Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:44 pm UTC

And if he doesn't turn up?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:47 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:If only one of them is scum then SDK looks much better because he's not voting for Vicarin to survive.
I'd say that's also a minor point


I'm curious to know why that's a minor point. When I went back up the page and confirmed it with the votals, my jaw dropped about two inches.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:48 pm UTC

Tbh imo the best play for scum SDK in this position is to not post until deadline.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:49 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:If only one of them is scum then SDK looks much better because he's not voting for Vicarin to survive.
I'd say that's also a minor point


I'm curious to know why that's a minor point. When I went back up the page and confirmed it with the votals, my jaw dropped about two inches.


I know someone else mentioned it as a possibility but we could be looking at both scum.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:50 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:If only one of them is scum then SDK looks much better because he's not voting for Vicarin to survive.
I'd say that's also a minor point


I'm curious to know why that's a minor point. When I went back up the page and confirmed it with the votals, my jaw dropped about two inches.
You removed the relevant SDK quote. It's minor because he'll be around at deadline to vote for safety.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:01 pm UTC

wam wrote:Tbh imo the best play for scum SDK in this position is to not post until deadline.
Why is that?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:02 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@plytho: indulge me. Suppose we lynch SDK and he turns up Town. What do you do next? You tunneled him quite extensively today, what conclusion will you draw from that? Who will be your Top suspect next?
Why did you ask? And what will you do if Vicarin turns up Town?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:03 pm UTC

Because the odds are that he will not be lynched. Any good posts will be less influential by start of d2 but a bad one could lead to his lynch.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:06 pm UTC

wam wrote:Because the odds are that he will not be lynched. Any good posts will be less influential by start of d2 but a bad one could lead to his lynch.
He did say he'd be back before deadline. If he didn't show up I'd bug him about it relentlessly D2.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:08 pm UTC

plytho: I answered that question already.

Wam: it's a soft deadline, so it's not as if I can just post and close out the day.

Sabrar: plytho's right that I will "vote defensively" if I have to. Vicarin's not my favourite choice, but he is not a bad lynch at all. I also thought you'd probably see that as buddying, but I always point out what I think is true. What advantage would I gain from that buddying anyway? Seems to me there's no scum gain there.

Vote Vicarin

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:14 pm UTC

SDK wrote:plytho: I answered that question already.
This question?
plytho wrote:@SDK: what kind of answer were you expecting when you decided to keep the question in, knowing it was about a role-pm? What were the specifics you were expecting? And why didn't you answer these questions earlier.
No you didn't.

Please point out where you think you did.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:26 pm UTC

SDK wrote:plytho: I answered that question already.


Not here:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:Hmmm. The problem here is that Mark explicitly stated that it was a question about his role-pm before you asked him this question. If that wasn't the case, sure you're not explicitly role-fishing, here it is the case, though.
I did my read through post in chronological order. Sometimes that means I ask questions that get deleted in the final version. I came upon that answer after writing the question, then decided not to delete the question since I thought it still added value to ask for the specifics.


Not here:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:I also just realised you're making stuff up!

You couldn't delete the question from your reads list since you asked the question before your reads list.

Huh, true enough. It was written right beforehand. I think what I was remembering was that I chose not to correct myself or retract the question after the fact? Same general idea anyway.


Not here:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:There's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm.

Right, but I wrote the question before seeing that it was from his role PM.


Nor here:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:There's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm.

Right, but I wrote the question before seeing that it was from his role PM.
Yeah, no. That won't fly. You don't get to use your original (arguably more justifiable) motivation for asking the question when you later on acknowledge that you decided to keep the question after becoming aware it was about the role pm. You're deliberately misleading us here.

I mean, I get that you're not going to listen to me regardless, but you picked on some minor thing and I defend against that minor thing. You can continue to suspect me if you want to, but you can't add "there's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm" to your list of grievances.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:32 pm UTC

Plytho, I think I see where you're coming from, but I'm still not convinced that you are correct. Unfortunately, I can't really explain why easily.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:39 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Why did you ask? And what will you do if Vicarin turns up Town?
I wanted to see your mind-set. And I haven't decided yet, I'm hoping N1 will produce some information.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:47 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Plytho, I think I see where you're coming from, but I'm still not convinced that you are correct. Unfortunately, I can't really explain why easily.
Well, at least you understand what I'm saying, I guess I'll have to catch another slip to convince you :)
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:22 pm UTC

Well, decent chance I'll end up being zombified I guess. Ah well.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Diemo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:25 pm UTC

It had been a warm sunny afternoon, and now the sky was beginning to darken. The evening brought with it a cool, almost chilly breeze. Soon the children would leave the happiness of the playground for the safety of their homes, with the expectation of more games the following day.

Children view the world with wonder and see magic everywhere. But childhood is a fleeting moment, and time moves always and only forward. Someday the children would look back upon this time, and remember the days when they were young and innocent; laughing without a care in the world, and everything was still alright. In each person’s life, there is an experience that defines who they are, who they become. For these children, their moment had arrived with the evening breeze.


freezeblade: [lies back and stares up at the sky] Is this day finally almost over? We need to decide.
moody7277: Why are you always so impatient whenever we start a new game? Anyway, I think Mark is scum.
Mark_Cangila : [defiantly] I don’t see why I am any scummier than Madge. She’s always avoiding answering questions, and just wants to talk about herself.
plytho: I think SDK is scum. Let’s lynch him.
Vicarin: What about mpolo? He’s been bloody quiet, probably trying to hide something.
Madge: Maybe I’m always talking about myself because I’m the most interesting person in this group? And since we can’t decide who to lynch, let’s just lynch bessie.
bessie: [pulls Madge’s hair] Shut up!
Sabrar: bessie, stop it. Mark, Madge is obviously a good guy. Scum is most likely wam.
wam: Every game we play you always pick on me and defend Madge well and this time you’re wrong maybe Madge is the bad guy I know that this time I’m not a bad guy I’m a good guy.
LaserGuy: Sabrar, why wam, and why not Madge?
jimbobmacdoodle: I have some thoughts on everyone I would be happy to explain.
freezeblade: Hell no we haven’t got another hour, it’s almost dark. Let’s decide already.
mpolo: [throws ball in the air and catches it] Why don’t we just settle on Vicarin?
Sabrar: I would agree to SDK instead of wam, he is also scum.
Dog: [eyes Sabrar] Grrrrr........
SDK: [suspiciously] Sabrar you sound very sure of yourself.
LaserGuy: TBH that’s pretty normal for him.
plytho: All right everyone, it’s between SDK and Vicarin! So who should it be?
SDK: Not me, I’m obviously a good guy.
bessie: [stands up] Ok let’s take a vote! Everyone raise your hand if you want to lynch SDK!
Diemo: [takes count] Hmmm, that’s a lot fewer than I expected a little while ago.
bessie: Now raise your hand if you want to lynch Vicarin!

[not everyone raises their hand, but there are enough to be certain Vicarin will receive the more votes than anyone else]

Vicarin: [sarcastically] Oh, right, so does this mean I win?
Dog: Woof woof!
bessie: Well ok, it looks like we’ve decided to lynch Vicarin, now what do we do?
Diemo: Vicarin, climb to the top of the jungle gym.

[Vicarin climbs to the top, followed by Diemo. Diemo loops one end of the rope around Vicarin’s neck and ties the other end to the highest bar.]

Diemo: Vicarin, you’ve been found guilty of being scum, now it’s time for your punishment!
Vicarin: What am I supposed to do now?
Diemo: Jump!
Vicarin: What? I’m not going to jump off of here. It’s a long way down.
jimbobmacdoodle: C’mon, you wanted to play! And it’s not that far.
wam: [taunting Vicarin] You’re not afraid, are you?
SDK: Yeah go ahead jump already!
mpolo: I’m not sure if this is a good idea. We need to stop this.
Dog: Woof!
Sabrar: Jump Vicarin!

[the children gather around the jungle gym, yelling and stomping their feet]

Children: [chanting] Jump! Jump! Jump!
Madge: Jeez, Diemo just push him off already!
Vicarin: All right, all right, here I go!!!!


Night has fallen. Please don't post in this thread until Daystart.

Final Votals:
Mark_Cangila (1) : Madge
SDK (4) : plytho, moody7277, Vicarin, wam
Vicarin (6) : jimbobmacdoodle, Mark_Cangila, mpolo, Sabrar, Laserguy, SDK
jimbobmacdoodle (1) : freezeblade
Not Voting (2) : LaserGuy, threetwoone

Vicarin has been lynched. His alignment will be revealed in the morning.

Deadline for night is Midnight GMT+1 Monday 4th
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:42 pm UTC

It was a sweltering night in late August. Summer vacation was almost over and the days were getting shorter. The neighborhood kids gathered at the little park at the end of the street. There was only one miserable weekend remaining before school started. The growing neighborhood was not as quiet and peaceful as it had once been. The park had changed since the happy days of their childhood, but at least it was still there, not yet swallowed up by the widening roads. The kids were sprawled out on the grass by the far wall, hiding in the darkness and hoping to avoid the summons from their parents to come home for the night.


freezeblade: So wam, what time do you have to be home? Isn’t this about when your mom comes looking for you?
wam: No I’m cool I told my mom I was staying at plytho’s house tonight.
jimbobmacdoodle: Who has that water bottle? Pass it over already.
Mark_Cangila : [hands a water bottle to SDK to pass along] I have it, here.
SDK: [takes a drink from the bottle before handing it to jimbobmacdoodle] Yuck, what is that stuff anyway?
moody7277: A bunch of different things. I went through my dad’s liquor cabinet and took a little bit of everything so he wouldn’t notice anything was missing.
SDK: That stuff is nasty. Pass me another Red Bull.
bessie: I’m out have a Monster. Where’s the trash can?
Madge: There’s one next to the drinking fountain by the jungle gym.
BoomFrog: What jungle gym? There's no jungle gym in this park.
LaserGuy: She means where the jungle gym used to be. It got taken out a long time ago. After that thing with Vicarin.
BoomFrog: Why what happened? Who’s Vicarin?
LaserGuy: It was 7, 8, 9 years ago? I don’t remember exactly. Before you moved here. A kid named Vicarin died on the jungle gym.
plytho: Yeah, I remember that night. We were playing a game, and Vicarin fell off the jungle gym and hit his head on the metal bars... split it right open, there was blood and brains everywhere.
mpolo: Hmmm, fell off? I thought he jumped? As part of the game.
Madge: There was one kid, threetwoone, he was pissed off about something, and he ran away right before it happened. Bad luck for him, he missed everything!
mpolo: Or he got lucky that he missed it.
freezeblade: And if a kid dying wasn’t bad enough, there was another kid that got all weird crazy afterwards.
SDK: Yep poor ol' Sabrar lost his mind after seeing Vicarin lose his brains. His parents had to send him away for a while.
bessie: [rubbing the ears of the Labrador Retriever lying between her and SDK] The whole family eventually had to move because Sabrar couldn’t handle looking out of his window and seeing the park. I heard he’s sort of a vegetable now anyway.
Mark_Cangila : [spinning the wheels on his skateboard] What was that stupid game anyway?
jimbobmacdoodle: The one with the town and the mafia. We never did finish it, did we?
moody7277: [sarcastically] No, um, we had to stop when the police and the ambulances showed up.
BoomFrog: Wow that must have been quite an interesting game. How do you play?
Diemo: I’ll explain it to you. We can play, and you can take threetwoone’s place.


Flavor inspiration.


Vicarin was lynched and is dead. He was a vanilla townie.

Sabrar has gone insane and has left the game. He was a vanilla townie.

BoomFrog will be replacing threetwoone.

Deadline is Monday 11th 8PM GMT
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:10 am UTC

:shock: Wow, that is some gruesome flavor haha.

Im not sure if I will be able to catch up. Can anyone give a summery of the action so far?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:36 am UTC

Basically two wagons vicarin and SDK. Sdk would have been lynched if it wasn't for.the extension.

On that note all through N1 my view.waa.that SDK was scum that had managed to weasel out the lynch so

vote sdk
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:36 am UTC

also to confirm sabrar was nk?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:44 am UTC

So the good news is only one death and no power-roles being hit.

I was going to try to get some information about whether or not we have two teams, but it seems like every possibility with two teams has the possibility that someone blocked, protected, or commuted to avoid one of the two kills.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby bessie » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:47 am UTC

wam wrote:also to confirm sabrar was nk?

Sabrar was night killed.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:34 am UTC

More practical advice for boom. Basically read from the start of page 5 onwards.

Having skimmed the wagon there are some interesting votes if we went have town Vic scum SDK. If their both town it's a lot less helpful.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:42 am UTC

Vote:SDK

Summary for boomfrog:

D1 started pretty slow, with excellent roleplay from Madge, LaserGuy and Sabrar.

An extension was requested but wasn't granted until after deadline. For all we knew these would have been the final votals D1.

I'd grown suspicious of SDK for rolefishing Mark_Cangila but didn't vote until I noticed a slip here. Got support from wam, mpolo, Sabrar and Vicarin.

After that near-lynch, SDK put in a lot of effort generating reads, leading people to read him more favorably. A wagon, launched by jimbob before the initial deadline, against Vicarin grew. This was based on his meta looking a lot less townie and asking a rolefishy question. He explained this as part of his posting restriction but this wasn't believed when he explained it.

I am still convinced SDK is scum and I believe these three posts contain the essence of my reasoning.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:48 am UTC

I still want everyone's opinion of my case on SDK. Do you agree, disagree? What am I right or wrong about?

@SDK: I still want that answer.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:59 am UTC

I think it's a g8ven but I agree
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:07 am UTC

I will take votes for SDK as an answer :D
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:15 am UTC

Not convinced about plytho's case on SDK still, but I will re-review SDK's content when I get a few minutes. I'm not sure how much time these next 2-3 days I'm going to get: I expect to be mostly phone posting, and will do what I can though. Would somebody with a bit more time be willing to compile a vote timeline from around the original deadline onwards, please? There could be some informative stuff in there, although we should keep in mind that it is perfectly possible we were choosing between two townies.

@freezeblade, I believe somebody else asked you about this already, but to reiterate, your vote on me you admitted was based on a misunderstanding. Why did you not unvote and take a stance on SDK versus Vicarin?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:43 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Would somebody with a bit more time be willing to compile a vote timeline from around the original deadline onwards, please?


Unofficial Votals at original deadline:

Madge (1) : Mark_Cangila
Mark_Cangila (2) : Madge, moody7277
SDK (5) : plytho, wam, mpolo, Sabrar, Vicarin
plytho (1) : SDK
Vicarin (1): jimbobmacdoodle

Not Voting (3) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, threetwoone

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.


P6 [SDK 5, Vicarin 1]
  1. Vicarin unvotes SDK
  2. Mark votes Vicarin
  3. Freezeblade votes jimbob
  4. SDK unvotes me

P7 [SDK 4, Vicarin 2]


  1. wam unvotes SDK
  2. moody unvotes Mark
  3. wam votes Vicarin
  4. mpolo unvotes SDK

P8 [SDK 2, Vicarin 3]
  1. mpolo votes vicarin
  2. SDK votes freezeblade
  3. moody votes SDK
  4. Vicarin votes SDK
  5. Sabrar votes Vicarin

P9 [SDK 3, Vicarin 5]
  1. wam votes SDK
  2. LaserGuy votes Vicarin

P10 [SDK 4, Vicarin 5]
  1. SDK votes Vicarin

Final: [SDK 4, Vicarin 6]
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:58 am UTC

Fruit vendor and mafia vs town knowledge thoughts:

By now the entire mafia team knows their available powers and from this they know the setup (8/14) or can narrow things down to one of two setups (6/14) as pointed out by Vicarin here
Vicarin wrote:The setups where mafia doesn't know what setup it is are 6 and 10, 7 and 8, and 9 and 14.


We don't know anything (PR townies are aware of 2 or 4 possibilities).

If a fruit vendor is in the game we're playing scenario (5) or (10).

In scenario (5) scum already know the exact setup so a claim would be helpful to town only.
In scenario (10) scum isn't certain it's not (6) unless they rolecopped a PR. There's a 3 in 8 chance for them to have hit a PR.

A fruit, or fruit vendor claim seems to benefit town a lot more than scum.

So, considering the flips didn't provide any setup info, I'm pro fruit claims. Maybe even pro fruit vendor claim.

If the fruit vendor claims and gets NK'd: great we know for certain that we're in (5) or (10) and our tracker+jailkeeper/watcher+cop stay alive. If they don't get NK'd they're creating a stronger base of evidence for their claim by sending more fruit out.

Hmm, scenario (5) has a lot of roleblocking, so in that strong base of evidence might get blocked. So perhaps a fruit vendor shouldn't claim until someone has claimed to have received fruit?

Conclusion: in my opinion anyone who received fruit should claim. If anyone claims fruit the fruit vendor should claim.

Check my reasoning please.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:14 am UTC

Plytho

As someone said previously I think the first person to receive fruit should claim. Then going forward we can hopefully use it as an innocent child townie in end game. This is all assuming we have one....
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:14 am UTC

Also it's really quiet so far on D2. Where are you people!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:23 am UTC

wam wrote: Then going forward we can hopefully use it as an innocent child townie in end game.

Why wait until end-game?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:24 am UTC

wam wrote:Also it's really quiet so far on D2. Where are you people!
Sabrar and Vicarin are both dead. I'm busy. Plytho and you are here. I think most others are on US time, so still to get up, apart from Madge (where is she?).
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jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:25 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
wam wrote:Also it's really quiet so far on D2. Where are you people!
Sabrar and Vicarin are both dead. I'm busy. Plytho and you are here. I think most others are on US time, so still to get up, apart from Madge (where is she?).

EBWOP: Forgot mpolo, who is also European time, I think?

On fruit vendors, I'm going to give it some thought, and answer on my way home today, hopefully.
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wam
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:27 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote: Then going forward we can hopefully use it as an innocent child townie in end game.

Why wait until end-game?


Because con town at the end are much more valuable! Than now when all it does I paint targets for scum.
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wam
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:27 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
wam wrote:Also it's really quiet so far on D2. Where are you people!
Sabrar and Vicarin are both dead. I'm busy. Plytho and you are here. I think most others are on US time, so still to get up, apart from Madge (where is she?).


I know just channelling my impatience and living up to meta of sabrar
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moody7277
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:11 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I still want everyone's opinion of my case on SDK. Do you agree, disagree? What am I right or wrong about?


Well, I was voting for him end of D1.

Point to wam here for putting up the answer to plytho I would have.

I also want to apologize to Mark for thinking he was a werewolf. I no longer believe that to be true.
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plytho
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:33 pm UTC

wam wrote:Because con town at the end are much more valuable! Than now when all it does I paint targets for scum.
Hmm, you have a point. But I'm not entirely convinced.

I do think there is some value in an early claim as I believe it puts scum in a tough position and can take some pressure off powered townies. There is also a risk of fruit receivers getting lynched and nightkilled. Which could lead to a claim-counterclaim scenario where we can't tell who the actual fruit vendor is.

Anyone who received fruit N1 should definitely claim. There's no good reason not to claim that I can see. I also think the fruit vendor should counterclaim if his recipient didn't claim by the end of the day.

I'm not sure what my position is on fruit vendor claiming if Sabrar was the recipient. Neither do I know what is best if someone claims fruit.
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