1216: "Sticks and Stones"

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Freiberg
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1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Freiberg » Fri May 24, 2013 4:48 am UTC

Image

Alt Text: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can make me think I deserved it."

An alternative would be "Sticks and stones can't break my bones, and words can't hurt me either." I would recommend using it only if you happen to be Superman.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri May 24, 2013 4:53 am UTC

It's a pretty twisted world where childhood rhymes are rated R.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby glasnt » Fri May 24, 2013 4:55 am UTC

Sticks and stones may break my bones but...

FUS RO DAH

freaking hurts.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri May 24, 2013 4:58 am UTC

Sticks and stones may not break my bones.

And while words might be able to hurt me, they may not do so either.

I forbid it.
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby jpk » Fri May 24, 2013 5:01 am UTC

rhomboidal wrote:It's a pretty twisted world where childhood rhymes are rated R.


Ever read Grimm, or any of the source material for any of the stuff we consider "children's stories" today?

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby joee » Fri May 24, 2013 5:04 am UTC

Sticks and stones may break my bones,
But words can also hurt me.
Stones and sticks break only skin,
While words are ghosts that haunt me.

Slant and curved the word-swords fall
To pierce and stick inside me.
Bats and bricks may ache through bones,
But words can mortify me.

Pain from words has left its scar
On mind and heart that's tender.
Cuts and bruises now have healed;
It's words that I remember.


http://www.english-for-students.com/Truth.html
Hi glasnt.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Crosshair » Fri May 24, 2013 5:41 am UTC

The comic makes me wonder if Randall has been reading Leo Tolstoy's "The Gospel in Brief" where he goes over the despair he felt when he was an Atheist, to the point where he became quite suicidal, realizing the utter purposelessness and absurdity of life under an Atheistic worldview. For whatever reason this strip has a Tolstoy feel to it. Been awhile since I've read anything written by him though.

Quite an insightful book. Even though I disagree with some of his philosophical conclusions, the questions that lead to those conclusions are worth investigating.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby willpellmn » Fri May 24, 2013 5:56 am UTC

I grew up instinctively accepting "sticks and stones", I still believe it's true on a gut level, and I think this is the first time since my early teenage that I've ever seen any evidence that anyone but me had ever heard of it. Granted, Randal is siding with the people who I always end up in arguments with, because they think it's oh so unbearable that I said something slightly insensitive to them, but at least he's referencing the phrase, which nobody seems to have even heard of any more, and when I grew up it was "common sense" and "conventional wisdom" and nobody ever seemed to even question it.

Sigh...I should change my avatar to Marv, from Sin City....

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby DBPZ » Fri May 24, 2013 5:57 am UTC

Freiberg wrote:Alt Text: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can make me think I deserved it."


This is exactly what happened in the communist countries.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri May 24, 2013 6:16 am UTC

Shit, the alt text is giving me feels.

This wasn't supposed to happen.
Image
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby NotAllThere » Fri May 24, 2013 7:20 am UTC

Sticks and stones may break my bones
But words can break my heart
yangosplat wrote:So many amazing quotes, so little room in 300 characters!

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Selcouth » Fri May 24, 2013 7:22 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Shit, the alt text is giving me feels.

This wasn't supposed to happen.


Yeah, man, this comic is just a punch to the feels. Is Randall getting sentimental or something?
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby hughperkins » Fri May 24, 2013 7:28 am UTC

I'm just waiting for someone to notice that the cartoon contains the word "literally" :twisted:

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby da Doctah » Fri May 24, 2013 7:33 am UTC

Sticks and stones may break my bones,
But you should see what kind of damage I can do with a cricket bat.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby biomatter » Fri May 24, 2013 7:43 am UTC

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can make me think I deserved it.


Too dark too fast, abort abort abort.

Also, this thread is very quickly turning into a parody-rhyme thread.
<> Biomatter <>

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby shashwat986 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:46 am UTC

Whoa! This.. this hurts me where I feel *manly sniff*
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby orthogon » Fri May 24, 2013 10:44 am UTC

hughperkins wrote:I'm just waiting for someone to notice that the cartoon contains the word "literally" :twisted:

Hey, anyone noticed it contains the word "literally"?

Also, I love the punctuation: there are question marks on more or less every utterance from the kid (to simulate upspeak? Or just to emphasize their incredulity?). So when the kid wants to ask a proper direct question he/she has to add an exclamation mark to emphasize it. Could this be a case for the interrobang?
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Kit. » Fri May 24, 2013 11:04 am UTC

Duh.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Diadem » Fri May 24, 2013 11:20 am UTC

I prefer the diplomat's version:

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but my words will make you throw them at someone else.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Ekaros » Fri May 24, 2013 11:26 am UTC

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can get me killed.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Dan Graham » Fri May 24, 2013 11:27 am UTC

I'd just like to point out how similar this is to a classic doonesbury strip: starts off with accepted assumption, next panel a question is raised about said assumption, panel of pause of dramatic effect, and finish with sarcastic/sad/funny resolution.

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Selcouth
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Selcouth » Fri May 24, 2013 11:58 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
hughperkins wrote:I'm just waiting for someone to notice that the cartoon contains the word "literally" :twisted:

Hey, anyone noticed it contains the word "literally"?

Also, I love the punctuation: there are question marks on more or less every utterance from the kid (to simulate upspeak? Or just to emphasize their incredulity?). So when the kid wants to ask a proper direct question he/she has to add an exclamation mark to emphasize it. Could this be a case for the interrobang?


Well, it's accurate on both of those counts.... kids do do that often.
"But I've never seen the Icarus story as a lesson about the limitations of humans... I see it as a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive."

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Mokurai » Fri May 24, 2013 1:10 pm UTC

You Can't Say You Can't Play, by Vivian Gussin Paley, gets into the hurts of kindergarten, and all the reasons given for perpetuating them, and suggests a remedy.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby VectorZero » Fri May 24, 2013 1:31 pm UTC

I remember that even as children we were aware of the inanity of such a phrase. It's one part of my daughter growing up I'm not looking forward to.

The subversion I recall went "Sticks and stones just break your bones; names will rip your heart out."
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby UniqueScreenname » Fri May 24, 2013 1:47 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Shit, the alt text is giving me feels.

This wasn't supposed to happen.
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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby WriteBrainedJR » Fri May 24, 2013 1:58 pm UTC

willpellmn wrote:I grew up instinctively accepting "sticks and stones", I still believe it's true on a gut level, and I think this is the first time since my early teenage that I've ever seen any evidence that anyone but me had ever heard of it. Granted, Randal is siding with the people who I always end up in arguments with, because they think it's oh so unbearable that I said something slightly insensitive to them, but at least he's referencing the phrase, which nobody seems to have even heard of any more, and when I grew up it was "common sense" and "conventional wisdom" and nobody ever seemed to even question it.

Sigh...I should change my avatar to Marv, from Sin City....

I agree with all of this post.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby doxin » Fri May 24, 2013 2:08 pm UTC

somewhat related for those who haven't seen it yet: youtube. com/watch?v=ltun92DfnPY ( I am not allowed to post links it seems)

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby musicgeek » Fri May 24, 2013 2:31 pm UTC

The alt text needs to be made into a simple plain-text poster and prominently displayed in every educational methods classroom in every college with a teacher training program. Seriously.

(Also, probably in seminaries. And medical schools. And wherever future parents would be likely to see it.)

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri May 24, 2013 2:32 pm UTC

It's hard to stop sticks and stones from breaking your bones (well, not being there or having heavy padding works) while we have a lot more (though not complete) control over how words affect us.

The idea behind the phrase is to armour someone against psychological attacks - like Dumbo's magic feather let him fly - but its effectiveness varies.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby San Fran Sam » Fri May 24, 2013 3:15 pm UTC

hughperkins wrote:I'm just waiting for someone to notice that the cartoon contains the word "literally" :twisted:


I don't have a problem with it because it is used in the form of a question. The kid is asking if feeling happy or sad is literally the only thing that matters. Now that i think about it you don't even need the word literally in the comic.

Now that i think about it even more, i wonder if you ever need to use the word literally except for emphasis. Now figuratively you definitely need otherwise the interpretation by default is literally.

I'll stop now and crawl into a rabbet hole. because i am betting this entire post was covered in the "Literally" comic a few years back.

Nevermind.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby MadH » Fri May 24, 2013 3:33 pm UTC

I always disliked the "Sticks and stones..." phrase because it implies that verbal/emotional abuse is not as damaging as physical abuse. That's not particularly true at all. We have suicides to prove it.

There's also the people that say "you only feel bad if you let people make you feel bad", but I feel like that's a concept beyond the emotional ability of children (who are probably most likely to be verbally/emotionally abused and therefore would "benefit" most from such a phrase). And frankly, people shouldn't have to take the passive stance their whole life. We should be telling the assholes that abuse others that what they're doing needs to stop rather than just shrugging it off every single time.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby WriteBrainedJR » Fri May 24, 2013 3:58 pm UTC

MadH wrote:I always disliked the "Sticks and stones..." phrase because it implies that verbal/emotional abuse is not as damaging as physical abuse. That's not particularly true at all. We have suicides to prove it.

You don't get that saying at all. It's not something people say to other people. It's something people say to themselves. It's a mantra. People use it to strengthen themselves. That can only be a good thing. These newer versions just encourage a victim mentality.

There are about twice as many suicides as murders annually, but suicides caused by verbal abuse are a statistical rarity; they're just the ones that make the news. On the other hand, murder is always by definition some kind of physical violence.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Blake » Fri May 24, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

San Fran Sam wrote:Now that i think about it even more, i wonder if you ever need to use the word literally except for emphasis. Now figuratively you definitely need otherwise the interpretation by default is literally.


I think you would use literally in a case where the situation you were describing seems improbable, especially if it is something that's used as a metaphor. IE- if someone was attempting to get a bunch of horses to push a cart instead of pulling it, you might say that "He literally put the cart in front of the horses." Or, if someone had been playing adolescent pranks at the theater "We were literally glued to our seats the whole show."

MadH wrote:I always disliked the "Sticks and stones..." phrase because it implies that verbal/emotional abuse is not as damaging as physical abuse. That's not particularly true at all. We have suicides to prove it.

There's also the people that say "you only feel bad if you let people make you feel bad", but I feel like that's a concept beyond the emotional ability of children (who are probably most likely to be verbally/emotionally abused and therefore would "benefit" most from such a phrase). And frankly, people shouldn't have to take the passive stance their whole life. We should be telling the assholes that abuse others that what they're doing needs to stop rather than just shrugging it off every single time.


To paraphrase a blogger I enjoy, sure, it's all in my head, but my head is where I live.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Fri May 24, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

I've tried variations on that talk with my kids, and I could tell from their expressions they thought it was bullshit, and they could probably tell from my expression that I thought it was, too.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Klear » Fri May 24, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

San Fran Sam wrote:Now that i think about it even more, i wonder if you ever need to use the word literally except for emphasis. Now figuratively you definitely need otherwise the interpretation by default is literally.


There are cases where figurative sense is the default one.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Fri May 24, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
San Fran Sam wrote:Now that i think about it even more, i wonder if you ever need to use the word literally except for emphasis. Now figuratively you definitely need otherwise the interpretation by default is literally.


There are cases where figurative sense is the default one.

I see what you mean.

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby kritzikratzi » Fri May 24, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

in case anyone missed it:

[...]that rhyme about sticks and stones
as if broken bones
hurt more than the names we got called
and we got called them all


from the to this day project (starts at 1:19) youtube /watch?v=ltun92DfnPY (sorry, can't link)

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby eran_rathan » Fri May 24, 2013 5:27 pm UTC

Words can break bones too.


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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby JohnTheWysard » Fri May 24, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

As swords were made to do harm, they did well to make them tongue shaped.

- Sufi saying

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Re: 1216: "Sticks and Stones"

Postby Klear » Fri May 24, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

JohnTheWysard wrote:As swords were made to do harm, they did well to make them tongue shaped.

- Sufi saying


Nice, but a pen is still more powerful.


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