xkcd

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:53 pm UTC

Abit of analysis -

Spoiler:

There are two reasons for this vote. The first is that Lorenz was the one caught out on both lies (Ibarra could have let them slip, not drawing attention D1). The second is that Lorenz didn't eat the carrot and that sort of cautious play stopped us from gaining information. Although Ibarra's not come away looking perfect, I think Lorenz looks a lot worse at the moment.

Vote: Lorenz

Ninjaed - That's 2/2/2.

@Wei: I agree that it was a weird reason to claim, but with a role like Ibarras whoever recieved the vegetable would most likely have claimed getting it anyway. The PM includes Ibarra's name, so they know who sent it. Very little reason to keep it a secret (at least that would have been my attitude).

@Ibarra: Did you know the true effect of the carrot? Would it have caused poison or good health? Do you get to choose? Given that you know the effects of the vegetables, do you have any choice in what they do?

by **Lorenz** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:13 pm UTC

About Lorenz, I really don't understand how it sounds too good to be true. It says any action. not any night action. You said yourself you have an action that's not night. You would still be unable to carry out that action. How is it too good to be true?

Let me rephrase that. my power is passive. I can perform no actions, be it night or any kind.

by **webby** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:13 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:The... What weirdness?

cjdrum wrote:1. One person said Harvest Moon may be scum
2. No one said Harvet Moon was scum
π. No one knew you were Harvest Moon
6. No one said you may be scum
5. No one said you were scum

a) The person would be told they are in a castle (I mean, seriously, who knows what the mod's gonna tell you), and
b) The person would want to claim that they are actually not what they are.
b.5) Kinda like Iago in Othello, but kinda really not
b.7) Also, flavour-bad-guy said that he's not stupid enough to just let us look and see who's missing, so I doubt he would tell the decoy, "Hey, you're a decoy, just don't tell anyone, lol!" - it's a lot easier to keep a secret you don't know.

That weirdness. Write a normal numbered list please.

But that's a minor thing.

I'm inclined to believe Ibarra here, his story makes more sense. That doesn't mean I definitely think Lorenz is scum, but I don't see any better option for the lynch today, so for me it's Lorenz or Lataro (which I assume is effectively No Lynch, but would apparently give e_e her win).

Not going to put Lorenz at L-1 yet though, there's still time in the day.

by **Ibarra** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:08 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:You start by claiming as soon as your game gets a bit of rolespec suspicion. Then you give a carrot to Lorenz. Then Lorenz does what he claims is a gambit, then you claim that "no, mine was a trap". Gambits are often not what Townies do. Traps are what scum set.

Gambits and traps can both be done by scum and town. Where did you get the false notion that only scum gambit/set traps?

weiyaoli wrote:Why this way? This way is clumsy and prone to errors. (why did you chose Lorenz and what did you even expect to prove with it?) You didn't even know he would bother posting the effects, so meanwhile you've been spreading wine everywhere about your ability. You've claimed early (for the wrong reasons I may add) to precisely be open about your role to reduce wine.

I picked Lorenz randomly. I actually didn't think I would get a reaction like this at first. I concealed my knowledge of knowing the effects of the vegetable just in case a scenario like occurred, and it just so happened a got a positive result.

ForAllOfThis wrote:@Ibarra: Did you know the true effect of the carrot? Would it have caused poison or good health? Do you get to choose? Given that you know the effects of the vegetables, do you have any choice in what they do?

Let me repeat. I did not know the effects of the carrot. Lataro sent me a PM with the contents of the PM he sent Lorenz after he sent it to Lorenz.
Basically I give out presents, but I do not know what those presents do until I give them.

@Lorenz
You claim Lorenz that the PM was too good to be true, but Lataro has said himself that you could trust PM's from him.
That would mean that if you did have a passive ability, you wouldn't care if you got roleblocked (possible negative effect) since roleblocks I believe do not affect passive abilities. You would have nothing to lose if you ate the carrot and you did indeed have a passive ability.
This is why I think you're lying for a third time - this time about your ability. I think you have an active ability and didn't want to risk the roleblock.

by **cjdrum** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:25 am UTC

Ibarra wrote:
cjdrum wrote:You start by claiming as soon as your game gets a bit of rolespec suspicion. Then you give a carrot to Lorenz. Then Lorenz does what he claims is a gambit, then you claim that "no, mine was a trap". Gambits are often not what Townies do. Traps are what scum set.

Gambits and traps can both be done by scum and town. Where did you get the false notion that only scum gambit/set traps?

No, I mustn't have made the contrast clear enough.
"Gambits" are mainly anti-town, but are often from town too.
"Traps" are made by scum, or by Townies who want to look scummy.

Lorenz claimed a gambit. You claimed a trap. Traps kill people, regardless of alignment. Gambits are simply weird.
Therefore, in terms of scumminess, traps > gambits.

Ibarra wrote:Lataro has said himself that you could trust PM's from him.

Just out of interest... When?

by **Lorenz** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:23 am UTC

*cough*

You may trust your role PMs, there are no lies within them, I will assure you of that right now(unless I'm lying right now, that is.)

ROLE PMs...

Also, If I'm ever caught with an active power I should be lynched immediately.

by **Ibarra** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:24 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:No, I mustn't have made the contrast clear enough.
"Gambits" are mainly anti-town, but are often from town too.
"Traps" are made by scum, or by Townies who want to look scummy.

Lorenz claimed a gambit. You claimed a trap. Traps kill people, regardless of alignment. Gambits are simply weird.
Therefore, in terms of scumminess, traps > gambits.

In the context of my post, the meaning of gambit and trap were the same.

Ibarra wrote:Actually Lorenz, you fell into MY trap. Call it a gambit.

I honestly don't see how you ended up at that notion.

cjdrum wrote:Just out of interest... When?

OP wrote:You may trust your role PMs, there are no lies within them, I will assure you of that right now(unless I'm lying right now, that is.)

by **Ibarra** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:29 am UTC

Ninja'd by Lorenz
Yeah I kind of misread that. Thanks for pointing that out, but it still doesn't explain why even with a passive action you didn't want to go for it. It could have given info to the town.

Lorenz wrote:Also, If I'm ever caught with an active power I should be lynched immediately.

That reminds me, if you guys do decide to lynch me and I flip town farmer, please lynch Lorenz.

by **existential_elevator** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:31 am UTC

I would support an Ibarra lynch, but I won't put it there cos my two votes are dangerous and all, yo.

Just promise we'll overthrow the tyranny of mod tomorrow?

by **cjdrum** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:32 am UTC

Yeah, probably will...

by **cjdrum** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:33 am UTC

EBWOP: That was to Ibarra, but I reckon lynching the mod tomorrow may be worth it... I dunno.

by **Lataro** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:01 pm UTC

Votals:

Lataro -2- (e_e)
Ibarra -2- (Lorenz, cjdrum)
Lorenz -2- (Ibarra, FAOT)

Seven alive, Four to lynch.

Deadline in ~21 hours.

by **weiyaoli** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:24 pm UTC

Why are you being pedantic over the usage of trap/gambit cjdrum?

In any case, I think I find Lorenz slightly more suspicious at this point in time, and would like them to claim their passive action.

Vote:Lorenz

by **ForAllOfThis** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:47 pm UTC

Yea your townieness is quickly dropping CJ. Looking at the situation I can't see how Ibarra comes off more scummy than Lorenz in this situation. Your reasoning about 'gambits' is bullshit to be honest. I rarely see town lie, and when they do it is usually a white lie (withholding information rather than giving fake information). On the other hand I've seen scum give fake information dozens of times (i.e. gambit).

The way I see it, Ibarra withheld information (about their role) whereas Lorenz purpusefully tried to misdirect us about Ibarra's role.

by **cjdrum** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:24 pm UTC

Nonononono

unvote
vote: Lataro

Lorenz isn't scum.

by **Lataro** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:26 pm UTC

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Oh, nothing.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm UTC

Cj, why the hell have you put Lataro to L-1? That's just giving Lorenz the chance to hammer Lataro (which is the best situation for scum IMO).

Actually, go ahead Lorenz. It'll just be the final nail in the coffin that proves your guilt (and CJ's as well).

by **Lataro** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:38 am UTC

Wait a second. What? Lynching the mod?

Okay. Before I die, I just have one thing to say.
Lorenz is Lord of the Rings, Town. I know because... Well, I gave him the role!

He asked me to tell you. So with me about to be lynched I've told you all now.

by **webby** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:46 am UTC

So I post saying I have no idea what's going on in this game and it gets even more confusing?

cjdrum is acting extremely strangely. Is it too simple to think that he's the imposter and that we should be lynching him?

In terms of the mod's last post - someone can counterclaim Lord of the Rings if they wish, but otherwise I'll assume the post is truthful in terms of the LOTR part and make no assumptions about Lorenz's role.

by **Lorenz** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:01 am UTC

Not much time, but I'm not LOTR.

by **Lorenz** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:34 am UTC

In any case, I think I find Lorenz slightly more suspicious at this point in time, and would like them to claim their passive action.

Fine... I might as well start being honest and realize that my awsome-in-my-mind plans will never work out.
I can't be lynched. Go ahead and test it, but we'll end up with a NL that does us no good.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:07 am UTC

Not being LOTR at least confirms my suspicions that the flavour-text was player controlled. What game are you Lorenz, if not LOTR? Just to make sure you are telling the truth about not-being LOTR. I suggest you claim and if someone counter-claims we know you are lying again (which wouldn't surprise me).

Also, why on earth you'd keep the fact you can't be lynched secret till L-1 I have no idea. It's not like scum can use it against town. It's not a particularly useful town role either. I still think a Lorenz lynch is a good idea, I don't particularly believe his unlynchable ability, or the fact he's not LOTR (and orchestrated the message himself to make himself look more townie).

by **Ibarra** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:06 am UTC

Why don't we hammer Lorenz and see?
IMO an unlynchable ability is more suited for SK/Scum.
Eight hours left.

by **webby** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:50 am UTC

So I'm the only one who hasn't voted?

I believe Ibarra's story, I'm not sure about Lorenz, and I have absolutely no idea what lynching Lataro will do.

I don't want to lynch Ibarra, so I think I'm going to test out Lorenz's lynchability, and if that leads to a No Lynch, then so be it - I'm hoping we'll find out more about this game during the night?

I'm curious as to why cjdrum would vote Lataro? Would like to vote cjdrum, but that will do nothing with no other votes on him and deadline approaching.

We only have a few hours to deadline - I'll vote in half an hour to an hour before I go to bed, to give others a quick chance to object.

by **cjdrum** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:59 am UTC

I... Don't know.

unvote

I'm not gonna be on at deadline. That's at like 4 or 6 tomorrow morning. Not happening.

by **webby** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:53 pm UTC

Ok, hammertime - I'd prefer testing Lorenz's lynchability over what I believe would be an Ibarra mislynch, or whatever the ramifications of lynching Lataro are.

Vote: Lorenz

He's lied at least twice already, lets see if he was lying again...

by **Lataro** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:28 am UTC

As the day drew on, and the proverbial night drew closer, the gathered masses continued to debate. Among the crowd, some called for the destruction of the formless evil, giving it the name Lataro, however, the majority of those gathered were unwilling to risk his wrath, and choose instead to try and take down Lorenz. As they battled him, it was evident that they could not take him down before night fell, and so they dispersed to safety as it settled in.

No one has been lynched.

Final Votals:

Lataro -2- (e_e)
Ibarra -1- (Lorenz)
Lorenz -4- (Ibarra, FAOT, weiyaoli, webby)

It is now Night One, please be prompt with actions.

by **Lataro** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:30 pm UTC

After all the chaos at the day's end, the masses had expected a bloody night moving forward, especially after offending the darkness. Luckily for all gathered, the darkness was forgiving, and had granted a reprieve on the setting of the final sun on these lands for now.

As they came together expecting to find their dead, they instead found that everyone was accounted for.

It is now Day Two. Deadline is ~6pm EST Friday.

Seven alive, four to lynch.

by **existential_elevator** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:49 pm UTC

So, who's actually gonna do the sensible thing this time?

vote: Lataro

Day 1 may as well have not happened.

by **cjdrum** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:42 pm UTC

I think lynching Lorenz (again) is the way to go?

vote: Lorenz

by **ForAllOfThis** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:50 am UTC

The night wasn't completely eventless. I was informed that I was being roleblocked during the night. Whether it's scum controlled or town controlled I have no idea. It could even be Lataro lieing to me (especially as most people aren't told when they are roleblocked).

FoS: CJDrum

'Good' reasoning there. Welcome to the top of my 'Who should be lynched today' list.

Along with e_e, your pushing way too hard to lynch Lataro. It'd be better for us to take out an independent than a mod. Putting votes down right at the start of the day is just pure idiocity as well. Especially you e_e, if we have a 2 player scum team they can choose to vote Lataro and effectively get a NL.

by **Ibarra** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:40 am UTC

Lorenz's story checks out, but I'm still inclining to believe he isn't town.
His ability screams non-town.

Incidentally, who should I give my vegetable to?

by **Ibarra** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:00 am UTC

After think about it, I'm guessing cjdrum would be a nice target.
He's acting scummy at the moment. Thoughts on this?

by **cjdrum** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:06 am UTC

Use it on yourself.

If I were scum, why would I eat it? Duh.

Also, FAOT: Thanks! Is there any cake? Cookies? Anything?
Also I am not pushing to lynch the mod. I'm voting Lorenz.

by **cjdrum** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:09 am UTC

If Lorenz's behavior is scummy, and Lorenz's lynch immunity is scummy, then why is it bad to lynch Lorenz? Even if it's a permanent immunity, we don't exactly lose anything significant by doing it.

It'd be like lynching someone who happens to be lynch immune on D1.

by **webby** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:14 am UTC

cjdrum has been acting extremely oddly, I suspect it's posting restriction/role based, but that doesn't mean he's not scum. His post that ninja'd me does make sense though.

Ibarra, I'll eat it if nobody else wants to.

Shall we get Lorenz to claim the flavour reason for his unlynchability? I would think that one-shot would make him likely anti-town, while permanent unlynchability could be game breaking in a scum player, and therefore would be likely town. So we could lynch him again to test this.

FOAT, I believe e_e claimed that her win condition was to get Lataro lynched.

Why is everyone acting so weirdly? :S

by **existential_elevator** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:03 am UTC

FOAT, lynching Lataro is my only win condition. For serious. I get bonus points for hammering. Me voting on anyone else will only make it easier for scum to get an early hammer, what with the double voting.

I requested the vegetable yesterday, and I'll request it again today. Anything to alleviate the boredom and futility of my existence.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:03 am UTC

cjdrum wrote:If Lorenz's behavior is scummy, and Lorenz's lynch immunity is scummy, then why is it bad to lynch Lorenz? Even if it's a permanent immunity, we don't exactly lose anything significant by doing it.

It'd be like lynching someone who happens to be lynch immune on D1.

You went from leaning towards lynching Ibarra then quickly turned around when everyone thought Lorenz was scummier. Unless you have information I don't, then why do you think lynching Lorenz will work a second time if it didn't the first? Your practically saying 'Lets No Lynch', which is an incredibly scummy strategy. On top of that you also put Lataro to L-1 yesterday, which could possibly cause a NL (maybe even end game).

Ibarra I'd rather you gave it to someone we can trust. I don't trust e_e at the moment because putting Lataro at 2 vote isn't helping us, and I definitely don't trust CJ for his weird turn arounds, lack of explanation and for putting Lataro at L-1 yesterday. I'll be willing to eat it, or I think Wei/Webby might be better recievers, I feel like I can trust them more than e_e or CJ. At least that way we might get some trustworthy information.

e_e you've failed to mention what happens to you if you lynch Lataro, do you disappear from the game?

by **existential_elevator** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:10 am UTC

I win? Hell, you can lynch me afterwards, for all I care. All I want is for the mod to suffer.

by **weiyaoli** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:The night wasn't completely eventless. I was informed that I was being roleblocked during the night. Whether it's scum controlled or town controlled I have no idea. It could even be Lataro lieing to me (especially as most people aren't told when they are roleblocked).

Well at least you claimed this first, so bonus points to you I suppose. I don't know if this means that FAOT was the killer but got blocked, or there was also a doctor or scum abstained (I don't know why they would do this but I suppose it's possible).

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