0389: "Keeping Time"

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zahlman
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby zahlman » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:38 pm UTC

fjman wrote:As a drummer that played with polyrhythmic stuff in my free time, you're never gonna trip me up! Never gonna bring me down, never gonna play around and injure me.


Fixed >:)

cstar wrote:In my HS Marching band we did some stuff occasionally in 7/8 and maybe 7/5 or something? On the one 7/8 measure (since there weren't two) that was just a one measure halt which was intended to be rather loud so the halt helped anyway. The director just composed the stuff that doubled up in the doubled up time (I think we had 14/10 for the 7/5 but I could be incorrect) to keep with a left foot start.

We played some pretty neat stuff my last two years of HS. We did ELP's Karn Evil 9, Roundabout by Yes, and then my senior year we did Don Ellis' Strawberry Soup, Rush's Distant Early Warning, and a piece called New Rhythmics which was allegedly written by the Cavi's staff but wasn't used in any of their shows. We got better responses with these pieces than the plain theme-shows all the other bands in our area did.


Surely not 7/5 or 14/10. The denominator is always a power of two.
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby pyrocrickett » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:43 pm UTC

LittleChrist wrote:[...] I so would have my band march to this song if I could do it all over again.

I had nearly the same thought!

How awesome would it be for a band to Rickroll the crowd during a halftime show? Start playing something like "Flight of the Bumblebee" (which we did 8) ) but quickly make a jarring switch to "Never Gonna Give You Up"! It'd be one of the top 10 best Rickrolls ever (right behind this comic)!

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Robin S » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:48 pm UTC

zahlman wrote:The denominator is always a power of two.
Well, almost.

I particularly like that last paragraph of that section:

Wikipedia wrote:The term "irrational" is not being used here in its mathematical sense: an irrational number is one that cannot be written as a ratio of whole numbers, which all these signatures obviously are. Nevertheless, the term appears to be established now, although at least one such piece with a truly irrational signature already exists: one of Conlon Nancarrow's "Studies for Player Piano" contains a canon where one part is augmented in the ratio √42:1
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Grumpy Code Monkey » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:51 pm UTC

I haven't marched in 25 years, and damned if that very thing doesn't happen to me to this day.

That panel is not funny.

stillbored
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby stillbored » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:51 pm UTC

khumbu wrote:SW: Completely understandable. I'm only obsessive over Cadets because my first show ever was the 05 finals (they were near where I live), and Cadets happened to win (and I really liked their show). Also, since Cadets is kind of the only World Class corps in the Northeast now (except Crusaders, but they practice mainly in Florida, wtf?!), I kind of have to like them, as they're the only World Class corps I'll probably end up being able to march (hopefully?).


You know, there's a lot of bad blood between the Cadets and many corps, at least in my experiences (Bluecoats 2003).

Actually, it seemed like most corps had alliances/disagreements with various other corps. I know we had a strong dislike for the Cadets (mainly just YEA), the Cavaliers, SCV and BAC.

Oh, and Magic of Orlando when they were still around...but no one gave them much credit that year.


And then we had corps we liked...Madison Scouts, BD (got a chance to hang out with their contra line after the San Antonio show, they got down on their knees and sang to our guard after retreat), etc., etc.

There was never a hatred (except in the case of BAC), and it seemed to be part of the territory.

Anyway, go! Try out for Cadets and enjoy the hell out of it! How many years you have left?

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Little Richie » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:56 pm UTC

Sartorius wrote:I squealed. I do this all the time!

Ah, band.


Exactly the same reaction. I love band =D

I would love to be the guy incharge of music in a large store.
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby khumbu » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:19 pm UTC

I have 2 years.... I started junior year of high school (when I got cut from my school's snare line; I had just started playing). I then spent the entire summer practicing about 8 hours a day, and managed to be good enough to make a snareline in corps that fall.

The corps I'm in now (Open Class, no big deal... btw, who else isn't sure the merging of Div. II and III was a good idea?) is full of BAC fans, mainly because a lot of our staff is BAC alumni. It kind of sucks, mainly because we're often reminded not to do certain things "because a certain maroon and gold corps looks silly doing them." I think the reason I like Cadets so much is that their shows are fast and tend towards the theatrical (well, at least in the 2000's). I ran a theatre company before I started marching, so it was basically the whole "storyline" of their 05 show that got me hooked.

I don't get the whole rivalry thing (except with other corps vs. Cadets...); the BAC guys are really nice, and Omar (who teaches their drumline) is THE MAN. I've never marched a show with any West Coast corps (my first year we didn't go to finals because we ran out of transportation money), but I'm sure they're just as awesome as all the corps over here.

Also, who else is betting that Bluecoats make top 3 this year?

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Echodork
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Echodork » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:29 pm UTC

For the last eleven years, I have consciously walked in such a way that I do NOT sync with the people I'm walking with. If I don't think about it, I sync.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby stillbored » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:31 pm UTC

khumbu wrote:I have 2 years.... I started junior year of high school (when I got cut from my school's snare line; I had just started playing). I then spent the entire summer practicing about 8 hours a day, and managed to be good enough to make a snareline in corps that fall.

The corps I'm in now (Open Class, no big deal... btw, who else isn't sure the merging of Div. II and III was a good idea?) is full of BAC fans, mainly because a lot of our staff is BAC alumni. It kind of sucks, mainly because we're often reminded not to do certain things "because a certain maroon and gold corps looks silly doing them." I think the reason I like Cadets so much is that their shows are fast and tend towards the theatrical (well, at least in the 2000's). I ran a theatre company before I started marching, so it was basically the whole "storyline" of their 05 show that got me hooked.

I don't get the whole rivalry thing (except with other corps vs. Cadets...); the BAC guys are really nice, and Omar (who teaches their drumline) is THE MAN. I've never marched a show with any West Coast corps (my first year we didn't go to finals because we ran out of transportation money), but I'm sure they're just as awesome as all the corps over here.

Also, who else is betting that Bluecoats make top 3 this year?


Cool, you have plenty of time left...that's good. Always remember that drum corps doesn't end at 21 (or 22)...just DCI.

The problem we had with BAC was their level of arrogance that year...or it may just have been a corps to corps thing.

The Cadets have always had good shows, but the main issue many people (or at least, many people that I've talked to) have is their director. Hopkins has done a lot to piss off drum corps enthusiasts.

As for the Bluecoats making top 3? For the sake of the corps, I hope not. Yes, making top 3 would be great for the corps. However, the situation within the corps has been slowly devolving since...well...'03 when the new director took over. I hear nothing but hatred of him from those that I marched with...which is something you just can't have in a corps. So yeah, I'm kinda mixed on that one, haha.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Workaphobia » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:48 pm UTC

With regards to the tool tip - wow, he knows us alright. I actually do stop for a moment when I change songs on my DAP, just to realign myself with the beat, leading on left. I guess eight years of marching band does that to you.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby photosinensis » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:04 pm UTC

Why do I enjoy being rickrolled? I'm not entirely sure. At least the meme wasn't embedding links to The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins. If you don't get through that video without shouting, "Mr. Spock! NOOOOOO!", there's probably something wrong with you.
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Ondore
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Ondore » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:22 pm UTC

I'm just impressed that he was able to find musical notation for Never Gonna Give You Up, quite frankly.

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jepleure
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby jepleure » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:41 pm UTC

Glad to know I'm not the only former band nerd still guilty of this. My buddy who intro'd me to this comic is totally going to make fun of me tonight, asking me if I do this. And sadly, after four years I STILL DO. :lol:
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby NoPance » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:42 pm UTC

aaron wrote:
adlaiff6 wrote:-1 for parallel octaves


haha yes.

one of the most well thought out rickrolls ever, and a completely true comic. probably one of my favorites.


Parallel octaves/perfects aren't really a huge concern anymore unless you're composing in a traditional, voice-leading style. I know I use them a lot in pit books, but still a nice catch for the music nerd in all of us. :P

I like DCI stuff, but WGI indoor is where it's at for me. Just drumline and pit, with lots of theatrical/dance elements and storytelling. A lot more audience connection and ability to push the envelope since it's a controlled environment (gym floor). Some seriously innovative stuff happening there, and it's filtering back out into DCI land more and more. There have been some great WGI shows in the past decade, but I always come back to these two by RCC:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GDXmulFsHQs - Manifest Destiny show in '05
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6nr7mm2ntw&feature=related - Do You Remember the First Time in '07

The snare feature with the physioballs in 07 is very cool.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby CrayolaTwo » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:45 pm UTC

Actually, my last two years in band have almost helped me stop this habit.

http://www.badgerband.com

I'm part of the Wisconsin Marching Band, and we NEVER roll step. As a result a) it's literally impossible to get off-step if you're doing it right, because it's so noticeable and b) you can't do it while walking to class. I do hum our music and walk in time to it way too often (just this morning, actually), but it's stopped being so jarring when I have to stop.

That being said, I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to quit this habit completely. And if it's a song that has a really good marching beat, I will shuffle-step so that I'm on the correct foot. Sad, but true.

I wish my instrument played in bass clef so that I could play that song now. Clarinets can go pretty low, but that's just ridiculous. Maybe I'll have my roommate trombone play it for me. :)

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Anoria » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:54 pm UTC

jdogmoney wrote:Oh, my.

I've never been owned by a webcomic before.

Ditto. Even "The Difference" didn't hit me this hard.

I was one of those strange kids who walked in step to music and with other people looong before I joined marching band. I know there are more of me out there, on my last day at band camp (yes, the one they actually based that band camp on) I was watching a concert and there was a little boy, couldn't have been more than 3, looked like couldn't have learned to walk more than a few months ago, holding his dad's hand and stomping in time to the music. I think it was a Sousa march.

After four years of marching band (and three since then), I still walk in time of course, but I tend to make an effort not to if it's a song I don't like, which encompasses most I hear in stores.

Re marching in weird times - my senior year of high school, our show was about a marching band progressing through a season. The very long, involved percussion feature was written to sound like a drum sectional, if all of our drummers had been as crazy and talented as their instructor. We marched in all sorts of times, through tempo changes, and my director gave up at one point and just had us running around in a "scatter drill" until the meter settled back down again.
Now that I think about it, it was absolute hell getting my section to match up their steps and notes correctly in some parts. Syncopation and marching are not a combination to be presented to freshmen... or sophomores... or Lindsey...
(Other fun parts of that show included a dance move almost completely ripped off the Cavaliers, and a sequence where we planted a fake judge on the field and then attacked her. Those were easier to get everyone to do right.)

Curse you all, I haven't had a nostalgia attack this bad since I first graduated. I'm going to go home and stroke my phallic uniform plume now.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Dobblesworth » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:55 pm UTC

Echodork wrote:For the last eleven years, I have consciously walked in such a way that I do NOT sync with the people I'm walking with. If I don't think about it, I sync.


That's not marching band or drill practise, that's humanity.

Just observe two random people walking down a street, talking to one another. Chances are they never were in a band, yet there's a 99% chance they will be walking at a similar tempo, probably with the same feet leading at the same time. It's subconsciously desired by the human brain for you to walk in synch with another person who you want to present yourself as being an 'ally' of, especially during conversation. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I'm sure this is something I've read and what is generally accepted. Walking at the same pace automatically kicks in, so the brain can handle social elements as a priority, I think.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Stickfodder » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:18 pm UTC

Oh thats not nice that really messes me up when i go shopping
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Robin S » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:07 pm UTC

Ondore wrote:I'm just impressed that he was able to find musical notation for Never Gonna Give You Up, quite frankly.
What makes you think he didn't work it out himself?
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby pyrocrickett » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:20 pm UTC

Robin S wrote:
Ondore wrote:I'm just impressed that he was able to find musical notation for Never Gonna Give You Up, quite frankly.
What makes you think he didn't work it out himself?

From the xkcd blag:
A big thanks to khmer for putting together the piano arrangement in today’s comic.

There ya go: he didn't find the notation nor did he work it out himself, it was done for him by khmer. :)

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:56 pm UTC

Whenever I'm walking with friends who weren't in Marching Band, they always look at me weirdly becasue I'll start walking in step with them, the worst is when the start off in step with each other, and then break step when I start walking in step with them, this has caused me to stumble a few times without even realizing what was going on.
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby lonelynocturnal » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:02 pm UTC

We don't have a marching band, but the basis for many simple and common rock drum beats is bass drum on one and three, and snare on two and four. I've played drums for five or six years now, so when I walk while listening to music, I tend to step with my right (bass drum) foot on one and three and my left foot (left hand hits the snare drum) on two and four.
So I would lead with my right. ;)

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Sly Si » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

zahlman wrote:Surely not 7/5 or 14/10. The denominator is always a power of two.

Not true. I've seen music with measures in 4/6 and 5/6--4 or 5 quarter note triplets to a measure. The transition is quarter equals quarter. That was in an extremely modern/abstract (and not in a good way) piece, though.

CrayolaTwo wrote:I'm part of the Wisconsin Marching Band, and we NEVER roll step. As a result a) it's literally impossible to get off-step if you're doing it right, because it's so noticeable and b) you can't do it while walking to class. I do hum our music and walk in time to it way too often (just this morning, actually), but it's stopped being so jarring when I have to stop.

The only things stopping you from marching a nice stop-at-the-top high step to class are (a) lack of endurance, and/or (b) being too afraid of looking weird. Of course, concern for the safety of others in crowded hallways might also play a part, which is totally excusable.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby RAPTORATTACK!!! » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:56 pm UTC

That was Randall? WHAT? DAMN YOU RANDALL! THAT BROKE MY NOSE!

not really. although if someone did this it totally would.

does this mean randall works in a grocery store?

also, getting the rickroll in there- pure, unadulterated win.
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Masuri » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:15 pm UTC

Random Rickroll tangent: A couple nights ago, my boyfriend and I were sitting in a restaurant discussing random stuff over dinner. The music changed to Never Gonna Give You Up and we looked at each other and both said, "Rickroll!" Awww, we were made for each other.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Stereo » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:24 pm UTC

Dobblesworth wrote:
Echodork wrote:For the last eleven years, I have consciously walked in such a way that I do NOT sync with the people I'm walking with. If I don't think about it, I sync.


That's not marching band or drill practise, that's humanity.

Just observe two random people walking down a street, talking to one another. Chances are they never were in a band, yet there's a 99% chance they will be walking at a similar tempo, probably with the same feet leading at the same time. It's subconsciously desired by the human brain for you to walk in synch with another person who you want to present yourself as being an 'ally' of, especially during conversation. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I'm sure this is something I've read and what is generally accepted. Walking at the same pace automatically kicks in, so the brain can handle social elements as a priority, I think.

I read a short story a while back, where right before tragedies, the people involved would begin to synchronise. Not just walking, but heartbeats and breathing too. It kind of creeped me out, and since then I consciously avoid walking in synch when I can.
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:43 pm UTC

Never been in a marching band, but every time there's music when I'm walking I sync up to it. I do sing, though, so there's some music involved there...

And apparently I'm not the only one who loaded up [insert notation software here... for me it's NoteWorthy] and used it to find out what the music was. :D
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby The Hyphenator » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:53 pm UTC

5theye wrote:oh man rick rolled, amazing

Shhh, don't spoil it!
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Pirate Jack » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:50 am UTC

Probably not the best song to march too. Way too slow/fast (depending on if you take the quarter or eighth).

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Hawkwings » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:10 am UTC

Don't know what's you're talking about there. You can march up to about 200 bpm or as slow as about 60.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby kriel » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:40 am UTC

To march in 5/4:
You take steps on 1,2,3,4,5,(and).

6 steps to 5 beats of music.

In a more DDR-y way of putting this

Code: Select all

1 L
+
2   R
+
3 L
+
4   R
+
5 L
+   R


Dunno if this has been answered before, reading 4 pages of forum isn't a good idea when you've got bits of python floating in your head.

EDIT: Or, not. Apparently my band was just insane. (Yes, we actually did an entire 5/4 song to this. Just about drove us nuts the first day, but somehow, on the second day most of us just kind of fell into the groove.)
Last edited by kriel on Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:48 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Megums » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:40 am UTC

Haha, I'm not even in marching band and this would happen to me. (Yes, I also walk/run in time with my mp3 player. >> )
Mostl likely because of orchestra. :O

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby McDutchy » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:39 am UTC

To people wondering how you march to non-regular meters: 1 step for every downbeat All BOA bands and DCI corps do this. Occasionally you do get a right-foot stepoff out of a halt, but they're not too difficult to manage. Things like First Circle (11/4, people who tell you otherwise are wrong), Unsquare Dance (7/4) and Take 5 (5/4) can make this happen with frequency.

About the comic: not bad. I have done similar things in the past. The music is what sells it though.

Edit: Heh, didn't read the entire thread before responding. I didn't realize there were so many other Corps folks around.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Contrabass » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:24 am UTC

Just for giggles...
It's not out of the question to march the hemiola in meters of 3/4, 6/8, etc.
This can turn a fast 3 feel into a moderate two, so you always get your (leading) foot on the downbeat of beat 1. In the case that you're marching a moderate tempo 6/8 piece with a feeling of 2, you can march it in 3 (12,34,56) to pick up the pace.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby niteice » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:27 am UTC

Where's the DCA love? :) I almost marched with the Hurricanes last summer but had to back out for a variety of reasons...but the 07 show had one of the cooler visuals I've seen...dancing. The show was music of Leonard Bernstein, and one song was the scherzo from West Side Story...the guard came out and danced with some of the horn line.

Needless to say, it was quite impressive :) Unfortunately I can't find a video...
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby curious and questioning » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:32 am UTC

...and I immediately print this comic and display it on my band binder.

Only one year of high school marching band so far, but it was enough to convince me that I'm going to be in a competitive marching band for as long as I possibly can.
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby edanite » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:58 am UTC

rrwoods wrote:I'm appalled that no one has pointed this out: The flags on the downward-facing 1/8 notes are pointed the wrong direction.


This is not the first time this has happened: http://www.xkcd.com/359/

khmer wrote:Whoops! I think that's a bug in the notation software I used, the output from which xkcd transcribed for the comic.


Out of curiosity, what notation software? I want to avoid it (or at least bug the developers about it).

And, just in general:

When I'm out of step (right foot on one for me), I hop to get back together. (R(1) L(2) L(3) R(4) L(1)...)

The marching bands I've been in have had their share of tears (and even train wrecks), and no one has fallen over yet.

Best collision: during a drill down, the director gives "To the rear... Move!" which was not previously taught. I turn around and march backwards and collide with the freshman standing in shock behind me. We both play the trombone.

Best near collision: trombones doing a horizontal pass-through, two step interval front-to-back, very fast. (As I may have mentioned, I haven't been in any professional marching bands; I'm sure a more serious band could have pulled it off.)

My personal favorite walking in time movie scene is from The Music Man. Prof. Hill is attempting to get Marion's attention ("Did you drop—" "No."), and they both step in time to the background music throughout the entire scene.

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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Loupis » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:20 am UTC

I'll bet at least 1/3 of the staff at my local Best Buy would stumble as well.
They're a very helpful bunch when they're not falling down, I promise.
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Tenth Speed Writer
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby Tenth Speed Writer » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:08 am UTC

Dude... : \
The concept of time and meter disturbs me to no end.

Up until two months ago, I wrote heavily in meter. I had, and still have, a habit of thinking to myself in a set beat.
Then, I started playing bass.


Right now, my entire life is lived in time. There exists an imaginary rhythm to which all things, including music, must adhere.
I didn't think this was a problem until my bass teacher started drumming on the table during practice and fell out of time... and unlike ever before, I was driven to the temptation of homicide via cranial fracture using a stringed instrument.
(Still waiting on the FLCL-style neck-bore barrel and body-fixed firing mechanism.)







Also, to anyone expecting any other song:
Spoiler:
EPIC RICKROLL'D.

(I was actually expecting Hey Micky in some form or another.)
Civil Engineering Major, University of Alabama.
"Yessir, I reckon 'em 'ere cent'rl s'port beams'll hol' up a'right..."

Mallet über alles!

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suso
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Re: "Keeping Time" Discussion

Postby suso » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:47 am UTC

FYI: There is another thread going for all the drum corps/marching band folks over at the music forum
Imagine theres no signatures....


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