1 W laser pointer hits the market.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby CivilDefense700 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:06 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
TaintedDeity wrote:Yeah, it'd kill them if by some chance you happen to get them but you'd also blind yourself and anybody else in the room.
Not 'great'.

I can just imagine, a humid houston evening, sittin on the back porch in the dark, with laser glasses on, and a cold beer in the hand, watching WW2 get reenacted in the backyard with mosquitos. PewPew!

The war in the Pacific specifically.
Pew! I just took out a jap dive bomber!

But seriously, alcohol plus class 4 lasers, almost a bad as alcohol plus guns.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Vaniver » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:32 pm UTC

CivilDefense700 wrote:But seriously, alcohol plus class 4 lasers, almost a bad as alcohol plus guns.
I bet you this won't set alcohol on fire! You're on!
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:34 am UTC

A handheld would need some kind of wide beam setting to zap em.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:08 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Yeah, it'd kill them if by some chance you happen to get them but you'd also blind yourself and anybody else in the room.
Not 'great'.


I'm begining to think that you're overestimating the reflection/refaction risk of this device on a massive scale.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:59 am UTC

They do say not to shine it on anything within three feet of yourself (and apparently this is with the goggles) so probably not.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:21 am UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:They do say not to shine it on anything within three feet of yourself (and apparently this is with the goggles) so probably not.


There's a massive difference between "you risk being irradiated briefly" and "you will blind yourself"; I'm not disputing it could easily be reflected back at you, I'm disputing that that risk ipso facto constitutes certain instant blindness, rather than the more likely mild warming, or unpleasant sunburn.

Edit: If I was going to play with this thing seriously, I'd be buying better laser glasses, wearing all cotton underwear and nomex coveralls (which I'm lucky enough to have) and making sure any windows were adequately covered; at the very least until such time I fully understood how it's power translated into outcomes.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:33 am UTC

Yeah, I'm not saying the user with goggles is at risk for permanent blindness like TaintedDeity is, I'm saying the others around the user are.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:52 am UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying the user with goggles is at risk for permanent blindness like TaintedDeity is, I'm saying the others around the user are.


The point I'm trying to put across is that short of shining it at something made of glass, or high gloss, you're not going to reflect the whole collimated beam, nor does the beam home in on eyes like a malevalent hoovalloo...

There is a substantial risk, but this thread is definately hyperbolic about it.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Josephine » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:16 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
Sockmonkey wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying the user with goggles is at risk for permanent blindness like TaintedDeity is, I'm saying the others around the user are.


The point I'm trying to put across is that short of shining it at something made of glass, or high gloss, you're not going to reflect the whole collimated beam, nor does the beam home in on eyes like a malevalent hoovalloo...

There is a substantial risk, but this thread is definately hyperbolic about it.

What is being said is that this is so powerful, diffuse reflections are strong enough to cause blindness. If you consider, say, 1% of the beam to be reflected back in a way that it could hit your eye (massive overestimation), that means 10 mW. That would require several seconds to cause damage, easily enough time to look away. A kilowatt laser could do it, but not this.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:31 pm UTC

I was assuming that somebody waving this thing around trying to zap a tiny, fast moving object wouldn't be smart enough to wear any form of protection.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dream » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:16 pm UTC

Also, TD's goggles can handle anything. Even real acid, people, so he's not in any danger.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:10 pm UTC

Yup, I've no problem with handling acid people, real or otherwise.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:15 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Yup, I've no problem handing acid to people, real or otherwise.
How I first read this.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:55 am UTC

That too, I've even got my own labcoat.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Josephine » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:42 am UTC

Now I'm imagining TD in a labcoat walking up to some random person on the street, and handing them a flask of some really powerful acid.

note: the above works for both meanings of acid.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby phillipsjk » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:47 am UTC

I have blue-blocking goggles, and I have no idea what the Optical Density is. I suspect they don't block more than 99%, which would be an optical density of 2. The manufacturer requires 10 times the absorption for protection against quarter-second exposures. The other day I saw my friend wearing blue-blocking sunglasses. He didn't know the optical density either.

Yes, even 1 mW of radiation is dangerous to the retina.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Triangle_Man » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:32 pm UTC

Gentlmen, I have another solution to this dilema; the laser should come equiped with protective eyewear. That way the user could lessen the risk of blindness to at least themselves and look badass while cooking up a piece of toast with their awsome new blue laser.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:39 pm UTC

Triangle_Man wrote:Gentlmen, I have another solution to this dilema; the laser should come equiped with protective eyewear. That way the user could lessen the risk of blindness to at least themselves and look badass while cooking up a piece of toast with their awsome new blue laser.

It does but don't worry I don't click links either.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dauric » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:16 pm UTC

Kyrn wrote:
Outchanter wrote:
nbonaparte wrote:
Kyrn wrote: It also has the advantage of being silent and inconspicuous (maybe, depending on how visible the laser is).

It's a beacon right back to you.

So if someone blinds you, you just have to look back along ... wait.

Witnesses.

As was mentioned earlier, if a bodyguard suddenly goes blind he's not going to keep standing around doing nothing, he's going to start yelling that they're under attack, get their VIP to cover, etc, etc, etc. It flags that the sniper is operating in the area, and makes everyone go on alert and look for sniping positions.
Dauric wrote:A sniping laser is only effective if you can bring to bear enough energy to flash-boil the water in the brain tissues after penetrating the skull.

Why would a sniper need to cook the whole brain instead of just slicing through vital parts of it? Or through vital arteries, for that matter?

Boiling is a lot easier (in terms of energy usage) than flash burning/explosion. Note that this doesn't actually require physically boring a hole through, radiation alone is sufficient.

However you damage the head, it has to be done quickly. That's why I say Flash-boil the water in the tissues, though it doesn't need to boil the -entire- brain, though if you're cooking through the skull with heat radiated from the beam you're looking to boil the entire brain anyway. Also attacking a specific part of the brain is difficult because see-through brain cases are not standard issue. Add to the skull hair and/or a hat and it's harder to tell where any specific brain structure lies. Sniping with firearms makes use of the fact that after penetrating the skull even jacketed rounds will tumble inside the tissues, becoming a whirling tissue-blender before splattering on the backside of the skull (usually blowing a larger hole on the exit wound, but some small caliber rounds are said to "pinball" inside the human skull). A conventional sniper firearm doesn't need to hit "vital arteries" or selected portions of the brain, the impact is a whole brain shredder. That's where a pinhole beam just doesn't cut it unless it has enough radiant energy to do damage well beyond the coherent light track. Surviving nail-guns to the head is surprisingly common, not to mention the survival from even more serious impacts.

It has to be done quickly because you don't have a long window of opportunity to accomplish the task, your shot needs to be no longer than a similar attack from a rifle. A weapon that takes time for the effect to be felt is useless unless symptoms start only after the entire attack has been completed (Poisoning or the infamous soviet "Thorium Umbrella", the symptoms of the thorium pellet releasing radiation in the system won't be felt until hours after the event, but by the time they are felt the target is just waiting to die). If you're slowly heating their brain they're going to begin having symptoms of heatstroke, which will trigger their bodyguards to get them to a hospital quickly and now your target is covered and moving fast, if they're having heatstroke in the shade on a cool January morning those bodyguards are going to be looking for some sort of device pointed his way.

And then if you want to get away with it (as any professional would) you need to minimize "contact" with the target. The Thorium Umbrella relies on the assassin making it look like an accident bumping in to a complete stranger. Military snipers use the "Shoot and Scoot" method of remaining undetected, fire and move immediately to avoid the firing position being pinpointed.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Aardvarki » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:56 pm UTC

Having played with* many, many laser pointers in my time, up to and including a 650mW red laser pointer (yes, it was 650nm wavelength as well, but the power was 650mW), the amount of damage these things put out is being rather exaggerated by this thread.

The diodes are rated at up to 1W, but based on WL's normal laser specifications, this will probably actually only put out about 800mW of power. My 650mW pointer can, and will burn skin, if held on the same point of the skin of a moderately pale caucasian male for over half a second (A dark African-American would be burnt much more quickly). Of course, your natural reaction is to flinch quickly when the skin temperature reaches the scalding point (ca 60C), and thus it would be very difficult to actually cause REAL bodily harm with even a 1W pointer. This is how the Heat Ray works as well, though the Heat Ray affects a much larger diameter.

Also, from what I've read, these blue lasers have a greater beam divergence than most laser pointers on the market. That is to say, at a range greater than about 10 meters, this laser will not have nearly as much power density as a similar strength red laser. Also, my understanding is that WL does not equip these lasers with adjustable optics (you cannot adjust the focus on this pointer), thus you cannot set the beam to converge at 30m and melt things from far away.

Eye damage, on the other hand, is VERY EASY to cause with a pointer, and even moreso with a blue one. Anyone using this device without proper eye protection is a complete moron.

This is compounded by the Blue Light Hazard, which makes this laser more dangerous than an equal strength red laser. Blue light can cause skin cancer (in exactly the same way UV light can - though you're not likely to get cancer just from shining this laser at your skin for a short period of time, it is certainly possible because while a tanning bed will spread 1KW of UV light over your entire body, this laser can put nearly 1W into an area approximately 1/1,000,000th your skin's surface area - so approximately 1,000x the intensity of a tanning bed), and is even more dangerous to your eyesight than red light is.

So, while it would be nearly impossible to kill or maim someone directly using this laser, it is absolutely possible to permanently blind someone or give them skin cancer with it. This laser is absolutely a weapon (and, as a Class IV laser, it is classified as one), and should be handled like one. This thing absolutely can light a match, burn through cardboard, or pop a balloon at a short range (I would guess about 5m being the maximum with steady hands, longer if you have it mounted), and the beam will be very visible in the air in even relatively bright rooms. If you are using it at night, it WILL be a beacon pointing directly back to you.

All that said, I want one, I want one, I want one!!! However, I'll probably just buy the diode and put it in my own housing, so that I can pot it down to the minimum power it will lase at (I would guess about 500mW, though I haven't done the research on this particular diode). Plus, it's cheaper that way and I can put in my own optics.

*By "played with" - I'm a responsible adult, and I know that a laser is a weapon, not a toy. I build them for fun, and have a set of safety goggles for each color laser that I use. My next project is a laser scanner! (the device used to put on laser shows)
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:46 pm UTC

All I know is that although I have absolutely no reason to own one, I really want one now, before they get B&. It even looks like a light saber!
Maybe this has to do with my fascination with collecting dangerous consumer products. I really want to find some Jarts for my college friends and I to use this fall.
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Lucasfilm hits Wicked Lasers with cease-and-desist

Postby ATCG » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:19 pm UTC

Lucasfilm Ltd. has sent a cease-and-desist letter to Hong Kong-based Wicked Lasers, threatening legal action if it doesn't change its Pro Arctic Laser series or stop selling it altogether.

"It is apparent from the design of the Pro Arctic Laser that it was intended to resemble the hilts of our lightsaber swords, which are protected by copyright ... ," said the letter, dated last month and provided to CNN by Wicked Lasers.

The letter calls the company's newest laser "a highly dangerous product with the potential to cause blindness, burns and other damage to people and/or property."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/gaming.gadgets/07/06/light.saber.lucas
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:24 am UTC

Ha, of all the reasons to attack a company making high powered portable lasers, it's copyright infringement? It's kind of like arresting Al Capone for tax evasion. :lol:
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:07 am UTC

So are they gonna sue flashlight makers next? Some of the high end ones have some pretty cool casings too.
It's not like they even invented the concept of a sci-fi energy sword first. Asimov did that years earlier.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:42 am UTC

Good job that's not why they sued then, isn't it? The quote mentions specifically the hilt design which more than one person has said looks like that of a lightsaber.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Veora » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm UTC

Princess Marzipan wrote:Man, it really doesn't help that that thing looks like a lightsaber hilt.

TaintedDeity wrote:Good job that's not why they sued then, isn't it? The quote mentions specifically the hilt design which more than one person has said looks like that of a lightsaber.



Yep! i think most people actually thought that, can't blame LA for not wanting to be involved if someone goes blind through it.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Dibley » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:12 pm UTC

Yeah, I can imagine someone at lucasarts got cold sweats and visions of headlines like "Lightsaber toy blinds infant and pregnant woman and kitten", which, really, might be justified.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:35 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Good job that's not why they sued then, isn't it? The quote mentions specifically the hilt design which more than one person has said looks like that of a lightsaber.

I referenced that with the flashlight comment. The second part was me being snarky.
I think Dibley called it right.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Xeio » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:45 pm UTC

Dibley wrote:Yeah, I can imagine someone at lucasarts got cold sweats and visions of headlines like "Lightsaber toy blinds infant and pregnant woman and kitten", which, really, might be justified.
Except... that wicked lasers has never ever called their product a lightsaber (in fact, a laser pointer operates pretty much nothing like a lightsaber). At what point are you responsible for other people mislabeling your product?

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby meatyochre » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:46 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:At what point are you responsible for other people mislabeling your product?

Legally? Maybe never. From a PR standpoint they pretty much have to do this, though.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:18 pm UTC

Aardvarki wrote:the amount of damage these things put out is being rather exaggerated by this thread.
No, not really. People were well aware that the 1W thing won't bore a hole in your skin or whatever, but that it can cause serious and immediate eye damage. So I'm not sure what you thought was being overstated, unless you got confused about the tangential discussion about laser sniper weapons.

Dauric wrote:However you damage the head, it has to be done quickly. That's why I say Flash-boil the water in the tissues, though it doesn't need to boil the -entire- brain
Right, which is why a lethal laser weapon isn't as outlandish as you seem to think. Even flash-boiling a tiny volume of wet tissue will carve out a much larger hole from the steam. And sure, you still need a lot of power to do that, but you'd be using a pulsed laser, because you need to leave time for steam and debris to clear to maximize efficiency anyway, and laser drilling technology already exists.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Xeio » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:33 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Aardvarki wrote:the amount of damage these things put out is being rather exaggerated by this thread.
No, not really. People were well aware that the 1W thing won't bore a hole in your skin or whatever, but that it can cause serious and immediate eye damage. So I'm not sure what you thought was being overstated, unless you got confused about the tangential discussion about laser sniper weapons.
I'd say the constant comparison to a gun is definitely an overstatement of the danger.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:38 pm UTC

You mean the constant comparisons by just a couple of people, along with a quite reasonable explanation by Gelsamel of why it can make sense to say it's as dangerous as a gun, once you understand "danger" as meaning "total potential for harm given what we know about how likely people are to use the devices responsibly"?
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:48 am UTC

In other news, some fucker just tried to blind me with a green laser from the other side of the river while I was out cycling.

So yeah, a 1W laser will definitely be used by mutant hoodied slack-jawed abortions to attack random passers by. :evil:
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:35 am UTC

Ugh, being proven right should be way more fun and way less dangerous than that.

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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:17 pm UTC

If you'd had the blue one, you could have beaten him with superior firepower.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:52 pm UTC

As tempting as that would be, there would be a number of problems with that.

1) I would have had to look in the direction the green laser was coming from, further compounding the "he's trying to blind me" problem.
2) There may have been other random passers by I could have hit instead
3) There's a main road on that side of the river, and blinding the person controlling a tonne or more of very quickly moving metal seems like a very silly idea indeed.

Or were you thinking of some kind of anime-esque battle where two people shoot "lasers" at each other, the beams meet in the middle, and the characters can push the bright ball-shaped collision point back and forth depending on how much ninjutsu they possess?
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:59 pm UTC

The second one. Also there was bullet time, made especially unrealistic what with the laser beams acting more like Star Wars blasters, with their less than C speed and what not.
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Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:54 pm UTC

Dream wrote:Also, TD's goggles can handle anything. Even real acid, people, so he's not in any danger.


I thought they did nothing!
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TaintedDeity
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:22 pm UTC
Location: England;

Re: 1 W laser pointer hits the market.

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:01 pm UTC

Nope, that was Radioactive Man. We don't even look alike...
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