1766: "Apple Spectrum"

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Sizik
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1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Sizik » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:33 pm UTC

Image
If I were trapped on a desert island, and could have an unlimited supply of any one type of apple, I'd be like, "How did this situation happen?"

So, an island with an apple tree?
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:41 pm UTC

(I wander in, check, find a new one, wonder if I'm going to be OP again, and find that I'm spared the effort by just one minute.... ;) )

If you don't like the apples from that tree, plant some of its apples' pips, grow some more trees and try those apples. If/when you get apples you like, learn to graft onto rootstock to continue the type(s) you like.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Reka » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:50 pm UTC

I've always wondered: why do people still grow red delicious apples? Is there anyone in this universe who likes them?

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby speising » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:51 pm UTC

this makes me sad that honeycrisps don't seem to be known here.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby chris857 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:55 pm UTC

XKCD wrote:HONEYCRISP


My man! Those are my favorite apples (and Braeburn to a lesser degree).

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby cucio » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:56 pm UTC

When I saw this comic title appear on my RSS reader, the first thing I thought was: "but the Spectrum was made by Sinclair, not Apple!" :wink:

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:57 pm UTC

I'm one of those poor fools who grew up on red "delicious" apples and thought I just didn't like eating (vs baking) apples. I had my first honeycrisp a few weeks ago. It was an eye-opening experience.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby The Chosen One » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:17 pm UTC

Reminds me of that episode of Community where they try to figure out if Nicholas Cage is good or bad as an actor.
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Alsadius » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:45 pm UTC

Seriously, any non-apple-lovers, try a Honey Crisp. They're amazing. More expensive than most other apples, but totally worth it. And I'm normally a fruit hater.

Also, aren't Granny Smiths mostly used for pies? The chemistry of the cooking process works better with apples like that, or something.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby drazen » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:47 pm UTC

Mrs. Drazen gets Fuji apples. Are they considered "regular apples" for the purposes of this exercise, or, as a hybrid, are they half way down the line to red delicious? Or is it a Schröedinger's Apple situation?

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:52 pm UTC

"Do you like apples?"
"Yes..."
"Well, I got her phone number. How d'ya like THEM apples?"
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Unclevertitle » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:56 pm UTC

I have never heard of honeycrisp apples before. My first instinct was that it was a joke about some kind of cereal or something.
Now I'm just a little bit saddened that apparently I've been deprived of the best apples the world has to offer. I'll have to try some someday.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Shyandya » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:59 pm UTC

Honeycrisp are good, but nothing has ever beaten the "Jazz" apples for me! (also a blind apple tasting with 7 apple varieties yielded that result)

Boscop are the best for baking. Apparently the sour tastes survive and turn delicious, while sweet apples will just taste bland.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Old Bruce » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:16 pm UTC

In my family the apple of choice is the Gravenstein apple followed by the Newton apple. Yes these were grown in our back yard and I have only seen the Gravenstein apple for sale once several years ago.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby muldo » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:30 pm UTC

Am I the only one who's tickled by the (possibly unintentional) David S. Pumpkins nod?

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby jc » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:31 pm UTC

Reka wrote:I've always wondered: why do people still grow red delicious apples? Is there anyone in this universe who likes them?

Well, stores keep stocking them, and they wouldn't do that if nobody bought them. So there must be a good number of people in your vicinity who like them. They just aren't the sort of people that you hang out with.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:32 pm UTC

jc wrote:
Reka wrote:I've always wondered: why do people still grow red delicious apples? Is there anyone in this universe who likes them?

Well, stores keep stocking them, and they wouldn't do that if nobody bought them. So there must be a good number of people in your vicinity who like them. They just aren't the sort of people that you hang out with.

They look good in a fruit bowl, and they have a catchy name...

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:41 pm UTC

And they're what an awful lot of people grew up with, so they're what people *expect* apples to be and to look like.

So far as it goes, there are other modern cultivars like the honeycrisp. (For example, the sweetango.) I haven't tried them, but I assume they're also fall on the right hand side of the spectrum.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Deejaye6 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:49 pm UTC

We can thank the University of Minnesota for the Honeycrisp apple. And you may not know it, but for those of us with an allergy to raw apples, the Honeycrisp does not trigger that reaction! If I could move the Honeycrisp farther to the right on that chart (beyond "Good"), I would.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:52 pm UTC

For those looking to find Honeycrisp (or any other variety) in the US (or several other countries), this website shows a map of orchards that grow them.
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby jc » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:54 pm UTC

drazen wrote:Mrs. Drazen gets Fuji apples. Are they considered "regular apples" for the purposes of this exercise, or, as a hybrid, are they half way down the line to red delicious? Or is it a Schröedinger's Apple situation?

I've seen Fuji apples described as "average in all measurable properties" that apples have. So, if you think red delicious apples are too sticky sweet, while Macintosh and Granny Smiths aren't sweet enough, try a Fuji, which is halfway between them. If you think Macs are over-the-top sour (acidic), but delicious are bland, try a Fuji, which has half the acidity of a Mac. If you don't like Granny Smiths because the "never get ripe", but many other apples get overripe an lose their taste, try a Fuji with a bit of visible green. And so on.

We tend to think of "average" and meaning that there's nothing special about them. But being average in most qualities may turn out to be just about the amount of those qualities that many people really like.

(It's similar to a study I read a couple of years ago, trying to measure what it was about both male and female humans that the other sex found most physically attractive. They used photos of real people, and also used image-processing software to create "average" images that were midway between sets of photos in their measurable qualities. It turned out that the images rated most attractive for both sexes were the ones that were the averages of the largest numbers of the photos in their collection.)

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Whizbang » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:55 pm UTC

Of course there is always the fact that the modern western diet trains us to place high value on sweetness. Older generations probably found the Red Delicious perfectly tasty, otherwise they wouldn't have named it so. It is not the breed's fault that our palates have changed.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Keyman » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:03 pm UTC

Deejaye6 wrote:We can thank the University of Minnesota for the Honeycrisp apple. And you may not know it, but for those of us with an allergy to raw apples, the Honeycrisp does not trigger that reaction! If I could move the Honeycrisp farther to the right on that chart (beyond "Good"), I would.
As a proud Minnesotan, and a Golden Gopher alum...you're welcome.

For those of you across the pond, we're advised the Honeycrisp may be known in Europe as a "Honeycrunch" apple.

The U has actually been involved in 'creating' apple varieties for more than 100 years.
http://mnhardy.umn.edu/varieties/fruit/ ... -varieties
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:10 pm UTC

I'm sorry, I have to object to Honeycrisp being the "good" endpoint in a world where SweeTango/Minneiska (another U of M production!) and Pink Lady/Cripps Pink both exist.
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Locoluis » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:36 pm UTC

Sizik wrote:So, an island with an apple tree?


Apple trees grow in temperate and mild sub-tropical climates, require good irrigation and don't take coastal conditions too well.

You need an island large enough to contain a sheltered valley. And a deserted island that can support natural apple growing will most likely feature a small orchard, not a single tree.
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:38 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Of course there is always the fact that the modern western diet trains us to place high value on sweetness. Older generations probably found the Red Delicious perfectly tasty, otherwise they wouldn't have named it so. It is not the breed's fault that our palates have changed.

You may be barking up the wrong tree on that one. I listened to an interview with David Bedford a few weeks ago on Splendid Table. He's one of the guys who helped develop the honeycrisp and the interview is what sent me looking for them. One of the topics that came up in the interview was whether or not apples were getting sweeter. Apparently, north American and northern European tastes still generally run to a balance of sweet and tartness. It's apparently populations outside that area that have a much lower tolerance for tartness in their apples.

Anyways, based on my personal experiences, I'd say the differences between red delicious and honeycrisp really don't boil down to the latter being sweeter. I'd characterize the latter as have a much ... brighter ... flavor. And the difference in texture is night and day.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby dimochka » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:40 pm UTC

Interesting / weird that my gym decided to send me an email today that included this link. Does Randall work for Equinox ??

http://furthermore.equinox.com/articles/2013/10/apples
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby golden.number » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:49 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:For those looking to find Honeycrisp (or any other variety) in the US (or several other countries), this website shows a map of orchards that grow them.


That map appears to be out of date. For instance, this orchard definitely sells them (I've purchased them there many times - they are as big as my two fists put together and are awesome) but it doesn't appear on the list. Actually, there are a ton of Orchards in Oregon that cultivate HoneyCrisps but aren't on that list. I wonder if its the same for Washington which has a suspiciously low number of orchards on that map for a state that is so famous for its apples.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby golden.number » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:52 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:I'm sorry, I have to object to Honeycrisp being the "good" endpoint in a world where SweeTango/Minneiska (another U of M production!) and Pink Lady/Cripps Pink both exist.


I think it depends on what you are doing with the apples. Pink Lady is my favorite eating apple, but HoneyCrips is my favorite saucing apple.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:55 pm UTC

Re: the Red Delicious, it's not that people's tastes have changed, it's that they've been bred for so long to look like the picture-perfect ideal apple (which is, presumably, what most people buy for) that such things as any noticeable amount of flavor or a texture that isn't mealy mush have fallen by the wayside genetically. Like what happened to the rose, which really did smell sweet before centuries of breeding for appearance only sidelined that.
Last edited by commodorejohn on Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:56 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby fibonacci » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:55 pm UTC

cucio wrote:When I saw this comic title appear on my RSS reader, the first thing I thought was: "but the Spectrum was made by Sinclair, not Apple!" :wink:


This Spectrum has a Holobyte to it.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Older generations probably found the Red Delicious perfectly tasty, otherwise they wouldn't have named it so.
By the same logic, Greenland must have been lush and green when Vikings first landed there, otherwise they wouldn't have named it so.

Really, the apple has changed since its origin, and might once have been considered delicious even by the same people who now largely agree that it's awful.

By the 1940s, the Red Delicious had become the country’s most popular apple, with the broad shoulders and lipstick shine of a Golden Age Hollywood star. The cosmetic changes were a boon for industrial agriculturalists: Apples that turned rosy before they were fully ripe could be picked earlier and stored longer, and skins with more red pigment tended to be thicker, which extended shelf life and hid bruises. But as genes for beauty were favored over those for taste, the skins grew tough and bitter around mushy, sugar-soaked flesh. Still, by the 1980s, the Red Delicious made up 75 percent of the crop produced in Washington. By the time selective breeding had taken its toll, according to Burford, a few big nurseries controlled the market, planting decisions were made from the remove of boardrooms, and consumers didn’t have many varieties to choose from. The Red Delicious became “the largest compost-maker in the country,” he said, as shoppers routinely bought the apples and threw them away.


(What commodorejohn said, basically.)
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Eshru » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:11 pm UTC

The best apples I've had are lemonade apples, which taste about like you'd expect (about 70% of the time) and are available here (Chicago) for all of a month.

Those along with cotton candy grapes are two of science's greatest achievements.

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:40 pm UTC

I could never really see the point of apples: they taste OK but i couldn't understand why people considered them good enough to be worth the swollen lips, itchy throat and general discomfort for half an hour or more afterwards. I was, I kid you not, in my twenties before i realised that what I had, was an allergy. Ever since then, well, I'm just not really into Pokémon.
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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby ps.02 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:01 pm UTC

Yeah so, the SweeTango has a pretty good reputation, but what a godawful name. I'd almost refuse to buy one just on that principle. Is there another axis on the graph from boring or dumb name (Red D.), through reasonable brand (Gala, Braeburn, Honeycrisp), to cringeworthy (SweeTango)?

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby hermitian » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:16 pm UTC


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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:05 pm UTC

My personal favorite on the Apple Spectrum is the "Infrared Delicious."

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Reka » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:22 pm UTC

Old Bruce wrote:In my family the apple of choice is the Gravenstein apple

My dad once drove to Sebastopol (California), a 7-hour drive each direction, found a grower who hadn't converted to more-profitable grapes, and bought two crates of Gravenstein apples. He ate most of them within about two months. (Yes, I know they're supposed to be a cooking/cider apple, but he liked them for eating.)

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby Darkhand » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:11 pm UTC

Braeburn master race represent!

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Re: 1766: "Apple Spectrum"

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:14 pm UTC

All three of those I'm very meh on. Honeycrisp are too sweet for me, I like 'em much more tart. Arkansas Black, Winesap, Johnathan, Cripps Pink, Pink Perl, Gravenstein for me. Thanks.
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