1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

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1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:45 am UTC

Image
Title text: If used with software that could keep up, a scroll wheel mapped to send a stream of 'undo' and 'redo' events could be kind of cool.

And then there's us regular users, who don't bother changing any settings then get annoyed that nothing works the way we want.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby jonhaug » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:17 am UTC

I have actually never understood classic keyboard layout, at least not the Norwegian one. Why is the Alt key placed just below the X key? This makes it hard to use ordinary normal Emacs key sequences! Who needs the Caps Lock key anyway? And the Windows key?

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:31 am UTC

It'd probably be a red flag if the spacebar was labeled "spacetimebar."

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:42 am UTC

There's a lovely spacetimebar in the restaurant at the end of the universe. Serves an amazing pan galactic gargle blaster.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:46 am UTC

Time And Relative Dimensions In Spacebar?

(It appears to be a small key, but...)

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby gcommer » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:18 am UTC

Obligatory emacs implementation

Code: Select all

(defun mwheel-scroll (event)
  (interactive (list last-input-event))
  (let ((button (mwheel-event-button event)))
    (cond ((eq button mouse-wheel-down-event)
           (undo-tree-undo))
          ((eq button mouse-wheel-up-event)
           (undo-tree-redo)))))

You'll need to M-x package-install RET undo-tree if you don't have undo-tree yet (provides easy undo-tree-{undo,redo})
It looks like this: https://www.gjp.cc/i/scroll-so-fast.webm

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby svenman » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:39 am UTC

That sounds like an especially interesting place for astronauts to hang out.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Hiferator » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:38 am UTC

Most of the time when someone tries something on my laptop I forget that I need to tell them Fn and left control are switched until they try and fail repeatedly to copy and paste something.

I already keep a separate "normal" browser profile for guests, but the Ctrl/Fn-switch is a bios thing.

But it really is the manufacturer's fault for putting Fn where Ctrl should be (and Print Screen where Menu should be).

The Capslock remap hardly ever matters; no one uses it anyway.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:18 am UTC

English US-International keyboard layout, taskbar on the left edge of the screen with auto-hide. That's usually enough to make mine unusable by anyone else.

And yet the conformist Nazis where I used to work were most worried about the navy-on-cyan default color scheme.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby HES » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:40 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:taskbar on the left edge of the screen with auto-hide.

Even without auto-hide, vertical taskbars are enough to fuck with most people.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby somitomi » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:51 am UTC

Mine has the Fn key working the other way around, i.e. you press it to use the function keys as function keys instead of adjusting the volume or brightness or turning the touchpad off and such. It's the default set up on this laptop and it's great. And they were clever about it, since this would make Alt+F4 turn into Alt+Fn+F4, F4 closes the window (and F5 refreshes), cutting it down to just one keypress. This (combined with Windows 8) is the reason I now turn off all computers with Alt+F4.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby orthogon » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:20 pm UTC

I always screw up when I try to use Fn. Key combinations like Ctrl-End, Ctrl-Shift-Right have become internalised to the point that I no longer consciously know what they are. When I try to do editing on the laptop I have to think about which key I need and work out whether I need to press Fn, and somehow I always get it wrong and end up at the end of the document with nothing selected.

ETA: It's not just the Fn key: it's also that the movement keys are in a different spatial arrangement so I can't just use muscle memory.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby sfmans » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:33 pm UTC

The Caps Lock key is great; abc uses uppercase and lowercase to distinguish octaves, and a sequence like G/F/^E/D/ is way quicker to transcribe with the Caps key.

So back off, Caps Lock h8rzzz! :)

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:57 pm UTC

Two comments.

First, this is an exact analogy for the "good old days" of unix terminals, where my (or anyone's) .cshrc and ~/bin/mytoys set up a personalized environment full of shortcut commands and whatnot. Trying to work in someone else's shell envir was like trying to type in a foreign language.

Second, Why The Fuck don't desktop KBs have a < Fn> key to shift the operations tied to the F1-F12 keys just like every laptop KB?
(Now some whizkid will tell me it's ESC-WIN-ALT or something . Fine. get offa my lawn anyway)
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:59 pm UTC

sfmans wrote:The Caps Lock key is great; abc uses uppercase and lowercase to distinguish octaves, and a sequence like G/F/^E/D/ is way quicker to transcribe with the Caps key.

So back off, Caps Lock h8rzzz! :)


Not in LilyPond , they don't :twisted:
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby HES » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:20 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I always screw up when I try to use Fn.

It occurs to me that the laptop I'm using right now is in a docking station, and my computer at home is a desktop, so my solution to using laptop keyboards is "don't".

sfmans wrote:The Caps Lock key is great; abc uses uppercase and lowercase to distinguish octaves, and a sequence like G/F/^E/D/ is way quicker to transcribe with the Caps key.
Ditto CAD drafting. Some things use sentence case, some things are intentionally all caps (to slow down the reader). When you throw throw references into the mix that have letters, numbers, and dashes, shift becomes inconvenient.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Znirk » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:29 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
sfmans wrote:The Caps Lock key is great; abc uses uppercase and lowercase to distinguish octaves, and a sequence like G/F/^E/D/ is way quicker to transcribe with the Caps key.

So back off, Caps Lock h8rzzz! :)


Not in LilyPond , they don't :twisted:


It's fine, we have \relative{}.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Apeiron » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:57 pm UTC

The scrollwheel undo/redo is a bloody brilliant idea.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby TV4Fun » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:04 pm UTC

I felt similarly when lending someone my calculator once and trying to explain to them what reverse Polish notation was.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby timepiece » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:05 pm UTC

The alternate keyboard I have on my phone is evidently weird enough that no one will use my phone at all. My husband calls it a secondary security feature.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:09 pm UTC

TV4Fun wrote:I felt similarly when lending someone my calculator once and trying to explain to them what reverse Polish notation was.

Numbers enter repeat operator enter then, result stack returning, reused output or?

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Flumble » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:50 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
TV4Fun wrote:I felt similarly when lending someone my calculator once and trying to explain to them what reverse Polish notation was.

Numbers enter repeat operator enter then, result stack returning, reused output or?

Assuming this is RPN and not just unintelligible: the problem with applying (R)PN to english sentences is that a lot of words aren't unambiguously verbs or non-verbs, and most verbs are variadic. Also are adjectives unary operators or part of the 'number'?

So, err, could you rephrase your sentence?

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby JohnTheWysard » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:36 pm UTC

"Oh, and be careful - Ctrl-Alt-Del shorts out the battery and makes it blow up."

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby EvanED » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:42 pm UTC

jonhaug wrote:And the Windows key?
Dude, the Windows key is awesome, and even more awesome on Linux than on Windows. :-)

I have all my window manager keys set up to use the Windows key (mod4), so I can use simple shortcuts like mod4-<number> to switch virtual desktops or mod4-c to close the current window without really any worry of it messing with application shortcuts (or vice versa).

It's an extra modifier key; what's not to love?

Hiferator wrote:The Capslock remap hardly ever matters; no one uses it anyway.
I used to remap caps to ctrl, but I stopped doing that -- because me being used to that meant that I often did the wrong thing when using other computers. I use Dvorak too and can switch between it and QWERTY without much trouble, but the ctrl thing was just an incessant pain.

(I probably made it worse by swapping the keys rather than just setting both to ctrl, but whatever.)

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby ManaUser » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:45 pm UTC

I just discovered that if I hold down shift, my scroll wheel already goes through time. Although the directions are the opposite of what I was expecting.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Solra Bizna » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:43 pm UTC

On my previous laptop, I rearranged the keycaps so they were arranged as Dvorak instead of QWERTY. I didn't change the actual keyboard layout, I only rearranged the keycaps. I did it to confuse non-touch-typists when they tried to use my laptop.

Even though it only came up once, I wasn't disappointed.

(It also came in handy when my Dvorak-using friend forgot which layout he was in and sent an entire garbled message; I could use my own keyboard as a visual aid to remap his messages.)

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:47 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:
TV4Fun wrote:I felt similarly when lending someone my calculator once and trying to explain to them what reverse Polish notation was.

Numbers enter repeat operator enter then, result stack returning, reused output or?

Assuming this is RPN and not just unintelligible: the problem with applying (R)PN to english sentences is that a lot of words aren't unambiguously verbs or non-verbs, and most verbs are variadic. Also are adjectives unary operators or part of the 'number'?

So, err, could you rephrase your sentence?

XthenY(repeat(stack.enter(numbers)[,twice]),stack.enter(operator));
stack.resolve(stack.pop.func(stack.pop.data,stack.pop.data))=>stack.return;
reuse.requested?(call(nextInput,stack)):(stack.result=>output.return);

HTH, HAND ;)

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby iabervon » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:59 pm UTC

Using shift-shift to switch between Qwerty and Dvorak is nuts. That's obviously supposed to be maximize or horizontal window shade, depending on whether you do it left-to-right or right-to-left.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby wst » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:35 pm UTC

Having just bought a laptop (Thinkpad X230) and immediately rooting around to check it wasn't stuck with that bastard supervisor password enabled (it wasn't! I was worried I'd have to get the screwdrivers...) I promptly installed Mint (w/ xfce) to get myself back into the *nix thing. It's annoyingly familiar though... I need to obfuscate the experience a bit more.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Reka » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:28 pm UTC

My boss has the infuriating habit of turning off numlock whenever he uses a computer, even if it's only for a few seconds. Apparently, that little light bothers him. Also, he insists on using 4-8-6-2 instead of the actual arrow keys. I keep wishing I had the time and expertise to make it so that if he tries to turn off numlock on my computer, it'll beep annoyingly at him, pop up a message saying "Stop that!", and not turn off numlock.

I've been told PowerShell may be able to do what I want, but I haven't had time to try to learn it.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Various Varieties » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:08 am UTC

Nothing to do with annoying other users, but mapping the mouse scroll wheel to unconventional functions is a thing in some video games. In Counter-Strike, mapping the scroll wheel to shoot and then using the dual Berettas was an amusing way of achieving impossible firing rates. And a lot of Mirror's Edge speedrunners bind the wheel to jump, in order to perform certain bug-exploiting techniques.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:52 am UTC

Reka wrote:My boss has the infuriating habit of turning off numlock whenever he uses a computer, even if it's only for a few seconds. Apparently, that little light bothers him. Also, he insists on using 4-8-6-2 instead of the actual arrow keys. I keep wishing I had the time and expertise to make it so that if he tries to turn off numlock on my computer, it'll beep annoyingly at him, pop up a message saying "Stop that!", and not turn off numlock.

I've been told PowerShell may be able to do what I want, but I haven't had time to try to learn it.
Since a corporate environment is probably windows based, try autohotkey. The syntax is erratic and weird, but it has all the low level windows hooks as language keywords.

Make it so that turning off Num Lock, will enable Caps Lock.
And turning off Caps Lock, will turn on Scroll Lock.
And then to complete the cycle; turning off Scroll Lock, will turn Num Lock back on.

Or keep it simple and just make pressing Num Lock flash the light a few times and then leave it in the on state.

Or if you want to get creative, make it so that pressing numlock causes your current window to be carved into a doughnut shape.

Code: Select all

#Persistent
#SingleInstance force
; NUMLOCK MADNESS
NumLock::
WinGetPos, x, y, w, h, A
w23 := w*2/3
h23 := h*2/3
w3 := w/3
h3 := h/3
WinSet, Region,  0-0 %w%-0 %w23%-%h3% %w3%-%h3% %w3%-%h23% %w23%-%h23% %w23%-%h3% %w3%-%h3% %w23%-%h3% %w%-0 %w%-%h% 0-%h% 0-0, A
return

; Fix things with SHIFT-NumLock
+NumLock::
WinGetPos, x, y, w, h, A
WinSet, Region,  0-0 %w%-0 %w%-%h% 0-%h% 0-0, A
return
Last edited by SuicideJunkie on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:16 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:10 am UTC

To be generally annoying (to someone who doesn't like a single light on) but not actually disruptive, arrange the ScrollLock light to act as odd-parity bit for the trio (on if neither or both of the others are, off if just either), and ScrollLock to fight against even-parity by toggling NumLock (as tolerance of that is what you're aiming for, right?)...

If I still didn't like a single light on, I'd probably end up trying to work with all three active as the next best (shift for lowercase!), which would be entertaining to see being adapted to. ;)

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby jared.hess » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:14 am UTC

Since the emacs implementation has been posted, I submit the vim implementation:

Code: Select all

set mouse=a
map <ScrollWheelUp> u
map <ScrollWheelDown> <C-R>


Actually, I'd like to be able to do something like Ctrl+ScrollWheelUp for undo, but I can't seem to get it to work. I assume something like <C-ScrollWheelUp> should do it, but I think my terminal is not sending both the Ctrl and scrollwheel character sequences.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby ManaUser » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:21 am UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:Since a corporate environment is probably windows based, try autohotkey. The syntax is erratic and weird, but it has all the low level windows hooks as language keywords.

I was gonna suggest the same thing. It's great tool for simple UI tweaks on Windows, and it can do more if you ever want to.
Another option, should you for some reason decide against annoying your boss, would be to make it just turn back on after a few minutes idle.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby enderlord99 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:06 am UTC

My grandsibling died because of scroll wheels. The cheese is cold.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby somitomi » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:21 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:
First, this is an exact analogy for the "good old days" of unix terminals, where my (or anyone's) .cshrc and ~/bin/mytoys set up a personalized environment full of shortcut commands and whatnot. Trying to work in someone else's shell envir was like trying to type in a foreign language.

Soooo, easy then? :mrgreen:
Reka wrote:My boss has the infuriating habit of turning off numlock whenever he uses a computer, even if it's only for a few seconds. Apparently, that little light bothers him. Also, he insists on using 4-8-6-2 instead of the actual arrow keys. I keep wishing I had the time and expertise to make it so that if he tries to turn off numlock on my computer, it'll beep annoyingly at him, pop up a message saying "Stop that!", and not turn off numlock.

I've been told PowerShell may be able to do what I want, but I haven't had time to try to learn it.

Still better than having no num lock indicator and not knowing you've turned it off accidentally since you last used the numpad. That's the one gripe I have about my laptop's hardware. The Caps lock indicator's in a weird place too, but at least there is one...
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby orthogon » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:51 am UTC

Reka wrote:My boss has the infuriating habit of turning off numlock whenever he uses a computer, even if it's only for a few seconds. Apparently, that little light bothers him. Also, he insists on using 4-8-6-2 instead of the actual arrow keys.

Is it not just possible that the two might be related? If he wants to do the latter, then he has to do the former, surely?

The main use of Caps Lock is that you can toggle it and check that the light goes on and off as a basic sign-of-life. However I'm no longer sure what it proves these days, when the keyboard itself is probably running Linux.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby somitomi » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:52 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
The main use of Caps Lock is that you can toggle it and check that the light goes on and off as a basic sign-of-life. However I'm no longer sure what it proves these days, when the keyboard itself is probably running Linux.

It proves that the LED works and you haven't gone blind.
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Re: 1806: "Borrow Your Laptop"

Postby Flumble » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:33 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:The main use of Caps Lock is that you can toggle it and check that the light goes on and off as a basic sign-of-life. However I'm no longer sure what it proves these days, when the keyboard itself is probably running Linux.

THE MAIN USE OF CAPS LOCK IS TO BE LOUD ON THE INTERNET. IT'S WEIRD HOW YOU READ THIS IN A SHOUTING VOICE BY DEFAULT.


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