0513: "Friends"

[Xiroth]

It's not that being friends before being lovers is a bad thing. It's being friends in order to become lovers which is nasty. Also being friends, developing a crush, and trying to ease her into being lovers - be straight-forward about it, for fuck's sake. If I've learned one thing about relationships, it's that honesty and straight-forwardness gets you a lot further than beating around the bush. If she's not interested, then she's not going to get (truly) interested by you being 'there for her' - she's just going to see you as a friend you can rely on, so if you then turn around and reveal that you were only doing it to get in her pants, then it's not going to be received well (or, if she desperately needs your support, she might agree to it - but as the comic says, not because she actually loves you).

[tarrantkwok]

Ninjaed twice. WTF.

That's also the reason I always found 'Romeo & Juliet' a bit hypocritical. It wants to portray true love but Romeo falls in love with Juliet by just seeing her across the ballroom (in the version I saw anyway). For all he knows, she could be a raving psychopath.

Give Shakespeare a little more credit than that. He knew exactly what he was doing. Their love was absolutely supposed to be flimsy (or Romeo's certainly was.) If it hadn't been omgforbidden! it probably wouldn't have come to anything.

Romeo was indeed a fickle playa, Rosaline anyone? Juliet however was enough to nail his ass down for good, as evidenced after Romeo popped a rapier in Tybalt.
And anyway, the whole omgforbidden! love thing could have evaporated as well.

[reaver121]

I'm the same. I have nothing against people who jump into a relationship 10 seconds after they meet the girl but it seems rather illogical and feels wrong to me somehow. That's also the reason I always found 'Romeo & Juliet' a bit hypocritical. It wants to portray true love but Romeo falls in love with Juliet by just seeing her across the ballroom (in the version I saw anyway). For all he knows, she could be a raving psychopath.

Y'know, I've never been altogether convinced that the point of Romeo and Juliet was to "portray true love," although people so often speak of it that way. It struck me more as being about how, when people carry on senseless feuds and perpetuate hatred, life sucks and nice people die. The two main characters struck me more as two kids caught up in a first crush.

Edit: Duh, I'm so used to getting irrelevant ninja notifications that I've stopped reading them, and I should've read this one. Yeah, what Quixotess said--although it's fair to mention that many, many people don't "give Shakespeare a little more credit than that"; I've heard Romeo and Juliet held up as examples of true, perfect lovers more times than I can count.

I must admit that I assumed it was about love as it is usually presented that way, at least in popular culture. If Shakespeare meant it the way you say, it definitely hits the mark.

[cr08]

Sorry guys, that the whole thing is not pre-planned in no way makes it better, I'm afraid. If you get into a serious, long-term friendship because you want to get into a girl's pants, you're an arsehole. No ifs, no buts.

In all reality, the creepy guys are the 'jerk' in the comic who put on the faux nice guy facade in order to garner attention from their objects of desire.

Hehehe, it's funny because you're full of shit. Everyone puts their best foot forward when they're looking to date someone - you claim that's jerkish behaviour, then hey, you've just labelled pretty much the entire species, male or female, a jerk. What's more important is that you're honest about your intentions, and these 'jerks', universally, are.

Hey, if that's what you want to think, no one is stopping you. Actually, considering you mention that, there is a sense that there are two trains of thought when it comes to all this: Those that are overly confident in themselves and jump in and 'put their best foot forward' as you call it. Sometimes jerkish, sometimes what's needed to get the other person's attention. Then there's the other party: The not so confident who don't make every attempt to make themselves look good but rather prefer to be honest and hope that the other person will actually like them.

Now I will admit that neither train of thought is right or wrong. But tell me which one would have a larger probability of having the proverbial 'jerk' as portrayed by this comic?

[Berk and Hair]

Sorry guys, that the whole thing is not pre-planned in no way makes it better, I'm afraid. If you get into a serious, long-term friendship because you want to get into a girl's pants, you're an arsehole. No ifs, no buts.

[quote="cr08"]In all reality, the creepy guys are the 'jerk' in the comic who put on the faux nice guy facade in order to garner attention from their objects of desire.
Hehehe, it's funny because you're full of shit. Everyone puts their best foot forward when they're looking to date someone - you claim that's jerkish behaviour, then hey, you've just labelled pretty much the entire species, male or female, a jerk. What's more important is that you're honest about your intentions, and these 'jerks', universally, are.

Actually, you're full of shit. Clearly if getting in that situation is not planned then the guy didn't do it to get into the girls pants. Besides which, all human interaction is based on trying to obtain some advantage from someone by offering them something in exchange. People choose their sexual partners for fairly weak reasons (it has always astonished me that sleeping with someone for money is considered more superficial than sleeping with them because they look pretty). The only real problem with the 'friend with detriment' strategy is that it is a pretty piss poor strategy.

[guayec]

Amazing strip. Remember a few "relationships" i had.

[cr08]

Also, just as an overall observation to this thread: The people who equate a relationship as simply 'getting into someones pants' sickens me. It's a superficial idea at best and just an idiotic mindset at worst. A relationship should NEVER be used as an excuse JUST to have sex and those that do deserve the equivalent of emotional genocide happen to them.

*steps off soapbox*

And just as clarification for those who can't read: I never stated sex should be foregone completely, just it should not be the SOLE motivator to get into a relationship, period.

[Platypodes]

I must admit that I assumed it was about love as it is usually presented that way, at least in popular culture. If Shakespeare meant it the way you say, it definitely hits the mark.

I think pop-culture interpretations are often based on keywords rather than full content...

Back to the comic for a moment, "this jerk" is a rare instance of a boy with hair. What's up with that? Is he be a transguy? Or just in touch with his feminine side? Or maybe pretending to be in touch with his feminine side by doing superficial things like having hair for the sake of deceiving his innocent girlfriend as to his true jerk-ness?

[Catdrake]

Ow... this one... this was a soul hurt. randall... god, i need sleep... I don't need this kind of pain in finals week, randall.

[cr08]

Back to the comic for a moment, "this jerk" is a rare instance of a boy with hair. What's up with that? Is he be a transguy? Or just in touch with his feminine side? Or maybe pretending to be in touch with his feminine side by doing superficial things like having hair for the sake of deceiving his innocent girlfriend as to his true jerk-ness?

I think you are possibly reading into it a bit much. It's probably referring simply to the classic idea of the big hunk with a mullet, hair down to their shoulders, or an otherwise elaborate hairstyle that were always pined over. Just my interpretation anyway. *shrug*

[Xiroth]

Hey, if that's what you want to think, no one is stopping you. Actually, considering you mention that, there is a sense that there are two trains of thought when it comes to all this: Those that are overly confident in themselves and jump in and 'put their best foot forward' as you call it. Sometimes jerkish, sometimes what's needed to get the other person's attention. Then there's the other party: The not so confident who don't make every attempt to make themselves look good but rather prefer to be honest and hope that the other person will actually like them.

That's cool, and a good approach - not everyone is willing to ask someone out when they first meet them - me included, mostly. So hang out for two or three weeks, get to know each other - and then, before there's any sort of emotional dependecy involved which could turn the thing into blackmail, ask her out and make your interest clear. She knows you, you know her, and decisions based on real personalities can be made rather than on pure bravado. It's a good path.

Just don't drag it out.

Actually, you're full of shit. Clearly if getting in that situation is not planned then the guy didn't do it to get into the girls pants. Besides which, all human interaction is based on trying to obtain some advantage from someone by offering them something in exchange.

As I say, friends first isn't a bad thing unless you try to manipulate the other into liking you by taking advantage of the friendship relation. And the exchange is pretty clear in a healthy relationship - you both want someone next to you when you wake up, you both want someone who you can trust (this is the healthy part), you both want intimacy and emotional closeness, and in exchange you're both willing to sacrifice some independence. It's not like either side is losing something to the other.

[Quixotess]

I must admit that I assumed it was about love as it is usually presented that way, at least in popular culture. If Shakespeare meant it the way you say, it definitely hits the mark.

Yup. Behold I.ii:

Spoiler:

BENVOLIO

At this same ancient feast of Capulet's
Sups the fair Rosaline whom thou so lovest,
With all the admired beauties of Verona:
Go thither; and, with unattainted eye,
Compare her face with some that I shall show,
And I will make thee think thy swan a crow.

ROMEO

When the devout religion of mine eye
Maintains such falsehood, then turn tears to fires;
And these, who often drown'd could never die,
Transparent heretics, be burnt for liars!
One fairer than my love! the all-seeing sun
Ne'er saw her match since first the world begun.

Then in I.v regarding Juliet:

Spoiler:

ROMEO

[To a Servingman] What lady is that, which doth
enrich the hand
Of yonder knight?

Servant

I know not, sir.

ROMEO

O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright!
It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night
Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope's ear;
Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear!
So shows a snowy dove trooping with crows,
As yonder lady o'er her fellows shows.
The measure done, I'll watch her place of stand,
And, touching hers, make blessed my rude hand.
Did my heart love till now? forswear it, sight!
For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night.

Romeo's not so much a playa as a flake and a drama-monger.

Edit: Oh, Shakespeare is so much fun to read! I'm getting lost in this play now.

[Platypodes]

Back to the comic for a moment, "this jerk" is a rare instance of a boy with hair. What's up with that? Is he be a transguy? Or just in touch with his feminine side? Or maybe pretending to be in touch with his feminine side by doing superficial things like having hair for the sake of deceiving his innocent girlfriend as to his true jerk-ness?

I think you are possibly reading into it a bit much. It's probably referring simply to the classic idea of the big hunk with a mullet, hair down to their shoulders, or an otherwise elaborate hairstyle that were always pined over. Just my interpretation anyway. *shrug*

Hey, I was just trying to have some fun with it, seeing as how we've always made much on here about how the way to tell the xkcd boys from the xkcd girls is by whether they have hair or not.

*runs back to her post to add an 'I'm not being terribly serious here' sticker*

[Pizzashark]

I've noticed that people on webcomic forums have a strong tendency to refer to the artist(s) by name, as though they were well-known acquaintances. Why is that?

/ramble

Sorry guys, that the whole thing is not pre-planned in no way makes it better, I'm afraid. If you get into a serious, long-term friendship because you want to get into a girl's pants, you're an arsehole. No ifs, no buts.

In all reality, the creepy guys are the 'jerk' in the comic who put on the faux nice guy facade in order to garner attention from their objects of desire.

Hehehe, it's funny because you're full of shit. Everyone puts their best foot forward when they're looking to date someone - you claim that's jerkish behaviour, then hey, you've just labelled pretty much the entire species, male or female, a jerk. What's more important is that you're honest about your intentions, and these 'jerks', universally, are.

Hey, if that's what you want to think, no one is stopping you. Actually, considering you mention that, there is a sense that there are two trains of thought when it comes to all this: Those that are overly confident in themselves and jump in and 'put their best foot forward' as you call it. Sometimes jerkish, sometimes what's needed to get the other person's attention. Then there's the other party: The not so confident who don't make every attempt to make themselves look good but rather prefer to be honest and hope that the other person will actually like them.

Now I will admit that neither train of thought is right or wrong. But tell me which one would have a larger probability of having the proverbial 'jerk' as portrayed by this comic?

Putting your best foot forward doesn't necessarily lying. Telling someone you just met about all the bad and stupid shit you've done would be quite a bit like saying more than what you were specifically asked while on the stand (don't do that, by the way.)

[cr08]

Back to the comic for a moment, "this jerk" is a rare instance of a boy with hair. What's up with that? Is he be a transguy? Or just in touch with his feminine side? Or maybe pretending to be in touch with his feminine side by doing superficial things like having hair for the sake of deceiving his innocent girlfriend as to his true jerk-ness?

I think you are possibly reading into it a bit much. It's probably referring simply to the classic idea of the big hunk with a mullet, hair down to their shoulders, or an otherwise elaborate hairstyle that were always pined over. Just my interpretation anyway. *shrug*

Hey, I was just trying to have some fun with it, seeing as how we've always made much on here about how the way to tell the xkcd boys from the xkcd girls is by whether they have hair or not.

*runs back to her post to add an 'I'm not being terribly serious here' sticker*

Sorry. My wording was a bit off. Meant it as more of a joking jab.

[cr08]

I've noticed that people on webcomic forums have a strong tendency to refer to the artist(s) by name, as though they were well-known acquaintances. Why is that?

/ramble

Sorry guys, that the whole thing is not pre-planned in no way makes it better, I'm afraid. If you get into a serious, long-term friendship because you want to get into a girl's pants, you're an arsehole. No ifs, no buts.

In all reality, the creepy guys are the 'jerk' in the comic who put on the faux nice guy facade in order to garner attention from their objects of desire.

Hehehe, it's funny because you're full of shit. Everyone puts their best foot forward when they're looking to date someone - you claim that's jerkish behaviour, then hey, you've just labelled pretty much the entire species, male or female, a jerk. What's more important is that you're honest about your intentions, and these 'jerks', universally, are.

Hey, if that's what you want to think, no one is stopping you. Actually, considering you mention that, there is a sense that there are two trains of thought when it comes to all this: Those that are overly confident in themselves and jump in and 'put their best foot forward' as you call it. Sometimes jerkish, sometimes what's needed to get the other person's attention. Then there's the other party: The not so confident who don't make every attempt to make themselves look good but rather prefer to be honest and hope that the other person will actually like them.

Now I will admit that neither train of thought is right or wrong. But tell me which one would have a larger probability of having the proverbial 'jerk' as portrayed by this comic?

Putting your best foot forward doesn't necessarily lying. Telling someone you just met about all the bad and stupid shit you've done would be quite a bit like saying more than what you were specifically asked while on the stand (don't do that, by the way.)

Oh. Of course not. Never insisted it was. But like I said, I'd sooner expect to see the jerk who didn't have any respect and just wanted to get into the other persons pants from the 'overly confident' mindset than the not-so-confident and stumbling-over-themselves mindset. Though it's not ALWAYS like that, just what I'd expect a hearty amount of the time.

[Platypodes]

Hey, I was just trying to have some fun with it, seeing as how we've always made much on here about how the way to tell the xkcd boys from the xkcd girls is by whether they have hair or not.

*runs back to her post to add an 'I'm not being terribly serious here' sticker*

Sorry. My wording was a bit off. Meant it as more of a joking jab.

You mean that while I was saying that you were taking my silly remarks too seriously, I was in fact taking your silly remarks too seriously? Oops.

I've noticed that people on webcomic forums have a strong tendency to refer to the artist(s) by name, as though they were well-known acquaintances. Why is that?

I started doing it because so many other people did. I wonder how many people started for the same reason and whether you could ever find the people who actually instituted the practice.

Thinking about it now, though... We talk about him enough that it's good to have a one-word way to refer to him, and calling him "Munroe" does sound so very formal, as if we were talking about somebody we'd studied.... "As Munroe said in Comic #231, 'It's the thigh of the tiger.' This has variously been be interpreted to mean..."

[lavamouse]

Remind me of the guy I was seeing before the summer holidays. We met at the start of the academic year, but only got together in the summer term after the exams. He tried it on with me about three days after we met after saying something really stupid like "Everything's so complicated because I always wind up kissing the girls I'm hanging out with" - but I stopped it (just about, he is fairly attractive) saying that if "we" were meant to happen, then it could happen in its own time, it didn't have to be right then...

But we were good friends to each other - if one of us was having a bad day, we could go to the other and talk about it until things seemed a little better. Or we'd just hang out and have lunch or watch silly videos on YouTube (I showed him Trogdor and he laughed so hard he started choking). I told him about someone who meant a lot to me a long time ago, and he wasn't phased in the slightest - even when something I wrote about that person ended up getting printed (he said that I wrote well, and that was it). It was just that we had to skirt around the whole "We're just friends, but there is evidently the potential for something else" thing every so often.

But we did get together in the end, and had what I thought was a really great time... until he left and swanned across Europe, getting back with his ex-girlfriend from a few months before in the process (before finishing with me - before he left he had said he loved me and that he wouldn't cheat). Then he waited until she'd gone home (they live in different contries when they aren't at university) before telling me what was going on... swine.

We're trying the friends thing again, but I miss not talking to him when I'm stressed about things, because I don't feel like I can trust him as much now. But he's still with the girl he finished with me for (they've been together five months now) so at least he didn't ruin so much for something that meant nothing.

[bellatoearth]

Coming from someone who pauses before telling her boyfriend she loves him, I find it a little disheartening that the majority seems to empathize with the guy in this comic. However, I suppose the blame is with both stick figures-- the guy for taking advantage of the girl in a moment of weakness, and the girl for being weak. The last panel is a sort of catharsis. (I tell myself she's just dating the jerk for free drinks!)

Also, you might be interested in this comic on the same theme: http://cowbird.110mb.com/313.html

[RoyW]

re: http://www.laddertheory.com/

But the ladders are not at all plausible, or based on anything other than the writer's own mentality, which is itself skewed. The author, who is a man, purports to understand the way women think, that is, in terms of two separate "ladders", without ever actually asking women if they think like this. (I have in fact done so, and here's a hint: in general, they do not.) Also, he purports to understand how all men think,
i.e., in terms of one ladder, which is again, not the case. And he has absolutely nothing to base this on.

<snip>

I agree that ladder theory is rubbish, and misogynistic to boot, but like some other broken theories, there are some useful ideas in there, and if ladder theory gets someone to stop playing the 'intellectual whore' (I think that's the most useful concept in the whole thing), then all power to it.

I've also been in the 'friend zone' led from the other direction - she knew I had some interest in seeing if there was more than friendship, she wanted a sounding board for all the disasterous relationships she kept getting into. After playing into this for way longer than I should have, I eventually realised how manipulative she was being (possibly unintentionally) by showing just enough interest to keep me on the hook, so I cut off contact. Real friendships with women are great, but not if it's just a cover for a hidden agenda from either side.

I'd like to imagine that it's possible for a relationship to grow out of an honest friendship, but so far that's not my experience.

[Xiroth]

Also, just as an overall observation to this thread: The people who equate a relationship as simply 'getting into someones pants' sickens me. It's a superficial idea at best and just an idiotic mindset at worst. A relationship should NEVER be used as an excuse JUST to have sex and those that do deserve the equivalent of emotional genocide happen to them.

Hehehe, yup. There's all sorts of other things associated with this kind of behaviour - that she's clearly just not sensible enough to see the good thing right in front of her, that if she'd just open her eyes and look then the story would end happily ever after. Suppressed lust, possessiveness and disdain for her opinion - that's the common thread that I see in these cases.

Not love, though, I'm afraid. In my experience, love fundamentally needs trust, and the reason that guys act like this is that they don't trust the girl to handle it well if they were straight-forward about their feelings.

[reaver121]

I must admit that I assumed it was about love as it is usually presented that way, at least in popular culture. If Shakespeare meant it the way you say, it definitely hits the mark.

Yup. Behold I.ii:

Spoiler:

BENVOLIO

At this same ancient feast of Capulet's
Sups the fair Rosaline whom thou so lovest,
With all the admired beauties of Verona:
Go thither; and, with unattainted eye,
Compare her face with some that I shall show,
And I will make thee think thy swan a crow.

ROMEO

When the devout religion of mine eye
Maintains such falsehood, then turn tears to fires;
And these, who often drown'd could never die,
Transparent heretics, be burnt for liars!
One fairer than my love! the all-seeing sun
Ne'er saw her match since first the world begun.

Then in I.v regarding Juliet:

Spoiler:

ROMEO

[To a Servingman] What lady is that, which doth
enrich the hand
Of yonder knight?

Servant

I know not, sir.

ROMEO

O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright!
It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night
Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope's ear;
Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear!
So shows a snowy dove trooping with crows,
As yonder lady o'er her fellows shows.
The measure done, I'll watch her place of stand,
And, touching hers, make blessed my rude hand.
Did my heart love till now? forswear it, sight!
For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night.

Romeo's not so much a playa as a flake and a drama-monger.

Edit: Oh, Shakespeare is so much fun to read! I'm getting lost in this play now.

Well, sheds a whole new light on things. That'll teach me to do my homework before I say something .

[Platypodes]

[...]
But we did get together in the end, and had what I thought was a really great time... until he left and swanned across Europe, getting back with his ex-girlfriend from a few months before in the process (before finishing with me - before he left he had said he loved me and that he wouldn't cheat). Then he waited until she'd gone home (they live in different contries when they aren't at university) before telling me what was going on... swine.

We're trying the friends thing again, but I miss not talking to him when I'm stressed about things, because I don't feel like I can trust him as much now.[...]

You sure you still want to "try the friends thing"? It sounds as if (a) he treated you badly and (b) you don't really think too highly of him anymore. So why try to be friends?

[mrrix32]

Was I the only one waiting for the "Never gonna give you up" line?

[cr08]

@lavamouse: The sad part is that it's really sad it happens like that. You put so much trust in another person and it all goes so well to the point that even the most rational mindset would come to believe that that same trust could not be easily broken. Then out of nowhere it just snaps like a twig. Disheartening, and feels more like they've ripped out a piece of you that you will never get back and it makes it difficult to trust anyone else ever again due to the induced paranoia.

...As cliche as all that sounds anyway.

[weirdshift]

Really, no one else seeing the irony of the guy saying "but he doesn't respect you!"?

The girl has no interest to start with, the guy is aware of that. So instead of moving on, he sticks around and becomes all friendly.
... and then is surprised when he is just a friend. And he had the intent of being more of a friend to start with - not what she wished.

Doing this with the intent of getting a relationship is morally bankrupt. Not to mention that whoever tries this is probably not terrible at it, and will become a friend at most. Then go online and whine about "friendzone".

Be a friend, or don't be.

[cr08]

Really, no one else seeing the irony of the guy saying "but he doesn't respect you!"?

The girl has no interest to start with, the guy is aware of that. So instead of moving on, he sticks around and becomes all friendly.
... and then is surprised when he is just a friend. And he had the intent of being more of a friend to start with - not what she wished.

Doing this with the intent of getting a relationship is morally bankrupt. Not to mention that whoever tries this is probably not terrible at it, and will become a friend at most. Then go online and whine about "friendzone".

Be a friend, or don't be.

Emotions often don't help the case. Especially when it eventually gets to the point that the opposite end of the friendship clearly expresses they aren't interested in that way but the feeling still lingers post-mortem. Unless you are a robot, it's not as simple as flipping a light switch I'm afraid. You can only hope the rational side of the brain kicks in and keeps the psyche in check so as not to create the 'creepy guy' scenario till the emotions have settled.

[thenextksmith]

This has been no less than 90% of my relationships with women.
It never seems to end. :\

[l3lazec]

I've read most of these posts and it seems to me that no one is looking it from the p.o.v. of "the jerk"

I broke up with my girlfriend 3 months ago (because she had to move away to london, for no other reason did we end this) and I have recently found out that she is now dating her "best friend"(who lives in london). The guy whom she has known for years who I recently found out has had a crush on her since they first met and has taken the position of best friend towards her.

This guy has done pretty much everything depicted in the story such as staying up all night/morning to listen to her talk, she cried on his shoulder when we broke up and he soaked up everything she said plus more and doing all this typical "nice guy stuff" such as always paying for her no matter what or never eating meat around (she's a vegetarian).

And from my point of view as the former boyfriend (aka: the jerk), I think that guys an idiot and that he doesn't realize what he's actually doing. Maybe I'm just bitter because this guy is dating someone whom I still love, but I think that taking place as the bestfriend in order to become the boyfriend is not something that should be done.

[henre]

I just realised with a shock that I've been that guy before.

I'm no longer with her. I am now with someone who wants to be with me, straight-up (and I'm going to marry her).

[Pizzashark]

I just realised with a shock that I've been that guy before.

I'm no longer with her. I am now with someone who wants to be with me, straight-up (and I'm going to marry her).

Worst mistake of your life.

Now, am I being serious, or am I joking? Class?

[Asday]

I've got this weird take on a fear of rejection... I'm afraid to ask people to be with me, not because I'm scared of being rejected, but because I don't wantthem to feel bad when they do.

I think I'm kinda rare.

[madjo]

It's almost my life to a tee... except in my case, it never started out as me trying to become her friend, but actually asking her out, and her then saying "Let's just be friends."
And let me tell you, that what is described in the comic, doesnt' actually work.
She is now married, and it's not to me.

[Netrilix]

Wow, that one hit pretty close to home. The only difference is, I don't usually go into the friendship expecting a relationship. The crush develops as I spend time with her. I've really got to break the habit though. In the past 10 years, I've heard the "but I just consider you a really close friend" speech not once... not twice... but four times. One of them was actually last week (Randall get out of my mind! ). I'm still friends with three of them, and it doesn't bother me that I was rejected, because looking back, none of them would have worked out (yeah, yeah, sour grapes, whatever). Well, time to get to work.

[Gracenotes]

Really, no one else seeing the irony of the guy saying "but he doesn't respect you!"?

The girl has no interest to start with, the guy is aware of that. So instead of moving on, he sticks around and becomes all friendly.
... and then is surprised when he is just a friend. And he had the intent of being more of a friend to start with - not what she wished.

Doing this with the intent of getting a relationship is morally bankrupt. Not to mention that whoever tries this is probably not terrible at it, and will become a friend at most. Then go online and whine about "friendzone".

Be a friend, or don't be.

It takes a great amount of skill to write a coherent/deep web comic in which the punchline is "But he doesn't respect you!". Actually, the irony is deeper than that. In his mind, he's not been rejected: using the hypocritical respect line, he's now trying to become all friendly so that later he can move onto making her depend on him. He's not been cut off. It's just beginning!

Also, you don't know that "whoever tries this is probably terrible at it" (assuming you meant to leave out the 'not' there). That's a jab more aimed at forum-goers rather than at the guy in the comic, about whom you'd been talking for the rest of your analysis. If the nice-guy-jerk is crafty enough to come up with this scenario, I think he would be able to execute it well, independent of whether the scenario itself is effective.

[d3c31t]

This comic is so true... it just screams reality at me, truly an excellent job sir, brilliant, just brilliant

[Zinc Elemental]

Why, Randall? Couldn't you hang out in someone else's head?
I do this much too much. T_T

[Steroid]

So let's break this down:

Action: Come right out at first meeting and ask for sex.
Result: Be considered creepy perv, get nothing.

Action: Come right out at first meeting and ask for a loving relationship.
Result: Be considered dishonest creepy perv, since on first meeting there's no way one could know that they're attracted to the other person, so it must be lust.

Action: Wait until conversation and such have established a friend-like bond, then ask for a loving relationship.
Result: She goes off with jerk, and you have friends-with-detriments as in the comic.

Action: Wait until conversation and such have established a friend-like bond, then ask for sex.
Result: Be subject to "where did this come from?!" shock and possible damage to friendship.
Further result: Must work harder to rebuild the friendship and it may never reach the same level of comfort as before.
Alternate result: She's actually interested in sex; friends with benefits. Great success!
(Of course, to maximize chances of alternate result, one must be as sexually attractive as possible, which results in costs to other areas of life, such as saving money on nerd-items to buy proper clothing, maintaing personal grooming, avoiding overeating, etc.)

Now, obviously I'm missing something here, since people do wind up in loving relationships, but this is definitely my situation. So where do loving relationships generate? Is it the "stem cell" idea mentioned, where one must make intentions known after meeting but before friendship germinates? If so, can we deliniate a window for this based on several variables: time spent face-to-face, time spent on phone/IM, length of e-mail conversation, time since first meeting?

Or is this a case of quantum theory, where simply asking those questions changes the results? That is, the very act of determining strategy and tactics to find romance lessens the chance thereof?

In other words, if we agree that ladder theory is incorrect, what theory is correct most applicable to the situation?

[xkcdpasta]

Sweet mother of God, I'd sure as hell like to barrel up all the angst on this thread and then work to get my car running on it. Fuel crisis over! There's a good tanker's worth here for sure, if only I could get it to the UK without it being taken by pirates.

What will people start doing differently though? Will it be a case of growing a pair and asking the girl out? Or suspending friendship priviledges and going into a sulk until she notices? Or trying to act more like a stick guy with faecal looking hair? Of the three, growing a pair and asking is by far the best. You don't learn to ski by supporting the mountain through thick and thin, carrying its books, doing its IT homework and making 'honest and helpful' comments about the snowboarders who are having a lot of fun riding it. You get up the top, give it a go, fall over. Repeat until win. There are plenty of other analogies that work to greater or lesser degrees, for example fishing and glass-blowing. Analogies that don't work as well include maths and stamp collection.

I hope everyone doesn't act on the moral, whatever it is, all at once though, I don't think the female (for this is undoubtedly a predominantly male trait) population of earth is ready. Or this could be the catalyst for the next phase of the Rising of the Meek.

[Sidescan]

I've read and enjoyed xkcd for a long time, and this is the first time I've been motivated to register and post on the forum.

Randall has swung and missed. Ususally when he wanders off the humourous path, the comic has something in particular to recommend it - something such as poignancy, raising an interesting philosophical point, or superb characterisation in a minimal narrative space - but I'm at a loss to say what it is we're supposed to enjoy about the over-long adventures of a glutton for punishment as he wallows in self pity.

And to everyone who has posted saying this comic somehow describes their life: slap yourself in the face. Hard.