Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 3 - An Unexpected Twist)

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Vicarin
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:36 am UTC

Isn't wam just after me in his reads list?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:47 am UTC

Zenii has been prodded.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:56 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Also, moody, those reads don't really explain how they're townier than a claimed vig. Unless you think there's a decent chance that a vig claim could be scum in this setup, and that it would be Madge.


So you're saying I should have her at +10?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:02 pm UTC

Going by my probabilities, that would be pretty reasonable. Why did you have her so low?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:23 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Going by my probabilities, that would be pretty reasonable. Why did you have her so low?


Why do you care so much what I think of Madge? By the time she'd be even a reasonable possibility of a vote, we'd most likely be at LYLO, and more likely I would not be the one making the decision.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:36 pm UTC

Because right now it looks like you're just making up a reads list without thinking it through? I think most other people here put her as most or equal most townie, but you have her way lower. If you can't explain her position on your town-scum list, well, what are we supposed to assume?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:51 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Because right now it looks like you're just making up a reads list without thinking it through? I think most other people here put her as most or equal most townie, but you have her way lower. If you can't explain her position on your town-scum list, well, what are we supposed to assume?


If there are two kills overnight, then she'll be a +10. If scum withhold to try and muddy the waters, that's one less townie dead, which is good as well.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:01 pm UTC

And if she gets unlucky enough to get roleblocked, or at least claims to be? Also, that's dodging the question, seeing as you're not saying how she earned her position on your list, you're giving her future position in hypothetical situations.

I'm not seeing why scum would try to withhold if we're giving Madge a small target list publically, it seems incredibly pointless.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:02 pm UTC

wam wrote:Sorry! Will put my detailed reads list together today.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:08 pm UTC

SuperJedi224 wrote:stuff


SuperJedi, where are you?

I have open questions
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:33 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:Sorry! Will put my detailed reads list together today.

Wam, where are you?!
I actually should have asked this two weeks ago, when I was in south England :)
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:14 pm UTC

Sloppy reads, not finding a lot of energy tonight.

Town:
Plytho
Madge
BoomFrog
Zen

Madge is pretty obvious. I put BoomFrog and Zen there because I don’t see them losing bessie D1 if they’re scum.

Not sure:

Mpolo
Moody

They did make the bessie lynch happen.

Vicarin: Has some great content today and I agree with others that a very strong link isn’t usually a scum indicator.

Scummy and lurky:

Wam: Very lurky D2, lost motivation after bessie was lynched? His bessie vote didn’t really influence the lynch. I also feel like scum would have tried to join the wam wagon considering BoomFrog and Zen were the drivers there.

SuperJedi: disappeared. I liked the improvement in his content D2 but he hasn’t posted in 2 days. I’m annoyed that he didn’t answer my questions because his last post was a couple of hours after I asked them. Beside my speculation about how a bessie-coached SuperJedi would behave I have had no reason to town read him.

Mark: Jumping on Vicarin while ignoring the fact that Sabrar had him linked to bessie as well is very odd.

unvote

I'll decide who to vote for after my bottom three posts some content (or after they don't)

@Madge: You should kill one of the lurkers that we don't lynch.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:19 pm UTC

Belated reads!! No particular order in the categories.

Town

Plytho
Town or the most successful bus ever! I'm going with town.

somitomi/Madge
I believe the claim and was town reading somi before madge took over anyway. Town

Neutral leaning town
Zenii
Content is lighter than I remember but I like what there is of it.

BoomFrog
I was scum reading boom through day 1, My read has improved given the flips etc.

mpolo
Content is light but could have used that as an excuse for not piling onto bessie.

Neutral leaning scum
moody7277
I don't like the point of not wanting to tie and I think it shows a link to bessie.

Scum
Vicarin
I'm going to call the arguments with sabrar null as I can see vicarin doing that level of arguing as either alignment.

SuperJedi224
Scum reading through day 1 nothing today has improved my read.

I agree with the statements that he was trying to save bessie. Now I can see town vicarin answering town sabrar's stubbornness with his own stubbornness but I think it is unlikely.

Mark_Cangila
viewtopic.php?p=4400255#p4400255 This post rings alarm bells as there are some key reads missing. Especially Bessie.


@ Madge shoot any my bottom three that don't get lynched.

Vote Vicarin
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:48 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Isn't wam just after me in his reads list?

You're right. I missed it twice.

mpolo wrote:wam - vote on bessie came late, and the wagon was pretty much decided. Keeps pressure against plytho.

This summery sounds like all scummyness. Why does this warrant a position above me and Zenii?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:55 pm UTC

wam wrote:BoomFrog
I was scum reading boom through day 1, My read has improved given the flips etc.

What was it about the flip that changed your mind about me?

Scum
Vicarin
I'm going to call the arguments with sabrar null as I can see vicarin doing that level of arguing as either alignment.

...

I agree with the statements that he was trying to save bessie. Now I can see town vicarin answering town sabrar's stubbornness with his own stubbornness but I think it is unlikely.

...

Vote Vicarin

The two underlined statements are contradictory. Did you change your mind mid read?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

@Zenii: I didn't want to try the mind meld D1 because I thought you'd feel I was manipulating you. But I think we are past that danger now. So, like, wam man.... right?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:59 pm UTC

@ boom 2 different items of vics play. 1 the endless stat argument with sabrar the 2nd doubting the meta read. I know they are linked but I viewed them separately.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:09 pm UTC

@boom.

I don't think here you would have gone after sabrar as Bessie buddy

viewtopic.php?p=4400132#p4400132
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:03 pm UTC

Conf town:
Mark
Sabrar

Likely town:
Plytho (I like his content, and the bus others have mentioned)

Neutral:
Madge (I like her claim, as others have said, and as her claim is the best we have seen, I think we should trust her for now, depending on vig kill. The biggest issue is that, bc of the possibility of 3 vigs counterclaims will be few and far between, I want Madge to claim suit)

Mpolo (I don't like his reads list, and I disagree on Moody, Madge, and myself. Not enough to vote against though)

Wam (I really don't know how to read him. Am I wrong in saying he seems pretty generic? Nothing stood out to me on my D2 ISO)

Moody (I agree with his view on Madge, but I dislike him strong read on Vic.)

SuperJedi (Content is improving enough to be unvotable for now)

Zenii (I'm really not sure about them)

Vicarin (The bessie sabrar ordeal, although I am moving him up due to content.)

Likely scum:
BoomFrog (He says Vicarin is likely town because of a reaction which could totally have been faked, especially if Vic was scum and knew how the flip would land. I also feel like he is seriously spilling wine.

Conf Scum:
Bessie

Also, my partial reads list was due to deadline hitting me. In the list I said an extension was coming.

Vote: BoomFrog

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:42 pm UTC

No particular order within the categories.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby SuperJedi224 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:25 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Ok, so wam moves to the middle. Why is BoomFrog so low?


This first comment is what initially struck me as odd, but several other players also said strange things on the first couple of pages. Of more immediate relevance is that some of his posts on page 7 (starting here) are also striking me as vaguely scummy. Additionally, some of the comments made by a couple of other players regarding BoomFrog at around the same time (including your comments here) do seem to support this.

Also:
plytho wrote:Not sure I'm buying no-gambit BoomFrog.


Additionally, some of his statements in these two posts (made on the same day) - and even, to a lesser extent, within the latter post - seem to contradict each other.

Somehow I ended up with four different pages of this topic open in separate tabs again.

plytho wrote:Why did you file [moody] under town in the first place?


Will try to answer this one later, don't have time right now.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:42 pm UTC

Well, wam's read list is kinda weird. Having Mark as most scummy because he didn't include bessie on a reads list involving 5 people is pretty flimsy, when there's so much else to go on. Saying that he thinks it's unlikely that I'd answer stubbornness with stubbornness in a TvsT with Sabrar is funny, seeing as I did exactly that in NNYM (and Sabrar gave up first :P ).

I'm trying to work out Mark's read list is because he's really, really brave as scum, or if he is just town after all. Going after BoomFrog is very weird.

Seriously considering if we should get any other vigs to claim right now considering how they'll be a favorite for scum to claim as in a desperate situation, and we might end up with not much time to check, seeing how long it could take to check Madge.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:51 pm UTC

@SuperJedi: going to have to explain how those posts by BoomFrog contradict each other. Also, all the posts you've used as evidence are from pretty early on, are you saying that nothing that's happened in the last 7 or so pages has updated your read of him? Because your first reads list had him as neutral, and this was after all of those posts, so I'm not buying it.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Well, wam's read list is kinda weird. Having Mark as most scummy because he didn't include bessie on a reads list involving 5 people is pretty flimsy, when there's so much else to go on.

It's in no particular order...
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:44 am UTC

Ah, right. Does it still justify him being scummier than your read of moody?

Also, why has your read of BoomFrog improved?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:51 am UTC

@Mark: how will my claiming suit help you feel more sure of my alignment? Draw yourself a random non-spade card from here - say I claimed to be whatever that suit is. What would that tell you about my alignment? Just the lack of a counterclaim?

Moody is just being so odd. But far be it from me to call someone scummy for not accepting my claim at face value; but then again, the other people had much less going for them in terms of claim quality.

RE other vig(s) claiming: I think we should hold off on it. Other vig(s) can use the targets that people are proposing

i'm about to submit a list of kill targets (probably 3-4 in order). I should be at our accomodation tomorrow pretty early in the day, however having mobile signal is going to be a major issue. I should theoretically have signal with my work phone but I don't want to make assumptions.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Zenii » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:57 am UTC

wam, why did you include that second part of your Vic read under Jedi? Did you move him in the list? If so, why if it's not ordered? Also, please claim.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Zenii » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:59 am UTC

Madge, include the contingency that you will refrain from shooting a player who receives a majority of noVig votes in thread. This will be helpful in case someone claims a PR while you're gone.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:01 am UTC

Oh! Good point on the novig thing.

So people could make a novig vote like this, maybe?

novig: Madge
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Zenii » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:32 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Zen is both good at faking tone.
It makes me very happy that you think this, but I'm curious... what is your source?
BoomFrog wrote:Also, I wanted to reply to this but never found a good time. I was actually ninja'd in between those two posts, I read the first, replied then read the second post by Sabrar and wrote the second half of the reply.
This isn't possible though because you made a post in between:

xx:12
Sabrar wrote:Lol, that completely reversed my read on you.


xx:21
BoomFrog wrote:Regarding suit claiming. I agree scum may have face-card claims. My LaserGuy clone trapped in my computer's pocket dimension simulation says that telling us there are safe-claims is sufficiently open and literally is the act of telling town that scum know specific roles that town doesn't have. What's really interesting is the ripple of people who quickly accepted Sabrar is town from this line of questioning. (I agree btw). I think Vicarin is also town, but I didn't get a good feeling from plytho, wam or moody. (still well within the uncertain territory)

The reason I don't like suit claiming is because a mafioso who claims nearly last might get a chance to see a suit is fairly empty and then take the chance of claiming a face-card in that empty suit. I'd rather force scum to stick to their safe-claims which presumably were given randomly and are likely to be vanilla claims.


xx:22
Sabrar wrote:On second thought you might have misread it as either alignment.


xx:28
BoomFrog wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Lol, that completely reversed my read on you.

Ooo, ooo! Am I scum now? What gave you the townie feeling originally? Voting superJedi? hmm...

My tiny Sabrar clone is just smirking at me... :?

Sabrar wrote:On second thought you might have misread it as either alignment.
Oh, I was scum and then town. But now back toward "Is BoomFrog". I see. So scummy for voting SuperJedi? Or scummy for no gambit?


Am I missing something?

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:33 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Ah, right. Does it still justify him being scummier than your read of moody?

Also, why has your read of BoomFrog improved?


I think so. And

viewtopic.php?p=4401423#p4401423
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:35 am UTC

Zenii wrote:wam, why did you include that second part of your Vic read under Jedi? Did you move him in the list? If so, why if it's not ordered? Also, please claim.

Formatting issues nothing more. As I started with the player list in op then moved to categories.

And no.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:40 am UTC

wam wrote:@boom.

I don't think here you would have gone after sabrar as Bessie buddy

viewtopic.php?p=4400132#p4400132

Can you explain why? BoomFrog going after Sabrar seems sensible if he's scum, doesn't it?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:44 am UTC

Main issue with other vigs also firing from such a list would be scum being able to hide once a gunsmith came up (oh, I fired at the same target Madge did, honest!). I think it'd be somewhat easier, seeing as we already have a vig out in the open, for any other vigs to all claim, and we can sort out what to do with the other ones then. Or, in the likely case that noone else claims vig, we just lynch any other future vig claims. Easy.

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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Madge » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:47 am UTC

I've submitted my list now, so hopefully any other vig will use any posts that happened after now to determine their targets to ensure we don't double up. Shoot early, shoot often; or something!
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:14 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:@boom.

I don't think here you would have gone after sabrar as Bessie buddy

viewtopic.php?p=4400132#p4400132

Can you explain why? BoomFrog going after Sabrar seems sensible if he's scum, doesn't it?


It does and in a twist of logic is too obvious for scum.boom!
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby plytho » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:28 am UTC

wam wrote:It does and in a twist of logic is too obvious for scum.boom!
Why?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:03 am UTC

As attacking the player who is building the case against your buddy is pretty blatant scum behaviour. Therefore scum.bpom wouldn't do it. Town boom who doestn know the alignments would.
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby wam » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:14 am UTC

Zenii wrote: Also, please claim.


Why did you push me to claim and haven't pushed anyone else under suspicion?
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Re: Texas Hold'em Mafia (Day 2)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:17 am UTC

So let me get this right...

BoomFrog: is town because he attacks the person building the case against bessie.

Vicarin: is scum because he argues the meta read of bessie is incorrect.

Or is there something I'm missing?


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