[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

[PM 2Ring]

Right on. So my read of the situation is that gender queer people are neutral in terms of gender. Neither male nor female. Or do you (general "you") choose a gender you like more that day and go with that? Sounds like the possibly related term gender fluid. I might be in the T spectrum of our little acronym however living in a small conservative town leaves me woefully underrepresented in terms of the other letters.

It's complicated. Some gender queer people feel like they aren't strongly gendered, so neutral is a good description. But other gender queer people strongly identify with both traditional genders and need to express both their masculine and feminine side, although not necessarily simultaneously. And it's not really something that you can consciously choose: it's more like due to the complex interplay of personal and social factors your gender chooses you.

Gender labels can be useful things, but they also have a negative side. They can be a useful way to indicate regions in the complex gender landscape, but they also get used like labels on boxes, with the implicit assumption that everyone needs to be put into their proper box, permanently. Many gender nonconformists do not like being shoved into boxes (especially the box labelled "Weirdo"), we like to be able to wander over the gender landscape as the mood and situation takes us.

Some people find it very liberating to be able to mix gender expression, eg wearing a beard & a skirt at the same time. And they should be able to do so without fear of reprisal. OTOH, if a person strongly identifies with the opposite binary gender to the one they were forced to grow up as it's totally understandable that they would like to express themselves as fully as possible in their self-identified gender. And they should be able to do that without people insinuating that they're perpetuating outmoded binary gender stereotypes.

Here's a post I wrote a few years ago on this topic. It's not long, so I'll quote it in its entirety.

These two books came out in 2009. What an enlightened world we live in.

Stereotypes in themselves aren't evil, it just depends on how seriously people take them. If males & females behaved the same, wore the same clothing & jewellery, etc, cross-dressing wouldn't be as much fun. To paraphrase RuPaul, we are all born naked, everything else is just playing dress-ups.

I don't have a problem with a society defining standards of male & female behaviour. What I object to is forcing people to choose one or the other, rather than allowing them to pick & choose the elements they identify with. This is closely related to the issue of labels. Labels are useful signposts to identify different parts of the complex "behaviour landscape". Labels become evil when they are attached to individuals and used to fence off the behaviour landscape into disconnected regions. When that happens, people are punished if they don't stay in the region that society assigns to them, and people who identify as "normal" feel entitled to punish those of us that are in the more exotic parts of the behaviour landscape.

[Zohar]

Yeaaaah I still disagree with you on that, but still like my original response well enough so I guess you can just click the link and see it there.

[Ginger]

Right on. So my read of the situation is that gender queer people are neutral in terms of gender. Neither male nor female. Or do you (general "you") choose a gender you like more that day and go with that? Sounds like the possibly related term gender fluid. I might be in the T spectrum of our little acronym however living in a small conservative town leaves me woefully underrepresented in terms of the other letters.

It's complicated. ;) Some gender queer people feel like they aren't strongly gendered, so neutral is a good description. But other gender queer people strongly identify with both traditional genders and need to express both their masculine and feminine side, although not necessarily simultaneously. And it's not really something that you can consciously choose: it's more like due to the complex interplay of personal and social factors your gender chooses you.

I like the idea that your gender chooses you (Go, Pikachu, I choose you et cetera!). Never felt much like a choice to me. It was just a part of me, that wanting to be the opposite gender, and so I can strongly identify with that aspect of being gender queer. I'm sure I have socially-described "masculine" traits in some of me however they don't override the feminine traits enough that I feel comfortable being called by what parts I was born with. Definitely agree as well that none of our expressions should be met with reprisal from the "normal people" of society.

I don't think it's fair to leave the option only to strong-willed people who are willing to go against the flow and suffer the consequences. Besides, if everyone is allowed to choose whatever parts they like best, why identify them with "boy" or "girl" at all?

Agree with the first part of Zohar's response however the second part is iffier. Definitely for me I didn't have the strongest of wills, was easy to fashion into one thing or the other by persuasive liberal discussions and was desperate to find a place where I fit with my fellow women--though painfully aware that several of them didn't want me, so was open to siding with traditional men as well. I believe we should still keep around some "typically gendered descriptors" because they're more of guidelines than actual rules. If you aren't afraid of social censure at any rate.

"Girl" being a thing doesn't necessarily limit your options for expression as long as you are open to the neutral or both categories. However I still think we should abolish the expectation of exact match-ups with gender stereotypes because they are useless in a world with more people mixing things up.

[Zohar]

I'm not clear on what benefit you see for having these guidelines, could you explain?

[Ginger]

It's purely a personal thing. I'm talking about people like me that rely on the gender binary to distinguish us as people. Like, I choose to act like a stereotypical girl sometimes because that helps me figure out how best to live my life, not necessarily other people. So if you like the gender binary to some degree you might want to emulate these things in times where you're unsure of yourself. It's like a script from a play helping us remember our lines.

[Zohar]

I understand that, and I think a lot of it is a consequence of the existing stereotypes - "I feel comfortable acting this way because this is the way I'm expected to act". I don't think wanting guidance like this would be a thing in a world without these stereotypes. Of course, we can't just switch to that world by snapping our fingers, and I get where you're coming from.

[Quercus]

When you say that you are gender queer, and that you like your beard, I get the picture that being called a man may not bother you? It would for me.

I guess it bothers me in that it's inaccurate, and it does feel a bit uncomfortable; but it bothers me a lot less than changing part of me I really like would.

However I've never met any gender queer people. Since you like wearing skirts and dresses too does that mean you have aspects of both genders inside you? I'm just curious.

I don't really have anything coherent enough to be called an internal "sense of gender" at all, so I'm not sure how to answer that question. I'm mostly happy with my body, except body hair, but then I do have breasts (yay for gynecomastia!) and I think I'd feel significantly less happy if I didn't have those, I also think I'd vaguely prefer having a vulva over a penis, but that's mostly to do with the fact that I'd like to be able to wear tight fitting clothing without having to worry about whether my penis is showing.

In terms of expression, I shift around a lot, but definitely lean towards the feminine, and start feeling significant discomfort if I have to wear masc clothing for a long period of time.

I identify as genderqueer mostly on the basis that my relationship to gender is non-normative i.e. queer. If I was getting more specific I guess I'd say I was agender (in that I don't have an internal sense of gender as far as I can tell) and transfeminine (in that my preferred expression is usually feminine, but my body is read as masculine most of the time). I used to identify as genderfluid, but then I realised that what I was thinking of as a gender identity was mostly what I was feeling like wearing, not how I felt inside.

[eSOANEM]

I do have a sense of gender sometimes but I mostly use genderqueer because it's a nice and broad umbrella. My sense of gender does vary from day to day or week to week so I do often describe myself as genderfluid as well but, most of the time, both "male" and "female" feel actively incorrect descriptors of me, sometimes one feels ok but not the other and sometimes both seem fine.

Basically my gender is hella complicated and "genderqueer" seems like a good way for summing that up without having to go into a big long description of a of my gender feels.

[Quercus]

Basically my gender is hella complicated a d "genderqueer" seems like a good way for summing that up without having to go into a big long description of a of my gender feels.

Yes! So much this

[poxic]

I might fall under genderqueer, but most of the time I just don't gender at all. Even thinking of myself as neuter is sorta too much effort.

And yet growing up girl means I usually correct online people when they boy me by default because "everyone is male unless otherwise specified" annoys me. Eh.

[kalira]

Spoilered for unsolicited re: body hair removal:

Spoiler:

Quercus, have you tried depilatory creams? I am super lazy on the body hair removal front most of the time, but I use a spray-on cream (this stuff) and it's easy and quick whenever I want to denude the legs/armpits/etc. Just 5-10 minutes letting it sit and you're pretty much done. I always err on the side of "sensitive formula" stuff if you can find it just to be safe, and you can't use it every day, both of which because chem burns are no fun. (blah blah blah, follow all the directions, etc etc. I left it on a little too long once in a sensitive area... never again. Never had any issues leaving it a couple minutes longer on my legs though.) But like I said, super easy. If you can find it or something close to it, you might want to try it -- I know I am always pleased with the results. Side note, though, it kinda sprays the floor too, and makes it super slippery, so make sure you're in the shower and you don't need to go anywhere before it's finished working its chemical magics. (FWIW I'm female, but I seem to have relatively thick body hair.)

[Pfhorrest]

I identify as both genderfluid and genderqueer, as well as pangender and agender, and here's what all those terms mean to me:

- Agender: I don't especially feel like gender is "a thing" to me; like, I see that society genders things and hear that other people strongly care about how they are gendered by society, but it doesn't especially matter to me what conceptual gender-boxes other people map me into or not. I don't care what pronouns people use for me or if they think of me as manly or womanly or anything like that.

- Pangender: It's hard for me to tease apart how this differs from agender, but generally I identify with it because I do like being able to step into any gender-box, when that box suits me, it's only the stuck-ness I'd object to. I don't especially care how I'm gendered, but I don't (always) want to be genderless.

It's like...if genders were tastes in music, for analogy, then I'm agender in that if you asked me what kind of music I would like to be stuck listening to forever, I'd shrug and say whatever doesn't matter though being stuck with only one forever and unable to turn it off kinda sucks; but then I'm pangender in that if given the free choice to listen to whatever I like whenever I like, while a lot of the time I'd just have peace and quiet, I would listen to a wide variety of different music when I do happen to feel like listening to it. As opposed to someone who's, say, all country all the time; yeah I mean country's okay and if I have to listen to some music I wouldn't especially prefer something else, but I don't need there to be music at all, and when there is, you know, variety is nice.

- Genderfluid: It's also hard for me to tease this apart from pangender, but to use that music analogy again, at different times I feel like listening to different genres. I guess this is a narrower concept than pangender, because it doesn't strictly imply that I like all the music, just that I like at least a few different kinds, some more than others at different times. Which is true, even though I do like all the genres: at different times I feel like listening to one more than another, though it's a weak preference and not like I have to have my rap right now and don't you dare play country at me.

- Genderqueer: To continue with this music analogy, I like fusion genres. I like having breasts and I like having a penis, at the same time, and ideally if it weren't too much trouble I would like to have a vagina instead of testicles below my penis, and a more hairless, softer, generally feminine shape, but I still like being tall and strong which is generally considered masculine. I wear a mix of masculine and feminine clothes, and a mix of other masculine and feminine presentations (long hair but no makeup or jewelry), though modulo the genderfluidity the ratio of masc/fem changes with time and context. I have a mix of what are traditionally considered masculine and feminine personality traits and live a lifestyle that's a mix of what were traditionally considered masculine and feminine roles, though those both (personality and social role) seem like things where the gender lines have already melted so much so long ago, in my own perception and also in societal expectations, that I actually have to stop and think about where the gender lines even are/were on those matters, and unlike presentation or how I feel about my body, I don't normally even think about those things in the context of gender unless someone else brings them up.

[Quercus]

Spoilered for unsolicited re: body hair removal:

I did try cream once or twice... And it didn't touch my hair at all, something like 80% of the hair was still very firmly attached.

Eventually I want to switch to sugaring, using homemade sugar wax - I've tried this on smallish areas and it works great, i just need to get faster at it for it to be practical as a primary method. I'm using sugar wax partly because it's way cheaper, but mainly because i had my back waxed once with normal wax and despite following the aftercare to the letter my back was covered in hives until after the hair grew back, which rather defeats the point.

[CelticNot]

Officially funded for GRS for this fiscal year; now I'm waiting on a callback from the clinic on Montreal for scheduling. More waiting, but it's still progress!

[poxic]

Woot!

[Ginger]

Just got on the correct dosage of medicine for what it was raised to last time. I don't blame my doctor however he didn't get it approved properly so there's that. Even my electrologist is bugging me that we should see changes and I need to do good with my hormones for the month. I'm not sure we'll see the relevant changes in just a month missus lady. Still need to tell people that I've changed my name too. I still like transitioning though.

[ivnja]

I'm torn on how to handle my Facebook presence through my transition. Specifically, I don't really know what to do with 11 years of accumulated...life. Photos, posts, messages, all things that are obviously "me," but with a name and a face that I'm leaving behind. I could start fresh with a new profile (which I've actually created already, although I'm not actively using it) - the one trans friend I know irl used this approach. I could sanitize the existing profile - change the name (and the username that shows up in the url - obviously a no-go if that can't be changed), save and remove old photos of dude-me, remove references to my old name, etc, but leave the bulk of the posts. Or I could just keep it all where it is (other than the name / gender marker change), and embrace that it's all part of where I've come from. I know that there's at least one forumite who seems to have gone about it this way.

It's part of the larger question about how to go about coming out. Most of my family on one side know; none on the other side do (although I'm seeing them all for a week-long beach-side family reunion in less than a month, so that could get interesting - I'm currently just planning to always have a shirt on and hope for the best). My very closest (female, with two exceptions) friends all know, but in several cases even their spouses (who are all good friends themselves that I've known for years) don't know yet. Obviously, people that I genuinely consider friends will be told when the time is right. But I don't know what I want to do with acquaintances / the world at large. I could ghost everybody, at least temporarily, and try to go stealth - this would fit in with the new profile strategy. However, I'm pushing 30 and didn't start on hormones until last December, so the reality of things is that I'm less likely to end up being able to pass as well as someone who transitioned a decade younger - going full stealth may not be a viable option, no matter what I'd personally prefer. I could publicly transition and just be openly trans - I have this vague notion that this would somehow be a brave/honorable/whatever thing, bring positive visibility to transgender issues, all that, but at the same time it's basically impossible to un-share something like that in the internet age and I worry some about harassment/safety. Or I could do something in between, and not necessarily hide it from people who know me now but not advertise it to people who don't, either.


Anyone have advice / personal experience they'd like to share?

[Zohar]

I am not in your situation and don't have personal experience in this. I can say most people I know have changed their names but kept the rest of their profile intact. Many of them also posted a coming-out status on FB, but that might have been restricted to specific people. In theory I think I would not to disconnect myself from my past experiences, but that's a hypothetical choice I might make, and not the actual situation you're experiencing.

[Liri]

I'll ditto what Zohar said. I've had friends go both routes (one of them, the one who went with the new profile, ended up deciding she wasn't trans*, which doesn't really impact on your decision, but she might have done it because she was never very certain).

As an FYI, your Official Facebook Name that shows up in your URL can be changed, but a limited number of times (maybe just once?).

[Ginger]

I could publicly transition and just be openly trans - I have this vague notion that this would somehow be a brave/honorable/whatever thing, bring positive visibility to transgender issues, all that, but at the same time it's basically impossible to un-share something like that in the internet age and I worry some about harassment/safety. Or I could do something in between, and not necessarily hide it from people who know me now but not advertise it to people who don't, either.


Anyone have advice / personal experience they'd like to share?

My experience is with transitioning on the more open side to people that know me and keeping other people on a need to know basis. I have been misidentified by others--especially if they knew me before I started transitioning--and excluded from things like the right bathrooms or women's only groups. I haven't gotten the surgery yet so sometimes I've worried about being yelled at/outed in public/harmed in some way however it hasn't happened yet. Some people try to offer hope and explain to me that other women face similar struggles as me. A few have even given me gifts of clothes or makeup (however rarely do they give their unabashed acceptance or seem okay with me using their bathrooms). Got rid of most of my old clothes and replaced them with the proper gender variations. I've wanted to go full stealth and completely hide anything about the old me and don't see any harm with renouncing something about my past that I hate. My opinion is that if you want to be brave for a cause then choosing to be open about your transition allows you to live as you want with no secrets or shame, however some people will slight you for it, call you things you despise or otherwise pretend like transitioning is too difficult for them when it's you whom is doing the work.

My openness does come with anxiety that I'm being evaluated for how well I pass and the fear of being rejected. Some people will happily provide for my fears and call me names like they've done in the past. My family hasn't been completely accepting--those that didn't get it still use my old name or the wrong pronouns--and friends have left me when they've found out. Others will display acceptance however it won't be perfect and may remind you that you'd like to be in stealth all over again. Letting the people who know you most have a clue and leaving others in the dark seems like one of the better ways to resolve the situation.

[Pfhorrest]

I've been more successful losing weight over the past year than I have been n a long time, and as I hoped, my breast fat has lagged behind the rest of it, meaning that I'm getting more shapely and pronounced breasts relative to the rest of me, while generally slimming down, hurray Combined with starting to wear more women's-cut T-shirts in day to day life (out in public where I'm usually wearing pants, not dresses), I'm starting too look and feel a lot more femme more often, which makes me happy. I just got back from a week long camping vacation and even though I couldn't shave and so got all hairy during it, I was feeling particularly girly a lot of the time, and in a number of the photos my girlfriend took of me, I look it too. Hurray.

[Zohar]

It's great you're feeling good with these efforts, and I hope you grow to feel more comfortable with your body!

[Quercus]

Wooo! That's all awesome. So happy for you.

I'm also hoping that I'll lose weight from places other than my boobs first (I recently stopped taking medication that was causing weight gain). I'm a B cup now! I'm feeling more comfortably femme more often too, even when dressed in masc/neutral clothing, which is nice, because then I don't have to spend so much time worrying about safety, professionalism and other such bollocks, and can save my dresses and skirts for when I can be truly comfortable wearing them, rather than being pushed to wear them for dysphoria relief. My new haircut is helping - a pixie cut with extensive layering for volume.

[ivnja]

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Thank you folks for the advice, and especially you Ginger for sharing your personal experiences, which were really helpful to hear. It's going to be something I'm going to have to keep mulling over, and for better or worse it's going to be a little while still before I'm ready for a general coming out so I'll have some time to do so. Right now I'm starting to lean toward keeping the whole profile but locking down the privacy on old pictures and posts that mention gendered stuff, so that only certain highly-trusted people can see them.

My new haircut is helping - a pixie cut with extensive layering for volume.

If you're comfortable with posting a picture (even a face-obscured one), can we see?

[Pfhorrest]

Last weekend I went to do karaoke at a new place, not trying to be particularly feminine though wearing a "T-shirt" that's technically a dress but really just looks like a muscle shirt on me IMO. When my first song came on, some guy in the audience was excited, shouting that he loved that song, and then when I got up to the stage he said "you go girl!" Then I started singing (in my deep voice, for a man's song), and the excited guy's friends made fun of him at their table, but it made me feel good that at first glance he thought "girl", when I wasn't even trying.

[ObsessoMom]

You go, girl!

[Ginger]

When my first song came on, some guy in the audience was excited, shouting that he loved that song, and then when I got up to the stage he said "you go girl!" Then I started singing (in my deep voice, for a man's song), and the excited guy's friends made fun of him at their table, but it made me feel good that at first glance he thought "girl", when I wasn't even trying.

Congratulations on being identified properly. :) It can be so affirming just to hear a simple gendered word that it's amazing. Though that guy's friends shouldn't have made fun of him in my opinion--It's not like "real girls" can't have deep voices. I've been hearing a lot lately about "traps" and "authentic females" and "Guys In Real Life" so it's easy to forget that I too can pass at times and get the desired reaction. Anyways whatever here's to you and your womanhood! Hopefully more passing adventures in the future for you.

[Pfhorrest]

Not sure "identified properly" applies to me since I'm genderqueer not trans, so being gendered male doesn't feel improper to me. But thanks for the support anyway.

[Ginger]

Sorry. I didn't mean to identify you the wrong way either. That said I was only trying to show support for something that seemed to be good. I'm still learning.

[Pfhorrest]

No worries at all, I was just saying there isn't a wrong way for me, I'm cool with whatever. So thanks.

[Ginger]

No problem. My last thing on the subject is going to be that I find it cool that people can identify with whatever gender(s). As somebody that identifies so strongly with being female it's a new experience. Even though most people don't even know about my affliction either. So rock on sir/ma'am.

[thunk]

ugh. I'm a wreck. I've been a wreck all summer.
It seems once again increasingly clear that I should transition, but for whatever reason I can't seem to do it.
Either I'm too scared, or nervous, or straitlaced, or just too damn lazy. Clearly It's easier to suffer and slowly become increasingly alienated from myself rather than lift a finger to do anything about it.
At this rate I'll just look like a brute that is doing a crude impersonation of womanhood because I can't seem to do any work that isn't directly for class.
And yet I've known about my gender for five years...how does everyone else manage to do something about it once they realize?
More importantly, how do I get past my upbringing?

[Monika]

Maybe break it down in little steps? Like
- find out what is necessary to change the name
- find out what is necessary to change the gender on ID, driver's license, passport, birth certificate, social security
- find out what is necessary to access hormones
- schedule appointment with psychologist / GP / endo / clinic (however it works in your country)
- tell friends
- tell siblings
- tell parents
- tell school / work
- buy clothes
- buy make-up
- watch make-up tutorials on Youtube
- ... whatever you come up with

Then bring them in an order.

Then schedule them or the first steps in your calendar. Scheduling stuff in the calendar really helps with depression and executive dysfunction. Maybe you don't manage it on that day but then you move it to the next day and not to an indefinite point in time. I usually managed to do schrduled things within a week of that date.

Maybe some steps scare you like buying clothes. Write about it here to hear from other trans women how it went for them.

[ivnja]

It seems once again increasingly clear that I should transition, but for whatever reason I can't seem to do it.
Either I'm too scared, or nervous, or straitlaced, or just too damn lazy. Clearly It's easier to suffer and slowly become increasingly alienated from myself rather than lift a finger to do anything about it.
...
And yet I've known about my gender for five years...how does everyone else manage to do something about it once they realize?

I figured myself out about four years ago, as a 25 year old, after a decade of not feeling right with my post-puberty body and twenty years of being uncomfortable with the social roles I was "supposed" to play. Even then, once I knew for sure that I wanted to transition, I didn't take any concrete steps for almost three more years...I really feel you in the first couple lines I quoted. The inaction was miserable, but the idea of actually going through with it was pretty overwhelming. Ultimately, I gave myself a 28th birthday present: I scheduled an appointment with a gender therapist. And after six months, during which time I got my official recommendation and met with the NP who is handling the medical end of things to plan out how to move forward, I was able to give myself my first dose of HRT as a winter solstice present. Eight months later, the physical transition is getting to the point that I'm ready to try going out en femme. If I hadn't treated it as the ultimate gift to myself (and chosen a convenient special occasion to tie it to), I might still be sitting here frustrated with myself for not doing something about it.

I do still have work to do. My voice isn't where I want it yet. I need to schedule laser appointments for my face. I'm still not very good at letting my hips or shoulders relax and move when I walk, so my gait is somewhat more masculine than I'd like. And then I still need to tackle the paperwork for the name and gender marker change, which I'm a little intimidated by. But I've made plenty of small steps that have added up, and I feel pretty good about them. I started going to an LGBT-friendly hairdresser that my therapist recommended once my hair got long enough (I'd been keeping my head shaved, so that took a while). I've slowly started accumulating a wardrobe with the help of some friends who provided cover for me at the stores before I was comfortable going in and shopping by myself (still don't like trying things on in dressing rooms unless they're unisex and the store isn't busy, but I'm at the point that I'm ok with shamelessly picking out sports bras and such). I finally went in to Sephora just this month to get help finding the right concealer for my beard shadow, and the girl who helped me was spectacular about it. And the big one, I've come out to most of the people who are most important to me. Immediate family kind of sucked, I'll admit that, but my friends have been amazing and the extended family I've told have been awesome, too. That in particular has been a rather drawn-out process - I told my immediate family a couple months before I started HRT, and most recently I told two cousins just two weeks ago.

The point in all that is that these things will come, and I think you'll find yourself ready for each different step when it's your time - and there's no schedule you have to be on! There's nothing saying, for example, that you have to progress to a certain point on HRT before presenting as female in public, and not every girl goes on HRT at all. I do recommend finding your reason to take the first step and make an appointment with a gender therapist, since I think you'll likely find that s/he will be able to help you decide where your path will begin going forward.

More importantly, how do I get past my upbringing?

What do you mean by this bit?

[Dr34m(4+(h3r]

It's been a bad few years. I went from having a psychotic break to being diagnosed schizotypal to almost recovering to getting expelled from school due to mental health complications with only two semesters left to graduation, having my credit permanently ruined, and no possibility of continuing college, leading to another psychotic break and a schizoaffective diagnosis, leading to homelessness, and now I'm staying in a shelter where they don't even know what a trans person is and trying to hold down a shitty job at a gas station and trying to decide whether I want to actually live or not. I just finished my application for SSI, so at this rate I have 5-7 months of homelessness before I can even potentially get a real place to live again.

[ivnja]

Hey, I'd actually been wondering recently how you've been doing. I don't know if we've ever directly interacted in the many years we've both been on here, but you've always provided interesting perspectives that are worth reading. I'm really sorry to hear that life has been shitting on you (or, more than it had been already, I guess). Do you have any sort of emotional support system of folks that know you offline?

[Dr34m(4+(h3r]

No

[ivnja]

Sorry to hear that :/ What part of the world are you in these days? We've just gotten our first autumn cool snap here this week. Good riding weather, but it does require a little more bundling.

[Dr34m(4+(h3r]

I'm in Seattle. I ended up sleeping on the street. May get kicked out of the shelter program due to complications, we'll see.

[ivnja]

I'm in Seattle. I ended up sleeping on the street. May get kicked out of the shelter program due to complications, we'll see.

How are you doing tonight? I know this must be an immensely stressful time. Any luck with getting things worked out with either shelter?