0513: "Friends"

[la fée verte]

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting, but I feel like maybe a few people are missing the point of this one slightly...

Seems to me that this comic is saying exactly the same thing, only more bluntly.

[williamager]

Williamager kind of said what I was thinking. How much do you lose with just a close friendship compared to a romance (besides the obvious)? You have companionship, affection, and so on. You have to decide whether the things that go with a relationship mean that much to you.

Exactly. I really do enjoy being friends with her. And yet if I were in a relationship with her, and had to be with her more, we almost certainly would drive each other away. She probably wouldn't be able to cope with my demands for propriety and elegance, and I would end up trying to pull her away from a number of things she liked, or go to them awkwardly. And in addition, my family would slaughter her, and I'm very closely connected to them---during the one time my family met her, they essentially did that immediately afterwards, criticizing her shyness, lack of conversation, unflattering attire and appearance, and so on.

Seriously, being rejected by a good friend doesn't mean "everything is ruined forever" with that person. Try to trust me.

I think the fear, in many cases, can be less about immediate rejection and more about failure after a short while. If I had asked her, it's quite possible, and perhaps even probable, that she would have accepted; I have a number of major advantages over other prospectives suitors in most cases that could allow me to drive others away. If we had broken up over our differences, however, I imagine that it would be difficult for us to see each other in as amicable a way, and that's probably what would have happened.

Also, now that I'm dating her, I realize in each of those past relationships, I was settling a bit. Sure, they were fun to be around and attractive, and occasionally might be interested in a video game or something, but me and my girlfriend just... fit.

This is important. It's amazing how one can suddenly realize that, in past affections, one was settling for something that wasn't even close to a good fit without even noticing, and how different it is to go from talking with someone where one notices one's similarities with her, and conversing with someone where one notices, after a few hours of talking that despite enjoying the conversation immensely, it mostly consists of two people repeating the same things and agreeing, because there are fewer similarities than differences.

[Storm]

This is one of those "Get out of my head Randall" comics. Reminds me of best friend and I..well before we got our respective partners. I still love her as much I always have but in a different light. It also reminds me of another one of my close girlfriends, things can work out differently and positively.

This comic also reminded me of a slightly different take on the same theme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrnK-qPARYI

I hate the idea of the ladder(s) in general, as someone said before I see no sources cited.

[Xiroth]

Ah, for fucks...
I was thinking that this comic would be a good way of literally drawing a picture for my friends who do this, but even when it's spelled out plain as day as to why not to do this, we still have people in the thread who think it's a good idea. WTF.

OK, for all those people who are saying 'Hey, that guy's just like me! Aren't we grand?' Yeah...no. I hate to break it to you, but it's entirely possible that you've missed the point of the comic. This kind of 'make-friends-with-crush' tactic not only fails every single time, but is also a seriously fucking creepy way to act. Why? Because you're being dishonest about the basis of the friendship. You're not being nice to her because she's a friend, you're being nice to her because you want something from her - a relationship/sex. It's exactly the same as say, if you were rich, people being friends with you just because they want your money. That's not a basis for real friendship, and when she realises/finds out what's going on, she'll have every right to hate your guts for lying about it, particularly if you try to take advantage of emotional weakness (you know why she's showing you that weakness? Because she trusts you not to take advantage of it). This kind of shit really is about as much of a jerk as you could possibly be - far more hurtful than any messy breakup or strained romantic relationship. That's right - out of all the jerks you've complained about, you're worse than just about every one of them. Congrats.

Oh, and for the record, the gender-reversed version is no better. I had a friend a few years back who was seriously messed up when his best friend did a similar thing to him. It's a shitty thing to do, no matter the circumstances.

[thebandit]

Haha, a Nice Guy (TM) comic.

[Someursault]

I like Randall when he's harsh. This sort of teenagerism is a pretty easy target, but it's still good.

I notice this old strip made a few people edgy as well, which only confirms that it's on point:

[neurosci_queen]

He might be a jerk, but he does have hair...

I had a friend once who told me that she fantasised about all of her friends. She was a little taken aback, I think, when my only reaction was "Oh? How was I?"
She declined to answer, though, damnit.

Best response EVAR. I do tend to get crushes on my friends, but they never like me back. Instead I just set them up with my OTHER best friends. WHEEEEEE relationships are fun (not).

[neurosci_queen]

Dude. Randall's been reading Reddit too much. Sure, we've all heard of the Internet Nice Guy, but in my experience if you're going to develop a crush on a friend they generally start out as a genuine friend rather than a repressed crush.

Relationships are like stem cells. You have to direct them towards being what you want, or they become something else entirely.

I dunno, it's happened to me once or twice (well really just the once, but I digress) where I meet a guy, start crushing on him, and spend the next year and a half trying to get him to like me. It almost worked...

>.>

<.<

[jlintern]

My favorite part has to be the bottles they're holding on the couch.

[Mr Gnat]

My life is even more awkward than that though. I'm best friends with a girl, and I've told her that I'm totally into her. So at least I'm not being dishonest... I told her my feelings on the matter. It's just funny because she doesn't reject me, yet we don't ever become an "item" (This is probably classic "let you down easy"). Everyone is under the assumption that we're dating... but I just tell them that I love the friend zone (It's better than the nothing at all zone). I find it hilarious that we're soulmates- but who knows where our hearts will eventually wind up. I do think that she's afraid that if we become more than friends, our chemistry would suffer from it. Do girls that are good friends become bad girlfriends? I'm so confused now hehe. If things were simple, I'd be extremely bored.

Wow... I sound like a complete jerk still. I honestly don't know why I even typed all of that. Oh well. I suppose I can join the club.

[pyroman]

first the obligatory Randall get out of my head!

now thats thats out of the way there is this one girl who i have been friends with for about 4 years now but got really close ironically enough when she left for college. While i would feel kind of guilty calling her my best friend period she is definitely at the very least in a 3 way tie for first. For the longest time i considered her to be like a said a very close friend but someone i would never be able to date. but for some reason one day i really thought about why that was realizing that i would love to date her. Over summer break we spent ridiculous amounts of time together and on several occasions staying up just talking literally till the sun came up. Anyways i was too afraid to actually ask her out. I was too afraid that i would damage what we had. Our friendship was too important for me to risk it. Plus there was this other guy who i felt she liked more and was far more practical in that they went to the same school where as i was an hour a half away assuming i had my car up at school with me. Eventually though i did sort of half heartedly ask her out to which she said no and i didn't say another word about it till several months later. Anyways to make a long story short she did end up dating that other guy as i encouraged her to do because i thought it would be what was best for her. Its odd though. There are very few people in the world who i can say "I love you" to and i refuse to say it unless i mean it. She was one of those people though. She is just a great person and even though i am happy for her i really wish i had tried harder. I cant help to think what things could have been like if I had. Sadly i don't think i will ever get the chance to find out. But I have decided if i ever get another chance i am going to go for it. I let her slip away before. I'm not going to let it happen again without an honest effort.

[imnotnickvito]

The fora are not for advertising.

Especially not on your first post.

And especially not for douchetastic "Seduction method" tripe.

Banned

[Vettle]

Dammit. The girl I like reads xkcd and now it's all going to become obvious to her. Way to spell it out - thanks Randall

[stormoftara]

Gee Willikers

That guy who was my best friend for three years, who was always there for me, especially when I had a bad breakup, who later dated me.

THIS WAS HIS PLAN.

I miss his friendship.

[cr08]

Also, people tend to think that if they declare their hopeful intentions, that the friendship is lost. Not necessarily true. The way its brought up and the way the aftermath is handled makes all the difference. Not saying that every situation can end up well, but you're not going to lose the good friend just for saying 'hey, could a relationship work here? I'm interested in you in that vein, I've cared about you a lot for a long time. No? Alright, then I'll do my best to move that interest elsewhere so it doesn't make our friendship too wierd.'

Seriously, being rejected by a good friend doesn't mean "everything is ruined forever" with that person. Try to trust me.

I had to make a post here just as a 'me too'. In the moments leading up to this it may seem like a case of 'don't say and stay friends or do say and have a 50/50 of being eternal enemies or legitimately interested in each other.' but in all honesty this is far from the case. As Waffles stated, it just depends on how it's handled and even how mature both parties are with it.

I ran into this situation once upon a time and mulling it over after the fact, it was far from subtle and a bit haphazard at that. In fact shortly after I was stumbling over myself in apologies in an attempt to actually try and retract it all. Needless to say it ended up with mutual understanding of the events conspiring to that moment and we both agreed to stay friends regardless. And even another friend of mine whom I confided this crush in up to that point gave me somewhat of a warning beforehand tat it probably wasn't going to end the way I hoped. Fast forward almost 3 years: We are still really close friends and thinking back on it, I wouldn't have it any differently. It's all honestly worked out for the best. And the funny part is that being a person who normally gets internally embarrassed on old subtle memories, said event has never bothered me whenever it comes to mind.

All in all it really depends on how well said situation is handled as Waffles stated and the maturity of both parties involved.

[williamager]

The "friends" scenario is particularly painful to us nerds, we who seldom deal with people, much less those of the opposite sex. And when we nerds reflect on our situation to rectify this state of affairs, the best we can come up with is something like Ladder Theory, which has the effect of justifying and intensifying our self-pity while doing nothing to help us attract women.

Now the good news....

Attracting women is learnable, teachable, practicable, perfectible skill.
Just PLEASE, for the love of God, DON'T ask an attractive girl to teach you how to attract women. It's not their thing. Look for advice from guys who actually do it day in, day out.

There's a huge difference between attracting women and starting a relationship with a particular person. I've been trained from birth to be effective in dealing with people, and I do deal with people all the time; it's one of my favourite things to do. I've had ladies try to edge each other out of conversation in order to talk to me, while their escorts look on powerlessly. There was once a young lady who was so infatuated with me that I ended up having to stop going anywhere where I might see her as saying no continually became too annoying and awkward (and she was not unattractive); seeing me years later, when she had a boyfriend with her, she was quite willing to break up with him right then, and went about leaving him with others to follow me. I had some random guy stalk me for a while, until I had to obliterate his social standing in order to stop him. And yet, for the one person whom I admired so much, I couldn't manage to start any relationship with her beyond friendship, as I watched her go from boyfriend to boyfriend, and remained her close friend. It's not just people who are socially uncomfortable or inexperienced who get into situations like this.

[Quixotess]

Who are you, William Prince of England?

[Encarnacion]

This is basically the story of my semester.

Just a semester? I've kind of been that girl in this comic since before I knew what the word "semester" meant and still it resonates with me now that I no longer measure my life in the things. You can find out who the friend is, too. Just read the Revelation of St. John on Patmos. Only for him, this plan will absolutely succeed, and I am really looking forward to it.

[reaver121]

I agree that being a 'nice guy' and abusing an emotional vulnerable moment only to have sex with the girl is being a total jerk-ass but if it is for a relationship I am not entirely sure. I always figured that girlfriend = very good friend you fall in love with. It seems logical to first to get to know a girl as a friend, then ask her out if you develop feelings for her and move into a relationship. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to good friends (if possible off course). If you don't want to be her friend, how can you expect to be her boyfriend ?

Reading the reactions in this thread & the fact that I have absolutely have no experience whatsoever with women relationship-wise, it seems that the above view is wrong somewhere. Care to explain ?

[Pizzashark]

He's a Level 12 Paladin with 18 Charisma and 79 hitpoints!

EDIT:

I agree that being a 'nice guy' and abusing an emotional vulnerable moment only to have sex with the girl is being a total jerk-ass but if it is for a relationship I am not entirely sure. I always figured that girlfriend = very good friend you fall in love with. It seems logical to first to get to know a girl as a friend, then ask her out if you develop feelings for her and move into a relationship. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to good friends (if possible off course). If you don't want to be her friend, how can you expect to be her boyfriend ?

Reading the reactions in this thread & the fact that I have absolutely have no experience whatsoever with women relationship-wise, it seems that the above view is wrong somewhere. Care to explain ?

My limited experience is that a natural progression from friend to lover is like every medicine ever advertised: not for everyone and extremely fucking dangerous for some.

I guess it depends on the people. Some girls probably prefer you take it slow. Some probably prefer you just bend her backwards over the desk in the back office and friends can come later.

I know that probably doesn't help, but emotions and logic rarely mix.

[cyberblade]

I'm sitting here trying to figure out which is worse-the guy who goes into a relationship as a friend-or the one that started as the jerk then stayed as the friend...

Given my current situation I'd have to say the latter...

(sigh)

[vodka.cobra]

Gee Willikers

That guy who was my best friend for three years, who was always there for me, especially when I had a bad breakup, who later dated me.

THIS WAS HIS PLAN.

I miss his friendship.

Did he kill himself?

[tarrantkwok]

First, GET OUT OF MY HAD RANDALL. LIKE NOW.
Secondly, I had to register to post in the fora for this comic because it is just so close to home.

He's a Level 12 Paladin with 18 Charisma and 79 hitpoints!

EDIT:

I agree that being a 'nice guy' and abusing an emotional vulnerable moment only to have sex with the girl is being a total jerk-ass but if it is for a relationship I am not entirely sure. I always figured that girlfriend = very good friend you fall in love with. It seems logical to first to get to know a girl as a friend, then ask her out if you develop feelings for her and move into a relationship. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to good friends (if possible off course). If you don't want to be her friend, how can you expect to be her boyfriend ?

Reading the reactions in this thread & the fact that I have absolutely have no experience whatsoever with women relationship-wise, it seems that the above view is wrong somewhere. Care to explain ?

My limited experience is that a natural progression from friend to lover is like every medicine ever advertised: not for everyone and extremely fucking dangerous for some.

I guess it depends on the people. Some girls probably prefer you take it slow. Some probably prefer you just bend her backwards over the desk in the back office and friends can come later.

I know that probably doesn't help, but emotions and logic rarely mix.

I have to agree with Some Asshole here - love is a very very personalised thing. Might work for some, might not work for others.

And I would have thought he'd be able to minmax to 20 by then... Jerks would crit him on an 18 perhaps?

[The_Beige_Volvo]

eek. I have done this accidentally a couple of times, except certainly not with the machiavellian overtones of our protagonist - it's just that I've really always liked sweet, warm, lovely kind of girls and I'm not so alpha so sometimes I just kinda got sucked into a situation where you're both accidentally platonic yet totally magnetised to each other and then... gah. No evil plans though and in the past few years I have developed an attitude of "you only have to get it right once, so she's worth the risk." So when you meet someone amazing (hazelnut eyes optional) then try for some romance and see what happens

[Pizzashark]

Just something else to add.

Don't confuse desire to fuck her brains out and then back in over the previously mentioned desk in the back office with feelings. Lust and love are different things. While they're linked in several ways, it's important to recognize one from the other. Don't go around loving her because you wanna fuck her; do it the other way around if you're looking for a relationship. And hell, if you just wanna get some from someone you like and is pretty sure is clean, tell her! Maybe that's what she wants too

EDIT (again...):

I can't seem to put everything down nice and neat while working at the same time, but also be aware of YOUR needs, too. If you need a friends-to-lovers thing (I do), then don't try to do business with a chick that needs the dude to - you guessed it - bend her sideways over that desk in the back office. Doesn't mean you can't be friends, and doesn't mean that it might not work out (what an awkward expression) years down the road. Just be aware of both her needs AND your needs.

[Platypodes]

Really, the whole problem with the "friends with detriments" approach is that it's dishonest. I find it works better to just honestly, straightforwardly say to someone "I'm attracted to you, what do you say?" Then if they say "no thanks" for whatever reason, pursuing an honest friendship is still possible. On the other hand, if they say "yes", you can actually pursue a romantic relationship without any deceit, and one that can actually work out well because it's an honest relationship.

Yes, occasionally, two people who have been friends for a long time can develop romantic feelings for each other, but this only works if they're...wait for it...HONEST with each other.

Hear, hear!

I think this is just the point that Randall was going for in his last panel... The sweet, sensitive "friend" guy is, because of his dishonesty and manipulation, just as disrespectful and just as bad a potential boyfriend as is the obvious "jerk."

Edit:

I agree that being a 'nice guy' and abusing an emotional vulnerable moment only to have sex with the girl is being a total jerk-ass but if it is for a relationship I am not entirely sure. I always figured that girlfriend = very good friend you fall in love with. It seems logical to first to get to know a girl as a friend, then ask her out if you develop feelings for her and move into a relationship. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to good friends (if possible off course). If you don't want to be her friend, how can you expect to be her boyfriend ?

Reading the reactions in this thread & the fact that I have absolutely have no experience whatsoever with women relationship-wise, it seems that the above view is wrong somewhere. Care to explain ?

There's a big difference between what you describe and the comic: the guy in the comic has already developed feelings for her but isn't asking her out. He's being dishonest, pretending he wants to be "just friends" when really he wants to date her and is too chicken to say so.

You described an honest progression from real friendship to romance. That's great when it happens that way. If you're the sort of person who tends to get to know women as friends first before knowing whether he wants to date them, cool; go with that. The important thing is to be honest about what your intentions toward someone are.

[cr08]

I agree that being a 'nice guy' and abusing an emotional vulnerable moment only to have sex with the girl is being a total jerk-ass but if it is for a relationship I am not entirely sure. I always figured that girlfriend = very good friend you fall in love with. It seems logical to first to get to know a girl as a friend, then ask her out if you develop feelings for her and move into a relationship. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to good friends (if possible off course). If you don't want to be her friend, how can you expect to be her boyfriend ?

Reading the reactions in this thread & the fact that I have absolutely have no experience whatsoever with women relationship-wise, it seems that the above view is wrong somewhere. Care to explain ?

I don't believe that viewpoint is wrong, in fact I believe it to be absolutely correct at least from a viewpoint of a person thinking clearly and logically and not with their crotch. To quote a friend of mine: 'There is no such thing as 'love at first sight'. It's simply a euphemism for lust.'

To put simply, your viewpoint should really be the defacto one for society in general but rarely ever is. Starting off as a friend actually gives you time to understand and get a feel for each others personalities, likes, stuff like that. So if it ever did develop into a relationship, it would be a natural progression and there'd be less opportunity for butting of heads. But if you end up jumping in head first in a fit of lust, I guarantee your personalities are going to clash and create major problems between you. At least as friends, it's easier to reconcile these differences without totally risking killing off the friendship.

Then again, that's just my observation, albeit a logical one.

edit: And as a 'here here!' to a previous poster: There's a HUGE difference between outright lust and love. And if you can't gather that difference in your head, you need to educate yourself imnsho.

[Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel]

Was anyone else expecting the alt text to say "or I could just ask your mum out" or something to that effect?

[goddessxx]

"only the wistfulness in your gaze and the tiny pause before you say 'i love you' will hint that this wasn't the ending you'd hoped for"

The story of my life. I miss him as a friend.

[lupp]

What the "Gee Willikers that guy is creepy" people are missing is that in real life he doesn't have the whole plan. It's just like girls don't actually say "I'm going to date this jerk". Only in this comic, and that's what's funny about it.

Actually, it's more "I like this girl. I'll be nice to her and let her get to know me. Maybe she will like me." The rest of the story just follows. He isn't trying to trap her in a relationship where she is not happy. He never intended to be dishonest. He just doesn't know how to show his interest in the right way.

[tarrantkwok]

What the "Gee Willikers that guy is creepy" people are missing is that in real life he doesn't have the whole plan. It's just like girls don't actually say "I'm going to date this jerk". Only in this comic, and that's what's funny about it.

Actually, it's more "I like this girl. I'll be nice to her and let her get to know me. Maybe she will like me." The rest of the story just follows. He isn't trying to trap her in a relationship where she is not happy. He never intended to be dishonest. He just doesn't know how to show his interest in the right way.

A very valid point (in both paragraphs).

[cr08]

What the "Gee Willikers that guy is creepy" people are missing is that in real life he doesn't have the whole plan. It's just like girls don't actually say "I'm going to date this jerk". Only in this comic, and that's what's funny about it.

Actually, it's more "I like this girl. I'll be nice to her and let her get to know me. Maybe she will like me." The rest of the story just follows. He isn't trying to trap her in a relationship where she is not happy. He never intended to be dishonest. He just doesn't know how to show his interest in the right way.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

In all reality, the creepy guys are the 'jerk' in the comic who put on the faux nice guy facade in order to garner attention from their objects of desire.

[Domovoi]

'll never forget one day we were standing there and she had her phone in her back pocket, all of sudden it started vibrating and she goes, "Ohh, I'm vibrating," and after checking the message she looks at me and kind of winks saying, "But I don't need a vibrator, I've got a boyfriend."

Obviously not a made up story at all. Especially because of the "we were standing there" part, which proves that this happened in a real, actual situation.

[mashakosha]

This comic is pretty much the story of my life. I'm talking word for word here. Sadly, the girl in question doesn't think we'll ever be more than friends. Need to work on the making her depend on me bit...

[Xiroth]

Sorry guys, that the whole thing is not pre-planned in no way makes it better, I'm afraid. If you get into a serious, long-term friendship because you want to get into a girl's pants, you're an arsehole. No ifs, no buts.

In all reality, the creepy guys are the 'jerk' in the comic who put on the faux nice guy facade in order to garner attention from their objects of desire.

Hehehe, it's funny because you're full of shit. Everyone puts their best foot forward when they're looking to date someone - you claim that's jerkish behaviour, then hey, you've just labelled pretty much the entire species, male or female, a jerk. What's more important is that you're honest about your intentions, and these 'jerks', universally, are.

[goddessxx]

I'm in shock... and awe.

"only the wistfulness in your gaze and the tiny pause before you say 'i love you' will hint that this wasn't the ending you'd hoped for" - WOW. Just... wow... couldn't have put it better myself.

Everything in this comic happened to me last year (even the little scene on the couch...). Reading it felt like reading a narrative of my life. I dated this guy for about six months... we still talk now.

Maybe if this happened in 20 years, he would've been Mr. Right. I kept trying to make more out of that relationship, but I guess a FWD (friends with detriments) was all it was...

[Platypodes]

'll never forget one day we were standing there and she had her phone in her back pocket, all of sudden it started vibrating and she goes, "Ohh, I'm vibrating," and after checking the message she looks at me and kind of winks saying, "But I don't need a vibrator, I've got a boyfriend."

Obviously not a made up story at all. Especially because of the "we were standing there" part, which proves that this happened in a real, actual situation.

Hey, if it were a made-up story it would be more like, "I"ll never forget one day we were standing there and all of a sudden she puts her hand on my cock, which is 10 inches by the way, and then her twin sister who looks just like her except with bigger breasts showed up...."

[reaver121]

Just something else to add.
I can't seem to put everything down nice and neat while working at the same time, but also be aware of YOUR needs, too. If you need a friends-to-lovers thing (I do), then don't try to do business with a chick that needs the dude to - you guessed it - bend her sideways over that desk in the back office. Doesn't mean you can't be friends, and doesn't mean that it might not work out (what an awkward expression) years down the road. Just be aware of both her needs AND your needs.

I'm the same. I have nothing against people who jump into a relationship 10 seconds after they meet the girl but it seems rather illogical and feels wrong to me somehow. That's also the reason I always found 'Romeo & Juliet' a bit hypocritical. It wants to portray true love but Romeo falls in love with Juliet by just seeing her across the ballroom (in the version I saw anyway). For all he knows, she could be a raving psychopath.

I agree that being a 'nice guy' and abusing an emotional vulnerable moment only to have sex with the girl is being a total jerk-ass but if it is for a relationship I am not entirely sure. I always figured that girlfriend = very good friend you fall in love with. It seems logical to first to get to know a girl as a friend, then ask her out if you develop feelings for her and move into a relationship. If it doesn't work out, you can go back to good friends (if possible off course). If you don't want to be her friend, how can you expect to be her boyfriend ?

Reading the reactions in this thread & the fact that I have absolutely have no experience whatsoever with women relationship-wise, it seems that the above view is wrong somewhere. Care to explain ?

I don't believe that viewpoint is wrong, in fact I believe it to be absolutely correct at least from a viewpoint of a person thinking clearly and logically and not with their crotch. To quote a friend of mine: 'There is no such thing as 'love at first sight'. It's simply a euphemism for lust.'

To put simply, your viewpoint should really be the defacto one for society in general but rarely ever is. Starting off as a friend actually gives you time to understand and get a feel for each others personalities, likes, stuff like that. So if it ever did develop into a relationship, it would be a natural progression and there'd be less opportunity for butting of heads. But if you end up jumping in head first in a fit of lust, I guarantee your personalities are going to clash and create major problems between you. At least as friends, it's easier to reconcile these differences without totally risking killing off the friendship.

Then again, that's just my observation, albeit a logical one.

edit: And as a 'here here!' to a previous poster: There's a HUGE difference between outright lust and love. And if you can't gather that difference in your head, you need to educate yourself imnsho.

I agree completely. One of main reasons I prefer starting as a friend is to avoid clashing personalities & emotions. I am a head-over-heart person and can't handle emotional situations all that well (although I got a bit better compared to my teenager years).

[Quixotess]

That's also the reason I always found 'Romeo & Juliet' a bit hypocritical. It wants to portray true love but Romeo falls in love with Juliet by just seeing her across the ballroom (in the version I saw anyway). For all he knows, she could be a raving psychopath.

Give Shakespeare a little more credit than that. He knew exactly what he was doing. Their love was absolutely supposed to be flimsy (or Romeo's certainly was.) If it hadn't been omgforbidden! it probably wouldn't have come to anything.

[Platypodes]

I'm the same. I have nothing against people who jump into a relationship 10 seconds after they meet the girl but it seems rather illogical and feels wrong to me somehow. That's also the reason I always found 'Romeo & Juliet' a bit hypocritical. It wants to portray true love but Romeo falls in love with Juliet by just seeing her across the ballroom (in the version I saw anyway). For all he knows, she could be a raving psychopath.

Y'know, I've never been altogether convinced that the point of Romeo and Juliet was to "portray true love," although people so often speak of it that way. It struck me more as being about how, when people carry on senseless feuds and perpetuate hatred, life sucks and nice people die. The two main characters struck me more as two kids caught up in a first crush.

Edit: Duh, I'm so used to getting irrelevant ninja notifications that I've stopped reading them, and I should've read this one. Yeah, what Quixotess said--although it's fair to mention that many, many people don't "give Shakespeare a little more credit than that"; I've heard Romeo and Juliet held up as examples of true, perfect lovers more times than I can count.