1916: "Temperature Preferences"

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby pogrmman » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:38 am UTC

I like this comic. I’m definitely the “loves heat, hates cold” kind of person. I love a long, hot summer with lots of sun. Though I did decide to go to college in Iowa, which is really cold (it’s still weird to me that it can remain below freezing for so long). Supposedly last winter yet was one of the warmest, least snowy ones on record. It was frigid!

Somebody higher up in the thread mentioned how they’ve got summers where it’s like 15°C in the day. I don’t think I could live in such a place! That’s not summer at all! (Though for the record, my hometown (Austin) has long, hot summers, so I’m biased towards that).

Admittedly, I’d say the placement of some of the cities is off. I don’t think Guangzhou ever freezes, but Houston does every year. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average temperatures are similar though. (There are some problems with comparing places by average temperature — even if you look at average highs and lows. In a place with a strongly continental influenced climate (like Austin or Houston), the temperature isn’t all that stable — especially in the winter. It can be pretty erratic — like a 60° day followed by a 25° night (though that big of a difference is fairly unusual) (It turns out I’m not misremembering there being bigger differences in the past! Just last winter, we had a day with a high of 80° and a low of 28°!). This differs a lot from places with a less contentinental climate (either because they are by the ocean or have mountains blocking some of the cold or a whole host of other reasons))

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby armandoalvarez » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:26 am UTC

Surprised San Diego wasn't on the list because it's probably the U.S. city most known for "If you hate heat and cold..."

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Ingolifs » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:54 am UTC

teelo wrote:Woah woah woah. Wellington doesn't have cold winters? Did someone forget to tell the climate around where I live?
I think what happened was someone forgot to tell you that rarely if ever going below freezing isn't a cold winter.[/quote]

To jump on the wellington bandwagon:

Yes most of the time winter isn't that bad - I usually stay in shirt and shorts year round. However when a strong southerly fresh from antarctica rolls through, you'll find all the warmth stripped from you regardless.

Also, and this is more important, new zealanders seem to not believe in insulating their homes. If you're a poor student, you'll most likely spend the entire winter never quite being warm enough.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby orthogon » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:07 am UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:Quito must be way up in the mountains or something, considering it's the capital of a country literally named after its equatorial location.

I've never been there, but have been to Bogotá, which is only 4.7° N, and 2,640m above sea level. The climate feels very much like England in the springtime: temperatures are between 10°C and the high teens: it can be cold and rainy or pleasant and sunny. However, given the latitude and the thinner atmosphere, when the sun is out it's presumably just as harmful, if not even more so, than it is anywhere else in the tropics.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby madfrog » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:13 am UTC

keithl wrote: places with "boring" wet weather like Portland Oregon.


I was wondering whether he meant Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine. Sometimes those east coasters assume Maine when clearly Oregon has the Portland most worth talking about.

How could we know which Portland he meant in the comic?

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby metamorphosis » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:50 am UTC

Wellington is incorrect. Auckland, maybe.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby fluffysheap » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:54 am UTC

Hate heat. If it's cold, you can dress warmly. If it's hot, you... can be hot.

I live in Denver, so that suits me fine. It's not on the chart, but Salt Lake City is, and the overall climate is similar.

Also not on the chart are the weather swings inherent to semi-arid climates. Earlier this fall we had an 80 degree day, followed by two inches of snow that night. This is not extraordinary.

Edit : wait, Salt Lake City is a lot farther right than I thought. It's definitely cooler in the summer here than Omaha or Kansas City, or at least drier. There might not be a good match on the chart.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:31 pm UTC

madfrog wrote:
keithl wrote: places with "boring" wet weather like Portland Oregon.


I was wondering whether he meant Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine. Sometimes those east coasters assume Maine when clearly Oregon has the Portland most worth talking about.

How could we know which Portland he meant in the comic?

Naw, clearly he meant the Portland neighborhood of Louisville, KY.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:50 pm UTC

Obviously the Portland world-famous for the stone and the Bill;)

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:14 pm UTC

zjxs wrote:From the chart it seems that Sao Paulo, Brisbane, Perth, and LA are the best cities in the world, climate-wise.
Only if you hate cold winters and don't mind fairly warm/hot summers.

metamorphosis wrote:Wellington is incorrect. Auckland, maybe.

Auckland would be a bit up and to the right of Wellington, but it's in the right circle because Randall seems to be counting humidity but not windchill.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby MaestroTheRanger » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:51 pm UTC

Having spent a winter "On Ice". Whoever thinks McMurdo is cold, has never been to Amundsen-Scott.......

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby teelo » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:41 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:I think what happened was someone forgot to tell you that rarely if ever going below freezing isn't a cold winter.

I guess living on the hills around Wellington doesn't count as living in Wellington? Cause it certainly does go below freezing at my place.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Stargazer71 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:21 pm UTC

I'm curious what motivated his city selection.

I mean, seriously, a few cities from the US that are included:

Lubbock
Casper
Flagstaff


A few cities that aren't included:

Denver
Seattle
San Diego
Phoenix


What?

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby freezeblade » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:17 pm UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:Surprised San Diego wasn't on the list because it's probably the U.S. city most known for "If you hate heat and cold..."


What? Downtown San Diego gets over 100F quite often in summers, so I don't know how that qualifies as "if you hate heat." Most of San Diego county is high desert or scrubland.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby teelo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:16 am UTC

Was just looking at the explainxkcd article, it has a nice table with the temperate ranges for each city. However the author thinks "Oceania" is a continent...

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:17 am UTC

If anything, it's an anti-continent.

:P

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby teelo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:21 am UTC

Indeed. New Zealand isn't part of any continent. Its just a bunch of islands. Its continent should be blank. And Australia is a continent all to itself.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:28 am UTC

New Zealand is its own continent, just most of it is underwater.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby gormster » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:11 am UTC

Holy fucking shit, Turpan! Average summer high of 40℃, average winter low of −12℃. That's fucking insanity.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby armandoalvarez » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:32 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:
armandoalvarez wrote:Surprised San Diego wasn't on the list because it's probably the U.S. city most known for "If you hate heat and cold..."


What? Downtown San Diego gets over 100F quite often in summers, so I don't know how that qualifies as "if you hate heat." Most of San Diego county is high desert or scrubland.

Going off of Randall's source monthly average highs in San Diego in the summer are never above 76.4F. It would be left on the chart of Mexico City. Although I guess you'd need to know more statistical data than weatherbase.com provides.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby dis astranagant » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:54 am UTC

I'm from around Kansas City and have learned to hate both. Heat index well in the triple digits most of the summer and early fall, wind and ice many winters. And the odd blizzard when it feels like it. Tornado sirens whenever it damn well pleases, too.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby pogrmman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:35 am UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:I'm curious what motivated his city selection.

I mean, seriously, a few cities from the US that are included:

Lubbock
Casper
Flagstaff


A few cities that aren't included:

Denver
Seattle
San Diego
Phoenix


What?


I'm surprised by Lubbock's placement -- it does get pretty hot in the summer (maybe its so far to the left because its drier?).

With regards to missing cities, out of the top 20 US metros, there's:
Chicago, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Riverside (though that's part of the LA CSA), Detroit, Seattle, Tampa, and Denver.

Out of the top 20 world metros, there's only two missing, Shenzhen and Osaka.

Looking at the other cities on the map, I've heard of all but Shenyang, Jinzhou, Qiqihar, Hailar, Yumen, Altay, and Da Qaidam. I don't necessarily know why I've heard of them the other cities (but I could probably tell you in what region they all are), so I guess they all have some degree of significance. Certainly more than Lubbock.

Heck, I'd say Lubbock is the least important city on this comic! I'm really puzzled about why its on this map. It has literally nothing going for it. At least Flagstaff has the Grand Canyon and Casper had the eclipse this year. Most other smaller cities on the map are capitals or have tourist attractions. Lubbock has nothing. It's flat and smells like cow. Sure, Texas Tech is there. That's about it.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Locoluis » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:25 am UTC

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Steko » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:08 pm UTC

zjxs wrote:From the chart it seems that Sao Paulo, Brisbane, Perth, and LA are the best cities in the world, climate-wise.

As someone who lives in Honolulu, my takeaway was that heat index is a terrible gauge of climate quality. I demand a revised comic based on wet bulb temperatures:

http://www.weather.gov/tsa/wbgt

https://wrcc.dri.edu/climatedata/climta ... stcomp.wb/

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Sableagle » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:28 pm UTC



This map is no help at all in determining whether I should move to Ste Enimie
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Locoluis » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:24 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:This map is no help at all in determining whether I should move to Ste Enimie... or Sabugueiro.


Indeed. Perhaps a web-based city/place lookup should do.

(And even then, CRU CL data has a resolution of 10 minutes; it certainly won't be accurate in mountainous places with lots of microclimates)
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby freezeblade » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:41 pm UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:Going off of Randall's source monthly average highs in San Diego in the summer are never above 76.4F. It would be left on the chart of Mexico City. Although I guess you'd need to know more statistical data than weatherbase.com provides.


It had been a bit since I lived there (close to downtown, so there's also the heat island affect to rise temps more), but "summer" which is actually August-September weather-wise in San Diego, gets (according to another online temp monitoring source) over 90 Degrees about 12 times during those two months (bit more than once a week), which I think most will agree is pretty hot (especially as most houses still don't have AC).
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby pogrmman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
armandoalvarez wrote:Going off of Randall's source monthly average highs in San Diego in the summer are never above 76.4F. It would be left on the chart of Mexico City. Although I guess you'd need to know more statistical data than weatherbase.com provides.


It had been a bit since I lived there (close to downtown, so there's also the heat island affect to rise temps more), but "summer" which is actually August-September weather-wise in San Diego, gets (according to another online temp monitoring source) over 90 Degrees about 12 times during those two months (bit more than once a week), which I think most will agree is pretty hot (especially as most houses still don't have AC).


It’s probably just based on where the weather station is — closer to the coast — not as hot.

That is pretty hot, but it certainly doesn’t belong in the “loves heat” category. It’s not hot enough frequently enough for that. According to NOAA, over the past 30 years, the part of the San Diego area not right by the ocean averages 15 days a year with a high over 90°. For comparison, that statistic for downtown LA is 25 times per year. By that metric, it belongs pretty much smack dab in the middle of the heat spectrum, and at the “hates cold” part of the cold spectrum. Additional data is spoilers here:
Spoiler:
For the US cities in the “hates cold” part of the spectrum that are also in “loves heat”, that number is over 100. (Raleigh and Atlanta are both around 50, but aren’t quite in that cateogry). For the one in the “hates both” category, it’s 4.


I personally think that 90°- 95°in San Diego is pretty pleasant. San Diego has a wonderful climate — not too hot or too cold in any sense. Sure, most places don’t have AC, but it’s pretty dry when it’s hot there, so going into the shade helps. While I haven’t spent a whole lot of time there, from what I remember, the temperature drops quite a lot at night, so you aren’t stuck with heat all day.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby armandoalvarez » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:01 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:It had been a bit since I lived there (close to downtown, so there's also the heat island affect to rise temps more), but "summer" which is actually August-September weather-wise in San Diego, gets (according to another online temp monitoring source) over 90 Degrees about 12 times during those two months (bit more than once a week), which I think most will agree is pretty hot (especially as most houses still don't have AC).

Perhaps Randall should have looked at variability at each of these cities rather than simply averages, but if you click the link, the average high for San Diego in August and September is 76 degrees, which means that it is to the left of Mexico City although not by much. And looking at this September and August, I count 3 days in San Diego in the 90s. With the possible exception of the cities on the equator, pretty much every city on here is going to have a few hot or cold days per year and a few bad years with heat waves or cold snaps.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby pogrmman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:08 pm UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:
freezeblade wrote:It had been a bit since I lived there (close to downtown, so there's also the heat island affect to rise temps more), but "summer" which is actually August-September weather-wise in San Diego, gets (according to another online temp monitoring source) over 90 Degrees about 12 times during those two months (bit more than once a week), which I think most will agree is pretty hot (especially as most houses still don't have AC).

Perhaps Randall should have looked at variability at each of these cities rather than simply averages, but if you click the link, the average high for San Diego in August and September is 76 degrees, which means that it is to the left of Mexico City although not by much. And looking at this September and August, I count 3 days in San Diego in the 90s. With the possible exception of the cities on the equator, pretty much every city on here is going to have a few hot or cold days per year and a few bad years with heat waves or cold snaps.


One note — that data from San Diego is probably from the airport, which being by the ocean, doesn’t get as hot as the rest of the city.

I think it would’ve been better to compare by number of days above or below a certain threshold. That information is pretty readily available for US cities on the NOAA website, and it’ll even give you the averages over a long period. Like I mentioned early, Houston isn’t really comparable to Guangzhou — the former has freezes every year, while the latter very rarely does. Variability in the climate lays a really big role.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby freezeblade » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:47 pm UTC

Temperature measurements for San Diego are typically done at the airport (as noted above), which is directly next to the water, in a microclimate that is unrepresentative of San Diego as a city, especally the downtown area (https://goo.gl/maps/rsc2oksqqHv). Actual temps are much warmer throughout the downtown and surrounding areas, sometimes 10+ degrees, and much more, the further you move inland.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Eutychus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:57 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:Temperature measurements for San Diego...
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby YTPrenewed » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:51 pm UTC

Reminds me of the "Canada's too cold" thing. People who say that don't always specify whether it's the mild summers or cold winters that deter them (though I'm guessing it's the latter) but Osoyoos has hot summers and the west coast of BC has mild winters... how much warmer do they want?

That said, there's hardly anywhere you can go to avoid both warm summers and cold winters. And with highland cities like Addis Ababa, Quito, and Bogota, the tradeoff is that the UV index is very high. San Francisco and Wellington are on the outer edge of that category... and perhaps that might be part of why San Francisco is so expensive... and New Zealand is known for earthquakes. (Then again, San Francisco gets them too, it just happens to already be famous for other things.)

And if you walk on eggshells to avoid warm summers and UV rays alike, you're either limited to the coasts; which are known to be vulnerable to either earthquakes, tsunamis, or hurricanes, depending on the coast; or will have to go so far from the tropics that the winters are blistering cold... for only a slight decrease in how warm the summers are anyway. I feel like there must be a number of issues for which that could be used as a metaphor, but I'm not sure where to start.

Honestly, I didn't much mind being in Toronto during early September, but that's because Toronto is at least air conditioned. Warm, humid air for the few minutes you're outdoors is easier to handle than warm, humid air for hours on end.

The question is how to deal with farming. We can't all live in air-conditioned cities. At least not yet. Someone or something will have to grow our crops. The question is, will it be robots, will it be farmers in air-conditioned farming vehicles, or will we end up growing food indoors?

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby ysth » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:09 am UTC

Image
A math joke: r = | |csc(θ)|+|sec(θ)| |-| |csc(θ)|-|sec(θ)| |

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:36 am UTC

YTPrenewed wrote:And if you walk on eggshells to avoid warm summers and UV rays alike, you're either limited to the coasts; which are known to be vulnerable to either earthquakes, tsunamis, or hurricanes, depending on the coast; or will have to go so far from the tropics that the winters are blistering cold... for only a slight decrease in how warm the summers are anyway. I feel like there must be a number of issues for which that could be used as a metaphor, but I'm not sure where to start.
The Western Europe doesn't have significant earthquakes, tsunamis or significant hurricanes. We do have a coastal climate with the temperature varying by latitude.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Sableagle » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:50 pm UTC

Original comic may require data timestamp.

Image

Image

Quite a shift of the boundary on the coldest zone there, and we can expect further changes, can't we?
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:59 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Quite a shift of the boundary on the coldest zone there, and we can expect further changes, can't we?

And don't forget...

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby DavidSh » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:09 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote: The Western Europe doesn't have significant earthquakes, tsunamis or significant hurricanes. We do have a coastal climate with the temperature varying by latitude.


I understand Lisbon had a big earthquake once, but it was quite some time ago.

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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:50 pm UTC

I learned today that there's some place in Finland which is like, the least likely place in the world to ever be hit by any kind of natural disaster.

So naturally, they're planning to store nuclear waste there.
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Re: 1916: "Temperature Preferences"

Postby jdc » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:01 am UTC

Sableagle wrote:
markfiend wrote:I'm assuming that Halifax refers to the one in Nova Scotia rather than the one in the People's Republic of Yorkshire. We're not that much colder than that there London up 'ere.

Bradford, Yorkshire, is not listed.

It's titled "where to live" so of course Bradford, Yorkshire, is not listed.

Bradford's a great place to live.

(My sole criterion is "cheap housing", to be fair.)
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