It felt pretty clear to me that somitomi was using a mafia= 2 or more people, indies = 1 person factions interpretation here so I'm confused that bessie didn't see that. She seems to be forcing her own interpretation of somi's statement (somi doesn't think there are 1 person factions) onto what somi was actualy trying to say (3X2 is 6 mafia out of 12 people, that's a lot).bessie wrote:Why do you assume that no mafia teams started with one person?somitomi wrote:Isn't that a lot of mafia? Assuming none of the teams consists of a single person, that would mean at least half the players are mafia
bessie wrote:Town can push pretty hard too, when they feel confident that they have caught scum (or so I've been told ).jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Fair comment on the underlined statement. However, what I should have written was that scum are more likely to push those who are not on their team than their buddies, given that this game is likely multiball. Presumably, scum knew he wasn't their buddy.bessie wrote:The underlined implies scum knows they are pushing town.
Why would scum know if Vicarin was town?
Why would Vicarin’s alignment make my push on him suspect?
Your push led to a mislynch. Anything that leads to a mislynch is suspect in my books. Yes, you could be mistaken town, but causing a mislynch increases the chances you are scum.
If Vicarin was a mislynch it is not a given. I know that you feel that something in your role points to Vicarin being town, but you can’t prove it at this time, so as far as I know Vicarin was scum.
These points seem overly defensive to me. It reads like "You can't prove I voted for a townie, and even if you could it wouldn't matter because anyone could do that." The "Why would Vicarin's alignment make my push suspect?" question is particularly odd because it sounds like bessie is advocating against wagon analysis. Bessie, we know that the simple fact that someone voted for a townie doesn't necessarily make them scum. In fact any successful wagon will contain townies in most cases. That doesn't mean we shouldn't find anyone on that wagon suspicious. Even in multiball where, yes, scum can legitimately scumhunt, we can still be suspicious of the people lynching a townie.bessie wrote:Are you not following my prodding of jimbob along similar lines? If we are in multiball, scum can legitimately scumhunt.plytho wrote:Sabrar, like BoomFrog/ConMan and bessie are the one’s for whom Vicarins flip would have been very useful in determining their alignment. If Vicarin was town one of them could have janitored him to protect themselves. On the other hand, Vicarin’s scumbuddy could have janitored him to make Sabroomssie look suspicious or at least prevent them from getting mad town cred.
Here's what's most suspicious about your response: I was saying Vicarin's flip could have helped determine your alignment. I wasn't saying it would make you look guilty, yet you respond defensively. Are you saying a Vicarin scum flip would not inform us about your alignment in any way? What do you know that we don't?
ConMan: conveniently between bessie and jimbob so I'm taking another look. I'm not sure I believe the randomness aspect of his claim. A couple of things seem deliberate (BoomMan being safe, both wagons redirected at me, the fact that three people are safe and three are double targeted) On the other hand, keeping all this quiet is a huge boon for scum so I'd be surprised if scum shared these results.
Jimbob: Jimbob seems to be basing a lot on his pm-based town read of Vicarin. Interesting how he changes from a wild guess here
to role-pm based info herejimbobmacdoodle wrote:Wild guess is that Vicarin is likely dead permanently, whereas mpolo might come back.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:]My role PM also implies that Vicarin is more likely permanently dead. It's not guaranteed though.
Other than that his claims seem to be pretty consistent. I like his reads list. Jimbob is clearly paying attention. I like how he points out some stuff that others missed/forgot about (mpolo claiming his flip wouldn't reveal stuff, moody implying being scum). I have a town lean on jimbob. This kind of implies town!Vicarin which reinforces suspicion on bessie, ConMan.
Madge: Hmm, I thought madge had taken into account her possible hidden role but this bit isn't that, it's Madge saying she's not lying:
Madge wrote:No, I won't be participating in speculation about what my role *really* is, because my only answer will be "yes, I am really vanilla town". I'm sure everyone will discuss amongst themselves because I wouldn't believe me, but I don't have the time or inclination to go into a debate about this, and I definitely don't have the ability to convince anyone that I'm really truly vanilla town, unless we have a rolecop who can investigate me and prove it once and for all, and then do you really want to prove the vanilla town person?