Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

Heisenberg
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
Location: Uncertain

Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:05 pm UTC

The Electronic Frontiers Foundation has secured a copy of the agreement Apple makes all App developers sign. Here's their summary:
EFF wrote:Overall, the Agreement is a very one-sided contract, favoring Apple at every turn. That's not unusual where end-user license agreements are concerned (and not all the terms may ultimately be enforceable), but it's a bit of a surprise as applied to the more than 100,000 developers for the iPhone, including many large public companies. How can Apple get away with it? Because it is the sole gateway to the more than 40 million iPhones that have been sold. In other words, it's only because Apple still "owns" the customer, long after each iPhone (and soon, iPad) is sold, that it is able to push these contractual terms on the entire universe of software developers for the platform.

In short, no competition among app stores means no competition for the license terms that apply to iPhone developers.

If Apple's mobile devices are the future of computing, you can expect that future to be one with more limits on innovation and competition (or "generativity," in the words of Prof. Jonathan Zittrain) than the PC era that came before. It's frustrating to see Apple, the original pioneer in generative computing, putting shackles on the market it (for now) leads. If Apple wants to be a real leader, it should be fostering innovation and competition, rather than acting as a jealous and arbitrary feudal lord. Developers should demand better terms and customers who love their iPhones should back them.

The Reaper
Posts: 4008
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Contact:

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby The Reaper » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:21 pm UTC

But many of us already don't buy apple products specifically for the way fapple acts. Its not like its something new. They've acted that way since the beginning of the PC wars, when you had to pay for a license to develop apple software and didn't for the other OSs. (cept maybe unix? iono o_O )(my history is sometimes shoddy, feel free to correct me)

User avatar
Coffee Stain
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:23 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Coffee Stain » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:38 pm UTC

The developers can and will demand better terms, but ultimately, I suspect (and Apple concurs) that Apple's stringent restrictions on development is better for the iPhone in the long run. "Being on the side of developers" cannot have unlimited usefulness, and that diminishing usefulness would presumably eventually trickle down to the developers.

Of course though, Apple had retained a certain utility in keeping the stringent terms relatively under wraps. (Was this indeed the case? Hasn't developer contracts been an issue for the iPhone for quite some time? To what extent are the things mentioned in the article "new" information?) Developers having a greater awareness of the benefits and restrictions for developing for this or any mobile device will force Apple to be more competitive in the market for easy and safe mobile development. (Just think if Windows 7 Phone development turned out to be a dream come true?)

Edit: Speaking of Windows 7 Phone Development...

User avatar
feedme
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:59 am UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby feedme » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:53 pm UTC

I remember reading something last fall about how there were tons of app developers, even some of the bigger name ones, who hadn't recieved payment from Apple.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Vaniver » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:03 am UTC

This is the thing that amuses me about people claiming Microsoft was a monopoly- Steve Jobs / Apple wants to be a monopolist more than Microsoft ever did. The difference is that Microsoft was successful, and so people noticed them instead of Apple- until now, that is.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
Josephine
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:53 am UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Josephine » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:05 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:This is the thing that amuses me about people claiming Microsoft was a monopoly- Steve Jobs / Apple wants to be a monopolist more than Microsoft ever did. The difference is that Microsoft was successful, and so people noticed them instead of Apple- until now, that is.

Apple is a marketing engine with a few good products. It couldn't hide its monopoly very well. Microsoft is more able to do so.
Belial wrote:Listen, what I'm saying is that he committed a felony with a zoo animal.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Vaniver » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:08 am UTC

nbonaparte wrote:Apple is a marketing engine with a few good products. It couldn't hide its monopoly very well. Microsoft is more able to do so.
How exactly does one hide the fact that Windows is ubiquitous? Or what do you mean by Microsoft hiding its monopoly (if it has one)?
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
Josephine
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:53 am UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Josephine » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:23 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
nbonaparte wrote:Apple is a marketing engine with a few good products. It couldn't hide its monopoly very well. Microsoft is more able to do so.
How exactly does one hide the fact that Windows is ubiquitous? Or what do you mean by Microsoft hiding its monopoly (if it has one)?

Hmm. I guess I mean Microsoft has a monopoly, but people aren't as aware of it. Or, maybe they are, and people just don't care. but it's another thing entirely when you're talking about restricting content.
Belial wrote:Listen, what I'm saying is that he committed a felony with a zoo animal.

User avatar
the_bandersnatch
Actually not so frumious.
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:46 am UTC
Location: on a bed in a room inside a TV in a hotel room in a hotel on a Monopoly board

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby the_bandersnatch » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:32 am UTC

Coffee Stain wrote:The developers can and will demand better terms, but ultimately, I suspect (and Apple concurs) that Apple's stringent restrictions on development is better for the iPhone in the long run. "Being on the side of developers" cannot have unlimited usefulness, and that diminishing usefulness would presumably eventually trickle down to the developers.


What?!

FYI, nothing has unlimited usefulness, and diminishing usefulness does not stop something from being useful anyway.

nbonaparte wrote:Hmm. I guess I mean Microsoft has a monopoly, but people aren't as aware of it. Or, maybe they are, and people just don't care.


What?!

Have you had any experience with the computer industry of the past 20 years?

WTF's going on, do Logic and Reason not exist in this thread or something?
In girum imus nocte, et consumimur igni

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Dream » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:39 am UTC

the_bandersnatch wrote:do Logic and Reason not exist in this thread or something?

Those are two locked up programs. I think some people here would die of a heart attack if they ever learned about the digital music software situation. Or maybe.... logic and reason don't take capitals... :)
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
Coffee Stain
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:23 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Coffee Stain » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:06 am UTC

the_bandersnatch wrote:
Coffee Stain wrote:The developers can and will demand better terms, but ultimately, I suspect (and Apple concurs) that Apple's stringent restrictions on development is better for the iPhone in the long run. "Being on the side of developers" cannot have unlimited usefulness, and that diminishing usefulness would presumably eventually trickle down to the developers.

FYI, nothing has unlimited usefulness, and diminishing usefulness does not stop something from being useful anyway.

You have spoken a true statement. The point was to draw a parallel with the first thing people might think of when they hear the word "diminishing." Sure, there is utility in the diminishing variable, but it wouldn't be diminishing if the costs of reaping that utility didn't overtake it at some point.

But perhaps I'm only viewing this with the assumption that whatever is best for Apple is what Apple should do. (Or, more appropriately, what "we" should expect them to do.) I'm struggling to come up with another reliable metric by which we can judge (and subsequently condemn) such decisions, although I have a sneaking suspicion that such a thing is in fact well established.

User avatar
Godskalken
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 3:29 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Godskalken » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:08 am UTC

Microsoft have done a lot of shitty things in their time, but it seems to me Apple have done exactly the same things, except also getting away with them.
Examples:
In the EU, it was ruled that MS selling windows with WMP always preinstalled was hindering competition, and MS was forced to fork windows into standard eds. without WMP and "media center" eds. with WMP. Mac OS always comes with iTunes and quicktime.
In the EU, quite recently actually, the same was decided regarding preinstalled internet explorer in windows. However, since MS cannot sell an OS without a browser, it was decided that the user must be provided with a choice of browsers. Currently all european win users who has IE as their standard browser automatically gets an update that informs them about different browsers, and the browser they choose is automatically installed. Nothing similar happens to mac users. Linky: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/03/01/euro ... index.html
In the US, around 2000 I believe, (I'm a little blurry on this issue, so please correct me if I'm wrong) it was ruled that MS' deal with hardware manufacturers was unfair to consumers. After this, any person who bought a PC with Win preinstalled could demand a refund for the OS if she/he removed windows from the machine. Nothing similar has ever been offered to mac users.

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Dream » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:56 pm UTC

Godskalken wrote:In the US, around 2000 I believe, (I'm a little blurry on this issue, so please correct me if I'm wrong) it was ruled that MS' deal with hardware manufacturers was unfair to consumers. After this, any person who bought a PC with Win preinstalled could demand a refund for the OS if she/he removed windows from the machine. Nothing similar has ever been offered to mac users.

This betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. Apple is its own company, controlling its own products. It can behave as it wishes because it enjoys a perfectly legal monopoly over those products from the moment it ships them. Microsoft exerts monopolistic control over other people's products. Buy a Dell and you get Windows plus a bunch of bloatware. That's fine if MS is entirely scrupulous in its business practices, but it has not been, and has been seen to be leveraging its market position to affect other manufacturer's products. Apple doesn't do that, because Apple only works with Apple products.

IPhone and iPad developers are more like black box software engineers. You can bet if you were writing on contract for TiVo or Xbox, there would be heavy restrictions on your work, some of them for trade secret reasons, others to ensure absolutely that the product works as advertised. The iPhone is no different. Just because the software is sold separately, people think it has to be just like in a desktop computer. It doesn't. Start thinking of the product as it is, rather than as an ideological abomination, and it makes perfect sense.
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7459
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Zamfir » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:11 pm UTC

Dream wrote:IPhone and iPad developers are more like black box software engineers. You can bet if you were writing on contract for TiVo or Xbox, there would be heavy restrictions on your work, some of them for trade secret reasons, others to ensure absolutely that the product works as advertised. The iPhone is no different. Just because the software is sold separately, people think it has to be just like in a desktop computer. It doesn't. Start thinking of the product as it is, rather than as an ideological abomination, and it makes perfect sense.


Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is. Where worse means "Apple could siphon off even more cash just for existing".

And the desktop OS market suggests that once an OS gets seriously large, it becomes very hard to replace it.

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3900
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Dauric » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:37 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:
Dream wrote:IPhone and iPad developers are more like black box software engineers. You can bet if you were writing on contract for TiVo or Xbox, there would be heavy restrictions on your work, some of them for trade secret reasons, others to ensure absolutely that the product works as advertised. The iPhone is no different. Just because the software is sold separately, people think it has to be just like in a desktop computer. It doesn't. Start thinking of the product as it is, rather than as an ideological abomination, and it makes perfect sense.


Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is. Where worse means "Apple could siphon off even more cash just for existing".

And the desktop OS market suggests that once an OS gets seriously large, it becomes very hard to replace it.


Windows has it's position precisely because it didn't require MS's support if you wanted to publish something. If you were going to develop new software, new hardware or peripherals the IBM Architecture was an open-enough standard that you could start a company to make a video-card or a sound-card, or a game-controller-card, or a scanner, or a new monitor... and all the related software, or software that worked with someone else's hardware, or just software in general.

Now when 95/98 came out things began to change. MS had the lock on 90% of the market as they still do, but buggy OS-ware was making Linux a preferable option for the Comp-Sci guys. The Windows OS was being engineered to be more "Apple Like", which alienated the people who used computers like custom-car-hotrodders like customizing engine components, but for the majority of users it's just a computer the way for most drivers it's just a car.

Most of the current complaints about MS aren't so much that they're a monopoly, since in the computer realm having a standard is useful for programmers to know what they're working with, but that MS has been increasingly locking down the OS, and/or obfuscating what you need to do to properly administer the computer. With MS's tacit (and in some cases explicit) support of DRM and Rootkits that can't be removed without completely wiping the machine only reinforces this image (and the reality) that MS is locking down the system in such a way that it takes control of the computer away from it's owner.

Apple's generally (though not always) frowned on the end-user modifying hardware, or OS settings, and while it used to be possible to use non-Apple hardware, Apple made a point of making their own peripherasl that they'd openly prefer their users to stick with. Again this began to change as MS came out with Win 95/98 and Apple lost it's own monopoly on "User Friendly" window/Icon interfaces.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Dream » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:41 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is.

No, iPhone will never be anything like Windows, because it's a hardware product. No one can make you buy one because you need a PC or a server and have to pay for the license you don't need. No one can make you buy one at all, you can just buy another smart phone and use that. Compatibility and OS familiarity are not issues with smartphones the way they are in desktop environments. There will be Andriod, Windows and Linux smartphones, and developers and consumers alike will be able to choose which to use. None of them will be able to force their products on anyone.
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3900
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Dauric » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
Zamfir wrote:Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is.

No, iPhone will never be anything like Windows, because it's a hardware product. No one can make you buy one because you need a PC or a server and have to pay for the license you don't need. No one can make you buy one at all, you can just buy another smart phone and use that. Compatibility and OS familiarity are not issues with smartphones the way they are in desktop environments. There will be Andriod, Windows and Linux smartphones, and developers and consumers alike will be able to choose which to use. None of them will be able to force their products on anyone.


I think that's true for now, but only because smartphones are in their "Hardware Infancy". Back when home computers were first appearing on the market there were full-computer-type machines by Atari, Commodore, IBM, Apple, Altair, and more. At some point one of these hardware vendors is going to reach a critical-mass of utility just as PCs did in the late 80's/early 90's.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7459
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Zamfir » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:05 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
Zamfir wrote:Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is.

No, iPhone will never be anything like Windows, because it's a hardware product. No one can make you buy one because you need a PC or a server and have to pay for the license you don't need. No one can make you buy one at all, you can just buy another smart phone and use that. Compatibility and OS familiarity are not issues with smartphones the way they are in desktop environments. There will be Andriod, Windows and Linux smartphones, and developers and consumers alike will be able to choose which to use. None of them will be able to force their products on anyone.

Hopefully, yes. On the other hand, Apple clearly hopes that there will be an iphone/ipad infrastructure that goes beyond current smartphone tricks.

If that works out, there might be at some point a wide range of Apple-only apps that people really need (for whatever reason). I can imagine a situation not unlike like windows, expect that this time you need to buy both the OS and the hardware from Apple.

I don't know how everything will work out, but an Apple-dominated and important mobile market seems at least a possibility. Google for example seems to fear it enough to spend serious effort in a field not really theirs, in order to prevent such a situation.

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:55 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is. Where worse means "Apple could siphon off even more cash just for existing".

And the desktop OS market suggests that once an OS gets seriously large, it becomes very hard to replace it.

But this won't happen because while I can run Windows on any x86 machine currently made, iPhone OS will only run on an iPhone. Android (and I guess Windows 7 Phone) has a far better chance of doing this than iPhone.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7459
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Zamfir » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:09 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
Zamfir wrote:Just because it makes perfect sense doesn't make it a good thing. If something like the iphone OS + appstore ever gets a power position like Windows has, it would be even worse than windows already is. Where worse means "Apple could siphon off even more cash just for existing".

And the desktop OS market suggests that once an OS gets seriously large, it becomes very hard to replace it.

But this won't happen because while I can run Windows on any x86 machine currently made, iPhone OS will only run on an iPhone. Android (and I guess Windows 7 Phone) has a far better chance of doing this than iPhone.

But why is it impossible that Apple gets a 90% market share in smart mobile platforms? Android exists because Google thought an Apple-dominated market was a good possibility.

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:32 pm UTC

For exactly that reason. They saw the possibility and did something to ensure it didn't happen. Android phones are selling well, and iPhone is still trailing behind Symbian and Blackberry on a worldwide scale.

The Reaper
Posts: 4008
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Contact:

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby The Reaper » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:22 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:For exactly that reason. They saw the possibility and did something to ensure it didn't happen. Android phones are selling well, and iPhone is still trailing behind Symbian and Blackberry on a worldwide scale.

Might that be because of the AT&T only bullshit?

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3900
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Dauric » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:33 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:For exactly that reason. They saw the possibility and did something to ensure it didn't happen. Android phones are selling well, and iPhone is still trailing behind Symbian and Blackberry on a worldwide scale.

Might that be because of the AT&T only bullshit?


The AT&T Only bullshit is compounded with the AppStore only bullshit, and Apple's broader-spectrum "Our products only" bullshit and "Users are too stupid to upgrade their machines" bullshit.

It's the same policy that nailed them to a 10% market share in the PC markets in the first place.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:55 pm UTC

The Reaper wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:For exactly that reason. They saw the possibility and did something to ensure it didn't happen. Android phones are selling well, and iPhone is still trailing behind Symbian and Blackberry on a worldwide scale.

Might that be because of the AT&T only bullshit?

No, because the AT&T bullshit only applies to the US. Symbian is nearly 50% of the worldwide market (while having a very small chunk of the US market), with Blackberry about 5% above iPhone.
Dauric wrote:The AT&T Only bullshit is compounded with the AppStore only bullshit, and Apple's broader-spectrum "Our products only" bullshit and "Users are too stupid to upgrade their machines" bullshit.

It's the same policy that nailed them to a 10% market share in the PC markets in the first place.

:roll:

Yes, upgradeable smartphones are common and normal.

And they have a 90% market share in the pricerange they sell in, so.

User avatar
cjmcjmcjmcjm
Posts: 1158
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 am UTC
Location: Anywhere the internet is strong

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:22 am UTC

Dauric wrote:
The Reaper wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:For exactly that reason. They saw the possibility and did something to ensure it didn't happen. Android phones are selling well, and iPhone is still trailing behind Symbian and Blackberry on a worldwide scale.

Might that be because of the AT&T only bullshit?


The AT&T Only bullshit is compounded with the AppStore only bullshit, and Apple's broader-spectrum "Our products only" bullshit and "Users are too stupid to upgrade their machines" bullshit.

It's the same policy that nailed them to a 10% market share in the PC markets in the first place.

No. It's because all their products are expensive (on an absolute scale, we can debate value in another thread) and Apple doesn't force OEMs to bundle their software along with OEM crapware. They actually forbid other OEMs from installing their OS in order to avoid writing massive driver libraries and cheapening the Apple experience by making a machine that sux.
Also, don't use market share as an objective indicator of the quality/value of a product. Which is a better car: a Ford Taurus or a Ferrari? Which one do you see on the road?
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark

DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.

User avatar
cjmcjmcjmcjm
Posts: 1158
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 am UTC
Location: Anywhere the internet is strong

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:26 am UTC

Dauric wrote:Stuff about M$ anti-trust lawsuits in the EU

I believe the EU ordered a non-WMP Player Windows, but no one buys it. I think the sales figures for the non-WMP Windows were something like 300 total units.

I've heard about the browser screen being effective, though. I'm not sure what benefit to Joe Consumer having a choice of intertube browsers has to him, but Opera apparently is the big winner from this move. I wonder if their in-brower torrent client has anything to do with it… For the geeks, though…
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark

DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7459
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Zamfir » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:29 am UTC

Endless Mike wrote:For exactly that reason. They saw the possibility and did something to ensure it didn't happen. Android phones are selling well, and iPhone is still trailing behind Symbian and Blackberry on a worldwide scale.


For the issue people worry about, lock-in to a system based on the apps available, I don't think Symbian and Blackberry are the main competitors. Those are mainly phone-plus systems, that quickly start to feel clumsy if you move away from a handful of core activities. For such a system, lock-in is not so likely, as a competitor platform has only to replicate the relatively few core functionalities like calling, texting/mailing and browsing.

The iphone/ipad, Android, and presuambly Nokia's Maemo, are intended more as general-purpose systems, somewhat closer to a PC in functionality. That makes it possible that a system has so many (third-party) functionalities that a new system can't hope to cover them all. You can already see this happening to the Iphone.

At the moment, the unique apps for the Iphone are mostly relatively unimportant to people. But it seems likely that as time goes by a lot of people will have some must-have app that is not available elsewhere. By that time, the other systems need to have their own base of must-have applications, or they can forget it.

User avatar
phillipsjk
Posts: 1213
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:09 pm UTC
Location: Edmonton AB Canada
Contact:

Apple prohibits code generation for iPhone 4.0

Postby phillipsjk » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:36 pm UTC

Looks like Apple is doing their best to kill the iPhone platform.
Apple iPhone 4.0 SDK license wrote:3.3.1 … Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
- Can't link directly because I am not part of the Apple developer program

As weston (a Slashdot commenter) pointed out, many popular and compelling Apps rely on code generation.

Further reading:
More information about the upcoming iPhone 4.0 OS.
Chris Foresman wrote:Apple CEO Steve Jobs detailed seven major new features that he described as "tentpoles" for the OS. Addressing the number one request of most users is a new app multitasking system. Jobs explained that implementing multitasking is easy if battery life and application performance isn't a concern, but Apple has taken its time to develop a system that it says avoids these common pitfalls. "We weren't the first to this party, but we're going to be the best," Jobs said.
Did you get the number on that truck?

v1nsai
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:15 am UTC
Location: Florida

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby v1nsai » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:50 am UTC

Apple has shit on more than developers, they're shitting on customers now. Apple is dropping support for iPhone 2G and the 1st gen iPod Touches. It's been almost 3 years since it first hit the markets, and it's now completely unsupported. If you've ever skipped an iPhone update, you know how long you will be able to use the market before every other new app you try to download tells you it requires the new version, at least that happened to me when I skipped 3.1.2. After about 4 or 5 months half the stuff I tried to download required this minor update, I might as well have tried to download a new RSS reader on a fucking rock with an apple sticker on it.

They also came down even harder on developers, making it illegal to use anything but Apple frameworks, though this seems to have been targeted almost singularly at Adobe and Flash CS5 but everyone has to suffer with them. I've got more details and links here if anyone is interested.
C:\dos
C:\dos.run
run dos.run

User avatar
Xeio
Friends, Faidites, Countrymen
Posts: 5097
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Location: C:\Users\Xeio\
Contact:

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Xeio » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:18 am UTC

After this, plus the inconsistent removal of apps from the app store, I'm kinda surprised developers are still interested. I guess there is money to be made, and all that, even if you have to whore yourself out to do it...

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:51 pm UTC

v1nsai wrote:Apple has shit on more than developers, they're shitting on customers now. Apple is dropping support for iPhone 2G and the 1st gen iPod Touches. It's been almost 3 years since it first hit the markets, and it's now completely unsupported.

This is somewhere between surprising and not since the 2G hardware is mostly identical to the 3G, but at the same time, Apple isn't really known for being shy about dropping support for older hardware. I do kind of have to wonder how many are actually still out there being used regularly, though.

User avatar
JayAr
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:26 pm UTC

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby JayAr » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:25 pm UTC

Yes I agree that Apple is more restrictive than Microsoft. I mainly know this from trying to sell an app for the I-Phone, felt restricted and went to work with XNA (Which I hope will not derail this thread), I pay 100 USD and I have a year to devout to making and testing games for the Xbox.

Back to topic, why did Apple do this stuff in the first place?
nyeguy wrote:Bacon isn't a sin. It clogs your arteries and brings you to god faster.


I actually truly failed the Turing Test

v1nsai
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:15 am UTC
Location: Florida

Re: Apple Shits on iPhone Developers

Postby v1nsai » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:15 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
v1nsai wrote:Apple has shit on more than developers, they're shitting on customers now. Apple is dropping support for iPhone 2G and the 1st gen iPod Touches. It's been almost 3 years since it first hit the markets, and it's now completely unsupported.

I do kind of have to wonder how many are actually still out there being used regularly, though.


I was still using my iPod touch :( I'm pretty bummed about losing it it has been constantly with me for years. I do have a shiny new android phone now though, that itouch will be the last apple product ill own.
C:\dos
C:\dos.run
run dos.run


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests