Page 3 of 3

Re: 1882: "Color Models"

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:12 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
(I have trouble with the common North American grammatical construction that is "write me", where I would use "write to me". And maybe its influenced by the use of Richard Of York here, rather than that Roy guy, but "I gave battle; I am giving battle; I will give battle; battle was to have been given" is not a grammatical problem in my dialect. So it's likely horses and courses in that regard.)

Giving chase, but having said chase being in vain, suggests that the chase did not result in the implied conclusion of catching (or, in a rather specific vatiation, in encouraging the potential chasee to run away). Giving battle in vain suggests that combat happened but the sought victory ended up with the other party.

Richard's final battle, presumably the Richard and the battle that was Bosworth field (because it's the most obvious such reference to use in an English context, perhaps even British as a whole) was indeed given, or made, in vain, as he fought but lost.

(That's without taking into account that a "battle" was a term used for a section of the forces. Richard gave a battle-section to (the Duke of) Norfolk, which went in first and broke against (the Earl of) Oxford's whole undivided forces representing the opponent Henry. (The Earl of) Northumberland's subdivision of the Richardian armies did nothing to help so Richard's own remaining battle (with himself at, or at least in, the helm) was 'given' to the fight. Only to fail, perhaps mostly due to the Stanley forces (mustered to the field, but with allegience pointedly undeclared, numbering about half of Richard's entire army and maybe 90% the size if the declared Anti-Richard ones, so significant) sweeping in and picking off Richard's core cohort to cement the victory that resulted in Henry VII being crowned. Depending upon twists of historical recording and storytelling. But they're tales that used to be drilled into English(/British?) schoolchildren in very definite ways, for many years not much before my time, so a scholarly understanding of both these events and this terminology would have been essentially inate to those who also perpetuated the In Vain mnemonic. Even if tinged with some archaism and historicalised poetry whilst straining to fit some otherwise random phrase to the classically-defined spread of hues.)

(Now... Didn't you find that interesting? Of course you did! It might even be accurate. Even if barely understandable, or memorable even if it is understood!)

Re: 1882: "Color Models"

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:28 pm UTC
by Steve the Pocket
I guess it's handy for people who know their English history. To me it might as well be on the same level as King Philip's alleged fondness for grilled shrimp—useful only as a combination of words that technically forms a sentence.