Police misbehavior thread

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Tyndmyr
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:50 pm UTC

I mean, it's literally the reason why he was there. Police officers have not actually sustained a lot of casualties stopping shooters. Yes, he should have gone in.

Yeah, he retired after this incident because he didn't want to face the results of what he did. If he was too old to do his job, that was probably not the time for him to decide that.

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sardia
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:The 'police not being required to stop a massacre' thing is most likely just a way of protecting the police department from a deluge of frivolous lawsuits. The police can't be everywhere, 24/7, and it's unreasonable to demand that they prevent every single mugging that occurs. The problem is when you start allowing the police to be liable for obvious dereliction of duty, you open the legal floodgates for the questionable dereliction of duty, and pretty soon the city is bankrupt due to legal fees. The result is that we end up protecting the obviously incompetent police, even if they do get fired but only if there is a massive public outcry.

And I am honestly not sure what the policy should be.

The policy should be you enforce actual policy that you have, and not pervert it by siding with cops all the time. In Chicago, we have a Civilian Office of Police Accountability(it was previously called IPRA)...except in it's entire existence, it hasn't once found an officer negligent, or at fault despite the city paying out millions year after year. If there was ever a union that needed busting, it's the first responders union, or just the cops. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... ting-cops/

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Quercus
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Quercus » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:48 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Because determining what is reasonable would be a matter for the courts, and thus waste an inordinate amount of time/money. Not to mention that the courts aren't likelyto side against the police even in the most egregious of cases, so it's mostly a moot point.


In the UK there is a body called the independent police complaints commission, which AFAIK is responsible for deciding reasonableness before the courts get involved (I think that in some circumstances they can also deal with entire complaints without involving the courts at all, but I'm not sure how that works). Seems like a reasonable compromise solution.

Edit: didn't read Sardia's post first. Looks like that's been tried and doesn't work in the US because the entire culture around police is fucked.

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addams
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:03 am UTC

oh, Quercus;
It's so true.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Tyndmyr
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:05 pm UTC

sardia wrote: In Chicago, we have a Civilian Office of Police Accountability(it was previously called IPRA)...except in it's entire existence, it hasn't once found an officer negligent, or at fault despite the city paying out millions year after year.


This seems like the most obvious case of bureaucratic waste ever. Sure, sure, they have an office, so they can say they did something, but it literally just exists for the convenience of those in power, not to actually do anything.

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sardia
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:29 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
This seems like the most obvious case of bureaucratic waste ever. Sure, sure, they have an office, so they can say they did something, but it literally just exists for the convenience of those in power, not to actually do anything.

I find it odd to characterize corruption as bureaucratic waste, like you're implying we shouldn't even have the office. Anyway, the name change was an attempt at police reform, but I'm not optimistic since the police faction had a big say in who got appointed to the board.
The board has a valuable function, they just need independence from the propolice faction, which is a problem everywhere.

Tyndmyr
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:34 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
This seems like the most obvious case of bureaucratic waste ever. Sure, sure, they have an office, so they can say they did something, but it literally just exists for the convenience of those in power, not to actually do anything.

I find it odd to characterize corruption as bureaucratic waste, like you're implying we shouldn't even have the office. Anyway, the name change was an attempt at police reform, but I'm not optimistic since the police faction had a big say in who got appointed to the board.
The board has a valuable function, they just need independence from the propolice faction, which is a problem everywhere.


I mean, if it's doing nothing but clearing the police, which probably shelters them from facing justice via the courts(after all, if the board reviewed and found you did nothing wrong, that looks good in the court, right?), then I'm not sure it's producing any real value.

In theory, perhaps, a similar board without police control would be of value, but I'm not sure you can get that in Chicago. This isn't just Chicago, I agree. Baltimore certainly has no lack of problems itself.

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Sableagle
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Sableagle » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:08 pm UTC

Bright point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th5z27ALj0I

Police getting it very right!
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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addams
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:22 am UTC

Yeah....
It would be nice if they were trained and held accountable to Get it Right! every time.

Driving while Black...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se4aXahuGrw

I think we should All get cameras for inside and outside our cars.
Maybe, a camera should become Standard Equipment.

(Gack!) Creeping PoliceState becomes a Runaway What?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1_rCrKn_E
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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