Game of Throngs

[Dream]

Also, Pat Mustard clearly fathered Danerys' dream-child.

[Adacore]

On the Tullys and other as-yet-unseen characters (book 3 spoilers):

Spoiler:

It's been stated a few times that they delayed the casting of several characters in order to save money and not have main-cast actors sit around with nothing to do for a full season. I'm pretty sure we're getting Edmure and the Blackfish in season 3 (which is almost definitely going to end with the red wedding). I think they've also cast Jojen and Meera, so Bran's storyline next year might start with meeting them before Osha and Rickon head off south (if they do).

The major question I have from that ending is whether we're going to get Arstan. The subplot with Illyrio sending a ship for Dany hasn't played out yet (with her planning to buy one), but I guess it still could. If we do have Arstan, the big questions become whether we'll get Ian McElhinney back to play him and whether the non-book-readers will recognise him and/or remember who he is.

[lucrezaborgia]

Can someone bury me in a snowbank until the season premier next year? Thanks!

[LaserGuy]

On the Tullys and other as-yet-unseen characters (book 3 spoilers):

Spoiler:

It's been stated a few times that they delayed the casting of several characters in order to save money and not have main-cast actors sit around with nothing to do for a full season. I'm pretty sure we're getting Edmure and the Blackfish in season 3 (which is almost definitely going to end with the red wedding). I think they've also cast Jojen and Meera, so Bran's storyline next year might start with meeting them before Osha and Rickon head off south (if they do).

The major question I have from that ending is whether we're going to get Arstan. The subplot with Illyrio sending a ship for Dany hasn't played out yet (with her planning to buy one), but I guess it still could. If we do have Arstan, the big questions become whether we'll get Ian McElhinney back to play him and whether the non-book-readers will recognise him and/or remember who he is.

Spoiler:

I'm not completely convinced that the Red Wedding will end Season 3. I'm assuming that book 3 will take up most of Seasons 3 and 4, with Joffrey's death coming at the climax of Season 3, and the Red Wedding falling late in Season 4. I think this way works better for some of the other plots that would otherwise have a lot of ground to cover in Season 3 and very little in Season 4 (Arya, most notably).

I think Arstan has to show up. He's a POV character in the books, remember (not till book five, granted). I think it would be a pretty major change from canon not to have him around. When something has been foreshadowed quite a bit earlier in the show, they normally do a flashback to that scene in the intro, which would probably be sufficient to twig people's memories. Maybe.

[quantumcat42]

Spoiler:

I'm not completely convinced that the Red Wedding will end Season 3. I'm assuming that book 3 will take up most of Seasons 3 and 4, with Joffrey's death coming at the climax of Season 3, and the Red Wedding falling late in Season 4. I think this way works better for some of the other plots that would otherwise have a lot of ground to cover in Season 3 and very little in Season 4 (Arya, most notably).

I think Arstan has to show up. He's a POV character in the books, remember (not till book five, granted). I think it would be a pretty major change from canon not to have him around. When something has been foreshadowed quite a bit earlier in the show, they normally do a flashback to that scene in the intro, which would probably be sufficient to twig people's memories. Maybe.

Book 3

Spoiler:

RW happens before Joff's death -- they've time-shifted a few events so far, sure, but I can't imagine that they'd not only change the order of such huge events, but offset the RW by an entire season. They can flesh out some storylines in season 4 with stuff from books 4 and 5 if necessary, but enough happens in 3 that they should have their hands full trying to get everything in anyway. Besides, if we get the RW in season 3, the season 4 closer with Stoneheart will be just that much more WTF.

[LaserGuy]

I suppose you can always inject the Reeds later on...

They've officially announced casting for a number of characters in Season 3, including the Reeds, Stannis' family, and the Tullys.

Casting

David Benioff noted during the airing of the second season that they would delay the introduction of several key characters first appearing in A Clash of Kings until the third season, citing the large number of characters already introduced in season two. Dan Weiss added that they couldn't afford to have people "waiting around" for their characters to become central to the plot.[6]

According to Entertainment Weekly, Benioff and Weiss confirmed that the following characters will be cast for season 3 along with "a few others":[7]

Mance Rayder, the Wildling "King beyond the Wall"
Tormund Giantsbane, a Wildling raider
Daario Naharis, a Tyroshi mercenary captain
Jojen and Meera Reed, two young Crannogman siblings
Edmure Tully, Catelyn Stark's brother and head of House Tully
Brynden Tully, the "Blackfish", Catelyn's uncle
Selyse Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon's wife
Shireen Baratheon, their daughter; cast with Kerry Ingram[8]
Olenna Redwyne, the "Queen of Thorns", Margaery and Loras Tyrell's grandmother
Beric Dondarrion, the leader of the "Brotherhood without Banners" (the character already appeared briefly in a scene in season 1)
Thoros of Myr, a red priest with the Brotherhood

[Dark567]

So I totally didn't realize until now that Jorah is Lord Mormont's son. D'oh.

[CorruptUser]

Season 3

Spoiler:

Wait, Mance wasn't in the beginning of Season 1?

[Diadem]

Season 3

Spoiler:

Wait, Mance wasn't in the beginning of Season 1?

Spoiler:

You mean the opening scene of S1E1? No, those are Others, or at least their doing. I think the idea is that others create zombies, but aren't themselves.

Mance is a normal human. A nightwatch deserter who joined the wildlings and kinda became their leader. The wildlings are normal humans too, not allied to the Others or anything. They just live beyond the wall, but like doing raids, so they are considered enemies.

The wall was built against the Others, but these days mostly everybody thinks they are a myth, and the wall is just to keep wildlings out.

[JudeMorrigan]

Season 3

Spoiler:

Wait, Mance wasn't in the beginning of Season 1?

Spoiler:

You mean the opening scene of S1E1? No, those are Others, or at least their doing. I think the idea is that others create zombies, but aren't themselves.

Mance is a normal human. A nightwatch deserter who joined the wildlings and kinda became their leader. The wildlings are normal humans too, not allied to the Others or anything. They just live beyond the wall, but like doing raids, so they are considered enemies.

The wall was built against the Others, but these days mostly everybody thinks they are a myth, and the wall is just to keep wildlings out.

He might have meant (relatively minor book spoiler):

Spoiler:

at the feast where Ned welcomed King Robert. In theory, Mance should have been there, but I'd totally give the producers a pass on "he just wasn't on-screen". Unless there was someone there who was obviously supposed to be Mance. It's been a while since I watched the episode, and don't really recall one way or the other.

[Obby]

He might have meant (relatively minor book spoiler):

Spoiler:

at the feast where Ned welcomed King Robert. In theory, Mance should have been there, but I'd totally give the producers a pass on "he just wasn't on-screen". Unless there was someone there who was obviously supposed to be Mance. It's been a while since I watched the episode, and don't really recall one way or the other.

Woah wait, what?

Spoiler:

Was that in the book? I don't remember Mance being at the feast at all, I thought he was already "King Beyond the Wall" at that point?

[LaserGuy]

Spoiler:

at the feast where Ned welcomed King Robert. In theory, Mance should have been there, but I'd totally give the producers a pass on "he just wasn't on-screen". Unless there was someone there who was obviously supposed to be Mance. It's been a while since I watched the episode, and don't really recall one way or the other.

Season 3 speculation...

Spoiler:

Well, it's possible that did this, I suppose. I mean, Lord Beric did have a 10 second non-speaking cameo in Season 1 and hasn't been seen since. Presumably, they didn't make a big production out of it so nobody would notice if the actor ended up changing later. It could be the same with Mance, that he was just an extra in the pilot. I don't think it it terribly likely because probably nobody would have noticed either way.

Woah wait, what?

Book spoiler

Spoiler:

Mance tells Jon Snow that "they had met before" when Mance sneaked over the wall and went down to Winterfell to see King Robert. I believe he was disguised as a bard; I don't know if he was ever actually identified as any particular person at the party in book 1 though. There's a great line just afterwards, when Mance asks Jon why he should trust him, and Jon says something to the effect of "You were there when the king arrived, so you saw my family sitting at the head table with the king and his court; my brother Robb, my sisters, even the baby. Did you see where I was seated? Did you see where they put the bastard?"

[gmalivuk]

Avoided this thread for awhile since I hadn't caught up on the show, so these start from a few pages ago.

On divergences in general, though, I agree with Adacore that they're not all that bad. Sure, some lead to slightly out-of-character weirdness like Arya and Tywin's interactions

I dunno. Latest episode [ep 8 I believe] spoiler:

Spoiler:

The fact that she was saving up her #3, and lost it, and then pulled off the clever bit, worked reasonably well. And the reason why she didn't use it earlier is that she is learning things, and didn't think that she would be blindsided and lose her chance at it... You'll note that #1 was a "poor wish" (a test wish, effectively), and #2 was a wish of desperation. She saved #3 for Tywin, but waited too long... and decided to get clever with it.

Yeah, I think they ended up tying that up nicely, as with most of the other differences I'd worried about within the second book/season itself. (Which is to say, other ones don't need to be resolved for plot reasons yet until one of the next couple of seasons.)

Awesome episode all around. Very interesting that they completely cut out all the other story lines, and focusses exclusively on this one. It worked very well. They really pulled off a lot of great battle scenes on a very little budget. That wild fire explosion looked awesome.

I loved the contrast between Stannis and Joffrey. With the onion knight in a very nice role early on, the only one in Stannis' army who didn't assume the battle was won before it started. In the book the opening scene of the battle is described from his point of view, and ends as he's blasted into the water, with everything burning around him. The show made it slightly less panicky, but it still worked.

What made the show awesome was that one part of you wants the city to fall, while another wants it to hold. I want to see Joffrey burn, but I don't want to see Tyrion lose. You want Davos Seaworth to have a happy ending, but you don't want Stannis on the iron throne either. Though he's better than Joffrey, of course. Some many conflicting interests, all you can do is watch and wait what happens.

Agreed on pretty much all counts. I would have liked to see Tyrion's full plan from the book come to fruition, but obviously that (along with most of the other details of the battle, such as fighting on a bridge of burning shipwrecks and so on) would have been even more expensive to do than the episode already was. I was rooting somewhat more for Stannis in the book, but in the show I think Varys puts into excellent perspective why anyone interested in protecting the realm as a whole (which includes him as well as presumably most of the audience) shouldn't hope too strongly for either side to win. Joffrey is a completely shit king, but Stannis is quite literally in bed with some pretty powerful supernatural forces, so his ruling Westeros probably wouldn't be too great, either.

Regarding the Hound and fire, it was explained in the first season that he got burned by his brother when they were children, so there is more than just his appearance to suggest he might have issues. I agree though that in the show the depth of that fear wasn't as apparent, without someone (Tyrion, I think) beleatedly realizing to himself that everything being on fire is why the Hound got weird.

I also really liked Sansa in that episode (still talking about 9, I believe), both with the Hound and earlier with Cersei. I think the show has done a better job than the books making sure to consistently humanize Cersei. Yeah, she has her flaws, and those flaws have incredibly dire and far-reaching implications, but at the same time they're fairly understandable given her life so far. And her scene with Tommem in the throne room was amazing.
---
Speculation about next season (Book 3 spoilers):

Spoiler:

Though according to someone else's post they've been auditioning for the relevant characters, I feel like the events of the Red Wedding could be suitably mirrored even without them. It could even still be a wedding, just some already-introduced-but-minor guy in Robb's entourage instead of Edmure.

I'm glad the Reeds will turn up, but I worry that sending Rickon and Osha in a different direction will either result in their hiatus from the show for a bit (as they have from the books), or making up some stuff to show them doing in the meantime, which can't be super plot relevant without spoiling stuff we still don't know by the end of book 5, like where they actually went.

[JudeMorrigan]

Yeah, what laserguy said.

Spoiler:

I also don't particularly recall there being anyone in book 1 that you could look back at and so, "Oh, *that* was Mance." Hence my thinking it'd be perfectly reasonable for his to have "been at the feast" in the show even if the actor was never on screen.

[johnie104]

Something I noticed in episode 9: The soldiers in the ships of Stannis where wearing heavy armor. Doesn't Davos have a line in the book that states that anyone that wears armor on a ship is very stupid?
Aside from that: I was impressed with how big budget everything looked. Especially the green explosion. I mean, they have had some bad special effects this season (the wolfs), but that explosion was just awesome.

And was anyones internal version of The Rains of Castamere also completely different from the one in the show? On a similar note, I hope they have a rendition of "The Bear and the Maiden fair" in the show. It is featured quite prominently in the books.

Book spoilers:

Spoiler:

On the show Shae comes over as way more honest about her 'love'. I wonder if the show writers are really going the way of the book with her character.
On a seperate note, from the wikipedia page of the third season:
"According to Benioff, the third season will contain a particularly memorable scene from A Storm of Swords, the prospect of filming which was part of their motivation to adapt the novels for television in the first place."
Is it just me, or can this only be the Red Wedding?

[Diadem]

Book spoilers:

Spoiler:

On the show Shae comes over as way more honest about her 'love'. I wonder if the show writers are really going the way of the book with her character.
On a seperate note, from the wikipedia page of the third season:
"According to Benioff, the third season will contain a particularly memorable scene from A Storm of Swords, the prospect of filming which was part of their motivation to adapt the novels for television in the first place."
Is it just me, or can this only be the Red Wedding?

Spoiler:

Which other? The Red Wedding defines the series.

[pseudoidiot]

Continued book spoilers.

Spoiler:

Yeah, in 5 books I can't think of any scene as memorable as the Red Wedding.

[Adam H]

To the book thread!

[Diadem]

Continued book spoilers.

Spoiler:

Yeah, in 5 books I can't think of any scene as memorable as the Red Wedding.

More book spoilers. Big ones (about book 3 still).

Spoiler:

The reason it's so memorable (and defines the series) is because it's such a big break from genre, and from your expectations as a reader. It's the point where as a reader you realize that the author is willing to take this idea of character-driven fantasy (as opposed to plot driven) all the way, and that all bets are off regarding the outcome. No one has plot immunity.

A Game of Thrones is grim and realistic. We already knew that, but the red wedding is scene that really drives it home.

[LaserGuy]

Remember in Season 1 where Joffrey was showing Sansa some decapitated heads? Apparently one of them was George W. Bush.

[CorruptUser]

Nothing political there. Nope. *Whistles*

Using Bush as the head isn't edgy or ballsy or anything like that; use JFK's head if you want to prove to me that you have balls.

[Jave D]

The production company just had extra props from the never released They saved Bush's brain.

Little known fact, Ser George of House Bush is a minor character in the first book. I'm surprised everyone else missed that.

They used Jimmy Carter's head for the head of the Septa.

Originally Jimmy Carter was going to play her role too, but budget concerns.

[Ryom]

Westeros recreated in minecraft

[Felstaff]

The actual fuck? I'm jealous and concerned in equal measure. Can you download this? (and the texture pack, I presume, that is needed)

[Ryom]

No idea, I don't know if you can get contact info for the uploader if you register on imgur or not.

[JudeMorrigan]

I know ign recently had an article on them. I just looked at the pretty pictures since I don't have minecraft, but it might be worth checking to see if it had more info than that.

[Sprocket]

I am really getting quite sick of watching Draco Malfoy be quite so disgusting. We get it. He's really sick in the head. I really do not need to see it so graphically portrayed.

I was just thinking about that "ice zombies on the move" scene at the end of this season. So bad ass. The build up to "Holy shit there are a lot of these fuckers, and some of them seem more powerful, sentient, and old than the rest!"
Having not read the rest I am a we bit confused why saying you saw white walkers was punishable by death. Headless Ned is rolling in his grave now.

[gmalivuk]

Seeing them isn't punishable by death. Running away from your duties at the Wall is.

[IcedT]

Also, in the books that deserter who saw them was hysterical. He didn't look up calmly at Ned and say "I know what I saw," he died like a crazy person and nobody heard his story.

Just one of those really minor changes that puts things into a very different light.

[Ended]

The actual fuck? I'm jealous and concerned in equal measure. Can you download this? (and the texture pack, I presume, that is needed)

For your enjoyment: http://mc.westeroscraft.com/

[Felstaff]

Thanks,

I've just found out that, for the new series, the part of Thoros (one of the Brotherhood Without Banners who were firstly sent out to capture Gregor Clegane, but then started protecting the riverlands from the Lannisters) will be played by Paul Kaye, which struck me as

For those outside of England, Paul Kaye's alter-ego is Dennis Pennis, a brutally honest and obnoxious interviewer of famous people. He was also on an MTV show I didn't particularly care about much called Strutter.

[TommyRiordan]

The heights of politics shown in this series is amazing and very inspiring.

[Adam H]

I'm hosting a game of mafia based on Game of Thrones, if anyone is interested. You can request to play as your favorite character! And there are oh so many to choose from, aren't there...

To signup you can PM me, click the link in my sig, or go to the mafia subforum and figure it out from there.

[LaserGuy]

Season 3 launch is this Sunday. And there was much rejoicing.

Also death.

[Lucrece]

Melisandre and Cersei, my cunt role models are back ;D. Such a delight. Melisandre's exchange was so cruel.

[LaserGuy]

Have to say... I think Season 3 Episode 2 could well be one of the top five in the series. Well written, very plot-dense and sets up a lot of the major arcs for this season, only one scene (Tyrion's, surprisingly) that really felt a little off-key, while the rest were pitch-perfect.

I'm really loving how the Tyrells are being portrayed in the show--probably better in the show than in the books, in fact, since they don't have a POV in the books, so everything you learn about them is kind of second-hand and filtered through the eyes of other characters. Loras, Margaery, and the grandmother Olenna are all brilliant (esp. the latter two in this episode).

[Mat]

Yeah, Tyrion didn't really need to be in the episode, and it was a bit exposition-y in places, but overall it was a pretty good episode. That scene with Sansa and the Tyrells was wonderful.

I still feel like they try to cram too many characters into an episode though sometimes. I would much rather they focused on a few characters but covered more per episode.

Spoiler:

Robb's storyline especially - it's hard to get a sense of what's happening at the moment, because we're just getting these short scenes that don't appear to move the plot forward. It's not like things aren't happening, it's just that we don't see any consequences for one or two episodes so it feels a bit aimless.

I like how Catelyn's dreamcatcher mumbo jumbo showed a bit of the cultural difference between Robb's wife and the Westerosi, but they lost me at the Jon Snow stuff, which just didn't feel believable, and I don't think they emphasised the whole "sons probably dead" thing enough.

[Chen]

They should have cut out the Wall stuff in this episode. Jon and Sam's scene didn't really put any new plot points forward and would have worked better if they had saved them for when they could have had a longer set of scenes.

[Intrigued]

Spoiler:

Robb's storyline especially - it's hard to get a sense of what's happening at the moment, because we're just getting these short scenes that don't appear to move the plot forward. It's not like things aren't happening, it's just that we don't see any consequences for one or two episodes so it feels a bit aimless.

I like how Catelyn's dreamcatcher mumbo jumbo showed a bit of the cultural difference between Robb's wife and the Westerosi, but they lost me at the Jon Snow stuff, which just didn't feel believable, and I don't think they emphasised the whole "sons probably dead" thing enough.

book and show spoilers

Spoiler:

I feel like that's kind of how I remember it in the books, though, anyway. Even less involved though, since it seemed like we would mostly hear about Rob fighting in some battle or another, but it was generally through the frame of reference of someone far away, so it was hard to say what was rumors and what was true.

the wall scene/hinted at future book spoiler

Spoiler:

I don't know, I think this scene fit. It was a necessary scene at some point, and it keeps you up with where they are and the general mood. It might have fit better in the episode where he earns his new title, but it may just have not fit that way (no other scenes they wanted to bring into this episode without messing with the flow even more).

[Zohar]

I was a bit annoyed at the end of this episode. I really dislike random coincidences, and this one appears really out of nowhere. Did this happen in the books this way as well? No future spoilers please

Sansa's scene was great, and I'm liking what's-her-name, the girl from Tyrell. She's pretty mischievous. Arya stays my favorite character. I think Jon is one of my least favorites. But he's so dreamy!