2016 US Presidential Election

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
duckshirt
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:41 am UTC
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby duckshirt » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:25 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:It's at least possible he could well be America's first atheist president.

Jefferson?

Religiosity has declined among the white working class, much more than the white upper/middle class I think... possibly a factor in Trump beating out Cruz/Perry/Huckabee types
lol everything matters
-Ed

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10150
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:26 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Conversion camps are awful, yes. I've previously condemned them. I have bad news for you regarding Republican candidates, though. Most of them are lacking on gay rights. Trump is probably the best possible candidate for this issue in the party primaries. Yeah, he took on a veep that would appeal to the traditional people. That's what happens. But, the veep is a lot less important to the ticket than the president is.


Yeah, honestly, if you're looking for a silver lining in the Trump presidency, the fact that he isn't a religious nutjob is certainly one of the things you could be taking away from it. He's happy to pander to them for votes, but it seems fairly clear he's not personally invested in religious causes. You can tell just from the way he speaks that he isn't steeped in that culture (he doesn't even say "God Bless America").

It's at least possible he could well be America's first atheist president.


That's actually horrifying, since it'd "prove" Christians "right" about why we shouldn't trust atheists.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26453
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:30 pm UTC

Well he'd never actually admit it, because that would alienate too many of his supporters.

He'll just be retroactively cast as an atheist and all the support he got from religious types will be quietly ignored, like it is with Hitler.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

commodorejohn
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:21 pm UTC
Location: Placerville, CA
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby commodorejohn » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:31 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:I'm far less concerned with Trump's private personal beliefs (about anything) than with what he's willing to say and do to gain and maintain power.

This. Anybody who looks at a patently untrustworthy, amoral scoundrel in a position of power and thinks "well, at least he's kind of aligned with me demographically!" is a fool.
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
www.commodorejohn.com - in case you were wondering, which you probably weren't.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:49 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Don't panic. I'll remind you we are in the early stages of the Trump Era. In the first two years we will find out who is who and what is what.
It's not panic about Trump as it is panic about how indifferent to reality the right has become. I lament the far left and their insistence on pseudoscience, buuuuuuuuuuuuut this has certainly shifted my 'Oh man this is really a problem and we need to address it now' barometer.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:03 am UTC

My most immediate concern is that Trump's top priority is going to be to seek vengeance on the media outlets and journalists that gave him unfavorable coverage, as well as political opponents. This fucking scares me when combined with what Izawwlgood mentioned.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6456
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:08 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Thesh wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Yeah, honestly, if you're looking for a silver lining in the Trump presidency, the fact that he isn't a religious nutjob is certainly one of the things you could be taking away from it. He's happy to pander to them for votes, but it seems fairly clear he's not personally invested in religious causes. You can tell just from the way he speaks that he isn't steeped in that culture (he doesn't even say "God Bless America").

It's at least possible he could well be America's first atheist president.


Except that I expect this pretty much means that he's going to let the GOP in Congress do mostly whatever they want as long as it doesn't conflict with one of his issues. Especially if he thinks wants to be reelected in 2020. Trump really hasn't shown much concern one way or another for anything that doesn't directly affect him.


Sure, but that's still an improvement (in this particular area) over a Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, or even John Kasich presidency.

Look, all this really means is that if/when/in fantasyland, the Democrats take over Congress, that Trump will make a deal. That's all that means. Trump is surrounded by ultraconservatives, and the only exception was kicked out by Trump's son in law for revenge (Christie cut down). Who knows if Peter Thiel will stick his neck out for anyone other than himself.

Thesh wrote:My most immediate concern is that Trump's top priority is going to be to seek vengeance on the media outlets and journalists that gave him unfavorable coverage, as well as political opponents. This fucking scares me when combined with what Izawwlgood mentioned.

This is a big deal, except it won't matter to Republicans. Not enough of them, anyway.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/whi ... ght-trump/
In other news, who's gonna fight back against Trump? Democrats need only a few GOP senators, + 1 to cover defections in order to stop Trump legislatively. It looks...bad to subpar.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:18 am UTC

Kevin Drum notes that Trump's primary trait he looks for in a candidate is that they are people that he sees as enemies of his enemies. If that is going to be his main objective for his Presidency, I am fucking scared for this country.

http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/201 ... mp-roundup
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:35 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Kevin Drum notes that Trump's primary trait he looks for in a candidate is that they are people that he sees as enemies of his enemies. If that is going to be his main objective for his Presidency, I am fucking scared for this country.

http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/201 ... mp-roundup


How legitimate is "New York Post" ??

The story has not been replicated in the Washington Post (or really, any of my other news sources). Most others seem to reference that New York Post article.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:38 am UTC

That's a rag, but I wasn't really referring to that part. That said, his whole campaign he has disparaged the mainstream media, cut them off, and threatened to sue.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:52 am UTC

Thesh wrote:That's a rag, but I wasn't really referring to that part. That said, his whole campaign he has disparaged the mainstream media, cut them off, and threatened to sue.


I read that story as more of a black-mark on Rogers as opposed to one on Trump.

Everyone in Washington probably recognizes that Trump is the newbie here. Trump doesn't know the culture of DC or the song-and-dance you're supposed to do when talking to various officials. In contrast, Rogers is a high-ranking Navy officer. So he should know about the issue.

Hopefully the Obama <--> Trump transition team are looking into the issue, but that's for them to figure out. It was probably on Roger's plate to notify his superiors before speaking with Trump.

----------

Otherwise, Trump picking an experienced Navy Officer to head a military run organization? That doesn't seem... newsworthy... really. I would hope that Trump is meeting with a lot of Navy Officers as he's creating his transition team.

I find the off-the-record media meeting to be more worrisome personally. But I'd like someone to confirm that the New York Post is more legitimate than some rumor-mill Tabloid putting any weight to that side of the story.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:57 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Otherwise, Trump picking an experienced Navy Officer to head a military run organization? That doesn't seem... newsworthy... really.


Considering someone who is doing a horrible job today for a promotion seems pretty Newsworthy to me. Picking one incompetent buffoon is one thing, but this is a pattern the shows that his primary concern is spiting the left.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:08 am UTC

Thesh wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Otherwise, Trump picking an experienced Navy Officer to head a military run organization? That doesn't seem... newsworthy... really.


Considering someone who is doing a horrible job today for a promotion seems pretty Newsworthy to me. Picking one incompetent buffoon is one thing, but this is a pattern the shows that his primary concern is spiting the left.


The cause/effect here is inverted however. First, Rogers went to Trump to discuss things with him. THEN the Post creates the hit piece on Rogers.

Mind you, Rogers is allegedly the leader of NSA during Obama's term: aka right now. He hardly seems like a partisan pick to me. Under normal circumstances, promoting a Navy Admiral who was part of the previous Administration is generally seen as a bipartisan move to unite the country.

I'd have to look more into the criticisms at play here, but I dunno. As far as I can tell, Trump is promoting some Navy Admiral who was serving under Obama. And that's partisan... how exactly? I'm really not seeing how this is a bad move for Trump (at least, not before the Washington Post story came out. And I have my doubts that Trump would have had access to the information that was in that Post article when he was meeting with Rogers last week.)
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:16 am UTC

Oops, sorry, I was mixing him up with Flynn.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:23 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Oops, sorry, I was mixing him up with Flynn.


Considering that your entire post still mostly makes sense given the circumstances... I think its a fair mistake to make. Lol.

I'll agree with your post on Flynn, although my knowledge of him is also pretty weak.

EDIT: Although National Security Advisor isn't nearly as powerful as the Director of National Intelligence, so the Admiral Rogers choice is arguably the more important post to watch.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10150
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:28 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Don't panic. I'll remind you we are in the early stages of the Trump Era. In the first two years we will find out who is who and what is what.
It's not panic about Trump as it is panic about how indifferent to reality the right has become. I lament the far left and their insistence on pseudoscience, buuuuuuuuuuuuut this has certainly shifted my 'Oh man this is really a problem and we need to address it now' barometer.


Wait, are you talking about the left's advocacy of anarchism or communism of whatever name, their insistence on the appeal to nature fallacy, or something else?

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26453
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:39 am UTC

A real live scientist lamenting leftist pseudoscience suggests it's about the appeal to nature. Political systems can sometimes include a healthy dose of pseudoscience as well, but they are not themselves examples of pseudoscience and I doubt that's what he's talking about.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:30 pm UTC

What gmalivuk said. Also, prior to this election, one of my big sticking points was 'science education, funding, the environment, and getting rid of pseudoscience'. I recognize that the left is guilty of the pseudoscience part - a lot of very liberal people think alt-science/med is a good thing, aka, Jill stein, etc.

Now that Trump has been elected, my sticking points have been reevaluated. I care about those things, but honestly, arguing with my sister about alt-med, or those hippy friends on facebook about homeopathy is just WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less of a priority. Trump has lowered the bar, ENORMOUSLY, and now instead of trying to raise awareness of, say, how important it is that we use evidence based medicine, I'm trying to raise awareness of how we have literal Nazi's in the White House and a conman President who should be at least registered if not convicted as a sex offender.

Hooray! Progress!
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26453
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:39 pm UTC

Plus there's the right's own extensive collection of (globally disastrous) pseudoscientific bullshit, if you did still want to focus on that.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Liri » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:52 pm UTC

My shaker of non-GMO sea salt is mildly less concerning.

Spoiler:
Image
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:18 pm UTC

I don't know, at this point I think priority needs to be focusing on the fact that the President his army of riled up right-wingers are perpendicular to reality on pretty much every issue. Like, Clinton is supposedly massively corrupt because of the Clinton foundation and because she is friendly with some reporters (which Trump isn't, of course), but Trump's conflicts of interest are more serious on every single level, especially when you consider that he has no concerns for integrity whatsoever - when you have a multi-bullion dollar propaganda empire that is backing you, and supporters who have been conditioned to believe that only right wing propaganda sites tell the truth, then we are royally fucked as a society, because you can say and do whatever you want, and your supporters will cheer you on.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

elasto
Posts: 3555
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby elasto » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

For example, Trump's solution to avoid a potential massive conflict of interest with running his business empire is to put it in a blind trust run by his children, alongside appointing his children to senior positions in the transition team.

Have I been misled in being told that's what's happening? Cos that's some third-world level of prudence in governance there.

If Clinton or Obama had done the same can you imagine what would be being said?

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6456
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:49 pm UTC

Let's move on to more important things, like potential swing voters. Trump has or will have all three branches of government headed by Republicans, and most of the States. What are the chances of him actually helping rural workers, Midwest whites, working class etc etc. ?

If we elaborate on that, will it be focused on whites? The poor? Window dressing for spending that will already occur? Trump can stamp his name on anything, and the Democrats cannot stop him( Democrats were always spineless compared to Republicans on the use of filibuster).

Edit, we get it, Trump's corrupt. The Bush administration had similar issues, but that wasn't what tanked them.

elasto
Posts: 3555
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby elasto » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:09 pm UTC

Are there really that many swing voters in today's world? Doesn't everyone live in some echo chamber or other?

I am not of the opinion that Sanders would have done much better than Clinton did (after all, she still won the popular vote): He'd have been painted as a pinko commie and a different subset of Dem voters would have stayed at home or defected.

All the Dems need to do to win the next election is field someone relatively fresh-faced and charismatic. Modern elections are won on personality not policy and that's the simple truth of it.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:12 pm UTC

Yes, yes, this, exactly this. I am absolutely stunned at how those on the right who were HORRIFIED at the whispers of Obama's 'corruption' and spent 8 years foaming at the mouth about it, but everything that's going on now is NBD.

The way I feel about this now makes me somewhat sympathetic to 9/11 truthers or such - I'm starting to understand this feeling of 'This is hugely problematic and no one seems to care why does no one seem to care what is wrong with all of you someone fucking listen to me'.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6456
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:20 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Are there really that many swing voters in today's world? Doesn't everyone live in some echo chamber or other?

I am not of the opinion that Sanders would have done much better than Clinton did (after all, she still won the popular vote): He'd have been painted as a pinko commie and a different subset of Dem voters would have stayed at home or defected.

All the Dems need to do to win the next election is field someone relatively fresh-faced and charismatic. Modern elections are won on personality not policy and that's the simple truth of it.

Statically speaking, there aren't that many. But that's not important. If you win an election by 1 vote, you still won. There's no difference between a million swing voters vs 100,000 swing voters when they are all correlated. Hence the question of Trump helping those swing voters. The GOP says they want to help, but will it help vs symbolic actions? Like if you hype up a bridge opening, plus subsidize an oil rig, what have you really accomplished? (Note, lots of workers do like corporate welfare if it sounds like there will be more jobs) we saw this in the fossil fuel subsidies. We had lots of lobbying to keep the subsidy because of the threat of loss jobs. This continued even though there was no evidence that jobs were dependent on those subsidies.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:30 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:The way I feel about this now makes me somewhat sympathetic to 9/11 truthers or such - I'm starting to understand this feeling of 'This is hugely problematic and no one seems to care why does no one seem to care what is wrong with all of you someone fucking listen to me'.


Just last night I felt the same way. I was thinking "Am I crazy here? Am I just another conspiracy theorist?" - I was half expecting a lot of Trump supporters to start having a bit of voter's remorse after all this came out, but there is just nothing, and it's frustrating, and it's scary.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby addams » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:40 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Are there really that many swing voters in today's world? Doesn't everyone live in some echo chamber or other?

I am not of the opinion that Sanders would have done much better than Clinton did (after all, she still won the popular vote): He'd have been painted as a pinko commie and a different subset of Dem voters would have stayed at home or defected.

All the Dems need to do to win the next election is field someone relatively fresh-faced and charismatic. Modern elections are won on personality not policy and that's the simple truth of it.

Thesh wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:The way I feel about this now makes me somewhat sympathetic to 9/11 truthers or such - I'm starting to understand this feeling of 'This is hugely problematic and no one seems to care why does no one seem to care what is wrong with all of you someone fucking listen to me'.


Just last night I felt the same way. I was thinking "Am I crazy here? Am I just another conspiracy theorist?" - I was half expecting a lot of Trump supporters to start having a bit of voter's remorse after all this came out, but there is just nothing, and it's frustrating, and it's scary.

(pfft) Dems win the popular vote and lose the White House.
Once.
Twice.

How fucking many Times does this have to happen?
Spoiler:
Yes. And...Buildings fall according to the Laws of Physics, just like trees do.
Poor little Truthers. They know. And deep in your heart, so do you.
It is the Why? that haunts me.
Neither Cheney nor Trump need Power nor Money.
Why? ... Why? oh, Why?

I'm convinced it is Not for the love and good will toward their fellow man.

I suppose, if love and good will can motivate a man,
The depths of a dark heart can also get one moving.

What do you see in that darkness?
It is too dark for me to see.

...oh...And; A Cheery Good Morning to you, too.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:53 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:The way I feel about this now makes me somewhat sympathetic to 9/11 truthers or such - I'm starting to understand this feeling of 'This is hugely problematic and no one seems to care why does no one seem to care what is wrong with all of you someone fucking listen to me'.


Just last night I felt the same way. I was thinking "Am I crazy here? Am I just another conspiracy theorist?" - I was half expecting a lot of Trump supporters to start having a bit of voter's remorse after all this came out, but there is just nothing, and it's frustrating, and it's scary.


Why would Trump supporters have remorse when clearly all the coastal liberal elitists are freaking the fuck out?

That was the very point of voting for Trump.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:57 pm UTC

Coastal? This is what I'm getting at - the people freaking out about literal Nazi's being happy about Trump aren't just coastal.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:02 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Coastal? This is what I'm getting at - the people freaking out about literal Nazi's being happy about Trump aren't just coastal.


That's not the perspective however.

When New York Talk Show hosts (ie: Stephen Colbert) start freaking out, "they" get happy. They've already labeled people like him to be non-genuine and "wrong", so if he's not feeling good about the transition, then good things are happening.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:06 pm UTC

I mean, Trump is a reality TV star from New York. This is exactly the kind of blindness and stupidity I'm referring to; I figured at least some people on the right would have concerns about massive corruption, but apparently they don't, and this is completely horrifying.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:07 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:I mean, Trump is a reality TV star from New York. This is exactly the kind of blindness and stupidity I'm referring to; I figured at least some people on the right would have concerns about massive corruption, but apparently they don't, and this is completely horrifying.


Trump is more of a Staten Island sort of figure in his mannerisms, which is not really representative of the greater New York city or the coast.

EDIT: See this for details on this viewpoint: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/20 ... ve_ro.html

"Staten Island is very much in tune with the rest of the country," said co-author Richard M. Flanagan, a professor of political science at the College of Staten Island (CSI). "Much more so than Manhattan is."


Why would corruption be an issue to freak out about? It was Clinton vs Trump. And the right thinks that Clinton is massively corrupt.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6238
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:19 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Why would corruption be an issue to freak out about? It was Clinton vs Trump. And the right thinks that Clinton is massively corrupt.


But they aren't saying "Well, I know it's a problem, but Clinton was worse" they are saying "Who the fuck cares?" I don't know why people don't understand just how fucking dangerous and scary this situation is.

Look, I know you are trying to get everyone to just understand that this is just people who feel the left doesn't represent them, but you know what? That's bullshit, and I'm not going to fucking try and reason with stupid lies spouted by willfully ignorant people. The entire fucking reason this idiocy was allowed to exist is because they were coddled by the media, and they were coddled by the public. So you know what, fuck that shit. I am not going to coddle them, I am not going to try and say "Oh, I get it, you just have a differing opinion from me, let me explain my position so that you will understand." No, that's why Trump got elected in the first place.

Sorry, the public and the mainstream media needs to stop coddling ignorant people and stop letting them live in an alternate reality.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
PeteP
What the peck?
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby PeteP » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:21 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:The way I feel about this now makes me somewhat sympathetic to 9/11 truthers or such - I'm starting to understand this feeling of 'This is hugely problematic and no one seems to care why does no one seem to care what is wrong with all of you someone fucking listen to me'.


Just last night I felt the same way. I was thinking "Am I crazy here? Am I just another conspiracy theorist?" - I was half expecting a lot of Trump supporters to start having a bit of voter's remorse after all this came out, but there is just nothing, and it's frustrating, and it's scary.

Maybe once he actually does stuff (but he would have to do something that is obviously horrible and "obviously" is challenging). At the moment it looks like he will have some horrible cabinet picks, but it is not like that is unexpected. And he settled the university case for 25 mio but that tells us nothing new about him. And his children who will run the not a blind trust blind trust are part of his transition team and Ivanka was apparently there for the meeting with the japanese prime minister. Stuff like that, it isn't like he could actually do much yet to do more than reinforce expectations.

User avatar
Yakk
Poster with most posts but no title.
Posts: 11083
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:27 pm UTC
Location: E pur si muove

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Yakk » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:27 pm UTC

He has already used a political meeting to ask for a favor for his businesses:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 31336.html
Is that not "stuff"?
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6456
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:56 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:He has already used a political meeting to ask for a favor for his businesses:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 31336.html
Is that not "stuff"?

That's better than the allegations that Trump asked for permitting approval south America via the presidency. At least we have confirmation that he's more concerned about his businesses. Will that matter to conservatives? Not until Trump's voters desert him. Think about the numbers here. Trump's corruption and impropriety will cost the country billions at most. There's trillions of dollars of tax cuts, and deregulation that Trump will gleefully sign. Corruption is a drop in the bucket comparatively. It's only once we get to Brazil levels of corruption, where the economy tanks, will they care. *

*That's sorta an exaggeration, but it has to hit those swing voters.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:00 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Why would corruption be an issue to freak out about? It was Clinton vs Trump. And the right thinks that Clinton is massively corrupt.


But they aren't saying "Well, I know it's a problem, but Clinton was worse" they are saying "Who the fuck cares?" I don't know why people don't understand just how fucking dangerous and scary this situation is.

Look, I know you are trying to get everyone to just understand that this is just people who feel the left doesn't represent them, but you know what? That's bullshit, and I'm not going to fucking try and reason with stupid lies spouted by willfully ignorant people. The entire fucking reason this idiocy was allowed to exist is because they were coddled by the media, and they were coddled by the public. So you know what, fuck that shit. I am not going to coddle them, I am not going to try and say "Oh, I get it, you just have a differing opinion from me, let me explain my position so that you will understand." No, that's why Trump got elected in the first place.

Sorry, the public and the mainstream media needs to stop coddling ignorant people and stop letting them live in an alternate reality.


Right... Let me ask you? How many Democrats do you know who voted for Trump?

I can name a couple. And Washington Post is running an article today that perfectly describes them: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... ge%2Fstory

Its about the economy. And unfortunately, its not about the national economy, but about the state economies. Economy is the #1 issue for the majority of Americans.

Beyond that? Most people don't really pay attention to politics to the level we do on this forum. That's probably a good thing, honestly.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:17 pm UTC

@realDonaldTrump wrote:Many people would like to see @Nigel_Farage represent Great Britain as their Ambassador to the United States. He would do a great job!

...sounds, like everybody would be happier if he was the US Ambassador to GB. Happier still if it was to somewhere else. (Hasn't US->EU been mentioned, recently?) Is there a reason why not, technically at least? I don't think Kissinger (Bavarian) was a diplomat, and he entered the US at 15, but something comparable with Trump to him in the Nixon/Ford era, and with a funny accent..?

(I still want you to have Boris. Let him reside in the US for 14 years and then make him your President.)

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:29 pm UTC

Washington Post seems to have a more reasonable take on what is going on with Trump vs Media: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ge%2Fstory

Seems more believable to me than the NY Post's version. Still not too flattering to Trump of course, but I think I trust this article over the hyperbole of the NY Post.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests