make a certain sort of sense, it might have helped that I was doing some straight chem at the same time and so could look at things from a couple of different perspectives.

[Wulf]

Hard as in hard to make my my brain learn this data and process it - Math, physics, biology, astro...yeah been said.

Hard as in Golly Gosh Darn Gee Wiz I can't keep up with all this course work - Music Theater. While I was breezing through school working 20 hrs a week and taking 15 credit hours in 5 classes, my (then future) wife was taking 11 classes to get 12 hours along with being required to be in productions and unable to spare time to get a job. Some required classes for her were only worth 1/2 credit hour.

[Antimatter Spork]

I knew a girl who wanted to do a Music Ed/Physics double major. Fortunately she regained her sanity and is only doing music ed right now.

I still have to submit that particular combination as the hardest major though. You get all the insane time commitment/classes of a music major plus all of the crazy academic ability necessary to be successful in physics.



As a music major, I can speak a bit about how hard/deceptive my major is. First, let me say that it certainly is challenging in almost every way. Most of the music majors I know take a full credit load (the maximum the college will let them take) every semester for their entire four years (those of us who aren't doing 4.5 or 5 year programs). On top of that, many of the classes involve more class time than they really "should" under the standard 1 credit/hour per week formula (For example, at my school, ensembles are maximum 1 credit, but sometimes .5 credits, depending on whether it's your major ensemble, and they have anywhere from four to six hours of rehearsal a week plus another hour or so a day of independent practice). We've also got history, theory, aural skills, secondary instruments, and our private instruction. All in all, it adds up to quite a load. That said, we don't have as much outside-of-class work as a lot of other majors do. We do have to practice all the time, but we don't usually have hundreds of pages of reading to do for each of our classes (generally the reading is just for history or theory or any liberal arts electives we're taking/education classes taken outside the school of music).

[fyrenwater]

I would think that any major in an innovative and constantly-fluctuating field. One week, your work is all set. The next, you're already obsolete. I can't think of any specifics, but the sciences tend to be like this.

Also, are we talking about time spent working, effort put into it, difficulty getting good work after graduation, or a combination of those and more?

[evilbeanfiend]

I would think that any major in an innovative and constantly-fluctuating field. One week, your work is all set. The next, you're already obsolete. I can't think of any specifics, but the sciences tend to be like this

err, no they don't as
a) as an undergrad you tend to be taught well established stuff, especially in earlier courses
b) even if they do teach you something that changes it doesn't really matter e.g. you still gotta learn newtonian mechanics and classical waves

phds are a different story however, someone can easily publish something that invalidates or pre-empts a large part of your work

[fyrenwater]

err, no they don't

*sigh* I meant grad school.

[Metacelsus]

err, no they don't

*sigh* I meant grad school.

I'm still not sure I'd agree. There's always changes and developments sure but by the time you get to doing a phd, let alone post-doc stuff you're probably working on a fairly specific area in your field and once you build up the base of knowledge keeping up on the literature is important but not necessarily some terrible burden. There's always new stuff happening but major field shifting changes are few and far between and you tend to hear about them when they happen. I'm sure it varies from field to field though.

Since the original question was about 'majors' I think it was more of an undergrad thing anyway.

[Leviticus]

Hmmmm Hardest. Performing Arts hands down. It's all subjective and there is a myriad of subjects to learn. At the end of the day it's the performing arts major that takes the cake.

[SJ Zero]

Instrumentation and Control Engineering is incredibly difficult. You need to understand both applied and theoretical physics, electronics, electrical, computers, as well as high level maths, not to mention chemistry and human engineering.

[OOPMan]

So, what this thread has proven is that the question is silly, right?

[Cleverbeans]

I'm confident that I could do better as an art major than a comparable art student could do as a CompSci major. I feel the same way about many, many degrees.

LMAO. I dare you to even TRY and get into a music program. If by art major you mean poli-sci, education, or some other donkery then certainly I'll concede the point.

[studyinserendipity]

So, what this thread has proven is that the question is silly, right?

Haha, agreed. I think the answer is really dependent on the ways of thinking dominating a particular field (or a particular program, as each college is probably different) and the ways of thinking that are the most comfortable to the individual. Then one must consider the amount of work necessary for passing, the willingness of the individual to do the type and amount of work necessary, the level of competition from others in the program, etc.

Personally, I used to do my ex's programming homework for fun without actually knowing a programming language, so I think any major involving that would have been easy for me. Music was difficult because of the subjective nature of grading and the sheer amount of practicing necessary on so many different instruments. I also think education can be a tough major depending on the school and the program (the one I'm in now is pretty competitive, since there are only 4 of us in it and we all do top quality work) and also how 'good' you want your stuff to be. In other words, it is easy to get a C+ and just barely pass, but if you want an A, you've got to spend a great deal of time and effort on your work. This is probably another aspect of the overall thread question that needs to be clarified: Are you talking the hardest major to just complete the work, understand the overarching theories, get a passing grade, or excel in?

[NorthernFalcon]

After reading through this thread, I had to post.

I started life as a double Engineering / Music Education major. After three years, I dumped engineering. I must admit, it was complete insanity to try what I did. Handling one of them would have been fine, but both at the same time was crazy.

I'd have to say both are about equally hard, but in different ways. And yes, it depends on what your strengths are.

Music teachers demand time. Talent helps too, but when you have x number of teachers saying "you must practice 20 hours a week for me", you eventually run out of hours.

There are multiple teachers you take lessons from: you have to be able to play the piano, sing in tune while sight reading, plus whatever instrument you play. You also have to ear train--which is terrible if you don't have perfect pitch, like about 75% of music majors. One class I had was the prof playing a hymn and us writing down all the notes she played while she played it, by ear. All I just said was to pass a 200-level class. Later on, Instrumental majors (like myself), you have to learn to play every instrument in the orchestra. Which means lessons on all of them much of the time.

Personally, music theory was very easy--but that's why I'm a music major. The ear training and memorization is what's hard for me.

But engineering isn't easy either. It takes the same level of dedication to sit down and memorize derivation and integration tables, physics formulas, and the rest. For me, the big thing was that every Calc class offered on campus was offered at 8 in the morning.

What teachers you get can determine this too. My music history prof had us reading four textbooks on the same subject simultaneously, so we could get different editors' opinion of the same event. Then for the exams, he gave us anywhere from 3 to 10 different possible essay questions, then choose two for the exam. He expected essays to be about ten pages, handwritten in class, properly sourced, and all sources memorized before the exam. Yeah.

I find it was interesting that on campus, the music ed and engineering programs share two common traits: they are the two longest-to-finish programs on campus, and they both have the fewest number of general studies requirements. All programs are supposed to be finishable in four years, but most engineering students take five, and I have never seen a music ed major finish in fewer than five.

A bad music student would probably do poorer in engineering than a good engineering student in music, and vice versa.

[The Reaper]

an ABET certified school is fairly similar coursewise to other ABET certified schools. Yale to boondocknowhereschool, if they're both ABET cert'ed, they both generally teach the same things, though I'd hope Yale, for the price, would offer a few extra classes of interest, and not make the other non-engineering classes as gay as some are.

Oh, and I wish I never had to take art at my school. I pissed off the teacher constantly with my views on art and the world as a whole, and as such, it became obvious which days I pissed her off more, as my projects scored lower. But no, they want well rounded students. Egh. And for some godforsaken reason, they wouldn't let you take computer graphics classes and the like, which would have been scores less annoying for an engineer. -sigh- Oh well, I'll take my C and roll with it :\

[TheKrikkitWars]

I'm going to say Explosive Ordinance Engineering, as it was for a long time the only undergrad degree*, to have another undergrad degree in Chem/Physics/Engineering or 5 years practical experience in a related field as the two possible prequisites.

*It eventually got renamed as a masters.

[GoC]

Depends what you mean by hardest.
The one that requires the most hours? Probably biomedical research (basically med school+lots of extras).
The one that has the most difficult concepts to understand? Physics.
The one that has the sum total of the difficulty of all concepts the highest? No idea but meteorology sounds like it could be.
The one that has the greatest brainpower useage throughout the course (not just counting concepts but papers ect.)? Music for intuitive side, computer science for logical side. Not sure about these though.
The one that makes you smarter? Physics.
The one that is the most frustrating? Something very subjective which your marker thinks is objective.

[Brooklynxman]

As a CS major, I need to step in and say CS isn't that hard....if you are a natural at it. Judging by the other students in my first semester class (it is a requirement for like 12 majors in my school, all of which it has nothing to do with), it is hard as fuck for everyone else.

[bigglesworth]

I'm going to go ahead and argue for biochemistry. Because, well, we do the thermodynamics and kinetics that would make the biosci and biomed students pee themselves, but we also do the physiology that would blow the chemistry majors' minds with the odd equations for odder bodily functions.

In the UK, it's common to only study one subject at uni. But Biochem is effectively a Major in Biology with a Minor in Chemistry. With all the Biology modules, and most of the Chemistry modules. And with two sets of labs, that can add up to 26 hours a week of scheduled work, with the study and lab reports expected on top of that.

[Mercat]

I am really enjoying this thread. While I would not consider my major the most difficult (civil engineering), at my univeristy it does require the most number of credit-hours. I think chemEs probably have the most difficult major, as I continually see chemEs work insane hours on homeworks they don't really understand and then pass with mostly C's simply because the material is that difficult--while electrical is very difficult as well, I think those students tend to have some sense of enjoyment of the understanding of it, which makes it seem less painful.

As for the music discussion, I'd have to say it strikes me as odd that so many people here would consider it difficult. I think it's a matter of just liking what you are good at, and going for it. I've been doing many various music programs since basically Kindergarten (9 years gradeschool singing, plus choir, 7 years piano w/ some ear training, started trumpet in fifth grade; in HS marching band, concert band, jazz band, winter percussion, pit orchestra [and one year in the cast instead], brass quintet, picked up a little French Horn and steel drums, 1 yr theory; 3 years marching band in college, 1 year playing ukulele, and I also march drum corps--apologies for that list being so ridiculously long) and from what I can tell in our music department, it's just 100% kids who love music (and only about 10% of them suck). I wouldn't say it's difficult at all, you just have to love playing music, because that is what you do all day. I've been on the stricter end of things with drum corps in terms of spending hours fine-tuning things (vs. a music major, that is) and as an engineer it's pretty much just careful application of technique. Use your lungs this way, move your tongue that way, put some emotion in it.

It gets a little more challenging in theory and music ed type stuff, but I think if you understand how a piano works it's not very difficult at all... Although I could understand disliking practicing an instrument that will not be your main focus. (I still wouldn't call it difficult...)

tl;dr--music majors generally do it because it's as easy as breathing (but more enjoyable) for them, so I wouldn't call it difficult in the slightest.





Then again I have the benefit of a very musical family and a fairly mathematically adept mind (though whether that's the cause or effect of music appreciation, I do not know) so there's at least a little bias there in that regard. (Though music majors sure as hell enjoy the work more than other majors, I'd say.)

Back to civil for a second, I'd say it's definitely a major where you can open yourself up to a ridiculously complicated PhD or Master's simply because of how broad of a subject it is; for example I'm doing a minor in art history so I can go into architecture in grad school, but you can go into specialties like steel construction, materials analysis, geological engineering, transportation engineering, water engineering... Which, trust me, water engineering is a pain in the ass. It's biology, chemistry, and advanced mathematics (water models suck) all rolled into one. Painful stuff, in terms of enjoyment-to-time ratio.

[Matterwave1]

Well I can't really speak for other majors, but an Astrophysics and Economics double major isn't too easy.

I don't know if other majors are harder tho...certainly Bio would be harder for me cus I hate memorizing stuff. XD

[idlehandsrome18]

I'm a comp sci major, which is probably the easiest engineering major. The work is normally assigned long before its due and once you get your mind around it, you can work on your homework just by thinking about the problem and solutions. Then its just sitting down and coding it. I'd agree with Mercat that chemical engineering is probably the hardest. The senior project for chem. e's at my school involves designing an entire chemical factory that produces some final product (obviously not building it, but doing all the math). That sounds like it would melt my brain.

[0xBADFEED]

I'm a comp sci major, which is probably the easiest engineering major.

This really depends on the school. At my uni I think Comp Sci and EE/CE were probably the hardest Engineering majors in terms of what was expected of students. At the upper-level, problem sets for CS classes could easily take 40 hours.

My vote is for Architecture as being the major that requires the most work, although that's not the same as 'hardest'. I knew several Arch majors in university. They were always busy. It's not that the material is difficult. They just always had very large, ongoing projects that basically determined their grade for the course.

[adunebutt]

I vote a pure Physics concentration or general Engineering...I'm in Computer Science now and I definitely am not enjoying the Engineering classes. I agree with what was said before in that Engineering degrees require you to consume information and utilize it, rather than memorize and spit it back out.