1849: "Decades"

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1849: "Decades"

Postby jozwa » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:18 pm UTC

Image

Title text: "In the 90s, our variety radio station used the tagline "the best music of the 70s, 80s, and 90s." After 2000, they switched to "the best music of the 80s, 90s, and today." I figured they'd change again in 2010, but it's 2017 and they're still saying "80s, 90s, and today." I hope radio survives long enough for us to find out how they deal with the 2020s."

How did they deal with the decade names 100 years ago?

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Flumble » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:25 pm UTC

(topic-ninja'd)

Did people actually say "the ${decade}s" during that decade? (I was too young during the 90s to remember :oops: ) I thought people only referred to previous decades as such.
Perhaps it just went out of fashion to group music by decades.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Wee Red Bird » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:28 pm UTC

jozwa wrote:How did they deal with the decade names 100 years ago?

They called them the Nineteen Hundreds and Nineteen Tens before going to the Twenties.
You could go with Two Thousands and Two Thousand Tens.

And while we are at it, can we all stop using 'K' in the date. Ok back in Y2K and, at a pinch, 2k4 for 2004, but some are using 2K17 for 2017. You aren't saving any characters. It isn't shorthand. Stop doing it.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby sonar1313 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:29 pm UTC

Shouldn't we have seen this coming? For the last 100 years we've done basically the same with the 19th and 20th centuries. The 1870s and 1880s were known (at least partly) the heyday of the Wild West. The 1890s became "the Gay Nineties" in early 20th century parlance. The 1920s were the Roaring Twenties, and the 1930s were the Depression era. But who the hell can tell the difference between culture of the 1900s and culture of the 1910s? Even back then, they barely could.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby cah » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:30 pm UTC

How about "early century" ?

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby keldor » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:36 pm UTC

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby jewish_scientist » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:42 pm UTC

I predict that radio will never go away. It is the only form of entertainment a person driving can enjoy, so it is going to stay relevant until someone solves the entire field of civic engineering and traffic jams stop being a thing that exist.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby airdrik » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:43 pm UTC

100 years ago people were too busy with global conflicts to bother with music, fashion, movies or culture. When the conflicts ended that's when all the culture and everything started, hence the phrase "roaring 20's".

Actually I think more likely is advances in communication, transportation, globalization, etc. lead to more rapid development and culture change. Previously time periods were largely defined in terms of centuries with sub-groupings for early vs. mid vs. late within those time periods. Now we do the same thing but every 10 years instead of 100. (the late 1800s being the main transition period).

As for the recent 2 decades, maybe I haven't been paying as much attention but the two decades have largely blurred together with less of a defined transition than we observed with previous decades. I suppose the distinction may be easier to identify after the completion of this decade?

Lastly, I recall the phrase turn-of-the-century being used to indicate the early 1900s. Perhaps turn-of-the-millennia could be used for the early 2000s?

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby sonar1313 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:04 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:100 years ago people were too busy with global conflicts to bother with music, fashion, movies or culture. When the conflicts ended that's when all the culture and everything started, hence the phrase "roaring 20's".

Nonsense. Culture doesn't stop for wars, as long as the war isn't directly on top of you. Charlie Chaplin's Tramp character was in his heyday smack in the middle of WWI. Baseball was incredibly popular especially starting in the 1900s. Fashion was huge in that time. Ragtime music was all the rage and at the peak of its popularity in those two decades. Hell, you should see the list of movies that came out during WWII, so it's not like the Russo-Japanese War stopped any music from happening.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby speising » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:05 pm UTC

re: alt-text: i didn't know randall lived in my country? they use(d because i haven't listened to them for ages) the exact same phrasing here on the major pop music channel.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:06 pm UTC

Pretty sure airdrik was being sarcastic.

speising wrote:re: alt-text: i didn't know randall lived in my country? they use(d because i haven't listened to them for ages) the exact same phrasing here on the major pop music channel.

Randall lives in Boston, MA, USA. So maybe!
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Western Rover » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:08 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:I predict that radio will never go away. It is the only form of entertainment a person driving can enjoy....


Huh? What about audiobooks, podcasts, etc.? I've been listening to audiobooks as I drive for years, the equivalent of about 15,000 pages a year. No way I would have time to read that much on paper. I switch over to the radio only to listen to the traffic report "every 10 minutes on the '9s!" (How would you punctuate that slogan? It means at 8:09, 8:19, etc.)

The radio station sandwiches their ads right before, after, and even brief ones during the traffic report, so they're not going to go out of business due to people listening only to the report. And I think my road rage is lessened having something interesting to listen to as I wait to get through intersections.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby DanAxtell » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:09 pm UTC

I vote that we use the term "The Two Thousands" for the next few years. It's unambiguous in English because we don't use the plural in large number names so it can't be confused with the number 2000. For the next few years, it will clearly be indicating "The year 2000 up till now." After 2020, we can use our 20-20 hindsight to come up with catchy names for the decades.

I'm really posting to celebrate Comic number 432. The next perfect square will be in approximately 87/3 weeks.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby cellocgw » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:12 pm UTC

speising wrote:re: alt-text: i didn't know randall lived in my country? they use(d because i haven't listened to them for ages) the exact same phrasing here on the major pop music channel.


He does live in Boston, and HEY RANDALL: WZLX is hardly "variety." They play whatever ClearChannel tells them to play.

And worse, you can always tell when a band has a concert coming up, because they suddenly get 4-sigmas' worth more airtime than any other group.
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby squall_line » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:32 pm UTC

Wee Red Bird wrote:And while we are at it, can we all stop using 'K' in the date. Ok back in Y2K and, at a pinch, 2k4 for 2004, but some are using 2K17 for 2017. You aren't saving any characters. It isn't shorthand. Stop doing it.


The only thing that immediately jumps to my mind when I hear "2K17" is in relation to video games. Specifically, the franchises owned and published by 2K Sports use 2Kyy as their annual release number, which is one of the ways to discern between such things as the ESPN release (NBA Live) and the 2K Sports release (NBA 2K).

Outside of that specific niche, I agree that it doesn't make as much sense to use it, but I don't recall hearing it outside of that context recently, either.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:32 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:Did people actually say "the ${decade}s" during that decade? (I was too young during the 90s to remember :oops: ) I thought people only referred to previous decades as such.
Yes, they do start to refer to it during that decade, but it usually increases a lot more afterwards. (Though interestingly the heyday for writing about the twenties and thirties was in the fifties.)

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby smileyjules » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:44 pm UTC

Is this a case of "Paris in the the spring"?

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Nathan 0 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:51 pm UTC

I'd argue it takes 8-12 years following the close of a decade before everyone has settled on that decade's identity, and that this comic is a bit premature. Aughts and teens are awkward terms (compared to 70s, 80s, 90s), but I posit we're not yet far enough out of the aughts for the nostalgia to have started.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Locoluis » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:58 pm UTC

The time between the turn of the century and World War I is variously called “The Edwardian Era” or “La Belle Époque” and, according to TVTropes, was “The subject of many nostalgic musical films featuring Gorgeous Period Dress from The Great Depression through The '60s”.

I think that it's too early to give the time after the turn of the millennium a specific name, because the mainstream nostalgia filter usually refers to things at least two decades ago.

Also, the boundaries of the 80s and 90s appear much sharper:
  • The 80s start with the death of Disco and the rise of pop stars like Madonna and Michael Jackson; it's the decade of Reagan, Thatcher and Gorbachev.
  • The fall of the Berlin Wall and the disolution of the Soviet Union mark the start of the 90s, the decade of Grunge, Alternative Rock, Britpop, Gangsta Rap and the Ninja Turtles.
  • That all ended with the September 11 attacks.
But what will be remembered as the boundary between the “Noughties/Turn of the Millenium” and the “New Tens”? The 2008 financial crisis? The iPad? Android? The Arab Spring? It's less clear now, IMHO.
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby pushingrobot » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:09 pm UTC

When identifying music, movies, clothes, or cars:

1967 vs. 1977: easy
1977 vs. 1987: easy
1987 vs. 1997: easy
1997 vs. 2007: fairly easy
2007 vs. 2017: hard

I don't know if it's the decline of advertising and traditional media, a resurgence of 'retro' styles, high quality recording media making the past seem less 'dated', or if I'm simply showing my age, but it feels like the advance of fashion and pop culture have slowed since 2000. We're still listening to pop dance tracks, watching superhero flicks, wearing ordinary jeans and t-shirts or recycling old fashions, and driving SUVs and sedans with the same softened edges.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby golden.number » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:12 pm UTC

I can remember during the later half of the 90s people started asking how we would refer to the first two decades of the new millennium since we were so used to talking about the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Here we are 20+ years later and there still isn't an answer! The people 2097 are going to be writing articles about how much we suck for not figuring this out for them ;-)

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Reka » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:24 pm UTC

airdrik wrote:Lastly, I recall the phrase turn-of-the-century being used to indicate the early 1900s. Perhaps turn-of-the-millennia could be used for the early 2000s?

Surely you mean turn-of-the-millennium?

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby mfb » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:54 pm UTC

DanAxtell wrote:I'm really posting to celebrate Comic number 432. The next perfect square will be in approximately 87/3 weeks.
And the next prime square will be in about 120 weeks, about September 2019 assuming the schedule doesn't change. Still in this decade.

1849 is 12321 in base 6.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:08 pm UTC

Wee Red Bird wrote:And while we are at it, can we all stop using 'K' in the date. Ok back in Y2K and, at a pinch, 2k4 for 2004, but some are using 2K17 for 2017. You aren't saving any characters. It isn't shorthand. Stop doing it.

But it's easier to chisel. You have no curves for the "K" (rather than use "◊" instead of "0"). You only need to make perfunctory curves for the "2" (can use a "Ζ", as in "Ζ◊Ι⌉" ). Because, obviously, we're all engraving our missives in stone, in this silicon-age. Well, I know I am...


Western Rover wrote:I switch over to the radio only to listen to the traffic report "every 10 minutes on the '9s!" (How would you punctuate that slogan? It means at 8:09, 8:19, etc.)

If you feel like you have to have the apostrophe, like that. Never, as far as I'm concerned, "the 9's". And the grammar/typology stylesheets that say otherwise be blow'd!

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby morerokk » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:49 pm UTC

So, is nobody gonna talk about the fact that Randall snuck a second instance of the word "and" into the comic (second line)?
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Angua » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:07 pm UTC

Did the term 'the noughties' not stick in the US?

Though I haven't heard anything for the '10s
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby azule » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:34 pm UTC

Locoluis wrote:Also, the boundaries of the 80s and 90s appear much sharper:
  • The 80s start with the death of Disco and the rise of pop stars like Madonna and Michael Jackson; it's the decade of Reagan, Thatcher and Gorbachev.
  • The fall of the Berlin Wall and the disolution of the Soviet Union mark the start of the 90s, the decade of Grunge, Alternative Rock, Britpop, Gangsta Rap and the Ninja Turtles.
  • That all ended with the September 11 attacks.

So you're almost saying that the censorship and diminishing of free speech resulting from the reaction to 9/11 put a damper on creating a unified and creative culture of the '00s.
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:24 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Did the term 'the noughties' not stick in the US?

Though I haven't heard anything for the '10s


They don't say "nought" in US English. I realised this while working briefly in Silicon Valley, after I'd spent ten minutes discussing some aspect of an ASIC design and realised my colleague had never heard the word. Of course, being a smart engineer she'd worked it out from context. (This, despite the glottal stop which meant she'd heard something more like "nor").

What I hadn't realised until reading this thread is that they do seem to say "aught". To my mind, "aught" is "anything" just as "nought" is "nothing". (The northern dialect "owt" and "nowt" are presumably forms of the same two words).
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby somitomi » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:54 pm UTC

I wonder what's ambiguous about "2000s".
pushingrobot wrote:When identifying music, movies, clothes, or cars:

1967 vs. 1977: easy
1977 vs. 1987: easy
1987 vs. 1997: easy
1997 vs. 2007: fairly easy
2007 vs. 2017: hard

I can't say this for certain, but I think 2007 vs. 2017 would be easy for me in terms of cars (I don't follow music, clothes or movies closely enough for this). Of course I'm young enoug for mid-2000s cars to be the first ones I can remember being new, so I might be more sensitive to the changes in general car design since that time.
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby timrem » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:58 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:I wonder what's ambiguous about "2000s".


"2000s" would generally refer to the century, not the decade.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby xtifr » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:02 pm UTC

Before the 1990s, it was fairly common to see references to the 1890s as "the Nineties" or, frequently, "the Naughty Nineties". The latter is, in fact, the name of the movie in which Abbott & Costello's famous "Who's On First" skit appears.

I'm not aware of any similar term used for the 1900s or 1910s, so I think Randall might be on to something here. For named decades, we seem to have jumped from "the naughty nineties" to "the roaring twenties".

(Am I supposed to say something about "get off my lawn" here? I'm old, so I tend to forget these things.) :mrgreen:
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:14 pm UTC

timrem wrote:
somitomi wrote:I wonder what's ambiguous about "2000s".


"2000s" would generally refer to the century, not the decade.


The ambiguity is resolved by the pronunciation:

2000-2100 = "the two thousands"
2000-2010 = "the twenty-hundreds"

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby svenman » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:23 pm UTC

Reka wrote:
airdrik wrote:Lastly, I recall the phrase turn-of-the-century being used to indicate the early 1900s. Perhaps turn-of-the-millennia could be used for the early 2000s?

Surely you mean turn-of-the-millennium?

To be fair, there are two millennia involved...

Come to think of it, why is the singular form acutally the usual one in the phrase "turn of the millennium/century/decade"?
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Makabriel » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:37 pm UTC

I think you guys are over thinking it.

The reason that they haven't adopted the 00's, 10's etc is the numbering convention. Music of the 60's 70's and 80's sounds right. Music of the 80's 90's and Thousands ... throws off your numbering. Even 90's, Thousands, and 10's. It sounds like you're saying 1990's 1900's and 1910's.

I'm sure we'll get our "Thousands, 10's and 20's"

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby wumpus » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:48 pm UTC

sonar1313 wrote:Shouldn't we have seen this coming? For the last 100 years we've done basically the same with the 19th and 20th centuries. The 1870s and 1880s were known (at least partly) the heyday of the Wild West. The 1890s became "the Gay Nineties" in early 20th century parlance. The 1920s were the Roaring Twenties, and the 1930s were the Depression era. But who the hell can tell the difference between culture of the 1900s and culture of the 1910s? Even back then, they barely could.


I'm pretty sure I've heard people who were there refer to 1900-1909 as "the oughts". This might be second hand, as I had to have been much younger to hear it directly.

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lost decades

Postby doomvox » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:05 pm UTC

I've got mixed feelings about Randall's thesis here: I think it's
true that when you're moving through the zero decade, you're
perception is "here we are in a new millenia", so the decade-name
issue doesn't come up

But the political thesis that some here have brought up has some
merit: Personally, I wanted to called the 2000s "The Naughts"
(and frequently I still do), but I felt like that decade got
stolen from us, and it became "the post 9/11 era".

I think pushingrobot has really nailed it though: we're not using
decade names because *we've got nothing to talk about*. Take
music: there's a global style that hasn't changed much in over 20
years (and if you'd told me back in the 90s that "electroclash"
was going to conquer the world, I would have laughed at you, but
it's Ladytron Uber Alles).

And there's another angle: in the 1960s people got obsessed with
change, everyone got the idea that new things were happening and
*were going to keep happening* (and shortly afterwards Science
Fiction went mainstream: this was the Discovery of the Future), so
yeah, during the 70s, 80s and 90s people were thinking about the
tenor of the times in a broader way than they are now, where the
big questions have to do with fads in consumer technology toys.

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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Plasma Mongoose » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:25 am UTC

When we get to the 2020s we will need to make sure people know you are talking about the 2020s and not the 1920s.
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby azule » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:23 am UTC

Plasma Mongoose wrote:When we get to the 2020s we will need to make sure people know you are talking about the 2020s and not the 1920s.

The 20s was a time of advanced technology, especially time travel. Which century was I talking about?
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby fluffysheap » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:45 am UTC

pushingrobot wrote:When identifying music, movies, clothes, or cars:

1967 vs. 1977: easy
1977 vs. 1987: easy
1987 vs. 1997: easy
1997 vs. 2007: fairly easy
2007 vs. 2017: hard


For cars there's a good reason at least, fuel economy standards have forced every manufacturer to optimize for drag. Almost every car now has a drag coefficient below .3, which only the sleekest sports cars would have in the 90s, and nothing would have in the 70s.

Movies largely largely reflect the other trends. Prior to the 2000s every decade had a distinctive look to movie film and special effects, but with the prevalent digitally recorded, CGI heavy movies, there's less improvement possible in the technology. Combine that with the less distinctive fashion and the only way to tell how old a movie is, is by seeing how old the actors are.

There have always been retro fashion trends and they have always been looking back about 20 years. There have always been retro music acts too, whether the 60s-themed B-52s in the 80s or the 80s-themed Ataris in the 2000s. I can't immediately think of any explicitly 90s themed popular music right now but the decade isn't over.

Technology impacts music too. The 40s were the first decade with common recorded music, the 50s were a huge change because of the invention of rock. But after that, it's mostly technology driven. The 60s were the decade of the electric guitar (or more accurately the distorted electric guitar), the 70s the electric organ* and multi track mastering, the 80s the synthesizer and drum machine, the 90s were the exception that proves the rule, and the 2000s the auto-tune and computer generated audio. But from the 2000s to the 2010s you don't see any technological changes. If anything, technology is hampering change now because these are the decades of compression, ear buds and loudness wars, so it's all really just shouting.

As for fashion, I'm not sure. I think it's not that it's the same as much as it is just more understated. Nobody would look at the fashions of the 70s or 80s and say, hey, that's a really subtle look.

* If you hear popular music and think "that sounds really 70s" and it isn't because it's disco, chances are somebody is playing a Hammond organ.
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Re: 1849: "Decades"

Postby Wee Red Bird » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:47 am UTC

morerokk wrote:So, is nobody gonna talk about the fact that Randall snuck a second instance of the word "and" into the comic (second line)?

The first rule of And club is no one talks about And club. And
and the second rule of And club is no one talks about And club.


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