The Gojoe Memorial Mafia Discussion Thread

[Sabrar]

Newbie New Year

Spoiler:

Based on past experience jimbob must be Town because I find him scummy.
Whatever, won't stop.

Edit: out of all the players I imagine BoomFrog would be the only one bold enough to bus a team-mate when not needed, hoping for credit later. If it were anyone else I would have already cleared them.

[Peaceful Whale]

@Vic
NNY

Spoiler:

Yeah, sorry about that... well, at least we got rid of a confirmed towny!

Spoiler:

I didn't even breadcrumb anything, apparently scum killed me because I kept mentioning the Doctor when I was talking about NL was bad. What can you do.

I'll have to keep up the tone next game, I think I was playing more aggressive than I might normally otherwise just because I knew I could safely avoid the lynch if anyone tried to push it on me by claiming. Of course, everyone ended up seeing me as town and I got NKed. Ah well.

[Peaceful Whale]

NNY

Spoiler:

I’m causing so much confusion....
Well, one of my scum mates is safe, they can probably get a LG or *possibly* a boomfrog lynch.

[cemper93]

NNY

Spoiler:

Seriously though, what in the Lord's name is wrong with everybody. Why do you produce so much content? Back when I played here more regularly, an entire game of 4+ days could be about half as long as D1 only from this game. I think unless there's any indication this is going to revert, this will be the last game of Mafia I will be playing on XKCDia for quite a while. Doesn't nobody have time for this.

[wam]

NNY

Spoiler:

Seriously though, what in the Lord's name is wrong with everybody. Why do you produce so much content? Back when I played here more regularly, an entire game of 4+ days could be about half as long as D1 only from this game. I think unless there's any indication this is going to revert, this will be the last game of Mafia I will be playing on XKCDia for quite a while. Doesn't nobody have time for this.

NNY (Cemper may read no other active players)

Spoiler:

It seems to be standard these days and personally I like having more content. I wonder if that feeds into DEVA's statistics above that we are more successful D1 than we used to be. I don't know why or when it changed, although I do wonder if its due to less games. By having less games the active players, who would play multiple instead focus on the one game.

Also this game has been higher than normal, for example secret santa (admittedly only 10 players) had a D1 of 10 pages. Half of those 10 pages were Sabrar and I arguing!

PS having skimmed the game you linked to I had forgotten how bad my reputation was back then. Not for playing for grammer!

[Deva]

Newbie New Years

Spoiler:

Investigated Day 1 posts. Counted posts between (but not including) the Day Start and Day End posts. Included moderator posts. (Balloons time spent otherwise.)

Code: Select all

                       Game              Player   Alignment D1.Posts Players Posts.Per.Player
1    Smalltown Werewolf PYP            Opus_723       Mafia      294      26            11.31
2           Ghost III Mafia           moody7277       Mafia       16       5             3.20
3         2015 Secret Santa               Madge       Mafia      182      14            13.00
4      Alternating 9P Mafia         emlightened        Town       72       9             8.00
5           Dollhouse Mafia         freezeblade        Town       70      10             7.00
6               PyPokemon 2              Sabrar       Mafia      127       9            14.11
7             Wheel of Time               Madge        Town      179      10            17.90
8      Shakespeare Mafia II heuristically_alone        Town       81       8            10.12
9            Pen Pals Mafia        Djehutynakht       Mafia      139      10            13.90
10                   FAC668          Carlington        Town       69       9             7.67
11     Trial of the Pariahs              ConMan        Town      104      12             8.67
12          Impromptu Mafia              Sabrar Independent      131       8            16.38
13        Secret Santa 2016          RoadieRich       Mafia      110      14             7.86
14                   MMM II           Adnapemit Independent      230      12            19.17
15          Wheel of Time 2               Diemo Independent      106      12             8.83
16             Diablo Mafia  JustDanceUnlimited        Town      174      15            11.60
17           The Dark Tower            dimochka        Town      153      13            11.77
18    Shakespeare Mafia III         Dethstalker       Mafia      297      16            18.56
19 Bin Chicken Newbie Mafia         Dethstalker        Town      117       9            13.00
20              X-Men Mafia            LaserGuy       Mafia      245       9            27.22
21       Refrigerator Mafia              plytho       Mafia      279       9            31.00
22  Werewolf of Wall Street      Peaceful Whale        Town      182       9            20.22
23          Crossover Mafia           moody7277       Mafia      930      20            46.50
24        Secret Santa 2017                 wam        Town      343      10            34.30


Note: Reversed the order from last time.

Notices high posts per player recently. Finds all top five (in this timeframe) in the last five games. Managed that despite (mostly) low player count games.

Created a graph too. Wanted to see lynch results along with posts per player.

Mafia 2017 D1 PPP Graph PNG.png (9.26 KiB) Viewed 1321 times

Mean posts per player in a Mafia lynch: 18.666 posts
Mean posts per player in a Town lynch: 13.659 posts

Median posts per player in a Mafia lynch: 14.005 posts
Median posts per player in a Town lynch: 11.600 posts

Appears to benefit Town. May be skewed by number of players, though. Posts more with more players.

Mafia 2017 D1 Players Count Graph PNG.png (8.76 KiB) Viewed 1321 times

Notched 8 Town lynches in 10 player (and under) games. Could simply be higher successful lynch odds in large games.

[bessie]

Newbie New Year Mafia

Spoiler:

Wow, did Deva respond to this post already?

The idea would be to save obviscum for later when a mislynch can lose the g a m e for town. There’s been a bit of discussion about this strategy the past, but I’m not recalling where, so it may be from quite long ago before I was playing and was still lurking.

Or is there something else interesting going on?

[Deva]

Newbie New Year Mafia

Spoiler:

No. Might as well, though. Page 4 of Shakespeare Mafia III, probably.

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

I can't believe that there's discussion about not lynching almost certain scum immediately. Saving them until LYLO doesn't delay it happening at all, you're less likely to lynch other town in the meantime due to NKs happening, and finally, there's either a Tracker or Watcher in the game. Both of these are completely useless if scum just makes the obvious lynch candidate perform the kill!

Aaarggg

[bessie]

Newbie New Year Mafia

Spoiler:

Well all right! I get to add an item to the list in this post. Yea me! Wall, meet my face. Again.

Blanket apology in Newbie New Year for being overly aggressive.

Ok, plan going forward, stop being so argumentative and belligerent.

Shit, there goes the BoomFrog read I have been working on for the past couple hours.


And Deva, my previous Gojoe post was a bit of a joke! You usually don’t join in unless someone asks you a question, or someone can’t find a post or statistic they want to cite, or there is a request for modding advice. I hope you didn’t feel that you needed to find that reference! (But thank you! We’re all pretty darn impressed by your ability to find these things and pretty darn grateful that you watch over us!)

Now I’ll feel silly if those posts were about something else and not me me me!

[wam]

NNY

Spoiler:

Should I take bessie out her misery?

Also reviewing the statistics I am not sure what they say, will require further study!

[Peaceful Whale]

NNY

Spoiler:

Should I take bessie out her misery?

Also reviewing the statistics I am not sure what they say, will require further study!

Spoiler:

Can you clarify this?
???
Are you going to mod kill her?

[Peaceful Whale]

Also:
(Doesn’t need to be spoiled)
Is my new sig accurate?

[wam]

NNY

Spoiler:

Should I take bessie out her misery?

Also reviewing the statistics I am not sure what they say, will require further study!

Spoiler:

Can you clarify this?
???
Are you going to mod kill her?

NNY

Spoiler:

No I wouldnt do that. I meant she thinks Deva is looking at the not lynching known scum thing, rather than the post count question.

[LaserGuy]

NNY

Spoiler:

Very busy in GoJoe this game.

Hopefully when I flip town people will stop bothering me about Shakespeare. I had never played town before so yes I did some stupid stuff. But I tunnel every game.
I haven't been scum since last July actually.

[jimbobmacdoodle]

Newbie New Year:

Spoiler:

Madge isn't a PR. She's stated that she's going to flip town, and is expecting to be lynched, but if she is PR, she won't get lynched (unless there's a counter-claim, which I doubt there will be if she is town and she claims today). If she does claim PR, I'm going to almost certainly vote her if there is a counter-claim, for this reason.

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

I am frankly astounded that anyone is buying cemper's 'townslip' over the night chat.
How the hell would scum choose the nightkill if there's no night chat and there's a last minute bandwagon??? You know, like what happened. Sure, you could require them to put in a bunch of conditionals for who gets targeted, but then you may as well make the game nightless. And it's not terribly newbie friendly.

I'm also surprised that people are giving Hari townie credit for being on the PW lynch despite Hari explicitly saying they were voting for PW in hope for a NL! Trying to force a NL when the consensus is that a lynch should go through is ridiculously antitown.

If I've read the spoilers correctly, Sabrar is our watcher and BoomFrog is the doctor, but they're not the ones drawing the most suspicion right now, so this is looking kinda bad unless the flip tomorrow gets people on the right path. What will be interesting is who scum NKs, as anyone they kill should reduce their hiding spots a bunch. Hey, maybe BoomFrog can buy another lynch with a successful protect?

Pro tip: if someone pushes for NL with either no justification or an extremely flimsy one (at least Sabrar and Laserguy tried defending the position),
they're pretty likely to be scum. Or, apparently, Madge. I was actually betting she was either scum or a selfish PR who gets info, so finding out she was vanilla... Have to take that into account for future games. Less of an issue in closed games anyway, as with no idea how many kills or powers are going around, NL is just atrocious.

For the record, if the Doctor was guaranteed ineffective in this setup, then NL D1 is fine. But only then, and you should debate over it a bunch beforehand to have more stuff to talk about D2. So no autolynches in future games if I do propose NL D1 plz (if it's an open setup. Closed, go nuts)

That ended up long, but I kind of want to whack some people over the head for what they're not looking at. Probably being really biased too from my cushy spoilered position but aaarggg come on go for the NLers there's both scum in there!

[LaserGuy]

NNY:

Spoiler:

Even if I'm completely wrong, I'm pretty happy with those reads.

Hoping for some fireworks at least.

[somitomi]

NNY

Spoiler:

Dammit, I have sooo much backlog. Sadly I have an exam on Wednesday I really hoped I could pass by now, until then I fear I can't participate much. And the discussion has got to the point where I'd really need to read back to see how things people say square with their previous posts.
Part of me says I should ask for a replacement, the other half says "Do I have to?" in the voice of a five year old.

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

Oh man, where's the popcorn smiley for watching all these fights break out?

Also, elementary school level Mafia play cemper Like having the entire scum team support NL D1? If cemper manages to get Hari lynched because of pointing out Hari's reason for voting PW I think I'm going to die from laughing. Just neverending busses.

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

Aarg PW isn't saying much so this is still a boring popcorn gallery of 1. I want this day to be over so I can discuss what's going on with other people dammit!

[Peaceful Whale]

NNY

Spoiler:

Aarg PW isn't saying much so this is still a boring popcorn gallery of 1. I want this day to be over so I can discuss what's going on with other people dammit!

Spoiler:

Mew?

[LaserGuy]

NNY

Spoiler:

I am disappointed by the lack of fireworks

[wam]

NNY

Spoiler:

Dammit, I have sooo much backlog. Sadly I have an exam on Wednesday I really hoped I could pass by now, until then I fear I can't participate much. And the discussion has got to the point where I'd really need to read back to see how things people say square with their previous posts.
Part of me says I should ask for a replacement, the other half says "Do I have to?" in the voice of a five year old.

NNY (Somi may read)

Spoiler:

We have a replacement if you want, but its you choice

[somitomi]

NNY @wam

Spoiler:

Thanks. The exam is tomorrow morning though, so I'll be able to devote more time to the game after that.

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

Some day scum will fake a scumslip about night chat BoomFrog? Try RIGHT NOW!!!

Honestly, this sort of silliness is why I wouldn't put any stock in town/scumslipping over game mechanics; people get confused over the weirdest things when they're not reading rules closely, and it's not hard for scum to do so as well or fake it. This goes double for questions to the mods, seeing as anyone who wants to remain anonymous can just PM those.

Here I was hoping that Sabrar and BoomFrog were going along the right track, but oh well.
Does noone around here kill townies who are overly suspicious of the scum? Because noone seems to care about my suspicions from D1. Granted, there's a lot more info now, but I'd have thought someone would have copied it at least.

[Peaceful Whale]

NNY

Spoiler:

Granted, there's a lot more info now, but I'd have thought someone would have copied it at least.

Spoiler:

And then get called out for it?
It’s ok, no one is saying that MY suspicions might have had value!

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

Well, when I say copy, I don't mean they just shift suspicions for no reason, I mean they post 'Hey, the NK target was finding these people suspicious, maybe double check them?'.

They probably should look at your lists a bit more anyway even with all the WIFOM, can try to work out if you were trying to distance yourself from anyone. Or try to guess if you're up for bussing.
Fair bit harder to get useful info though.

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

Oh man here comes the Watcher claim what is going oooooooooooon

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

Looks like BoomFrog made the same mistake I did in thinking Madge was Watcher because she wanted PR results so badly. As long as BoomFrog doesn't have to claim, this should probably still be fine, but I'm guessing Madge is going to be lynched today at this rate. That soft claim yesterday is going to be pretty painful today.

[LaserGuy]

NNY

Spoiler:

I should probably just stick to the "LaserGuy is always wrong" theory of reads
So scum is... BoomFrog + Hari Seldon?

And bessie the doctor, of course.

[LaserGuy]

NNY:

Spoiler:

Wait, is it actually Hari Seldon?

[Peaceful Whale]

NNY

Spoiler:

Please, let Laserguy get lynched...
Scum is so close!
(Kinda)
(And no thanks to me )

[Vicarin]

NNY

Spoiler:

I'm not sure if I see Laserguy getting lynched, Madge is almost certainly dead after she claims VT today unless the non-PR claim blows people's minds enough to get them to back off (Sabrar, claiming PRs as scum is pretty terrible when it'll get you killed immediately and the PRs outnumber scum). After she flips town, I'm not sure if there's much reason to go for Laserguy, people seemed to think he was paired with Madge.

I cannot believe people aren't thinking Hari is suspicious, they dropped their post scoring system after 2 posts or so and haven't really had any organised reads since. Also, I can't figure out what the hell their proposed plan is supposed to do.

What should be interesting is, assuming Madge is lynched, who gets targeted by the NK. Doctor is almost certainly targeting Sabrar, and he'll probably target Somitomi (scum doesn't know it's ineffective heh), but there's a decent chance of them sniping the doctor just by going for townies pushing the discussion forwards.

I think a successful save would almost certainly be a win for town now (extra mislynches are good yo) and if not, it'll be close depending on what happens tomorrow.

I really want to hear Madge's thoughts on all my commentary now...

[Vicarin]

NNY @Madge AFTER GAME

Spoiler:

Well, it's looking like you're the next addition to the popcorn gallery (this game is HILARIOUS if this doesn't happen at this point, but hey, PW got lynched D1). On the offchance you read this first before other spoilers, want to guess the setup?

Also, I don't think you can say anyone's wrong to suspect you. If you start pushing for NL on D1 saying that you want PR results in a setup where it's incredibly unlikely that any useful ones are obtained, then it looks bad. It made slightly more sense if you were a PR yourself, making it so you'd have info without claiming, but now that softclaim has set off alarms now the info PRs are all known. I may have been extra wary of you D1 because the only one you could be was watcher, but it was getting somewhat believable later.

Hopefully you'll join me in commenting on this train wreck

[LaserGuy]

NNY

Spoiler:

So... mislynch? Madge was completely stonewalling us on information, which looks promising, but... meh, I don't feel good about this.

[Madge]

NNY pre-spoiler reading

Spoiler:

I'm gonna say BoomFrog and Flicky. Not sure why. Just a feeling.

[Peaceful Whale]

NNY pre-spoiler reading

Spoiler:

I'm gonna say BoomFrog and Flicky. Not sure why. Just a feeling.

Spoiler:

Ouch...

[Madge]

(All my spoilers below are NNY spoilers and are actual real spoilers so don't read until you're allowed to read spoilers)

NeNeYe

Spoiler:

Not really a spoiler for the game, but I think this is exactly the sort of set-up where a mass-cop-claim would be useful. (The idea is that you get every player on D2 to claim a cop result, thus allowing the result of the real cop to be public knowledge without the cop automatically becoming the N2 target. And then you repeat for subsequent days until the cop is dead.) Of course, there is 50% chance that in this game the cop is naive, in which case it is mostly wasted effort. But if the cop reported a scum result, that would be solid.

Pro: allows the cop's results to be shared safe(ish)ly

Con: helps scum find the cop (scum knows that anyone who posts an inaccurate result is not the real cop)

Spoiler:

This is something that we've done in the past on occaision: it's hard though because in practise the townies, to adequately fake being cop, need to post a target that they would have theoretically picked *as cop* and then have them as confirmed townie for the rest of the game.

NNY

Spoiler:

Scum is:

Peaceful whale
Laserguy
cemper

mark my words!!!!!

Spoiler:

I could have been right about this.... shiiiiit... 2/3... what's Laserguy's alignment?? Oh me yarm

... okay laserguy is townie but shit i got 2 scum with my joke "this is my scum list" post... fuuuck

NNY

Spoiler:

This whole "PeacefulWhale faked to sleep and was actually waiting for scum chat" thing is annoying me pretty hard, for two reasons: 1. they're fucking wrong, and 2. this is like voting the guy whose chair creaked at night in meatworld mafia.

I ponder if I should voice some similar concerns in-thread and buddy somitomi a little harder than I already am doing. Hey, I think I'll do that.

Also really hoping wam's post does not contain a strategy for scum that I should see, but don't. That would be rather embarassing.

Spoiler:

THANK YOU. I am glad sleepgate was unfounded. It gave me the shits!

NNY

Spoiler:

Damn. I was just waiting for Madges response to my question and then was going to seriously consider redirecting the wagon. Oh well.

75% Madge is watcher, 15% cop 10% tracker

From the fact that wam replied I'm guessing Madge is fed up with the game, especially attacking people for RL time issues. I think there's a bit of misunderstanding going on since Bessie is only attacking PW for saying specifically he's sleeping, when he was actually in school. I agree no one should have to account for their RL time, but lying is a reasonable thing to point out, even if it's lying about RL.

Spoiler:

So.... 0% VT, which I actually was? If only you were scum! I would have done my job.

NNY

Spoiler:

So, I am talking about a hypothetical result that PR!Madge may have had and wondering whether to claim or not.

damnit i wish i was scum i'd use that softclaim PR to ride quite a while and then come up with a guilty result on someone. Maybe pose as doctor and withhold a kill. Something to keep townies guessing

it's been so long since i've been scum that i'm getting desperate!

Spoiler:

Or.... ride until the end of D2

NNY @Madge AFTER GAME

Spoiler:

Well, it's looking like you're the next addition to the popcorn gallery (this game is HILARIOUS if this doesn't happen at this point, but hey, PW got lynched D1). On the offchance you read this first before other spoilers, want to guess the setup?

Also, I don't think you can say anyone's wrong to suspect you. If you start pushing for NL on D1 saying that you want PR results in a setup where it's incredibly unlikely that any useful ones are obtained, then it looks bad. It made slightly more sense if you were a PR yourself, making it so you'd have info without claiming, but now that softclaim has set off alarms now the info PRs are all known. I may have been extra wary of you D1 because the only one you could be was watcher, but it was getting somewhat believable later.

Hopefully you'll join me in commenting on this train wreck

Spoiler:

Eh, I regret nothing. I still think the maths for NL checks out.

NNY

Spoiler:

So... mislynch? Madge was completely stonewalling us on information, which looks promising, but... meh, I don't feel good about this.

Spoiler:

pffft.... me stonewalling you on info is just my meta! also, I really had nothing to go on. At all. Ugh.

[Vicarin]

NNY @Madge

Spoiler:

Well, turns out that the Doctor and Tracker are the effective ones in this setup, so it's the worst case scenario for D1 NL. Only Tracker can get a useful scum result each night, and it has to be the NKing scum. If I'd been sane or something, sure, but in this case, ugh.

I think I'm going to have to make a blanket "I don't breadcrumb" statement when this game is over, seeing how many people think that I breadcrumbed cop when I didn't. Bah.

And stonewalling as a town meta is pretty unhelpful, just say SOMETHING if you're town and going to be lynched. Anything to help the rest of town. Point at my suspects list from D1 (maybe the scum killed me for it? WHY DID NOONE LOOK AT THAT LIST I HAD ALL 3 SCUM ON IT athough it was 6 people). There's a good reason everyone was seeing you as scummier and scummier.

The mass cop claim would actually work better than usual because people faking being cop wouldn't have to act as if their town results are confirmed townie for the rest of the game, because of the 50% naive chance. Would have been interesting trying it, but seeing as I died N1 it never would have had a chance to get off the ground. And probably would have just been everyone saying someone else was reported to be town.

Sleepgate was mostly unfounded, but damn, it was good for seeing people's reactions to it. Lots of good interactions between people, so I was happy to just sit back and watch the fireworks.