0988: "Tradition"

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TG333
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby TG333 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:57 am UTC

Quite surprised that "last christmas" didn´t make the top 20, over here in Germany it´s prob #1 by a big a margin
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Yla
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Yla » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:57 am UTC

A lot of these songs I only know through the Lovecraft Historical Society...
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The Moomin
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby The Moomin » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:02 am UTC

I think the most played christmas song in the uk for 6:30-10:00 on a weekday morning is Dominick the Donkey.

Ay, jing a de jing hee haw hee haw, it's Dominick the Donkey
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NotAllThere
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby NotAllThere » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:15 am UTC

A shopping mall favourite is Chris De Burgh - A Spacemen Came Travelling - 1975. I used to really like it. I'm so ashamed. :oops:
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AvatarIII
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:32 am UTC

a0903638 wrote:hm... What about "Last Christmas" by Wham!? At least in Europe it's the song almost everyone from any generation seems to complain about the most... (which is also part of the tradition) :roll:


I was thinking that, at least in the UK, most of the Big Christmas songs are from the 70s and 80s

the UK list is
"All I Want for Christmas Is You" – Mariah Carey (90s)
"Last Christmas" – Wham! (80s)
"Fairytale of New York" – The Pogues with Kirsty MacColl (80s)
"Do They Know It’s Christmas?" – Band Aid (80s)
"Merry Xmas Everybody" - Slade (70s)
"White Christmas" - Louis Armstrong (50s)
"Driving Home for Christmas" – Chris Rea (80s)
"Merry Christmas Everyone" - Shakin' Stevens (80s)
"Mistletoe and Wine" – Cliff Richard (80s)
"Walking in the Air" - Aled Jones (80s)


one song from the 50s
one from the 70s
seven from the 80s
and one from the 90s

Included in previous lists—like those for 2009 and 2008—are such titles as "Stop the Cavalry" - Jona Lewie (80s), "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" - Bruce Springsteen (70s), "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day" - Wizzard (70s), "Step into Christmas" - Elton John (70s), "Lonely This Christmas" - Mud (70s), and "White Christmas" by Bing Crosby (40s).


one from the 40s
four from the 70s
and one from the 80s

I guess we are trying to rekindle the baby boomer's kid's childhoods, right?

tjunction
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby tjunction » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:59 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:the UK list is
"All I Want for Christmas Is You" – Mariah Carey (90s)
"Last Christmas" – Wham! (80s)
"Fairytale of New York" – The Pogues with Kirsty MacColl (80s)
"Do They Know It’s Christmas?" – Band Aid (80s)
"Merry Xmas Everybody" - Slade (70s)
"White Christmas" - Louis Armstrong (50s)
"Driving Home for Christmas" – Chris Rea (80s)
"Merry Christmas Everyone" - Shakin' Stevens (80s)
"Mistletoe and Wine" – Cliff Richard (80s)
"Walking in the Air" - Aled Jones (80s)



It's not even just airplay - The Pogues and Mariah Carey even re-entered the sales chart (within the top 30) last week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/chart/singles

That's iTunes for you.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Proginoskes » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:02 am UTC

Stanistani wrote:When we boomers all die off, The United States will be a wasteland of empty houses, abandoned cars,


Zero money ... (Which generation has mismanaged the economy since 1980? Boomers.)

and the Yule will be celebrated with Festivus poles and the screechy refrain of Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer.

It will be a glorious era.


Nah, killing all those whiny, greedy boomers will be a better time. "Would you rather burn a flag or burn a bank?" -- Jello Biafra

(Man I'm dark tonight ... Better change topics ...)

About the only Christmas songs I can stand are:

Twelve Days of Christmas, by the MacKenzie Brothers (SCTV)
Jingle Bells, by the dogs barking
I Am Santa Claus, the parody of Black Sabbath's "Iron Man"

I can't even stand that dumb "Grandma got run over by a reindeer" any more.
I actually changed the station my clock-radio is set to, because the old one started playing that Cmas glurge in November.

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Immanio
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Immanio » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:06 am UTC

Yla wrote:A lot of these songs I only know through the Lovecraft Historical Society...

That's something like what I went to the forum to say. When christmas comes around, I start humming "Great Old Ones are coming to town", "Away in a madhouse", "Freddy the red-brained Migo", "Awake ye scary Great Old Ones", "I'm dreaming of a dead city", and so on...

All together now:
Awake ye scary Great Old Ones, let everything dismay
Remember Great Cthulhu shall rise up from R'lyeh
To kill us all with tentacles if we should come his way
Oh tidings of madness and woe, madness and woe
Oh tidings of madness and woe

In Yoggoth and in Aldebaran the Great Old Ones did spawn
Imprisoned by the Elder Gods to wait for long eons
Enticing humans to release them chanting dreadful songs
Oh tidings of madness and woe, madness and woe
Oh tidings of madness and woe

An Arab said that is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange eons you will find that even death may die
The Great Old Ones shall rule once more and all will be destroyed
Oh tidings of madness and woe, madness and woe
Oh tidings of madness and woe

(Written from memory, so might not be exact)

Edit: As an aside, I have no idea what Norwegian radio stations are playing, as I don't really listen to radio. Or watch TV, pretty much.
Last edited by Immanio on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:27 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby markfiend » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:09 am UTC

HiFranc wrote:Walking in the Air (from the animation The Snowman)

Interesting factoid: The version that gets all the airplay (and made all the money) is the one sung by Aled Jones. The version that was actually in The Snowman was sung by Peter Auty.
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OP Tipping
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby OP Tipping » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:13 am UTC

I'm gobsmacked that "All I want for Christmas is you" isn't there. I thought that got huge rotation.

In some non-American English speaking countries, Do They Know It's Christmas and Last Christmas get some airplay.


BTW there WILL be snow in Africa this Christmas, particularly in the ski resorts of Morocco and Algeria.

Mattman
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Mattman » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:27 am UTC

It's a good chart to see, but...

Am I really the only one who thinks it's ironic that it looks like it's flipping the bird? No one else has pointed that out yet.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby rhhardin » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:39 am UTC

It might just be a product of the size of the recording industry and the presence of songs with an actual melody.

adzze
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby adzze » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:50 am UTC

Can't believe Snoopy's Christmas isn't on that list (although being made in 1967 it scrapes out of the boomer generation by a whisker)... Or maybe it just doesn't get played in the US?

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby OP Tipping » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:51 am UTC

Who listens to the radio these days anyway?

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AvatarIII
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am UTC

OP Tipping wrote:Who listens to the radio these days anyway?



baby boomers... :|

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ysth
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby ysth » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:21 am UTC

My favorite xmas song/performance art: The Calamity Carolers of Doom present the 12 isms of xmas
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby PeepsMcJuggs » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:32 am UTC

TheCorrine wrote:On behalf of everyone in England, I'd just like to say...

WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD SONGS?


You can't fool me, Corrine; I lived in England for three years. Christmas music in England means:
1. Paul McCartney's "Wonderful Christmas Time"
2. Wham!'s "Last Christmas"
3. The Pogues' "Fairytale of New York"
4. 3 different versions of Band Aid's "Do They Know It's Christmas?"

On repeat. On every station.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby dragondave » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:53 am UTC

Most played Christmas hits, according to the PRS (UK)
source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7754712.stm
Image

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Deep_Thought » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:00 pm UTC

@PeepsMcJuggs: I see nothing contradictory between your post and TheCorrine's. The Pogue's Fairytale in New York is possibly the finest song ever written. EVER.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby zoffenberger » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:03 pm UTC

it's an interesting "conspiracy theory," but I think there's probably a bit more to it than that. I think it's probably because people who run commercial radio stations in the US tend to be baby boomers, first of all, and second of all they're secular, good for sing-alongs and have largely shaped the American conception of Christmas, eg rudolph, frosty, etc. Plus it represents America back when there was a strong unified culture, not an explosion of subcultures like today. Could anyone agree on a list of twenty songs to replace these? I'd rather never have to listen to Mariah Carey's song again, myself. If it were up to me I'd make it all Sufjan Stevens Christmas songs; the incredible diversity of opinion only helps to reinforce this phenomenon IMO.

tjunction
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby tjunction » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:08 pm UTC

dragondave wrote:Most played Christmas hits, according to the PRS (UK)
source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7754712.stm
Image


Where did you get that chart from? Carey was only 5 years old in 1975! That song was released in 1994.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby PeepsMcJuggs » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:16 pm UTC

Deep_Thought wrote:@PeepsMcJuggs: I see nothing contradictory between your post and TheCorrine's. The Pogue's Fairytale in New York is possibly the finest song ever written. EVER.


It's a decent song. And even the best song in the world would make me want to kill people if I heard it eight times in a day (no really, I actually counted once).

Edit: And Wham! is an unforgivable curse.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby anfg » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:21 pm UTC

Perhaps a lot of this bias has to do with the demise of radio in favor of self-programmed personal stereo (beginning with Walkmans and mix tapes), and the rise (at least in the U.S.) of media consolidation by the likes of Clear Channel.

Anyway, a few contributions:

• Baby, It's Cold Outside — 1930s
• 2000 Miles (The Pretenders) — 1980s

The first one doesn't explicitly mention reference xmas, but it's commonly played in the mix due to its wintry theme.

There's also this one:

• You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch — 1960s

from a xmas story that doesn't by itself seem to have any connection. :shock:

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby jonadab » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:24 pm UTC

Radio stations play what baby boomers want to hear because old people listen to the radio. (Although, it does depend somewhat on what station you tune in to. Some radio stations play Tchaikovsky this time of year...)

In any case, people under the age of forty use portable audio players, so radio is fairly irrelevant for us.

And even the best song in the world would make me want to kill people if I heard it eight times in a day


I could listen to the Munchinger string ensemble rendition of BWV 1080 eight times in a day and still enjoy it.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby ronald » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:48 pm UTC

The closest equivalent list for the UK (20 most played christmas songs, 2000-2009, sourced by PPL - the broadcast licensors) can be found here:

http://www.ppluk.com/en/About-Us/News/Press/All-I-Want-For-Christmas-Is-You-announced-as-the-PPL-most-played-Christmas-song-of-the-decade/

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby radtea » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:48 pm UTC

zoffenberger wrote: Plus it represents America back when there was a strong unified culture, not an explosion of subcultures like today.


The sub-cultures were there in the '50's, they just didn't have the voice or visibility they do today. Even things like being handicapped tended to be pushed into the background and not seen in polite company or public.

The world changed in the 60's by breaking down those barriers, and that's mostly a good thing. I'll take healthy diversity and hybrid vigour any day over the monolithic monoculture of the '50's.
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby zephalis » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:51 pm UTC

tjunction wrote:
dragondave wrote:Most played Christmas hits, according to the PRS (UK)
source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7754712.stm
Image


Where did you get that chart from? Carey was only 5 years old in 1975! That song was released in 1994.


He didn't tell the whole of what the source was based on. These are the top performed renditions of songs from the last five years listed by performer. It really doesn't fit in here unless we also have an equivalent list for the same here. As for the chart...I'm guessing he made it himself from the list.

. .
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby . . » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:11 pm UTC

Darn it Randall! You screwed up! You used this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_ ... _.28USA.29

That only applies to songs that pay royalties to members of the American Society of Composers, Artists, and Publishers (check the Wikipedia source.) Of course they're all written in mid 20th century. Older songs are in the public domain and you don't have to pay royalties to play them!

Anybody who listens to those 24/7 Christmas music all December stations knows that Oh Holy Night is the most overplayed song, or at least in the top 5. The truth is, most Christmas songs are very traditional. When is the last time you said "Hark," without saying "The Herald Angels Sing"? The music to What Child Is This is based on Greensleeves, probably the oldest song known that still survives!

I think it's very interesting that none of the songs on the list of 20 are religious. I can't think of any Christmas song pre-20th century that isn't religious, except Jingle Bells, which was a Thanksgiving song originally. Society is definitely changing!

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Symbiote » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:26 pm UTC

ronald wrote:The closest equivalent list for the UK (20 most played christmas songs, 2000-2009, sourced by PPL - the broadcast licensors) can be found here:

http://www.ppluk.com/en/About-Us/News/Press/All-I-Want-For-Christmas-Is-You-announced-as-the-PPL-most-played-Christmas-song-of-the-decade/


Here's the chart made with that data:
...only I lost my old username and had to re-register, so as a new user it's just an unlinked URL: http://i.imm.io/cHd7.png

zephalis
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby zephalis » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:34 pm UTC

It's funny that Jingle Bells isn't on there.

It's interesting that Jingle Bells is known to most people in the US but how few know that there is 4 verses and that it's the equivalent of 'whoever has the best car gets the girls'.

Also interesting is that the US national anthem also has 3 relatively unknown verses that we never hear...despite hearing some pretty horrid versions before every major sporting event.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:44 pm UTC

zephalis wrote:It's funny that Jingle Bells isn't on there.

It's interesting that Jingle Bells is known to most people in the US but how few know that there is 4 verses and that it's the equivalent of 'whoever has the best car gets the girls'.

Also interesting is that the US national anthem also has 3 relatively unknown verses that we never hear...despite hearing some pretty horrid versions before every major sporting event.


lets see if i can remember then

dashing through the snow
on a one horse open sleigh
o'er the hills we go
laughing all the way hahaha

bells on bobtail ring
making spirits bright
oh what fun it is to laugh and sing
our sleighing song tonight

ooooh.... (obvious bit)

that's all I can remember.

boriquajake
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby boriquajake » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:44 pm UTC

Hah!!! I love it. Babyboomers suck.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Linux0s » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:01 pm UTC

The Moomin wrote:I think the most played christmas song in the uk for 6:30-10:00 on a weekday morning is Dominick the Donkey.
Ay, jing a de jing hee haw hee haw, it's Dominick the Donkey

I am so very, very sorry.


Also interesting is some of the non-Christmas songs that get lumped in with holiday music:

Linus & Lucy - Vince Guaraldi Trio
What a Wonderful World - Louis Armstrong
Same Old Lang Syne- Dan Fogelberg
If the male mind truly were a machine it would consist of a shaft and a bushing.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby ElectricTurtle » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

. . wrote:The music to What Child Is This is based on Greensleeves, probably the oldest song known that still survives!


Greensleeves really isn't that old. Considering the development of the English language itself it can't be much older than Chaucer, if even that old. And it wasn't (known) to have been put to paper before the 16th century. There are plenty of songs written and extant from the Greco-Roman era, though lacking the accompanying music. For written music among the oldest are things like Jieshi Diao Youlan, which was written before Western culture even existed.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Brett Dunbar » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:17 pm UTC

ronald wrote:The closest equivalent list for the UK (20 most played Christmas songs, 2000-2009, sourced by PPL - the broadcast licensors) can be found here:

http://www.ppluk.com/en/About-Us/News/Press/All-I-Want-For-Christmas-Is-You-announced-as-the-PPL-most-played-Christmas-song-of-the-decade/


From that we get (going by composition rather than recording year where they differ)

    Winter Wonderland Darlene Love 1934
    White Christmas Bing Crosby 1942
    Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Dean Martin 1945
    Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree Brenda Lee 1958
    Happly Xmas (War Is Over) John and Yoko 1971
    I Wish It Could Be Christmas Everyday Wizzard 1973
    Merry Xmas Everbody Slade 1973
    Step Into Christmas Elton John 1973
    I Believe In Father Christmas Greg Lake 1975
    Wonderful Christmas Time Paul McCartney 1979
    Stop The Cavalry Jona Lewie 1980
    2000 Miles The Pretenders 1983
    Last Christmas Wham! 1984
    Do They Know It's Christmas? Band Aid 1984
    The Power Of Love Frankie Goes To Hollywood 1984
    Merry Christmas Everyone Shakin' Stevens 1985
    Fairytale Of New York The Pogues featuring Kirsty Mccoll 1987
    Driving Home For Christmas Chris Rea 1988
    All I Want For Christmas Is You Mariah Carey 1994
    Stay Another Day East 17 1994

One from then 1930s, two from the 1940s, one from the 1950s, none from the 1960s, six from 1970s, eight from the 1980s and two from the 1990s. Oddly both 1973 and 1984 have three entries and 1994 has two.

. .
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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby . . » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:21 pm UTC

ElectricTurtle wrote:
. . wrote:The music to What Child Is This is based on Greensleeves, probably the oldest song known that still survives!


Greensleeves really isn't that old. Considering the development of the English language itself it can't be much older than Chaucer, if even that old. And it wasn't (known) to have been put to paper before the 16th century. There are plenty of songs written and extant from the Greco-Roman era, though lacking the accompanying music. For written music among the oldest are things like Jieshi Diao Youlan, which was written before Western culture even existed.


Oh yes, I did indeed mean English-language tradition, which while ancient compared to songs with royalties still being paid out, is actually recent compared to the actual first music. No doubt we've been singing accompanied by precussion since before we left Africa. =)

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Gamer_2k4 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:44 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
OP Tipping wrote:Who listens to the radio these days anyway?


baby boomers... :|


Well, that naturally prompts the question, "What's the problem?"

Besides, everything Christmas-related is based in tradition. Why do we put up trees? Why do we gift gifts? What's the deal with mistletoe? None of these are recent developments. Christmas is a traditional holiday, so we hear traditional music.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:51 pm UTC

Gamer_2k4 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
OP Tipping wrote:Who listens to the radio these days anyway?


baby boomers... :|


Well, that naturally prompts the question, "What's the problem?"

Besides, everything Christmas-related is based in tradition. Why do we put up trees? Why do we gift gifts? What's the deal with mistletoe? None of these are recent developments. Christmas is a traditional holiday, so we hear traditional music.


what's what problem? the :| was supposed to imply obviousness.
I was merely pointing out that if the list is based on radio-play and the list comprises of mostly baby boomer childhood songs, it stands to reason that it's baby boomers that listen to the radio, not to mention they are a massive generation of people who are probably more averse to advancing technology than say people born in the 60s.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby Andrusi » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:53 pm UTC

I say we dump 'em all and switch over to the scores from Christmas-themed movies. Lyrics are overrated.
Not named Dennis Miller.

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Re: 988: "Tradition"

Postby PeepsMcJuggs » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:59 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
zephalis wrote:It's funny that Jingle Bells isn't on there.

It's interesting that Jingle Bells is known to most people in the US but how few know that there is 4 verses and that it's the equivalent of 'whoever has the best car gets the girls'.

Also interesting is that the US national anthem also has 3 relatively unknown verses that we never hear...despite hearing some pretty horrid versions before every major sporting event.


lets see if i can remember then

dashing through the snow
on a one horse open sleigh
o'er the hills we go
laughing all the way hahaha

bells on bobtail ring
making spirits bright
oh what fun it is to laugh and sing
our sleighing song tonight

ooooh.... (obvious bit)

that's all I can remember.


"A day or two ago
I went out for a ride
And soon Miss Fanny Bright
Was seated by my side.

"The horse was lean and lank
Misfortune seemed his lot
We drifted into a crowded bank
And then we got upsot (what?).

"Oh Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle All the Way!
(I don't know whose playing them bells,
But I wish they'd sound their age...)"

Edit: Okay, it wasn't Duke Ellington :mrgreen: This version was Johnny Mercer...not sure what CD that one was on.
Last edited by PeepsMcJuggs on Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:09 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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