0368: "Bass"

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macronencer
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby macronencer » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

orkybash wrote:On a more on-topic note, wouldn't this be way trickier than the the comic seems to imply? Enough precision would be required that you would probably have to adjust for the speed of sound (so some sort of range-finding would be needed); you'd also be using data from the previous loop of the bass line, so you'd need to either detect or manually determine when the loop restarts (not that hard, but still a complication) and use data from the previous loop, transmitted just before the sound plays from the original source (again to account for the speed of sound)... am I over-engineering?


Nope, I agree - and I've already said something about this in my first post. I favour the brute force approach of high-amplitude infrasound to simply stomp all over it and blow the speakers through sheer pressure - although magnetic waves would also work if strong enough - though you'd have to be sure to align them with the coil axis.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby illuminati1113 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:12 pm UTC

I think bullets might be cheaper. Maybe a rock?

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Alpha Omicron » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:15 pm UTC

This one was golden even before the alt text reference.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby macronencer » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:50 pm UTC

illuminati1113 wrote:I think bullets might be cheaper. Maybe a rock?


Yes, but those are asshole solutions (no offence, I don't mean you), as opposed to classhole solutions.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby ekzrated » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:56 pm UTC

I happen to own a very well set-up sound system in my little beater. The problem is most people you hear thumping have no idea that having loud bass does not equate to a good sounding system. They overload their cars with ridiculously huge speakers, turn up the volume as loud as it gets and think that equates to a good system. Yes, my car does thump a little, but I'm considerate and keep my windows rolled up, and only blast it on the highway (and sometimes at car shows). And no one has complained about the sound once they sit in my car. I offer anyone a ride anytime to prove that not all "bumpers" are bad.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby macronencer » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:22 pm UTC

Yes ekzrated, I am familiar with people of your type, and I have no problem with you at all. What you do is a long, long way from what those idiots with the huge bass bins and the open windows are doing. You're a music lover, whilst they probably just have small genitalia.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby b.i.o » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

This one was excellent. I want one of those!

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby illuminati1113 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:01 pm UTC

macronencer wrote:
illuminati1113 wrote:I think bullets might be cheaper. Maybe a rock?


Yes, but those are asshole solutions (no offence, I don't mean you), as opposed to classhole solutions.


\:P

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby ekzrated » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:04 pm UTC

macronencer wrote:Yes ekzrated, I am familiar with people of your type, and I have no problem with you at all. What you do is a long, long way from what those idiots with the huge bass bins and the open windows are doing. You're a music lover, whilst they probably just have small genitalia.


I've tried educating some, but they balk at the idea. Maybe I shouldn't start the conversation with "That sounds like shit. Here, let me show you how it's done..."

Hmmm...

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Mystwalker » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:14 pm UTC

Reminds me of the Thumpmobile Zapper (caution: Babelfish translation!).

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby cbgoding » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:32 pm UTC

Hmmm. A more effective way to blow the speakers may be to cause interference in the form of electro-magentic pulses. you can power a voice coil with strong enough pulses; some teacher in a building 50 yards from my dorm is using a device with very powerful pulses that affects the speakers of anyone nearby. Anyways, I suggest using a pulse that modulates the sound waves coming from the loud-bass offender in a similar way to using a bass-boost button. Bass-boost turns a nice, clean sine wave into an angular, distorted wave. At high amplifier levels, this modulated wave will burn a speaker's voice coil very quickly. This last bit of info came from here: http://www.icixsound.com/iv/view_video. ... ccfa94cebd

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby knight427 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:32 pm UTC

slobrummer wrote:well, assuming you had a device that could replicate sound waves out of phase (and if the sound source or listener we're moving there would be a change in pitch due to the velocity of either object), which would be hard because you'd have to essentially record the source, then process it to make it out of phase, and then play it back which adds a few milliseconds of time,


This is why you use reference and correction mics, read this:
Active Noise Control

slobrummer wrote:it would only nullify the sound, not blow up the source speaker.


Yeah, sometimes knowing too much can ruin a good joke. If the source is moving, you have way more problems than just Doppler Shift. You have to know where the source is going to be when your control signal reaches it, so you better hope for constant velocity. Also, the control source has to be just as loud as the noise source to cancel it out completely. And, as you mentioned, the control source needs to be within 1/10th of a wavelength to get decent global attenuation. 100 Hz has a wavelength of 11.3', so you need to be about 1' away to control the bass frequencies up to 100 Hz. You'll of course be lucky to get 10 dB of attenuation though.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby curious and questioning » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:36 pm UTC

Awesome.

It looks to me like the man in the black hat is a third neighbor of the first two mentioned in the previous comic, because it seems as if the loud neighbor without elliptical dish was female and had her boyfriend over. So, who's next to respond in the apartment? I'm waiting for a comic mentioning in passing that there are now noise regulations or something, or maybe with noise blaring in the background.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby macronencer » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:55 pm UTC

Mystwalker wrote:Reminds me of the Thumpmobile Zapper (caution: Babelfish translation!).


That was extremely funny to read :)

My favourite part was "Now the moment comes, where the elephant leaves the water" :lol:
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby gormster » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:02 pm UTC

GUYS A SPEAKER IS NOT A MICROPHONE

Whilst speakers and dynamic mics work on the same electromagnetic principle, you'll find most speakers don't work very well as microphones and vice versa. That's because speakers are designed not to react to air pressure and microphones are designed not to react to signal. By far the better option would be to simply remove the magnet and cone, and amp up the signal to the voice coil. The only problem I can see here is that you'd be generating a massive magnetic field that would fuck over all electronic devices in the vicinity. Maybe you should get a bit closer to the car.

But then again, by the principles of the original mechanism, you'd be generating such massive SPLs that you'd probably puncture your own lungs, not to mention those of everyone nearby.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby ubi » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:06 pm UTC

Unfortunately I don't know enough physics to offer any criticism beyond amiring the sheer awesomeness of the concept.

I respectfully request that this device be manufactured, mass produced, and sold on the xkcd site.


One more vote on that front.

Also,

Another spin on the comic that makes man-in-hat ever more the bamf: he's not the one operating the machine. He tells the other guy to operate all the switches for him. If his neighbors accuse him of using a device to destroy their amps and annoy them with undecipherable latin music, he'll now have the defense that he literally didn't do it.


In fact, he would be charged with aiding and abetting and end up with the same punishment as the guy with his hand on the button. Sorry.

And speaking of the law...

I so want one of those. The punk-ass neighbor kid likes to have sex with his gf in his car with the bass turned up to cover up the noise at like 1AM. This would eloquently solve my problem of bass waking me up...


While kudos to getting the guy to move somewhere else with creative car, erm, detailing, let's say, you also have the option of sending the police to say hello (way to ruin the mood) since I don't think that there is a region in existance without noise laws that come into effect around 11pm (sometimes sooner!)

My most amusing experience with this (and living across the street from a movie rental local means lots of idling cars with blasting stereos while buddy picks out a movie) was meandering down from my apartment in pjs, boots and coat, to tap on the window next to buddy's girlfriend who had been left in the car. The look of shock on her face as I let her know that the music could be heard three flights up was almost worth the 15 minutes I'd spent fuming in my bed. Well, not really, but I find it easier to accept people who are stupid (i.e. don't realise what they are doing) over people who are assholes since informing the stupid people at least has the chance of being about change...and you can always hope that they end up receiving a Darwin award.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby synthgene » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:20 pm UTC

Dang, I had this idea too, except it involved an electromagnetic pulse.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby blob » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:22 pm UTC

macronencer wrote:
illuminati1113 wrote:I think bullets might be cheaper. Maybe a rock?


Yes, but those are asshole solutions (no offence, I don't mean you), as opposed to classhole solutions.


I like the idea of shooting a device which would latch onto their roof, drill through it and start crooning something at them. But it would be too expensive per shot.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby synthgene » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:26 pm UTC

If you really want to blow up some speakers why not use a methane-oxygen drive sound gun?

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/noise/index.html
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Tyfon » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:19 pm UTC

man i hate those people blaring bass like that. i need one of those guns. i have to say though that "you're horrifying" line pretty much made my day.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby cmdrrickhunter » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:31 pm UTC

aerojad wrote:it wouldn't be able to blow out someone's voice though, would it?


I actually played around with this one, you can't. I was bored and heard you could do two lines of music with a trombone by playing one note and humming another. I had fun with it. However, I noticed that if I attempted to hum the same note as I was playing, it felt like something was shoving a foot down my throat and my vocal chords simply became unable to make that particular frequency until I stopped playing the note.

After that, I figured that our vocal chords stretch in terribly nonlinear ways. Any attempt to break someone's vocal chords by feedback would simply stretch the receiving vocal chords until they were no longer on the feedback pitch, if making a sound at all. I think it would be fundamentally difficult to match this deformation effect with your "black hat box," so it'd eventually desync. It'd be faster just to put a gun against their forehead and tell them to stop yelling.

Speakers, on the other hand... you pay quite a lot for a linear response, so they would be easily susceptible to such attacks. Unless the ass-neighbor down the street was too cheap to buy good speakers, then they might just deform and sound worse =p

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Pawn » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:35 pm UTC

I heart alt text.

I wonder what that apartment is like? Like, are there other residents with sound dishes and interference frequencies...?

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby cmdrrickhunter » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:36 pm UTC

This discussion reminds me heavily of http://www.xkcd.com/356/

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Fex » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:01 am UTC

I have a lot of people around my neighborhood play stupid bass at crazy hours of the day or night. And my building is on a corner, so I have to deal with these people pulled up at stop lights. While this device seems a little complex, I have been considering using a slightly more basic device: an airhorn.

It would be great to keep an airhorn near the door, so when these idiots pull up at the lights, I can wander over, stick the airhorn in one of the open windows of the car, and give them a blast.

Still, I might get killed as a result.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Kalessin » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:46 am UTC

Fun comic.. :)

I'm reminded of Mjollnir, a fairly large subwoofer that MIT's Random House residents built a few years ago. A 24" aluminum-cone driver in a cabinet that's the size of (or which might actually be) a front-loading washing machine. From a webpage describing things at Random House:

Mjollnir is our own homebrew 24" subwoofer. A few years ago, one of our residents found an old hard drive the size of a dishwasher. There was a huge linear inductance motor to move the heads along the 14" platters. We noticed that when you plugged the motor into wall current, you got a rather loud 60Hz hum. The rest is history...


It wouldn't be so selective, but I bet it would be just as effective..

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby J Spade » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:21 am UTC

keozen wrote:Best Songs/Artists to play loud at people that play loud music out of their cars just to annoy them:

- "Bob the Builder"
- "The Birdie Song"
- Madonna - Holiday
- "If you're Happy & You Know it Clap your hands"
- The national anthem of a random country (not your own)



Fricking win on that one.


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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Zake » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:07 am UTC

cmdrrickhunter wrote:I actually played around with this one, you can't. I was bored and heard you could do two lines of music with a trombone by playing one note and humming another. I had fun with it. However, I noticed that if I attempted to hum the same note as I was playing, it felt like something was shoving a foot down my throat and my vocal chords simply became unable to make that particular frequency until I stopped playing the note.

After that, I figured that our vocal chords stretch in terribly nonlinear ways. Any attempt to break someone's vocal chords by feedback would simply stretch the receiving vocal chords until they were no longer on the feedback pitch, if making a sound at all. I think it would be fundamentally difficult to match this deformation effect with your "black hat box," so it'd eventually desync.


Which is probably just about an even cooler effect (given the lack of being arrested under charge of Sonic Assault*), given that the loud girlfriend would find her vocal cords suddenly dampened, which would probably be mysterious and upsetting, or her moans would suddenly sound really funny, which would probably spoil the mood.

Pawn wrote:I wonder what that apartment is like? Like, are there other residents with sound dishes and interference frequencies...?


Yes; neighbors call it the Sonic Slum, prospective residents are required to pass a test which involves a bank of subwoofers and a salad bowl, and has never possessed more than five fully intact windows at a time in living memory. Often, the entire block can hear some household sound or iconic song being played at full volume, or even as a physical weapon.

...Seriously, though, I could see an apartment full of sonic mad scientists being a fruitful recurring setting in the comic, especially if thats where the black hat guy hangs out.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby nmj3e » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:44 am UTC

My wife says, "I will pay you many dollars if you can invent this for me." Our neighbors (codename: "Jumanji") sorely need the kind of homeowners complaint that gets delivered attached to an incoming mortar.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby ohnoesmilk » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:19 am UTC

Catdrake wrote:Me, i'd say the best thing to do is blast kids TV show themes instead of the macarena. The Barney theme is the musical equivalent of a dirty bomb. Trick is to wear earplugs to avoid accidental exposure.


I'd blast Spice Girls, N sync, Backstreet Boys, or old school Britney. It's so catchy that it'll get stuck in their head.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby netsplit » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:26 am UTC

Zake wrote:
cmdrrickhunter wrote:Which is probably just about an even cooler effect (given the lack of being arrested under charge of Sonic Assault*), given that the loud girlfriend would find her vocal cords suddenly dampened, which would probably be mysterious and upsetting, or her moans would suddenly sound really funny, which would probably spoil the mood.



Question, wouldn't the sound levels needed for that essentially turn the entire room into a giant vibrator every time she moans?

Although it'd prolly make things happen quicker and end the moaning sooner.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby PatrickRsGhost » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:37 pm UTC

I just thought of something else I might blast:

Going along with kids' show themes, or songs from kids' shows, I'd probably do the Barney closing theme. I'd make sure I had some heavy-duty earplugs, covered with sound-cancelling headphones and a pillow tied around my head, along with an insulated box.

Then there's anything done by Ross Bagdasarian or his son. Especially the early years.

And finally, ABBA or Yoko Ono. Or Yanni.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Sandals » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:08 pm UTC

I try to do what I can to combat the bass brigade, although the only speakers I have are the standard ones that come with the car. But during the summer I do tend to drive around with my window down and music playing as loudly as I can. The reason that this does not make me as bad as them is that the music I play are the classics, such as The Beatles, Frank Sinatra etc.

I think it gives good Karma... :lol:


But i like the sound of the device that shoots onto the car drills in and plays stuff. No expense would be too much for a stunt like that!
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby BrianTung » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

This has probably been raised before, but shouldn't it be "ellipsoidal" instead of "elliptical"? Or would that be considered "breaking the sixth wall"?

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby ekzrated » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

See, I understand the whole "classhole" suggestions and all, but really... I would just educate them, show them how to make their sound systems sound incredibly well, and teach them the error of their ways.


And charge them a shitload of money for it.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby poconut » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:03 pm UTC

Hilarity! Alt text reminds me of spy vs spy somehow.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Markavian » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:41 pm UTC

Image

I thought the music choice was in bad taste. My response is bad humour.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby eternauta3k » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:02 pm UTC

I think it would have some effect on the car's speaker, besides cancelling the sound. After all, the speaker would not only have to move the air but also fight against a 180º shifted wave. It's like hooking up two AC sources 180º apart: the sum will be 0, but there'll be a lot of current circulating.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Benevolent Lion » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:29 pm UTC

I think "Springtime for Hitler" from The Producers would be a great choice. You would blow out the speakers, confuse the hell out them, and scare them to death with the song lyrics.
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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby CntrlAltWhat? » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:41 pm UTC

Benevolent Lion wrote:I think "Springtime for Hitler" from The Producers would be a great choice. You would blow out the speakers, confuse the hell out them, and scare them to death with the song lyrics.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5MrjeRiFw This would also work. Although it could have unintentional effects because it seems like everyone likes the song but me.

And it's amazing how I found that in the first place.

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Re: "Bass" discussion

Postby Max Chaplin » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:17 pm UTC

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