Zcorp wrote:Do you really believe that we don't teach values in schools? I never stated that parents aren't involved. I did however state that schools shape culture and that they should.
I'll ask again, "How do you perceive school as not massively shaping culture?"
I believe the scope in which we teach values is rather narrow and confined to parental consensus. The values we teach are those that every family already accepts in their home. We don't tend to teach, for example, the value of austerity and foregoing personal benefit for the sake of passing it up to others, because some parents would flip their shit and make life miserable for the administrators until that lesson is removed.
Sex ed is a good example of how limited we are in teaching values -- the school will try to stay away from ethics as much as possible for their own sake.
Are you a parent or a teacher? I ask as I'm confused how you hold this perception. How much time do you think parents spend interacting with their child per day? How much time do you think teachers spend interacting with their students per day?
How much time did you spend with your parents and family relative to your teacher? Do you have a parent that stayed home at one point?
You've never met or had a teacher that has had an impact on a child without the parents oking it first through legal channels? It would greatly surprise me if you actually believe any of what you just said.
You're going about it the wrong way. It's not whether parental permission is initially required -- it's whether there's parental approval and disapproval after the fact. Do you believe children don't discuss with their parents what they are taught in school? When a child gets a syllabus he needs materials for, do you think parents don't go through said syllabus?
As for teachers struggling to meet academic standards now, I'll say again that we should give teachers better training, more freedom and pay them more. Much of the teaching problem poorly trained, non-tech savvy teachers restricted by inefficient systems and weighed down by bureaucracy.
We should. We should. We should. The problem is what you're asking of teachers NOW while they don't have what you suggest they should get.
So you believe people should always follow the establishment, even when it is failing at its goals and harming the well-being of those it is imposing its authority upon?
You are free to disobey an establishment if you somehow think a tucked in shirt is such an affront to your existence, but you have never been immune to the consequences of failure to comply with behavioral codes available to you prior before your parent enrolls you in school, codes which your parent --legally entitled to make choices for you-- approves of. You'll have to convince me that disallowing wearing whatever the hell you want to school is abusive or harmful in any way to a student.
You are under the impression that the average parent has the time and ability to become an expert on all things school related and dictate how schools should behave? What is it that you do? Do you think anyone could become an expert on it while they have a full time job, a relationship and a child? If so, how long do you suppose that will take someone?
You seem to be under the impression that having a job and a relationship turns the "average" parent into an incompetent and negligent guardian disinterested and unwilling to participate in the education of his/her child. It is your impression that checking the material your child is given, attending the occassional PTA, and spending time with them doing homework is some uphill task that few parents can muster.
Difficulty is besides the point? No actually that was one of my points and it is directly related to your position. Ignoring the logistics of something is idiotic. You really think we should ignore how practical something is when making arguments? Not to mention the reality of these students or their parents to have the awareness to do such a thing.
Logistics is a problem when the practicality of risking citation for wanting to wear whatever you want as a minor in a public institution is fine? So the administration changing their policy based on the popularity of their policies among the student body made up of minors is any more practical?
I'm interested as to how all parents think the same way and how any of the above is a good thing? These are perfect examples of when and why to defy authority. We shouldn't be following Tennessee's example and if our states do so hopefully we aren't to meek to accept it because the 'authority' told us to.
You can defy authority all you want, but the manner in which you defy it determines the outcome. So does picking your battles. When students are protesting the requirement to wear a uniform, ignoring administrative measures to the point of ending with citation isn't a way to win votes from the people who vote on such decisions. These students had other options to lobby parents on why the uniform is harmful to them and it should be removed. Instead, they choose the blowhard way. And are enraged when they're met with the blowhard response.
Tiberius wrote:Oh my gosh! A thread about Lucrece projecting his own personal issues onto something else!
You seem really preoccupied with the rights of people you identify with and no one else's. Elections are not the only things that check back rights abuses. That's why we have the supreme court. If the president just started arbitrarily executing people on TV you wouldn't say "Well I guess I won't be voting for him next time." Your "me and mine by any means necessary" is extremist and insensitive.
Yeah, you're so mature and above it all. Dismiss other people by psychoanalizing them via an internet forum and deeming their position the result of "personal issues". The bolded part is just gold in its placement within that post of yours. Rights of the parents, rights of the students to not suffer class disruption, rights of the students who feel their first amendment right is violated by uniform and proceed to cause class disruption. You seem to only care for one group.
You're even claiming that this is a rights abuse. I'll ask you to provide a source of any federal court ruling striking down this particular instance of uniform implementation.