Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:21 pm UTC

(...sigh...)
— the American consumer — will continue to absorb the cost of the tariff.

Both he and Simard agree on one thing:
This aluminum tariff is best understood as a new tax on U.S. manufacturers and consumers,
rather than a killer blow to Canada's modern and efficient aluminum industry.
The Law the U.S. is sighting in a National Security Law.
It seems Canada is offended to be called a 'risk' to the U.S.

Europe is sitting down with Mexico.
Canada is a jilted Best Friend.

Gee.
It is like 'someone' is working to damage our relationships and reputation.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:24 pm UTC

He's going to build a wall around the USA and make teachers and former coal miners pay for it.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:23 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:He's going to build a wall around the USA and make teachers and former coal miners pay for it.

it'll be worth it cuz it'll make the Democrats mad...

In all seriousness, the economy is growing, so It'll take a while before the damage is felt widely.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:23 pm UTC

All Trump had to do was sit back and take the undue credit for the economy. Might've known he'd find a way to screw it up.

I wonder how effective the targeted tariffs will be, in terms of how much they affect those industries and who the workers blame. Obviously a lot of them will blame the EU, Canada etc for the retaliatory tariffs, but surely some of them will blame Trump.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:50 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:All Trump had to do was sit back and take the undue credit for the economy. Might've known he'd find a way to screw it up.

I wonder how effective the targeted tariffs will be, in terms of how much they affect those industries and who the workers blame. Obviously a lot of them will blame the EU, Canada etc for the retaliatory tariffs, but surely some of them will blame Trump.


I think part of the idea would be the lobbyist's in the industries rather than the popular vote (i.e., the workers).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:01 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I think part of the idea would be the lobbyist's in the industries rather than the popular vote (i.e., the workers).
The lobbyist's what?

Seriously though, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. The lobbyists would blame Trump but the workers won't?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:08 pm UTC

I'm not sure I understand the whole point of the tariffs.

Steel is an industry, but it's not manufacturing. It's a primary sector industry like timber or farming, and while it's a process that's a step or two above mining the raw resources themselves, the end product is an interchangeable commodity with any other steel*. While it's all well and good to have local primary industries that are capable of ramping up production if you get cut off, the money isn't in the primary industry, and hasn't been for centuries if not millenia. Just subsidize production capability but have everything mothballed, if it's that important. Let the other countries produce all the steel they can, buy up that steel for cheap and then sell it back to them at twice the price in the form of cars and such.



*ok I realize there's different grades of steel, and the Chinese steel is known to be both cheaper and far weaker; there's a reason that even the Russians could make ballpoint pens but the Chinese can't

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:34 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
Chen wrote:I think part of the idea would be the lobbyist's in the industries rather than the popular vote (i.e., the workers).
The lobbyist's what?

Seriously though, I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. The lobbyists would blame Trump but the workers won't?

Jose


I think the idea mostly is that the corporations affected by the tariffs would start sending an army of lobbyists to Washington to complain to, overwhelmingly, Republicans in the House/Senate that are up for re-election, about the tariffs, in the hopes that the Republicans would convince Trump to rescind the tariffs.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:27 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote: Just subsidize production capability but have everything mothballed
That's not so easy. It takes trained workers to produce steel (and other raw materials), and at the key moment they may not be available. They may not even exist. You might have to way overpay people to uproot themselves to become steelworkers, and (especially in the present environment) they'd find themselves at risk of "oops, changed my mind" after they quit their jobs, sold their houses, moved to a new town and got mortgages from a bank that will foreclose on them in an instant when imported steel is allowed back in (to end the national crisis). If you think Trump's election was an uprising, you ain't seen nuthin'.

Further, the still mills (and other mothballed production capability) will all be old technology. It might not even be relevant to whatever the new needs are.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:43 pm UTC

Build that wall with all that unexportable Hershey's chocolate! (Well, it's not like it's even edible, in the first place…)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:10 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Build that wall with all that unexportable Hershey's chocolate! (Well, it's not like it's even edible, in the first place…)

Hey, we Americans like the vomit taste!
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Grop » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:46 pm UTC

The US wanting out of world economy is quite a bold move; I wonder how many seasons will keep us entertained.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby emceng » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:46 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:This has been making the rounds in Canadian news, not sure if it's getting play in the American news or not: Counter-tariffs to target Republican leadership, swing states


They need to freaking tariff Trump. Charge his properties higher taxes, if he sells anything(like those stupid steaks) slap huge tariffs on that. Trump doesn't give a fuck about anyone except himself. Just look at the ZTE deal.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:11 pm UTC

Does he own any Canadian properties? I'm thinking one of his casinos would make an awesome homeless shelter...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:51 am UTC

"Trump could have 'shot James Comey' and not be prosecuted" - Giuliani

If he actually said this, or anything near it he should be disbarred in my opinion. Defending the actions that a dictator would take reflects poorly on the legal profession and the entire purpose of this country which is to avoid a dictatorship. Congress and the House might not do anything to Trump, but at the very least the legal profession could disbar Giuliani for this (though to be fair, I'm not sure if there are particular requirements for doing so).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:25 am UTC

Disbarred? What he is saying has legal merit. That a sitting President needs to be impeached before they can be indicted seems to be the current legal opinion, though never actually tested in court.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:15 am UTC

But he is still a civilian and thus subject to regular old police, right? I mean legally, not de facto; I doubt any cop arresting the president will have their job the following morning.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:37 am UTC

Chen wrote:Disbarred? What he is saying has legal merit.


My argument is that it breaks the spirit of the law. Tyrants shoot dissenters and people who oppose them. Defending that behavior is not in line with what a lawyer who is tasked with upholding the laws that prevent tyranny should be capable of doing. I can't say for sure whether it's actually grounds for doing so. However, if it is an option for him to be disbarred then I'd say it should happen to send a strong message that the judicial branch of government does not accept tyranny.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:36 am UTC

delete....
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Quercus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:50 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But he is still a civilian and thus subject to regular old police, right? I mean legally, not de facto; I doubt any cop arresting the president will have their job the following morning.


There is a reasonable legal opinion (as in the opinion is one that is held by reasonable lawyers; the situation itself is eminently unreasonable) that the president is constitutionally able to pardon *himself* of any crime. Presidential pardons can be issued at any time after the commission of the act to be pardoned, even if no charges have been filed, so technically Trump could shoot someone, immediately write himself a pardon and there would be no recourse via the courts, only via Congress. Podcast episodes with an actual constitutional law professor dealing with that and similar questions here:

https://trumpconlaw.com/3-pardon-power

https://trumpconlaw.com/5-presidential-immunity

https://trumpconlaw.com/14-prosecuting-a-president

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:59 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:But he is still a civilian and thus subject to regular old police, right? I mean legally, not de facto; I doubt any cop arresting the president will have their job the following morning.


There is a reasonable legal opinion (as in the opinion is one that is held by reasonable lawyers; the situation itself is eminently unreasonable) that the president is constitutionally able to pardon *himself* of any crime. Presidential pardons can be issued at any time after the commission of the act to be pardoned, even if no charges have been filed, so technically Trump could shoot someone, immediately write himself a pardon and there would be no recourse via the courts, only via Congress. Podcast episodes with an actual constitutional law professor dealing with that and similar questions here:

https://trumpconlaw.com/3-pardon-power

https://trumpconlaw.com/5-presidential-immunity

https://trumpconlaw.com/14-prosecuting-a-president


But he has to physically take out his pen and sign the pardon, giving the police a few seconds to tackle him to the ground...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:58 am UTC

gd1 wrote:My argument is that it breaks the spirit of the law. Tyrants shoot dissenters and people who oppose them. Defending that behavior is not in line with what a lawyer who is tasked with upholding the laws that prevent tyranny should be capable of doing. I can't say for sure whether it's actually grounds for doing so. However, if it is an option for him to be disbarred then I'd say it should happen to send a strong message that the judicial branch of government does not accept tyranny.


But he wasn't defending the action. He was stating what would happen. This was from the article YOU posted.

"I don't know how you can indict while he's in office. No matter what it is," he said.

The President's attorney said Trump would face impeachment rather than prosecution if he had shot former FBI Director James Comey in the Oval Office to end the Russia probe instead of firing him, which Trump did last May.

"If he shot James Comey, he'd be impeached the next day," Giuliani said to HuffPost. "Impeach him, and then you can do whatever you want to do to him."

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:57 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm not sure I understand the whole point of the tariffs.

Steel is an industry, but it's not manufacturing. It's a primary sector industry like timber or farming, and while it's a process that's a step or two above mining the raw resources themselves, the end product is an interchangeable commodity with any other steel*. While it's all well and good to have local primary industries that are capable of ramping up production if you get cut off, the money isn't in the primary industry, and hasn't been for centuries if not millenia. Just subsidize production capability but have everything mothballed, if it's that important. Let the other countries produce all the steel they can, buy up that steel for cheap and then sell it back to them at twice the price in the form of cars and such.



*ok I realize there's different grades of steel, and the Chinese steel is known to be both cheaper and far weaker; there's a reason that even the Russians could make ballpoint pens but the Chinese can't


Ehh, largely, where it is valid(and I'm certainly not claiming that every instance is), it's a way to counteract tariffs from the country. They charge heavy taxes on you, you charge heavy taxes right back, and it ends up sort of balancing out, or ideally, you negotiate a way to remove both. Some companies sell us lots of stuff cheaply, but have significant tariffs on the end results of those manufacturing chains.

It can also have some virtues when you consider differing regulatory environments and shared commons. If, say, China makes things very cheaply, but does so by putting out a ton of emissions, while say, European companies are both more expensive and less polluting, attempting to offset those additional shared costs via tariff might make sense.

Maintaining production is also considered a national security thing, mostly for prolonged conflicts like say, WW2, during which a lot of heavy industry turned out to be super essential, and basically won us the war. It's not a money thing, really(though it is for if you do it for protectionist reasons, rather than defense), but this concern can be valid. If you offshore all the heavy industry, you can end up vulnerable in a prolonged conflict. A mothballed factory with no trained workers is not nearly so viable as an operating, well trained industry. Not only does it take time to get people up to speed, in wartime, factories are often skewed a bit to produce other, related things. People who are already trained up on how things work are more able to deal with difficult changes than those who don't know how anything works at all.

The big problem is that protectionism is always there. Pretty much any country is advantaged by arranging a way of charging others tariffs and not being charged them in turn. So, pretty much every country has some motivation to try to justify unnecessary tariffs via the above reasons whenever possible. If you do it too much, and get retaliatory tariffs too frequently, you get a trade war, and everyone loses, but, yknow...prisoner's dilemma.

All countries have these valid needs in addition to protectionism, and unfortunately, it can be a bit of a tangled mess to figure out what's what and make everyone happy. So, tariffs definitely CAN be valid, but are definitely not always so.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:12 pm UTC

Yeah but it's steel, a commodity that is turned into other, much more valuable goods. You wouldn't place tariffs on imported oil, would you?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:49 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:
Chen wrote:Disbarred? What he is saying has legal merit.


My argument is that it breaks the spirit of the law. Tyrants shoot dissenters and people who oppose them. Defending that behavior is not in line with what a lawyer who is tasked with upholding the laws that prevent tyranny should be capable of doing.


He wasn't defending the behavior, he was giving his interpretation of what would happen as a result of the behavior, in terms of the law.

I can't say for sure whether it's actually grounds for doing so.


Giving a legal opinion is not grounds for being disbarred.

However, if it is an option for him to be disbarred then I'd say it should happen to send a strong message that the judicial branch of government does not accept tyranny.


The only message you'd be sending would be that a lawyer cannot give a legal opinion on a politically charged matter without fear of repercussion; which is kind of the opposite of the judicial branch not accepting tyranny.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:10 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Yeah but it's steel, a commodity that is turned into other, much more valuable goods. You wouldn't place tariffs on imported oil, would you?


Tons of basic commodities are subjected to tariffs, yes. Oil and related tariffs have indeed been a thing. In fact, we have some of the highest duties in the world on imported petroleum. Also, as recently as 2014, we had a .54 tariff placed on ethanol fuel, which was a bit odd...we subsidize our farmers to produce it, yet also discourage it's importation. IMO, the move was pretty straightforwardly protectionism.

On the whole, US tariffs are currently at or near the lowest levels ever. In particular, the US has unusually low tariffs on metals and minerals as compared to the rest of the world.

Politically, it's something of a reversal, as Reagan era times had the Republicans championing free trade, whereas now it seems protectionism is in fashion among the Republicans in power, and the Democrats have taken the opposition. So, right now it's kind of a clusterfuck of ideas on both sides of the fence as to how much protectionism is good and desirable. Both sides have substantial factions that are used to the ideas that their party had, which are nearly directly opposite to what they espouse now.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:37 pm UTC

by Tyndmyr:
Maintaining production is also considered a national security thing, mostly for prolonged conflicts like say, WW2, during which a lot of heavy industry turned out to be super essential, and basically won us the war. It's not a money thing, really(though it is for if you do it for protectionist reasons, rather than defense), but this concern can be valid.
Yes.
And; This is Why Canada feels so offended.
We were as One in defending North America against aggression.

Canada creates high quality metal using the low polluting power of water.
Yep....Breaking up our relationships is Putin's dream-come-true. (%#$*)
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Eowiel » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:07 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:On the whole, US tariffs are currently at or near the lowest levels ever. In particular, the US has unusually low tariffs on metals and minerals as compared to the rest of the world.


Do you have any info on that? I don't think the EU has high tariffs on metals and minerals, certainly not the amount the US will be imposing now, but I can't easily find any worldwide comparison on specific products.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:28 pm UTC

Eowiel wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:On the whole, US tariffs are currently at or near the lowest levels ever. In particular, the US has unusually low tariffs on metals and minerals as compared to the rest of the world.


Do you have any info on that? I don't think the EU has high tariffs on metals and minerals, certainly not the amount the US will be imposing now, but I can't easily find any worldwide comparison on specific products.


Certainly, Pew has a good quantity of data on the topic, and some can be found here: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/28/u-s-tariffs-vary-a-lot-but-the-highest-duties-tend-to-be-on-imported-clothing/

It's US-centric, but does include a fair number of references to European countries.

addams wrote:Yes.
And; This is Why Canada feels so offended.
We were as One in defending North America against aggression.


While Canada is an old ally, I don't think that the US keeping an industrial base is the reason they are offended by US political decisions.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:33 pm UTC

You are correct.
Canada has No problem with the U.S. having an industrial base.
Canada has supported the U.S. every day in every way.

Canada is offended because the U.S. is using a Law that calls Canada a threat to U.S. security.
Canada and Mexico are offended. How could any Nation Not be? We have a CEO that is a Troll!

In case you missed it, here is what a Canadian press conference looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHxzG-VdO_A
(sorry about the advert.)

(tisk...) I feel so sad.
I'd like to be a citizen of a level headed nation.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:51 am UTC

cphite wrote:
gd1 wrote:
Chen wrote:Disbarred? What he is saying has legal merit.


My argument is that it breaks the spirit of the law. Tyrants shoot dissenters and people who oppose them. Defending that behavior is not in line with what a lawyer who is tasked with upholding the laws that prevent tyranny should be capable of doing.


He wasn't defending the behavior, he was giving his interpretation of what would happen as a result of the behavior, in terms of the law.

I can't say for sure whether it's actually grounds for doing so.


Giving a legal opinion is not grounds for being disbarred.

However, if it is an option for him to be disbarred then I'd say it should happen to send a strong message that the judicial branch of government does not accept tyranny.


The only message you'd be sending would be that a lawyer cannot give a legal opinion on a politically charged matter without fear of repercussion; which is kind of the opposite of the judicial branch not accepting tyranny.


Then I've got to give Trump credit where it's due. You're telling me that suggesting tyranny is okay is protected by the rules written to oppose it by a nation whose founding document was written to declare independence from a tyrant king.

Trump may not be a particularly capable leader, but he is a master of gaming a system within the rules. It's not the first time either. He got a loan from his dad, then he built it up enough to fool Forbes into thinking he was wealthier than he was. Then he used that standing with Forbes to fool banks into making loans to him which he didn't pay back and made it prohibitively costly for them to collect. All of which was legal.

Now he's got the legislative branch voting in lockstep for him. He controls the executive branch. And where he has to he steps very artfully around the Judicial branch. He's even got a sizable portion of the population believing the snake oil he's selling really works. It's incredible. People really shouldn't call him stupid. He's an amazing manipulator and a genius at the one thing he's good at. I sincerely believe that he will wreck this country irreparably, but I've got to admit he's a genius at manipulating people.

I can't do anything for Trump's supporters, but at least since I can see it coming I can try and help my family. I am sorry for his supporters, but they've already chosen their path.

Chen wrote:
But he wasn't defending the action. He was stating what would happen. This was from the article YOU posted.

"I don't know how you can indict while he's in office. No matter what it is," he said.

The President's attorney said Trump would face impeachment rather than prosecution if he had shot former FBI Director James Comey in the Oval Office to end the Russia probe instead of firing him, which Trump did last May.

"If he shot James Comey, he'd be impeached the next day," Giuliani said to HuffPost. "Impeach him, and then you can do whatever you want to do to him."


Yes, and in that way he is basically taunting people by saying "we control your only methods of recourse because we control the legislative branch". The "impeached the next day" hardly even matters to him because of his follow-up statement. Hiding behind plausible deniability with taunts and insults that can be understood to be offensive, but are defensible on their face. These people are certainly the best people... at the worst things.

Even when Trump supporters defend this sort of behavior for vindictive reasons or otherwise, I still do regret what may happen to them in the long run. Maybe there will be enough resources to help them too.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:13 am UTC

gd1 wrote:... but at least since I can see it coming I can try and help my family.


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This guides explains the processes and conditions for applying for either German citizenship or a German permanent resident permit, explaining which option would be suitable considering your circumstances.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:39 am UTC

gd1 wrote:Yes, and in that way he is basically taunting people by saying "we control your only methods of recourse because we control the legislative branch". The "impeached the next day" hardly even matters to him because of his follow-up statement. Hiding behind plausible deniability with taunts and insults that can be understood to be offensive, but are defensible on their face. These people are certainly the best people... at the worst things.

Even when Trump supporters defend this sort of behavior for vindictive reasons or otherwise, I still do regret what may happen to them in the long run. Maybe there will be enough resources to help them too.


I dont know what to tell you. What he is saying isn’t anything new or novel. This is the justice department’s position since Nixon. Hell its even formalized in their archives:
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... 0222_0.pdf

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:21 pm UTC

addams wrote:You are correct.
Canada has No problem with the U.S. having an industrial base.
Canada has supported the U.S. every day in every way.

Canada is offended because the U.S. is using a Law that calls Canada a threat to U.S. security.
Canada and Mexico are offended. How could any Nation Not be? We have a CEO that is a Troll!


Canada and Mexico are exempt from the law, so the justification for offense is fairly thin.

In any case, losing our heavy industry is a reasonable US security concern. That is not at all the same thing as calling the Canadians a security threat.

Also, Canada collects tariffs on quite a few US products, so I don't see why they're so fussed about it.

Chen wrote:I dont know what to tell you. What he is saying isn’t anything new or novel. This is the justice department’s position since Nixon. Hell its even formalized in their archives:
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... 0222_0.pdf


Have to agree. It's not a sudden change, it's literally the way things have been. Now, I don't agree that it's the way things ought to be, but that's law and politics for you. In any case, it's not a creation of the Trump administration.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:08 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:Then I've got to give Trump credit where it's due. You're telling me that suggesting tyranny is okay is protected by the rules written to oppose it by a nation whose founding document was written to declare independence from a tyrant king.


I'm simply telling you that a lawyer cannot be disbarred for giving his opinion on a matter of law. Giuliani was asked a question and he gave an answer, using an exaggeration to make his point. The notion that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and that he can pardon himself, is not exactly a new idea. It's something that a lot of legal scholars believe to be true. Others believe it to be false. It's never really been tested - Nixon came close but he resigned before it came into play.

Trump may not be a particularly capable leader, but he is a master of gaming a system within the rules. It's not the first time either. He got a loan from his dad, then he built it up enough to fool Forbes into thinking he was wealthier than he was. Then he used that standing with Forbes to fool banks into making loans to him which he didn't pay back and made it prohibitively costly for them to collect. All of which was legal.


He is good at gaming the system, but "master" might be overselling it just a bit. Really there isn't a whole lot that Trump has done that hasn't been done by others, and done better; what you're describing is far more common than you might think... Not defending the behavior, mind you... just saying he's more common crook than evil genius when it comes to this stuff.

Now he's got the legislative branch voting in lockstep for him. He controls the executive branch. And where he has to he steps very artfully around the Judicial branch. He's even got a sizable portion of the population believing the snake oil he's selling really works. It's incredible. People really shouldn't call him stupid. He's an amazing manipulator and a genius at the one thing he's good at. I sincerely believe that he will wreck this country irreparably, but I've got to admit he's a genius at manipulating people.


Manipulating the legislative branch and deftly sidestepping the judiciary branch to get things that your party wants (and that in many cases, the other party does not) is pretty much the job description. And, while he's gotten more done than a lot of people expected him to get done; words like "amazing" and "genius" are, again, a bit of an oversell.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby emceng » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:34 pm UTC

I fail to see his accomplishments. There seem to be three. 1) pushing through a tax bill to benefit the wealthy. 2) pack the judicial branch with right wingers, and 3) Damage the bureaucracy by appointing terrible cabinet members.

All accomplishments if you have an anarcho-capitalist viewpoint, or ultra libertarian. Even mainstream conservatives should not consider these good things.

What other things has he gotten done? I don't consider train wrecks like his foreign policy to be getting things done.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:47 pm UTC

He might have possibly got to have a sit-down meeting with Kim Jong Un!

... Which every US president has had the option of doing, and has chosen not to as it validates the NK regime or something.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:48 pm UTC

emceng wrote:I fail to see his accomplishments. There seem to be three. 1) pushing through a tax bill to benefit the wealthy. 2) pack the judicial branch with right wingers, and 3) Damage the bureaucracy by appointing terrible cabinet members.

All accomplishments if you have an anarcho-capitalist viewpoint, or ultra libertarian. Even mainstream conservatives should not consider these good things.

What other things has he gotten done? I don't consider train wrecks like his foreign policy to be getting things done.


Politifact has a campaign promise tracker, if that's your bag.

I'm not sure why you think conservatives dislike the judicial branch being packed with right wingers. Even the more moderate conservatives usually view the judicial branch as too liberal, and thus, adding right wing members drags the median to about where they like it.

Other accomplishments include things like a lifetime ban on white house officials lobbying for foreign governments, dropping out of the Paris accords, got North Korea to release prisoners, and his executive order that for every new regulation added, two be repealed. These may not be accomplishments you like, but they generally appeal to his base.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby emceng » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:51 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
emceng wrote:I fail to see his accomplishments. There seem to be three. 1) pushing through a tax bill to benefit the wealthy. 2) pack the judicial branch with right wingers, and 3) Damage the bureaucracy by appointing terrible cabinet members.

All accomplishments if you have an anarcho-capitalist viewpoint, or ultra libertarian. Even mainstream conservatives should not consider these good things.

What other things has he gotten done? I don't consider train wrecks like his foreign policy to be getting things done.


Politifact has a campaign promise tracker, if that's your bag.

I'm not sure why you think conservatives dislike the judicial branch being packed with right wingers. Even the more moderate conservatives usually view the judicial branch as too liberal, and thus, adding right wing members drags the median to about where they like it.

Other accomplishments include things like a lifetime ban on white house officials lobbying for foreign governments, dropping out of the Paris accords, got North Korea to release prisoners, and his executive order that for every new regulation added, two be repealed. These may not be accomplishments you like, but they generally appeal to his base.


Your list isn't accomplishments though. Let's break them down.
1) lifetime ban on white house officials lobbying for foreign governments
--- what about the ones that are currently in there, and lobbying for foreign governments? Kushner and his ties to the middle east, the pretty obvious ZTE bribe handled by a Trump campaign staffer(admittedly not a White Houes person, but still). It's an accomplishment in the same way I have resolved to eat healthier, and not have any cake. Sure i had some yesterday, and tomorrow I might as well. But I can definitely say right at this moment, I'm not eating cake. Unless I am, behind closed doors, because this administration is as corrupt as they come.

2) dropping out of the Paris accords
--- I think this is a bad thing, but I guess his base will applaud it.

3) got North Korea to release prisoners
--- Yep, something most administrations have done. Obama got at least two people out of North Korea.

4) executive order that for every new regulation added, two be repealed
--- This is completely idiotic. It barely would trick a 5 year old. Hey honey, you're not allowed to have 2 candy bars, but I don't care if you put six into a bowl of ice cream!
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:04 pm UTC

cphite wrote:Not defending the behavior, mind you... just saying he's more common crook than evil genius when it comes to this stuff.
"Am I an innovator? Am I a genius?" "You're a swindler."
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.


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