0638: "The Search"

[nomulous]

http://xkcd.com/638/


title="I am so excited about the Kepler mission. This is the second most important thing our species has ever done, right behind inventing the concept of delivery pizza."

Can I propose that in the future we call the "alt" text by its true name, title? Does this drive anyone else crazy?

[dennisw]

Damn, I think I just poured Amdro all over that colony!

[glasnt]

I always thought it was an Alt text, because it displays like it. I only just checked the source code now, and it is indeed 'Title' text. But it's not a title! The text doesn't read 'The Search', therefore it is not a title.

Hi joee.

[joee]

hi glasnt!

Interesting, randall. how *will* we know we've discovered sentient life?

[Duban]

So true. Randell Get out of my head!

[sourmìlk]

Commentary on our extra-terrestrial search efforts as well as extremely funny. Good job randal

O' the cheese doth burneth hot!

[nomulous]

I always thought it was an Alt text, because it displays like it. I only just checked the source code now, and it is indeed 'Title' text. But it's not a title! The text doesn't read 'The Search', therefore it is not a title.

Maybe it just bothers me because I speak more HTML than English. You know it's bad when you start seeing HTML tags in your own hand-written notes and stuff.

['; DROP DATABASE;--]

Don't they wonder what keeps dropping food and stepping on them? >_>

[Nasaniaru]

Wow. Been a while since a thought provoking comic such as this has come up. I'm going to now go and research up this Kepler mission.

[glasnt]

Don't they wonder what keeps dropping food and stepping on them? >_>

Ant-Jesus.

[Steve the Pocket]

Can I propose that in the future we call the "alt" text by its true name, title? Does this drive anyone else crazy?

I always thought it was an Alt text, because it displays like it. I only just checked the source code now, and it is indeed 'Title' text. But it's not a title! The text doesn't read 'The Search', therefore it is not a title.

Indeed, it's more of an Easter egg than anything. In fact, real alt text functions more like a title... or caption... GAH! If I start listing everything that's illogical about HTML semantics, I'll be here all night. I mean, I will anyway, but that's because I've got three TV Tropes tabs open. But I digress. This comic is genius. I propose showing this to any friends who think SETI isn't a huge waste of money.

[Comic JK]

"Dozens of floor tiles"...priceless. But I think that the effect of humans would be pretty noticeable for ants. Even if they couldn't communicate with us, they would see our actions and know that something was up there. It's reminiscent of an Arthur C. Clarke story in which astronomers spot some stars that are just jumping around for no reason. They're forced to conclude that there is intelligent life out there--and that it's much, much more advanced than us.

If you don't like to call it title-text--since, you're right, it usually isn't used for title of an image--call it a tooltip, as in this xkcd.

[aeris92]

Can I propose that in the future we call the "alt" text by its true name, title? Does this drive anyone else crazy?

yeah i realized that a while back, and started referring to it as title text in posts and threads.

btw, so the ants dont sense a presense of humans?

[theropissed]

The ants also received a strong pheromone scent one day, very short trail, they labeled it the "wow scent"...........and thats all i got. i had the joke constructed in my head, but then i saw boobies.

[ShemTealeaf]

The alt text reminds me of the opening of Snow Crash.

[msimswil]

Don't they wonder what keeps dropping food and stepping on them?

Many of us call it "God".

I like the comic, although don't necessarily agree with the implication that ant colonies (prior to this one) are not sentient. I'm not saying they are or aren't; just that we have no way of knowing for sure because we cannot communicate meaningfully with ants (yes... that's the whole point of the comic, in a sense).

I'm also reminded of the Flatland construct. Many here will already be familiar with it. I find it fascinating, and a good parable to use when explaining higher-dimensional universes. If you're from Flatland (or Krickitt ) then 'dropping food' is meaningless, because there's no up or down.

Google "Flatland" if you don't know what I'm on about. It's interesting. I can't post links yet without incurring Modwrath.

[suso]

Nice one Randall. That's a pretty good analogy. XKCD has been kinda dry lately, glad to see one with some meaning. Or at least meaning to me.

[suso]

The alt text reminds me of the opening of Snow Crash.

It it were Snow Crash, there would have been 20 paragraphs of alt text explaining exactly what the floor tiles looked like and why they matter.

[chridd]

Don't they wonder what keeps dropping food and stepping on them? >_>

Perhaps they think it's unintelligent life?

I always thought it was an Alt text, because it displays like it.

On my browser, at least, alt text doesn't display as a tooltip.

[foodeater184]

It's no longer them searching for us, it's us searching for them. Good comic

[Brooklynxman]

The alt text (it prefers to be called an alt american, but alas, Im html-ist) is so true, pizza delivery is our entry to the pantheon of great galactic civilizations.

[wombattheory]

I feel the ant colony as a whole would be sentient, not the individual ants. Hofstadter suggests we simply need an anteater ambassador.

[Crius]

Don't they wonder what keeps dropping food and stepping on them? >_>

Perhaps they think it's unintelligent life?

Maybe it's just like weather to them - something that just happens, not associated with any life or intelligence.

[westrim]

I like the comic, although don't necessarily agree with the implication that ant colonies (prior to this one) are not sentient. I'm not saying they are or aren't; just that we have no way of knowing for sure because we cannot communicate meaningfully with ants (yes... that's the whole point of the comic, in a sense).

Actually we do have a way, namely size. They just aren't big enough to have brains that can develop sapience (which is intelligence) or sentience (which is consciousness).

[dennisw]

The point of the comic has everything to do with what "wavelength" they are performing their search on. In their case it's "pheromones" and they miss us because we are communicating on "footsteps" and "dropped food". It's not that they aren't aware of these occurrences - it's that they don't associate them with intelligence. It could be that we are also performing SETI on the wrong "wavelength".

[Eternal Density]

This comic makes a good point. In our case, we are looking for intelligence out in space, and are missing the signs of it that are a lot closer than the floor tiles. What's the point of looking for signs of intelligence in space static when we don't acknowledge in in our own DNA.
(Disclaimer: I do not believe in the existence of 'life on other planets'.)

[edit]Oh, and I should mention that I think this is the most decent xkcd we've had in a while.

[Quicksilver]

Woah, nice reference to delivering pizzas. That's my job, don't I feel special

[Daggoth]

They are sentient AND aware of us. They are simply plotting silently and patiently waiting for the right moment to attack

[BatmanAoD]

Awesome comic! It's always sort of bugged me that we seem to assume that if intelligent life exists elsewhere, it's going to be trying to contact us in exactly the same ways as we're trying to contact it.

Not to mention that the Pioneer Plaque should have been designed to be decipherable by a two-year-old, but to be honest if we discovered it and didn't know what it was, it would probably take our best code-breakers to even figure out half of what's going on in that stupid picture. (Okay, the solar system picture is pretty obvious, but what do the symbols above and below the planets represent?)

[Cynical Idealist]

I always thought it was an Alt text, because it displays like it. I only just checked the source code now, and it is indeed 'Title' text. But it's not a title! The text doesn't read 'The Search', therefore it is not a title.

Hi joee.

Alt text doesn't display on mouseover.

Well, not in any decent browser. Even IE has stopped improperly displaying alt-text with a tooltip.

[cipher]

Their universe shows obvious signs of being shaped by consciousness, and they do not have an explanation of how it was shaped, except by consciousness. Our universe, not so apparent.

[Storm]

After enjoying this comic and title text, I proceeded to go check up the NASA site for the Kepler mission which I had yet to visit. http://kepler.nasa.gov/ You'd think that with NASA's budget they could afford to make a nicer website. This is official right?

[westrim]

This comic makes a good point. In our case, we are looking for intelligence out in space, and are missing the signs of it that are a lot closer than the floor tiles. What's the point of looking for signs of intelligence in space static when we don't acknowledge it in our own DNA.
(Disclaimer: I do not believe in the existence of 'life on other planets'.)

[edit]Oh, and I should mention that I think this is the most decent xkcd we've had in a while.

What do you mean our DNA? And why don't you- oh. OH. Well, I probably shouldn't be touching this with 3 meter pole, being an agnostic and all, but I feel I have to ask; If we were designed so intelligently, why does our plumbing suck? And wisdom teeth. And- no, I'm going to stop now.

[BeskarKomrk]

Good one. Nice to see a new comic that really has some meaning to it. This one didn't make me laugh so much as make me go "huh". But that isn't a bad thing.

[Istaro]

(Disclaimer: I do not believe in the existence of 'life on other planets'.)

Wow! That's a pretty enormous thing to say. So you're thinking that of all the <insert number too large for either of us to comprehend> planets in the universe besides ours, not a single one has any self-replicating, changing patterns of matter? I salute your boldness, if not your logic.

Superficially unrelated, but this kinda reminds me of the people who say "computers will never be able to do X anywhere close to well as humans". I generally get the feeling they don't really understand how long "never" actually is.

[Simplex]

Awesome comic, love it, way to go on the paradigm shift for peoples points of perspective.

I feel the ant colony as a whole would be sentient, not the individual ants. Hofstadter suggests we simply need an anteater ambassador.

I really should read G.E.B again, it's been a while. Too many other non fiction books i want to read, not enough hours in the day

[FitzNighteyes]

Kepler mission is at the top of Google Hot Trends right now. http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends

Way to top the charts again.

[Qwert]

On the whole alt/title thing:

• The alt attribute is to be used as the text that displays if the image doesn't load, can't be displayed, or if images are disabled. For example, the alt text for this comic is 'The Search'.
• The title attribute is used to display a tooltip over the image when you hover over it. The 'alt' text in xkcd comics is a perfect example of what the title attribute is for.

IE 6 incorrectly displayed the alt text as a tooltip, leading web designers to use it incorrectly, until the title attribute became widely supported.


And on topic: wasn't there some theory that basically stated that the window for us to receive radio communications from another civilization is really narrow because radio will be replaced by some other form of communication, like lasers?

[LTK]

Comic was funny, but the mouseover text was lost on me. I guess ant colonies as a whole (or maybe just the queen) can be considered intelligent, or maybe even sentient, but they have a limited sensory range. I'm speculating here that an individual can only perceive that which enables him to function in the colony, such as pheromones, food, and enemies. All three have a smell, so most ants are blind, too.

[Pseudonym]

Awesome comic! It's always sort of bugged me that we seem to assume that if intelligent life exists elsewhere, it's going to be trying to contact us in exactly the same ways as we're trying to contact it.

No, we're not assuming they're trying to contact us at all, which is why this comic annoys me so much, as well as the previous one like it. Quite frankly, Randall is being a bit of an idiot here. We are not looking for 'pheromones', we are looking for evidence of widespread, controlled usage on a planet of one of the fundamental forces of nature, which is useful for a great many things and doesn't really have any good substitutes in most of those areas. Reality is not bad science fiction. You cannot have instantaneous global communication...but with smoke signals.

It is not at all unreasonable to assume that any "sufficiently technologically advanced" society is going to be indiscriminately spewing a decent bit of electromagnetic radiation into space. You could reasonably point out that there's probably plenty of intelligent species which haven't gotten or won't get far enough technologically to result in such a sign, but we've got to search for something. We can't just tell our telescopes 'find me the closest civilization' and have it work like magic. You could also complain that we might be looking in the wrong wavelengths, which is a far more sensible complaint. But people dismissing the basic idea of these searches are being 'open-minded' about advanced alien civilizations the way homoepathy advocates are 'open-minded' about medicine; by largely ignoring most of what we know about the universe.

Not to mention that the Pioneer Plaque should have been designed to be decipherable by a two-year-old, but to be honest if we discovered it and didn't know what it was, it would probably take our best code-breakers to even figure out half of what's going on in that stupid picture. (Okay, the solar system picture is pretty obvious, but what do the symbols above and below the planets represent?)

You really don't seem to have put any significant amount of thought into this, unlike the people who made the plaque. Sure, they could make it decipherable by a two-year-old, but then it'd only be so by means of things specific to human cultures and humanity as a whole. It's designed so that any society that has sufficient knowledge of certain parts of physics and astronomy can figure it out eventually. It's not a message from scientists to two-year-olds, it's a message from scientists to scientists, using parts of the universe itself to convey concepts. As for what it's saying, as usual, Wikipedia has a helpful article on the subject.