Meta discussion

[t1mm01994]

I second Snark's motions. Things to note:
- it'll be a claimfest.
- Lategame will majorly resemble a logic puzzle
- I will play it.

[Snark]

To help prevent a claimfest, you could turn the vanilla scum into a roleblocker or have only 1 detective. Not sure if this is necessary or would make it overpowered for scum.

Maybe 14 people - 1 mafia RBer, 1 mafia framer, 1 mafia nurse, 2 detectives, 3 coroners, and 6 vanilla townies.

Claimfest would cause 1 mafia to claim coroner and 2 to claim VT. Elevates towns chances of lynching correctly D1 from 3/14 to 1/4 or 2/8 which isn't a huge improvement at all. Plus the detectives get NK'd and RB'd the first night, and a detective and a coroner get NK'd and RB'd the following night.

This setup may work better without the RBer or with more or less VT, but I think the numbers I gave are at least reasonable.

[Misnomer]

I'd say it's probably a little much for the vanilla queue and would be better placed in whatever-we're-calling-12-player-games-these-days. That aside, looks like it's got the makings of a pretty decent game.

[UniqueScreenname]

I've never played a really big game before. Would Keys to the Kingdom be too much for me? I also am flavorblind.

[tastelikecoke]

I have an idea for the game that involves existence, inspired by reading 1984. Say, when a person is lynched, he doesn't just die, every vote and action he performed would be erased from existence. This can enable players to be unlynched, relynched, and many more weird things. I bet a paradox wouldn't happen if the erasing order is followed correctly.

There could also be time travellers who can change their votes from the past, and cats who can extend town's voting power (a townie has a cat, and the cat can vote, kind of a crazy equivalent of double voting), and mafia could also erase people from existence, but that's just some random ideas.

The problem with this setup is, it's too experimental and it would be a puzzle to balance it or even to make it winnable since the dead and alive would rapidly change throughout the game, but maybe with a bit of work the game can be playable, plus it can perfectly work if the game is bastardry.

[lynx]

It'd be pretty bastarldly but maybe you could be Big Brother and have agents to help you win. Thought police would be listeners, and town could be the free thinking people. I haven't read the book for a while but maybe if scum only had what you told them it'd be a balanced game. You could maybe out a townie every now and then to help scum. Maybe only tell scum about it although that'd be a bit redundant. Having never modded a game I couldn't say what was balanced though,

[Elvish Pillager]

You'd need a different lynching rule - after all, what if someone is hammered, then a person on the wagon gets erased? (Like if they self-voted, for that matter? ) You'd just be looking back at an... incomplete day.

I'd say make there be no hammering, only deadline lynches. And dead players can vote and be voted for (it just doesn't count unless there has to be a reset and they become alive).

Maybe make it so that roles aren't revealed on death, but the mafia are required to choose someone to execute the kill each night, so that they can be incriminated if they get lynched and their victims inexplicably become alive again.

The roles should be pretty vanilla, since the rules will be so complicated already.

[BoomFrog]

I've never played a really big game before. Would Keys to the Kingdom be too much for me? I also am flavorblind.

larger games can be more confusing but also easier as you can get away with lurking more. I think you should be fine. (not that Im recommending lurking. :p )

Anyway, I came here to note my thoughts on mafia daychat. I think it makes the game more fun since scum can coordinate trickyness which opens up more fun lying. Also it helps smooth out the swingyness of have a wide range of skill levels. Experienced scum can coach noob scum from D1. Also having only day chat and no night chat for scum definitely speeds night up which is more fun for everyone.

However, both my games have had scum win, I think scum played well and earned their wins but Im wondering if day chat is helping them more then I expected.

[Krong]

I think the theoretical reason why daychat is a really strong power for scum is that it allows you to review each others' posts before submitting them. Basically, you type up a post, then send it to your teammates, who check it over and suggest edits to make it look less scummy and/or dangerous to your team. In practice... I think I've seen it done for 2 or 3 posts ever. It's just too much of a hassle for people to bother with it.

Speaking of hassles, nightchat does tend to encourage a development of code systems, especially when scum has an investigative role of some sort. (It's weird, usually I'm the one instigating codes, but I don't especially enjoy them. It's just that they're so effective.)

What generally seems to work best is allowing daychat in games with day actions, and restricting it to nightchat otherwise. The more daytime craziness there is, the more it seems fair to let scum coordinate on it as it happens.

[Vieto]

I have an idea for the game that involves existence, inspired by reading 1984. Say, when a person is lynched, he doesn't just die, every vote and action he performed would be erased from existence. This can enable players to be unlynched, relynched, and many more weird things. I bet a paradox wouldn't happen if the erasing order is followed correctly.

There could also be time travellers who can change their votes from the past, and cats who can extend town's voting power (a townie has a cat, and the cat can vote, kind of a crazy equivalent of double voting), and mafia could also erase people from existence, but that's just some random ideas.

The problem with this setup is, it's too experimental and it would be a puzzle to balance it or even to make it winnable since the dead and alive would rapidly change throughout the game, but maybe with a bit of work the game can be playable, plus it can perfectly work if the game is bastardry.

I tried something like this with Dr. Who mafia (the time travel thing, not the Big Brother thing). Reviewing it may help to see what worked, and what didn't. I'm probably not going to attempt it again soon, I think having player actions undone in the past is a great idea in concept, but tricky to get working.

[flarpfreak]

I was just wondering if anyone wanted to take on a Co-mod for one of the soon to be games.

[cjdrum]

So, in case any of you haven't already figured it out,
[username] and I are one and the same.

I'm planning on finishing Zombies and K2TK as [u] and phase into being cjdrum again - please bear with me if I post as the wrong one in any game! The problem should be eliminated by the end of Keys to the Kingdom.

That is all.

[Snark]

So, in case any of you haven't already figured it out,
[username] and I are one and the same.

I'm planning on finishing Zombies and K2TK as [u] and phase into being cjdrum again - please bear with me if I post as the wrong one in any game! The problem should be eliminated by the end of Keys to the Kingdom.

That is all.

Thank god. The UniqueScreenname, New User, [username] brigade was getting difficult to cope with. 2 will be a lot easier to handle.

No offense meant to any one person's username. It's just that all 3 combined was overwhelming.

[KrO2]

So, in case any of you haven't already figured it out,
[username] and I are one and the same.

I'm planning on finishing Zombies and K2TK as [u] and phase into being cjdrum again - please bear with me if I post as the wrong one in any game! The problem should be eliminated by the end of Keys to the Kingdom.

That is all.

And I was wondering whether you and cjquines were the same person, because, well, cj, and, well, quine. Nice to know I'm not just wrong but definitively and completely wrong.

[Adam H]

That gives me a ridiculous idea for a game. Every player has to create a new username and play the same game with two different roles. Hilarity ensues!

Worst idea ever? Making people create a new username might be a pandora's box we don't want to open...

If there were 7 players with 2 accounts each, would that be a small or a large? It's definitely not a medium, I guess.

[mpolo]

We've had games with alt accounts before. The forum moderators can get them set up so that they can post links and such. Of course people always end up posting "out of character" by not checking what they're logged in as. They can be fun, in that they remove the meta aspect, but frustrating, for pretty much the same reason.

[Lataro]

We've had games with alt accounts before. The forum moderators can get them set up so that they can post links and such. Of course people always end up posting "out of character" by not checking what they're logged in as. They can be fun, in that they remove the meta aspect, but frustrating, for pretty much the same reason.

Soon.... So Soon....

[Adam H]

Hehe sweet.

[Snark]

I would love to play that kind of game. Trying to guess who's who even though it's irrelevant. Love it.

[Adam H]

OK, I think I'll be putting a Game of Thrones mafia game into the large queue when a spot opens up. If anyone wants to comod, let me know (it'll be a while before the game starts, obviously).

The setup will be mostly open. I will list all characters, and give multiple (probably just two) possible abilities for each character. I might do what Vieto did in Avengers and let players pick between them, or I might just do it myself so the game is easier to balance.

Then I will randomize the scum/town/3rd party factions so that any character can be aligned with any other character. Therefore, the game will almost certainly not resemble the story at all - Cercei, Ned, and Jonah could be scummates together. This seems to me the best way to do a GoT game, at least at this point in time - 1) it avoids spoilers (very important IMO), 2) the GoT characters are about as morally gray as protagonists and antagonists can get, 3) at any given point in the story the factions are almost unrecognizable anyways, and 4) it's the most elegant solution to massclaiming. Basically, if there is any theme that is conducive to randomized factions, it's GoT.

Or, instead of being completely random, I might randomize it 2-3 times and then pick the setup that is least absurd.

Thoughts?

[t1mm01994]

An Adam game? I'm in.

I think I'll try to host an alt-game soon... I'm just thinking I'll make the sign-ups secret too. With some strings and ideas here and there, I think things might get interesting.

[Snark]

OK, I think I'll be putting a Game of Thrones mafia game into the large queue when a spot opens up. If anyone wants to comod, let me know (it'll be a while before the game starts, obviously).

The setup will be mostly open. I will list all characters, and give multiple (probably just two) possible abilities for each character. I might do what Vieto did in Avengers and let players pick between them, or I might just do it myself so the game is easier to balance.

Then I will randomize the scum/town/3rd party factions so that any character can be aligned with any other character. Therefore, the game will almost certainly not resemble the story at all - Cercei, Ned, and Jonah could be scummates together. This seems to me the best way to do a GoT game, at least at this point in time - 1) it avoids spoilers (very important IMO), 2) the GoT characters are about as morally gray as protagonists and antagonists can get, 3) at any given point in the story the factions are almost unrecognizable anyways, and 4) it's the most elegant solution to massclaiming. Basically, if there is any theme that is conducive to randomized factions, it's GoT.

Or, instead of being completely random, I might randomize it 2-3 times and then pick the setup that is least absurd.

Thoughts?

I swear that I thought of this idea while brainstorming about LOTR mafia. That being said, sounds like a good idea.

An Adam game? I'm in.

I think I'll try to host an alt-game soon... I'm just thinking I'll make the sign-ups secret too. With some strings and ideas here and there, I think things might get interesting.

Fun, fun, fun.

[_infina_]

We've had games with alt accounts before. The forum moderators can get them set up so that they can post links and such. Of course people always end up posting "out of character" by not checking what they're logged in as. They can be fun, in that they remove the meta aspect, but frustrating, for pretty much the same reason.

Oh god, don't remind me.

[New User]

OK, I think I'll be putting a Game of Thrones mafia game into the large queue when a spot opens up. If anyone wants to comod, let me know (it'll be a while before the game starts, obviously).

I would like to co-mod that, Adam, unless there is a newbie co-mod queue of which I am unaware.

[roband]

I would be way too excited to play, to mod Sounds awesome.

[wam]

Is it a bad thing that I am insticintivally suspicous of people who post in the discussion thread without posting in the game thread?

I also find people who post in the discussion thread first and then don't post in the game thread suspicous as that normally suggest to me they have a cool role.

[UniqueScreenname]

Yeah, it's not really a good idea, because there could be anything in there. I tend to post in there as soon as I get my PM no matter what role I have.

[eculc]

Yeah, it's not really a good idea, because there could be anything in there. I tend to post in there as soon as I get my PM no matter what role I have.

pretty much this (after confirming in the game thread, of course)

[wam]

I do try not to do it and with regards to the first post, cool roles does include town power roles.

[tastelikecoke]

Anyone can suggest a flavor for a game? Preferably something you can just paste on the setup without changing it. I have some ideas already, but it would be cool to have the flavor coming from the player's ideas.

[New User]

Anyone can suggest a flavor for a game? Preferably something you can just paste on the setup without changing it. I have some ideas already, but it would be cool to have the flavor coming from the player's ideas.

I'm a fan of mythology and folklore. There are a ton of colorful characters to choose from various mythologies of the world, both ancient and modern. Here are some ideas:
-Greek mythology. It's already been done, but there is so much available to choose from.
-Norse mythology.
-Hindu mythology. Admittedly I don't know much about it.
-Judeo-Christian mythology. There's a lot more out there than just what's in the Bible. Paradise Lost, for example, is one of the most well-received works of Bible fan-fiction of all time, and has characters from various world mythologies mixed in. We see Typhon interacting with Satan, for example.
-Fairy tales. Hans Christian Andersen, Brothers Grimm, Uncle Remus, Aesop, that sort of thing. It's easy to mix the characters from these together like we see in the Shrek movies.

[Adam H]

Anyone can suggest a flavor for a game? Preferably something you can just paste on the setup without changing it. I have some ideas already, but it would be cool to have the flavor coming from the player's ideas.

Mafia is a game of spy-assassins. Sometimes themed games don't end up making much sense because they get away from this. So if you don't have a theme in mind, the game works with any organization (government, business, band of noble thieves, military battalion, sports team?, etc.), that finds out it's been infiltrated by dangerous enemies. It could be in any setting (medieval, sci-fi, fantasy, modern, absurd).

To pick one at random, a futuristic band of soldiers are sent off by their evil superiors to do some unsavory things to citizens. They choose to abandon the mission and run, but some loyalist soldiers try to kill the noble deserters and return to their corrupt government as heroes.

Ooo this is a fun game. Here's another one: An absurd sports team (this is going to be hard easy). An innocent game of hopscotch goes horribly wrong when one boy falls and breaks his neck. But the hopscotchers realize that the boy was hypnotized into killing himself by demon fairies who have taken the form of children and could be any one of them. The children form a firing squad and organize a system of voting and lynching, naturally.

[ahammel]

Anyone can suggest a flavor for a game? Preferably something you can just paste on the setup without changing it. I have some ideas already, but it would be cool to have the flavor coming from the player's ideas.

Twin Peaks

[Vieto]

demon fairies who have taken the form of children and could be any one of them.

I suddenly want to incorporate this somehow into Zork mafia. </shameless advertising>

[BoomFrog]

A band of hipsters just trying to fly to the moon find that they have been infiltrated by unicorns.

They fight crime.

[wam]

Well im currently running a game where all the flavour is based around a dinner party. So I guess that shows you can pretty much choose any setting. You just need to think laterally to make it work.... Personally I quite like games with a flavour that you can do analysis as I feel it helps on D1 but I do hate mass roleclaims.

[Angua]

Battleship mafia. Or maybe Hungry, Hungry Hippo mafia.

[Vieto]

Samuel L. Jackson mafia. Every Samuel L. Jackson character, one mafia game.
.
.
.
also, they are in the Metal Gear Solid plane of reality.

[roband]

Samuel L. Jackson mafia. Every Samuel L. Jackson character, one mafia game.
.
.
.
also, they are in the Metal Gear Solid plane of reality.

Holy shit. Someone needs to do this. I don't know what a MGS plane of reality is, but SLJ needs to be honoured.

[wam]

Samuel L. Jackson mafia. Every Samuel L. Jackson character, one mafia game.
.
.
.
also, they are in the Metal Gear Solid plane of reality.

Holy shit. Someone needs to do this. I don't know what a MGS plane of reality is, but SLJ needs to be honoured.

Can I sign up now!