0852: "Local g"

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:38 pm UTC

soren121 wrote:Attention everyone: The typo has been corrected! I repeat, the typo has been corrected! You may now go on with your lives.


What? But I thought Randall didn't get do-overs...

And yes, it IS painful to see the joke explained and over-explained at those last panels.

Bounsy wrote:What surprises me is the number of people saying that the last few panels are unnecessary. True, the pole vault joke doesn't need them. But why can't there be more than one punchline in a single comic?


Since when is that having "more than one punchline"? The punchline is only one: the athletes climbed the balcony by pole-vaulting. It's just exposed in different ways, and it's dragged on for too long, as if the readers were too dumb to get it right away. The last panel is just Randall thinking that the joke isn't clear enough and pushing it way over the edge for his readers. It's what people with a minimum knowledge on actual comedy call "post-punchline dialogue", which, as a rule of thumb, should be eliminated completely.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Analogy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:25 pm UTC

squig wrote:
Amomynous wrote:Also, i am the worst Grammer Nazi i've ever come across. I can't have a conversation with somebody that doesn't spell correctly or write in proper English, so this really kicked me in the balls.

LOL - well spotted :D

I think we can disregard the gravity of the Sun and moon, because they also act on the Earth as well, pulling it in the same direction as they pull us.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby bmonk » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:34 pm UTC

But, if we are going to correct for gravity differences, we really should also correct of air density, possibly O2 pressure, and even other factors--e.g. windspeed. All these might require non-existent or obscure data to do properly...
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Vehemence » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:58 pm UTC

Amomynous wrote:Also, i am the worst Grammer Nazi i've ever come across. I can't have a conversation with somebody that doesn't spell correctly or write in proper English, so this really kicked me in the balls.

It's not necessary to share your self-loathing with the rest of the class.

Also, I'm pretty sure this whole discussion about the best places to jump, and the impact of the shape of the earth, and the gravitational pull of the moon and sun and platypuses on jumpers will be moot as soon as this conversations shifts to what is obviously the most important topic: pole vaulting velociraptors in space.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby bmonk » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:39 pm UTC

Vehemence wrote:...Also, I'm pretty sure this whole discussion about the best places to jump, and the impact of the shape of the earth, and the gravitational pull of the moon and sun and platypuses on jumpers will be moot as soon as this conversations shifts to what is obviously the most important topic: pole vaulting velociraptors in space.



Did you forget: "...flying Space-adapted F-22s."?
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Kazan » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:07 pm UTC

Far more importantly than the buy typo, in proper English it's spelt honour, not honor. It dishonours the Queen to see it spelt otherwise. Silly Americans.

Also, most of you suck.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby kpmelomane21 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:21 pm UTC

kári wrote:Am I the only one who, after seeing the typo, looked for other typos and stared like five minutes at the 'affect' in the next pane?


I totally did this too!

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Vehemence » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:08 pm UTC

I'm sure with the given acceleration of 4 m/s^2 with a top speed of 25 m/s, along with what's known about the moon and its gravity, the likely pole vaulting capabilities of a raptor on our natural satellite could be determined.

I don't know why I want this to be discussed seriously, but I do.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Tyrannosaur » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:12 pm UTC

well how high can a raptor jump on earth without a pole? and by what factor does a pole help the jump?
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby crimeo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:28 pm UTC

kpmelomane21 wrote:
kári wrote:Am I the only one who, after seeing the typo, looked for other typos and stared like five minutes at the 'affect' in the next pane?


I totally did this too!

I was a teaching assistant for a class once where my students were statistically significantly BELOW chance guessing when it came to using affect and effect in every instance, as both nouns and verbs. It was a psychology class, too, so affect as a noun actually came up and was relevant.



Postby Almost in register » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:37 pm UTC
Please stop calling it a typo; it's not a typo if you don't type anything.

Also, the error looks to be fixed.

Dauthi wrote:Regarding the question mark controversy... There is a demand for an answer; therefore, it is a question.


Sorry, no. Try reading it as a bona-fide question. The emphasis ends up in the wrong spot (either on "doubt" or "honor"). For it to have the correct emphasis (on "dare"), it needs to be an exclamation.


...No. It CAN be a question, if it is intended to receive a [real or rhetorically hypothetical] answer in context. Which word is emphasized has nothing to do with whether it can be a question or not. That just changes WHICH question you would be asking, and which information you expect:

How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = How do you have so much audacity as to cast doubt on our honor?
How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = Who are you, of all people, to cast doubt on our honor?
How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = Why don't you remove some doubt from our honor instead?
How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = Surely "suspicion" is a more accurate thing to cast in this case, isn't it?
How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = Shouldn't you and our honor collaborate in casting doubt in other ways?
How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = Aren't those other guys less honorable than us?
How dare you cast doubt on our honor? = Why not cast doubt on our hygiene instead?

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Xami » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:45 pm UTC

Maybe he is trying to appeal to a wider audience by spelling out the punchline.
You could be smug and tell everyone your gigantic awesome brain did not need the help, or just, you know... shut up.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby BioTurboNick » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:37 pm UTC

Analogy wrote:
squig wrote:
Amomynous wrote:Also, i am the worst Grammer Nazi i've ever come across. I can't have a conversation with somebody that doesn't spell correctly or write in proper English, so this really kicked me in the balls.

LOL - well spotted :D

I think we can disregard the gravity of the Sun and moon, because they also act on the Earth as well, pulling it in the same direction as they pull us.


I don't believe that is true. After all, the moon is pulling on both the oceans and the land, yet it manages to affect the water more than the land because the water is able to deform and rise up.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby meh » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:24 am UTC

Dauthi wrote:Regarding the question mark controversy... There is a demand for an answer; therefore, it is a question. It may be rhetorical, i.e., the asker may not actually expect an answer, but it is still asking for one. And how do you know that the asker wasn't genuinely seeking a response? (Was that question rhetorical or genuine? What about that one? This one? At least one of those was rhetorical, should I have used question marks?)


Just because a statement demands an answer doesn't mean it needs a question mark. Tell me why you think otherwise. (That was an example.)

In the case of "How dare you." or probably more commonly "How dare you!" I think the sense in which it's an exclamation or a statement rather than a question is that it's clearly rhetorical. A person who says "How dare you!" isn't actually inquiring about the psychological and biological processes by which you came so to dare.

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ad punchlines

Postby _rq » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:21 am UTC

I think,
the last panel serves great as a straight counterpoint. it has stick figures in believable poses (shown closely) and deadpan commentary. I felt drawn in by the break of the absurd.
also, things don't have to end on punchlines.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:58 am UTC

meh wrote:In the case of "How dare you." or probably more commonly "How dare you!" I think the sense in which it's an exclamation or a statement rather than a question is that it's clearly rhetorical. A person who says "How dare you!" isn't actually inquiring about the psychological and biological processes by which you came so to dare.

What would you say about something like "How could you do such a thing(?)"? Question mark or no? Or for a more extended version, something like: "How could you do such a thing? How!? What could possibly possess you to think that that was a good idea!? Did you even think through this at all?" Would you say that any of those sentences deserve question marks? To my ear they have the same level of question-mark-deservingness as "How dare you...?" type sentences.
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Fixblor » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:21 am UTC

I was told there would be typos.
This the typo forum, correct?
Why no typos? Was the typo typoed?
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:53 pm UTC

Regarding the "honor" line, I wonder why so many folks are getting so worked up about the question mark, when it's a much more horrifying to realise how goddamn awful that line is. Come on, Randall, where did you learn that purple prose? Fanfiction.net?

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby adaviel » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:47 pm UTC

Posthumane wrote:.. one thing that HAS bothered me is the way they do starts for a sprint. They have a guy on one side of the track who fires a starting pistol, and I assume that's when the timing starts. However, being that the track has some width to it, the racer farther from the starting pistol will hear the sound a fraction of a second later than the guy closest to it. The time differences between racers are often incredibly small, so it might make a difference. .


When I was about 10 (1960's) they started to use electronic timing, and there was an magazine article about "accurate at the speed of light" or something. I wrote back pointing out the speed of sound issue, and had a reply saying they would "forward my comments appropriately".

I notice nowadays that at some venues, there is a loudspeaker behind each athlete presumably to relay the sound of the starting gun simultaneously.
For longer events where the starting blocks are staggered around the track, the sound delay would be a greater issue, but it seems the starting gun is often placed somewhere equidistant from the athletes, rather than directly up the track.

I believe the starting pistol has an wired connection to the timing electronics. Finish times are determined by video frame analysis from a camera pointing straight across the line to a marker board the other side, and primarily by stopwatch switches - a timing official watches each lane, and presses the button when their athlete crosses the line. At least at the club level.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby adaviel » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:55 pm UTC

So does local g affect the dash record ? A lower weight/mass ratio would affect friction between shoes and track and thus maximum acceleration. Wait .. dash runners wear spikes. Maybe some indoor event where they are banned.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby WolfieMario » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:20 pm UTC

Honestly, the first thing this comic made me think of was Parke Kunkle's report about how the Zodiac is off, and how many people reacted to it. Same premise too: some random person who doesn't have any stake in [subject] (Kunkle doesn't believe in horoscopes, while this guy was never a pole-vaulter) makes some observation about the Earth, posts a report about it, and incites fury from the people it does matter to. I suppose Kunkle's just lucky he didn't piss off any (or too many) pole-vaulters :P
But did anyone else think Randall was referencing Kunkle's Zodiac change? I didn't see anyone else suggest it.

First post here by the way :D

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby mojo-chan » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:20 am UTC

Altitude: Does the thinner air make any significant difference to air resistance? Of course you have the lower level of oxygen to contend with but over a short race like the 100m and with a suitable warm-up that might not matter.

Temperature: How does it affect the length of the pole in the pole vault? Most materials expand and contract has temperature varies. Even the synthetic materials the make the soles of shoes out of could behave differently.

Considering that some athletes shave their entire bodies (particularly swimmers) it makes me wonder if there is something to this. We need to do a statistical analysis of past Olympics compared to height above sea level and temperature.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby c15 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:34 pm UTC

Actually, "centrifugal" is not correct in this context, as that only applies to a rotating disk. For a rotating sphere or ellipsoid, the correct term is "axifugal".

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Tyrannosaur » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:00 pm UTC

c15 wrote:Actually, "centrifugal" is not correct in this context, as that only applies to a rotating disk. For a rotating sphere or ellipsoid, the correct term is "axifugal".


pole vaulters run in a straight line, so simplifying it to a rotating disk isnt terrible
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Fixblor » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:48 am UTC

Tyrannosaur wrote:
c15 wrote:Actually, "centrifugal" is not correct in this context, as that only applies to a rotating disk. For a rotating sphere or ellipsoid, the correct term is "axifugal".


pole vaulters run in a straight line, so simplifying it to a rotating disk isnt terrible


Huh ... well, the Earth rotates. So if the pole vaulters are running on a parallel course to the direction of the spin, then simplifying to a rotating disk isn't as terrible, no. Atleast from a maths POV.

Axifugal ... learn something new everyday.
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Vehemence » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:33 pm UTC

c15 wrote:Actually, "centrifugal" is not correct in this context, as that only applies to a rotating disk. For a rotating sphere or ellipsoid, the correct term is "axifugal".

"Axifugal Force" sounds like a Steven Segal movie.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby TheFreeloader » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:08 pm UTC

Wouldn't it be more significant in throwing events than pole vault. I mean the top athletes in those are quite a bit closer. Also, I don't know the math on this, but wouldn't an x% higher throw be more than x% longer?

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby eddeye » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

This is exactly one of those "What geeks imagine" versus "What would actually happen" situations.

World class athletes (and especially their trainers) are very knowledgeable about their field. They can detect miniscule changes in the weight of their equipment, understand the impact of slight differences in physiological motions, and study all sorts of environmental factors that can give them the slightest edge.

While gravity impacts them all equally, many would still be very interested in the result. Of their many potential responses - curiosity, apathy, dismissal - anger is not among them.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby kreil » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:34 pm UTC

Beautiful visualization of local gravity variation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12911806

Cheers,
David

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby addams » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:24 pm UTC

eddeye wrote:This is exactly one of those "What geeks imagine" versus "What would actually happen" situations.

World class athletes (and especially their trainers) are very knowledgeable about their field. They can detect miniscule changes in the weight of their equipment, understand the impact of slight differences in physiological motions, and study all sorts of environmental factors that can give them the slightest edge.

While gravity impacts them all equally, many would still be very interested in the result. Of their many potential responses - curiosity, apathy, dismissal - anger is not among them.


This is so funny. It is true. It is the people that don't know anything that may experience anger. Scientists and Numbers guys might wander off asking questions like; If, London is the Moon and Rio J is Jupiter then; Who made your space suit?
Scientists can play games of throw the ball and fly the kite, too. It is not all equations. Equations are pretty. That is all they are to me. Pretty.

Beautiful visualization of local gravity variation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12911806

Cheers,
David

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby sdaddy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:40 am UTC

For all Grammar Nazis out there, spelling is not that important to the brain. Consider that we can read this:

O lny srmat poelpe can r aed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Tyrannosaur » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:47 am UTC

Correct/incorrect spelling/grammar isn't all that important, no. It's when it gets dangerously ambiguous that grammar gets important.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby jpk » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:13 am UTC

sdaddy wrote:For all Grammar Nazis out there, spelling is not that important to the brain. Consider that we can read this:

O lny srmat poelpe can r aed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!



Consider how long it takes you to translate that into English.
Lessons from this exercise?

(1) Yes, you can reconstruct non-standard English. You can reconstruct what someone meant to write from what they actually wrote.
(2) However, it takes a lot longer than reading standard English, and it's annoying

(3) Forcing someone to do that is rude and disrespectful, and frankly, arrogant. It presumes that someone cares enough about what you write to put up with your disrespect for their time.
So:
(4) If you want people to bother to read what you write, or to pay attention to it - that is, if you care about what you write - observe the local standards of the written language
(5) If you don't care about what you write, don't write it at all.

And finally:
(6) If you want to be completely ignored, jump on someone for an obvious typo.

Sorted. Can we all just get along now?

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby sdaddy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:02 am UTC

I perfectly agree with you. As long as you talk about language butchery on purpose (e.g. internet/text slang), semantic ambiguity and repeated mistakes with the same words, it is perfectly fine to point this out to the writer because it is annoying, lazy and harder to read. In this case we talk about one honest mistake by someone who's language is generally perfect, i.e. your point 6. Everyone makes those mistakes. Even after repeated proof reading some typos will come through at some point. Complaining about that is in my book not only a reason to be ignored, but it is rude and disrespectful as well. Especially as it completely messes up the original on-topic discussion. Which is something that can and should be frowned upon and pointed out in my opinion. Just my two cents.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby doggitydogs » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:14 am UTC

jpk wrote:
sdaddy wrote:For all Grammar Nazis out there, spelling is not that important to the brain. Consider that we can read this:

O lny srmat poelpe can r aed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!



Consider how long it takes you to translate that into English.
Lessons from this exercise?

(1) Yes, you can reconstruct non-standard English. You can reconstruct what someone meant to write from what they actually wrote.
(2) However, it takes a lot longer than reading standard English, and it's annoying

(3) Forcing someone to do that is rude and disrespectful, and frankly, arrogant. It presumes that someone cares enough about what you write to put up with your disrespect for their time.
So:
(4) If you want people to bother to read what you write, or to pay attention to it - that is, if you care about what you write - observe the local standards of the written language
(5) If you don't care about what you write, don't write it at all.

And finally:
(6) If you want to be completely ignored, jump on someone for an obvious typo.

Sorted. Can we all just get along now?


Only smart people can read this.
I couldn't believe that I could actually understand what I was reading. The phenomenal power of the human mind, according to a research at Cambridge University, it doesn't matter in what order the letters in a word are, the only important thing is that the first and last letter be in the right place. The rest can be a total mess and you can still read it without a problem. This is because the human mind does not read every letter by itself, but the word as a whole. Amazing huh? yeah and I always thought spelling was important!

That took me exactly 108 seconds. Retyping the "translated" version took me 100 seconds. That doesn't seem like a very significant difference to me.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby karanj » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:28 am UTC

I'm just curious if there's a possible application of that theory to cryptography - the decoded string being a load of apparent gibberish to a computer... Not that I know the first thing about advanced crypto, but it seems like that could be a viable advance!

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby pernishus » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:04 pm UTC

Well folks, props to Randall for anticipating world record pole vaults at Rio.

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pogrmman
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby pogrmman » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:52 pm UTC

pernishus wrote:Well folks, props to Randall for anticipating world record Olympic record pole vaults at Rio.


Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but it wasn't a world record.
The world record was set in 2014 by a Frenchman in Ukraine.

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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby Bounty » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:06 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:
pernishus wrote:Well folks, props to Randall for anticipating world record Olympic record pole vaults at Rio.


Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but it wasn't a world record.
The world record was set in 2014 by a Frenchman in Ukraine.


And how does Ukraine's local gravity compare to that of London and Rio?

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pogrmman
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby pogrmman » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:10 pm UTC

Bounty wrote:
pogrmman wrote:
pernishus wrote:Well folks, props to Randall for anticipating world record Olympic record pole vaults at Rio.


Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but it wasn't a world record.
The world record was set in 2014 by a Frenchman in Ukraine.


And how does Ukraine's local gravity compare to that of London and Rio?

I don't know off the top of my head. You could probably find out somewhere. That record was indoors, so there aren't many as many factors going against the jump like with outdoor ones.

pernishus
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Re: 0852: "Local g"

Postby pernishus » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:30 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:
Bounty wrote:
pogrmman wrote:
pernishus wrote:Well folks, props to Randall for anticipating world record Olympic record pole vaults at Rio.


Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but it wasn't a world record.
The world record was set in 2014 by a Frenchman in Ukraine.


And how does Ukraine's local gravity compare to that of London and Rio?

I don't know off the top of my head. You could probably find out somewhere. That record was indoors, so there aren't many as many factors going against the jump like with outdoor ones.


Here's one map I found:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... ravity-3-d

It looks like Ukraine certainly has a lower local g than GB, but possibly higher than Brazil. It appears the best place to vault from would be southern India.


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