2016 US Presidential Election

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby trpmb6 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:11 am UTC

Clinton in her press conference calls for transparency. 3 things.
1) She and Huma already know whats on Huma's device, they can release it. (Just like trump could release his tax returns)
2) You can't ask for transparency when you kept your own campaign chair (Podesta) out of the loop on it until it broke in the news.
3) She knows the FBI can't release the emails because they are evidence. So she is hedging that it will make her look better by calling for transparency.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:19 am UTC

trpmb6 wrote:2) You can't ask for transparency when you kept your own campaign chair (Podesta) out of the loop on it until it broke in the news.

My read of it from Newsweek is that Clinton could not possibly have known of the existence of the emails in question.

This particular story looks is looks like a record-breaking tempest in a teacup, frankly.

ETA: seriously, Clinton neither sent nor received any of the messages that Comes was talking about, as he himself said. There is no particular reason to believe that they show anything that the emails that have already been released do not. Likely as not, they are emails that have already been released. The only remotely interesting thing about this story is that it contains the words "Clinton", "email", and "FBI".
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:27 am UTC

Yablo wrote:
Its quite possible that there's a sane plan out there to build a border wall... possibly even a sane plan out there to have Mexico pay for some of the wall in some sort of cross-country agreement. (especially if the USA can offer some sort of gun deal with Mexico: they're worried about illegal guns entering Mexico just as much as we are worried about illegal drugs entering our country. The USA has a lot of leverage against Mexico).

A diplomatic solution with Mexico is definitely the way I would handle it. Shoving around another country is poor form, especially when it's a neighbor. The problem is that, for the moment at least, Mexico has no incentive to stop people from crossing into our country, and I can't blame them. If it were the other way around, and Mexico threatened to build a wall and make us pay for it in order to stop our citizens from entering their country illegally, the typical American reaction would likely be to tell Mexico to piss off and handle it themselves.


Trust me, Mexico has tons of incentives to stop people from crossing the border and conducting illegal gun trade. Indeed, Drug-runners enter the US with drugs, then they leave our country with guns (which are illegal in Mexico). They have strict gun laws while sharing a border with lol Texas... yeah, they're pissed about American guns.

Which is part of the reason why I think the wall can actually work, if the proper diplomatic posture were brought up with good collaboration with Mexico. And yes, I'm 100% sure that Mexico will pay for some of the border security (hell, maybe a wall of some kind in some areas), since it is a shared diplomatic interest between our two countries.

But holy fuck is Trump doing it wrong.

However, your fairy tale thinking is not what Trump thinks. Trump's position is clear. Trump will target remittance money going to Mexico, and take it under the Patriot act to build the border wall.

I think referring to my thinking as fairy tale thinking is a bit much.


I misspoke. Sorry about that.

I mean its a fairy tale to believe that Trump has any rational plan what so ever. You're basically making A Wet Rag Stuffed Into a Tailpipe's mistake: you're saying somewhat reasonable conservative values and then kinda-sorta maybe hoping that Trump shares the same viewpoint.

I've actually listened to a lot of Trump rallies on CSPAN... I listen to CSPAN directly to hear what the candidates say without any bias getting in the way. And I can solidly say that Trump really does mean to build the wall, that he really is anti-Muslim (after all, Muslims were cheering during 9/11. Trump could see it himself).

Hell, I watched as Trump played "guess and check" for several weeks to figure out exactly what the Republican viewpoint was on abortion. (Women should be punished if they get abortions! Oh wait, thats bad? Erm... I mean, something something... make America Great Again!) Trump is a policy-shifting snake who guess-and-checked his way to his current positions.

Trump cares for policy exactly as much as the media does: which is basically not at all. He just wants to make headlines and is a rabble-rouser. That doesn't strike me as a very good leader.

ahammel wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:2) You can't ask for transparency when you kept your own campaign chair (Podesta) out of the loop on it until it broke in the news.

My read of it from Newsweek is that Clinton could not possibly have known of the existence of the emails in question.

This particular story looks is looks like a record-breaking tempest in a teacup, frankly.

ETA: seriously, Clinton neither sent nor received any of the messages that Comes was talking about, as he himself said. There is no particular reason to believe that they show anything that the emails that have already been released do not. Likely as not, they are emails that have already been released. The only remotely interesting thing about this story is that it contains the words "Clinton", "email", and "FBI".


The whole Clinton Email thing is a tempest in a teacup. No one gave a shit about records policy until now.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 5438
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:36 am UTC

Actually, there is an actual scandal here. Comey deliberately used his position at the FBI to mislead the public in order to affect the election. He should be fired immediately.
Honesty replaced by greed, they gave us the reason to fight and bleed
They try to torch our faith and hope, spit at our presence and detest our goals

User avatar
PeteP
What the peck?
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby PeteP » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:43 am UTC

Yeah that was weird, they found some emails that don't seem to be something that will bring anything new.
The emails were not to or from Clinton, and contained information that appeared to be more of what agents had already uncovered, the official said, but in an abundance of caution, they felt they needed to further scrutinize them.
(https://t.co/Xg79L4cRYh)

So is there some reason to vaguely bring it up publicly? Afaik such stuff doesn't usually get public progress upgrades. So am I missing something or was that blatantly political?

Edit: ah the next lines
Because Comey had told Congress that the FBI had finished investigating Clinton’s server, he felt he needed to let lawmakers know that agents were looking into the case again in light of the recent discovery, the official said.
Is that a plausible reason? And if so was there any reason to be deliberatedly vague so that people could overstate the importance?

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 5438
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Thesh » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:50 am UTC

The vagueness is what makes me skeptical that it was honest stupidity.
Honesty replaced by greed, they gave us the reason to fight and bleed
They try to torch our faith and hope, spit at our presence and detest our goals

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Liri » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:25 pm UTC

Donald Trump wrote:I think it's the biggest story since Watergate.

Lol

Just as things were looking to stay comfortable for the rest of the race. I had a full-on nightmare about Trump last night. My brother and I were at home and he was trying to break in. I made fun of him and he started trying to smash the front door down. Eventually he gave up, got pouty, then sad. He kept tying to get our attention but finally drove off in his Honda ElementTM.

I don't want to look at any news sites. I'm horrified that a non-issue is potentially going to dominate the final news cycle.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:15 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
Donald Trump wrote:I think it's the biggest story since Watergate.

Lol

Just as things were looking to stay comfortable for the rest of the race. I had a full-on nightmare about Trump last night. My brother and I were at home and he was trying to break in. I made fun of him and he started trying to smash the front door down. Eventually he gave up, got pouty, then sad. He kept tying to get our attention but finally drove off in his Honda ElementTM.

I don't want to look at any news sites. I'm horrified that a non-issue is potentially going to dominate the final news cycle.
It would definitely be a good time for the HRC camp to drop whatever oppo they've got left on Trump.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby trpmb6 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:17 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:2) You can't ask for transparency when you kept your own campaign chair (Podesta) out of the loop on it until it broke in the news.

My read of it from Newsweek is that Clinton could not possibly have known of the existence of the emails in question.

This particular story looks is looks like a record-breaking tempest in a teacup, frankly.

ETA: seriously, Clinton neither sent nor received any of the messages that Comes was talking about, as he himself said. There is no particular reason to believe that they show anything that the emails that have already been released do not. Likely as not, they are emails that have already been released. The only remotely interesting thing about this story is that it contains the words "Clinton", "email", and "FBI".



I was referring to Podesta not knowing about the private email server at the very beginning of the scandal. Not the recent revelations.

Nobody has addressed my other points.

It is funny how Comey was being villified by the left and championed as an apolitical party for justice prior to the investigation close, then became the flip of that right after the close. Now it appears we've flipped back. Gotta love politics. But seriously, there must have been something pretty damning for him to reopen the investigation. It may not be clinton emails, (though we do know Huma had a history of forwardimg emails to her yahoo address for printing) but it is clearly relevant enough to break a long standing tradition of not influencing an election 60 days out. Most likely huma perjured herself.

User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby trpmb6 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:19 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:It would definitely be a good time for the HRC camp to drop whatever oppo they've got left on Trump.


I told my friends as soon as the news broke to expect another alleged sexual assault to emerge this weekend or Monday. But I think if they did that it would be so blatantly political that most would dismiss it (which to be fair is sad because it hurts the progress we have made in supporting victims).

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:30 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:But seriously, there must have been something pretty damning for him to reopen the investigation. It may not be clinton emails, (though we do know Huma had a history of forwardimg emails to her yahoo address for printing) but it is clearly relevant enough to break a long standing tradition of not influencing an election 60 days out. Most likely huma perjured herself.
If Newsweek is to be believed, they are required to look at new evidence as it emerges, regardless of how "damning" it is. It's very likely nothing. It is not even clear that the FBI didn't examine exactly these messages as part of the earlier investigation.

This is an incredible non-story.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

morriswalters
Posts: 6885
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:34 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Actually, there is an actual scandal here. Comey deliberately used his position at the FBI to mislead the public in order to affect the election. He should be fired immediately.
Obama is smarter than that. Clinton owns this. Had she used good sense we wouldn't be sitting here listening to this. She was a bad choice from the beginning. Her saving grace was that Trump was worse.
trpmb6 wrote:But seriously, there must have been something pretty damning for him to reopen the investigation.
We'll never know before the election.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:11 pm UTC

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/us/do ... ation.html
After hearing the words "Hillary, Email, FBI " Trump decides to invest in his campaign again.
The donation came after earlier disclosures, filed on Thursday, revealed that Mr. Trump had not contributed any cash to his campaign in October despite claims that he would be spending heavily and despite earlier pledges to match the small contributions of his grass-roots supporters. That earlier disclosure covered only the first three weeks of October; Mr. Trump typically wires money to his campaign toward the end of the month.
Looks like he gave up for October, but this boosted his morale, and his chances.

Remember, Republicans have been slowly coming back to Trump(from the independent/3rd party pile) since the sexual assault tapes, so Trump has a 20% chance of winning, even before this shocker/nonshock news. It makes great conspiracy fodder, so the GOP is glad to distract from the sex tapes, as trpmb6 instantly made clear. This can only be bad to not that bad for Clinton, there is no upside in this story.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6829
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:32 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:But seriously, there must have been something pretty damning for him to reopen the investigation.
The investigation was never closed. This is literally the FBI announcing that they found some new emails which they've yet to closely read.

Yes, there's a chance there'll be something profound in them; there's also a chance I'll stumble across Johannes Vermeers' The Concert, a copy of the Aethiopis, and Amelia Earhart's corpse while cleaning out my basement. But until I actually do find those things, people should refrain from releasing news flashes about me cleaning out my basement.
ahammel wrote:This is an incredible non-story.
Yeah; it's one of those cases where even mentioning its irrelevance gives it more relevance than it deserves.

It seems like the news media is starved for controversy in the wake of an apparent Trump defeat (and the shift from controversial-Trump to sulking-Trump). What the hell are they going to do if Trump loses?

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:05 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:But seriously, there must have been something pretty damning for him to reopen the investigation.
The investigation was never closed. This is literally the FBI announcing that they found some new emails which they've yet to closely read.

Yes, there's a chance there'll be something profound in them; there's also a chance I'll stumble across Johannes Vermeers' The Concert, a copy of the Aethiopis, and Amelia Earhart's corpse while cleaning out my basement. But until I actually do find those things, people should refrain from releasing news flashes about me cleaning out my basement.
ahammel wrote:This is an incredible non-story.
Yeah; it's one of those cases where even mentioning its irrelevance gives it more relevance than it deserves.

It seems like the news media is starved for controversy in the wake of an apparent Trump defeat (and the shift from controversial-Trump to sulking-Trump). What the hell are they going to do if Trump loses?
Cover the Trump insurrection. But seriously, nothing good can come out of this storyline for Clinton. Either they find something damning, distract from Trump's failings, or boost Trump's support even if nothing criminal is found. This nonstory is very dangerous, because it feeds into the narrative of smoke (which obviously means fire even though there's no fire), just like the Clinton Foundation narrative let Trump get away with his awful fake foundation.

User avatar
Xeio
Friends, Faidites, Countrymen
Posts: 5086
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Location: C:\Users\Xeio\
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Xeio » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:46 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Thesh wrote:Actually, there is an actual scandal here. Comey deliberately used his position at the FBI to mislead the public in order to affect the election. He should be fired immediately.
Obama is smarter than that. Clinton owns this. Had she used good sense we wouldn't be sitting here listening to this. She was a bad choice from the beginning. Her saving grace was that Trump was worse.
Yup, Comey is pretty safe even as he plays politics in a presidential election. Obama knows firing him will look worse than doing nothing.

User avatar
PeteP
What the peck?
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby PeteP » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:48 pm UTC

Anyway, I seriously doubt this is enough to save their presidental election,not as long all they have is "more emails, we don't know what they are about or why the fbi considers them relevant, but we know that this time it is something that will destroy her". (I know 538 gives him 18%or so but pec gives him far less.) But senate races are tight so it might hurt in that respect.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:55 pm UTC

Most of Trump's remaining chance in the 538 model comes from the possibility of systematic polling error in his favour
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:06 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:
ahammel wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:2) You can't ask for transparency when you kept your own campaign chair (Podesta) out of the loop on it until it broke in the news.

My read of it from Newsweek is that Clinton could not possibly have known of the existence of the emails in question.

This particular story looks is looks like a record-breaking tempest in a teacup, frankly.

ETA: seriously, Clinton neither sent nor received any of the messages that Comes was talking about, as he himself said. There is no particular reason to believe that they show anything that the emails that have already been released do not. Likely as not, they are emails that have already been released. The only remotely interesting thing about this story is that it contains the words "Clinton", "email", and "FBI".



I was referring to Podesta not knowing about the private email server at the very beginning of the scandal. Not the recent revelations.

Nobody has addressed my other points.

It is funny how Comey was being villified by the left and championed as an apolitical party for justice prior to the investigation close, then became the flip of that right after the close. Now it appears we've flipped back. Gotta love politics. But seriously, there must have been something pretty damning for him to reopen the investigation. It may not be clinton emails, (though we do know Huma had a history of forwardimg emails to her yahoo address for printing) but it is clearly relevant enough to break a long standing tradition of not influencing an election 60 days out. Most likely huma perjured herself.


Its not an issue about "damning evidence". Its an issue about transparency with the FBI's process.

It looks like Anthony Weiner had a few emails sent to his wife, and his wife stored emails on Hilary Clinton's email server. Since there is a chance that new evidence is being brought up through the Anthony Weiner case, the FBI told the American public "Hey, we got new evidence that we're looking into".

Director Comney had two choices:

1. Be silent about the potential new evidence.
2. Tell the American people about the potential new evidence.

No one knows what this evidence is yet: aside from the fact that its a bunch of more emails discovered that were previously unknown. Only after the FBI goes through the (depressingly tedious) process of reading the new sets of emails would they know if anything bad is in there. But Director Comney is clear on this issue: Anthony Weiner's wife had emails stored on Clinton's server.

Although its a stretch to imagine that Clinton is in serious trouble over this case... obscure indirect evidence sometimes leads to prosecutions. (See the Petraus scandal). So in the off-chance that something is discovered, Comney decided it was best to let everyone know that new evidence has come up.

----------------------

I say we should withhold judgement until the FBI is done reading these new emails. Clinton may not even be in any of the emails (despite being stored on her server)

------------

As far as case #1: I think I'd rather have the FBI transparent with the US Public on this issue. Sure, it changes the election opinion... but its better for them to be open with the discussion rather than keeping this new evidence secret. As long as Director Comney is honest with the results and open to discussion, the truth will come out eventually.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:21 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:It looks like Anthony Weiner had a few emails sent to his wife, and his wife stored emails on Hilary Clinton's email server. Since there is a chance that new evidence is being brought up through the Anthony Weiner case, the FBI told the American public "Hey, we got new evidence that we're looking into".
I believe that Abedin used the laptop that she and her husband shared in order to print emails for Clinton, as that is how HRC prefers to consume her email. Getting things printed at the State Department is apparently PITA, and Abedin was in the habit of using a work-around involving shuffling email among accounts. I'm sure anybody who's had to deal with government IT can sympathize. Maybe the emails contained classified information, in which case Abedin is guilty of poor infosec, but not a criminal offence unless it can be shown that she intended to distribute them to somebody aside from Clinton. All of this came out during the original investigation.

This is honestly the most boring news item I have ever heard of.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:23 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:This is honestly the most boring news item I have ever heard of.


The more I look into it, the more I agree.

FBI Director Comney wrote:To all:

This morning I sent a letter to Congress in connection with the Secretary Clinton email investigation. Yesterday, the investigative team briefed me on their recommendation with respect to seeking access to emails that have recently been found in an unrelated case. Because those emails appear to be pertinent to our investigation, I agreed that we should take appropriate steps to obtain and review them.

Of course, we don’t ordinarily tell Congress about ongoing investigations, but here I feel an obligation to do so given that I testified repeatedly in recent months that our investigation was completed. I also think it would be misleading to the American people were we not to supplement the record. At the same time, however, given that we don’t know the significance of this newly discovered collection of emails, I don’t want to create a misleading impression. In trying to strike that balance, in a brief letter and in the middle of an election season, there is significant risk of being misunderstood, but I wanted you to hear directly from me about it.


I can't say I disagree with Comney's decision to inform Congress. This really has more to do with the idiotic press going ape shit over minor details that don't matter.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

morriswalters
Posts: 6885
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:41 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:This really has more to do with the idiotic press going ape shit over minor details that don't matter.
That won't be ascertained till after election day. And this is what the press does, no matter how you characterize it.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:46 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:This really has more to do with the idiotic press going ape shit over minor details that don't matter.
That won't be ascertained till after election day. And this is what the press does, no matter how you characterize it.


It clearly matters politically. Don't get me wrong.

But in substance, it means almost nothing. The chance of the FBI actually obtaining emails from Anthony Weiner that implicate Clinton is virtually nil.

But yeah, they were somehow related to Clinton's email server, so the FBI should definitely look into it just in case. And the director should tell the American people, you know... just in case. Because good policework means checking all the details. Its just a shame that the hyperbolic press is losing their minds right now.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:53 pm UTC

The press is losing their minds because they know exactly how Republicans and Trumpkins will react. The former will thank god that it wasn't about Trump, and the latter thinks its all the proof he needs to rally his base, which was previously wandering into the undecided column.

Note: 538's model is always a lagging indicator. It'll take 5 days for it to even hint at what this news does to her polls. Maybe nothing, maybe make Trump gain 5 % points on Clinton.

Senior Justice Department officials did not move to stop him from sending the letter, officials said, but they did everything short of it, pointing to policies against talking about current criminal investigations or being seen as meddling in elections.
That Mr. Comey moved ahead despite those protestations underscores the highly unusual nature of Friday’s revelations, which added a dramatic twist to the final days of a presidential campaign and reignited a firestorm that Mrs. Clinton believed she had put behind her when the F.B.I. decided in July not to charge anyone in the investigation.
The letter is also the latest example of an at-times strained relationship between the Justice Department and Mr. Comey, who technically answers to the attorney general but who — on issues of race, encryption, policing and most notably the Clinton investigation — has branded himself as someone who operates outside Washington’s typical chain of command.
After hearing the Justice Department’s concerns, Mr. Comey concluded that the ramifications of not telling Congress promptly about the new emails far outweighed concerns about the guidelines, one senior law enforcement official said.
Mr. Comey’s letter opened him up to criticism not only from Democrats but also from current and former officials at the F.B.I. and the Justice Department, including Republicans.
“There’s a longstanding policy of not doing anything that could influence an election,” said George J. Terwilliger III, a deputy attorney general under the President George Bush. “Those guidelines exist for a reason. Sometimes, that makes for hard decisions. But bypassing them has consequences.”

TLDR: Comey asked for advice, was advised to not release it, and then Comey released it anyway. This part makes me angry but I'm not sure if I'm being biased, or if Comey release is bullshit.
Last edited by sardia on Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:10 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
PeteP
What the peck?
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby PeteP » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:12 pm UTC

Sardia your quote tags are messed up

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Liri » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:20 pm UTC

His own rationale for telling Congress sounds reasonable, but I could tell someone I really really really didn't want to shoot them in the kneecaps and do it anyway.

It's almost pointless to gripe at the media for pouncing on this. They're just doing what we all expect them to. The Washington Post and NYT both wrote editorials condemning Comey and bemoaning the effect on the election, all the while running big-headline stories on the huuge effect it might have.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

morriswalters
Posts: 6885
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:21 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:But in substance, it means almost nothing.
Since you haven't seen the emails that is speculation. However the political side is the only side that matters at the moment. This is political warfare designed to influence the election.
KnightExemplar wrote:And the director should tell the American people, you know... just in case.
He didn't tell the American people anything. He told Congress. And the rest follows.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:36 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But in substance, it means almost nothing.
Since you haven't seen the emails that is speculation. However the political side is the only side that matters at the moment. This is political warfare designed to influence the election.


I disagree. If Comney wanted Trump to win, he could have pushed forward for her indictment months ago.

As it stands, Director Comney is in a difficult position: he's discovered new evidence with regards to the Clinton case. He either could have kept it secret, or he could tell everybody about it. I think telling everybody about it is a better option of his two shitty options.

Or what? Do you want him to keep this evidence secret until AFTER Clinton was elected? That would have been an awful choice as well.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:13 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
morriswalters wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But in substance, it means almost nothing.
Since you haven't seen the emails that is speculation. However the political side is the only side that matters at the moment. This is political warfare designed to influence the election.


I disagree. If Comney wanted Trump to win, he could have pushed forward for her indictment months ago.

As it stands, Director Comney is in a difficult position: he's discovered new evidence with regards to the Clinton case. He either could have kept it secret, or he could tell everybody about it. I think telling everybody about it is a better option of his two shitty options.

Or what? Do you want him to keep this evidence secret until AFTER Clinton was elected? That would have been an awful choice as well.

Am I being biased when I see it as
"he could have kept secret that he found a cache of additional emails, but which he won't review or report on until after the election?"
This scandal could hurt Clinton like it did hurt Trump because it reinforces something we already thought of them. Shady for her, and rapist for him.

morriswalters
Posts: 6885
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby morriswalters » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:08 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:I disagree. If Comney wanted Trump to win, he could have pushed forward for her indictment months ago.
The news itself has its own weight. Comey knew this. Whatever his intentions, this news, this close to the election is dynamite. Clinton can't deny anything, because their is nothing to deny. All you or anyone knows is that emails exist. Relating the existence of the emails without being able to discuss, definitively, the contents, let's everyone claim what they want. And that is exactly what everyone is doing. He would have been better off pulling out the stops and looking at what he has, using whatever resources it took, before disclosing anything. He isn't corrupt, he''s weak.

User avatar
PeteP
What the peck?
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby PeteP » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:12 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
morriswalters wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But in substance, it means almost nothing.
Since you haven't seen the emails that is speculation. However the political side is the only side that matters at the moment. This is political warfare designed to influence the election.


I disagree. If Comney wanted Trump to win, he could have pushed forward for her indictment months ago.

As it stands, Director Comney is in a difficult position: he's discovered new evidence with regards to the Clinton case. He either could have kept it secret, or he could tell everybody about it. I think telling everybody about it is a better option of his two shitty options.

Or what? Do you want him to keep this evidence secret until AFTER Clinton was elected? That would have been an awful choice as well.


In general I don't think they should give such status reports about ongoing cases. (At least not like this.) Now this is a presidential election so the public good is a reason to do it. But when it is just "now we are looking at some other emails" that doesn't actually do much to inform the public. If it is published for informing the public then it should actually do that. For this the basic should be "whose emails are they? from when? where they on the server?" and most importantly "why do we think they are relevant", well ideally it should come with results but if that is not possible there should be at least some info to judge the material.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Liri » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:27 pm UTC

He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:43 pm UTC


That's both really stupid and proof that only morons commit voter fraud. The real fraud is committed by election officials, much more efficient and you can target tight races.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ele ... -fbi-news/
538 suggests Clinton can either demand transparency or just take the polling hit. She'll lose a Senate seat, but she should still win. Or so the plan says.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2362
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:07 pm UTC


If she genuinely thought that her (first) vote would be switched to Clinton, why believe that a second vote would stay with Trump? But assuming it would, then she should have voted a third time for Trump to make a net vote of +1 to Trump...

And who said "Well, I won’t tell you to vote fifteen times. I will not tell you to do that, Ok?", again? ;)

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5489
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:54 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Am I being biased when I see it as
"he could have kept secret that he found a cache of additional emails, but which he won't review or report on until after the election?"
This scandal could hurt Clinton like it did hurt Trump because it reinforces something we already thought of them. Shady for her, and rapist for him.


Keeping shady shit secret until after an election because its more politically advantageous to one party is the very definition of shady.

Director Comney was in a bad spot here. Obviously anything he does would be advantageous to one side or the other. But the Democrats rushing to stupidly defend Clinton by shaming Comney isn't helping anybody.

PeteP wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:
morriswalters wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:But in substance, it means almost nothing.
Since you haven't seen the emails that is speculation. However the political side is the only side that matters at the moment. This is political warfare designed to influence the election.


I disagree. If Comney wanted Trump to win, he could have pushed forward for her indictment months ago.

As it stands, Director Comney is in a difficult position: he's discovered new evidence with regards to the Clinton case. He either could have kept it secret, or he could tell everybody about it. I think telling everybody about it is a better option of his two shitty options.

Or what? Do you want him to keep this evidence secret until AFTER Clinton was elected? That would have been an awful choice as well.


In general I don't think they should give such status reports about ongoing cases. (At least not like this.) Now this is a presidential election so the public good is a reason to do it. But when it is just "now we are looking at some other emails" that doesn't actually do much to inform the public. If it is published for informing the public then it should actually do that. For this the basic should be "whose emails are they? from when? where they on the server?" and most importantly "why do we think they are relevant", well ideally it should come with results but if that is not possible there should be at least some info to judge the material.


How much good? It means that the public can make an informed decision come two Tuesdays from now.

The issue is that Comney said in a statement to Congress about a month ago that "The Clinton case has been closed" (or IIRC, something very similar to that). But new evidence has showed up. For them to look further into the Clinton emails but not tell anybody about it would be disastrous from a transparency point of view.

I'm sure that the FBI Director will get details to us asap. But in the mean time, he wanted advance warning that he was looking back into the Clinton case. Most likely, nothing will be discovered, and its really the fault of the media that everyone has gotten hyped up about this. The FBI's job is to keep the public informed on important cases, the job of the Media is to focus on important news (and/or divert attention away from non-stories)
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby ahammel » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:41 am UTC

Comey's main concern seems to have been that it would look really bad on everybody if it leaked before it went public, which is fair enough, I guess. I don't know if there was a way he could've handled it without taking over a news cycle.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
Djehutynakht
Posts: 1546
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:37 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby Djehutynakht » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:15 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:there's also a chance I'll stumble across Johannes Vermeers' The Concert...


Hey.

We're looking for that.

Give it back.

User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby trpmb6 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:25 am UTC

ahammel wrote:Comey's main concern seems to have been that it would look really bad on everybody if it leaked before it went public, which is fair enough, I guess. I don't know if there was a way he could've handled it without taking over a news cycle.


Exactly. They found emails that are important. Nobody debies that. Comey was already facing a revolt. Again, nobody denies that. He had to get out in front of it or it would have looked WORSE for Clinton. This was actually the best outcome for her. The FBI agents who were against him would have leaked this and that would be more damning then not releasing it.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby sardia » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:27 am UTC

trpmb6 wrote:
ahammel wrote:Comey's main concern seems to have been that it would look really bad on everybody if it leaked before it went public, which is fair enough, I guess. I don't know if there was a way he could've handled it without taking over a news cycle.


Exactly. They found emails that are important. Nobody debies that. Comey was already facing a revolt. Again, nobody denies that. He had to get out in front of it or it would have looked WORSE for Clinton. This was actually the best outcome for her. The FBI agents who were against him would have leaked this and that would be more damning then not releasing it.

I got tired of hearing noninformation, and outrage at said noninformation, so I went out and voted early. Remember to vote, it's a civic duty., and you know, this election feels important.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6829
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: 2016 US Presidential Election

Postby The Great Hippo » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:42 am UTC

trpmb6 wrote:Exactly. They found emails that are important. Nobody debies that.
Unless you're talking about the previous emails -- I deny this. They didn't find emails that are important; they found emails that might be important. They have to review them, first -- and all signs currently point to them being largely irrelevant.
Djehutynakht wrote:Hey.

We're looking for that.

Give it back.
But it looks so splendid next to my Chez Tortoni. It would be a shame to split them apart!


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: elasto, iamspen, Pfhorrest, Zohar and 11 guests