Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 7:43 pm UTC

I just reread some of FAC668 and now remember exactly how painful it is to pin anything to both Sabrar and moody. Timely, perhaps, since I'm now wondering if they could both be scummers here. I basically want to lynch moody for one reason only: ignoring me. But okay, breaks over. Back to work. Sabrar, comin' right up.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 8:06 pm UTC

unvote

As SDK has pr9vided a lot of content that I'm too tired to analyse tonight. Will have a look tomorrow.
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SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 8:08 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Sabrar, comin' right up.

Not sure why I said that since I have to leave now. Just blame DJ for my lurking.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 8:14 pm UTC

Why am I voting you? It is one of my patented meta-reads which I already explained. Due to your request here it is again with a bit more detail:
You are the player who can most consistently read me. You can look at any game we previously played, FAC668, Secret Santa 2016, Diablo, Shakespeare. When you 'read' me in Alien Warfare but didn't label me immediately as alien I knew right away that you weren't human and I was right. Here you should have all the info to see that I'm town but you're pushing me heavily, ergo you can't be town. I'm sorry if I expect too much of you but you gave me every reason to do so.
Your mistakes also don't help your case.

And now we arrive to this little gem:
SDK wrote:The lurker lynch was unlikely to happen, but if it did it wouldn't be so bad.
So... This is in stark contrast with how you behaved in Shakespeare. You fought against the lurker-lynch hard and even explained why you did so. You definitely did not encourage that course of action.

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SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 8:30 pm UTC

Look again at FAC668. It took me a day and a half of fighting before I caught you as scum.

Lurker lynches are bad when you have better options. I was looking for better options.
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Sabrar
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 8:39 pm UTC

FAC668 was our first real game together (you left Smalltown early) and you needed time to get your bearings.

So you went for a bad idea while you looked for a better option?

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plytho
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 8:57 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Well that's good news. I'm pretty sure that would have only been the second time I've ever been lynched on this site (the first when I was copped mafia).
Don't count your chickens yet!

SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:There's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm.

Right, but I wrote the question before seeing that it was from his role PM.
Yeah, no. That won't fly. You don't get to use your original (arguably more justifiable) motivation for asking the question when you later on acknowledge that you decided to keep the question after becoming aware it was about the role pm. You're deliberately misleading us here.
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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed May 30, 2018 9:08 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Mark, do you think Vicarin is scummy for his role fishing?

Yeah. I feel like Scum!Vic would do this more, because not only does it reveal roles, it gives more setup info.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed May 30, 2018 9:17 pm UTC

I'm starting to suspect Moody and Madge working together. Moody [url="http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124758&start=143#top"]here[/url] votes for me with no explanation. Madge also votes for me [url="http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124758&start=98"]here[/url] on a line of reasoning that seems ridiculous, and that many people find ridiculous. I dislike how Moody votes for me, not long after Madge, for seemingly no reason

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed May 30, 2018 9:18 pm UTC

I definitely messed up those URL tags.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 9:47 pm UTC

@Mark - URL tags don't need the quotes. Do you think that town!Vic is not interested in the setup info? If not, why not?

A number of players feel very lurky to me. Off the top of my head, I don't feel like I've seen much recently from LaserGuy, wam, or Madge, and probably others too. Freezeblade's only recent content is his self-admitted misplaced vote on me.

wam wrote:Vicarin seems to be a lot quotes under suspicion than I remeber him being in previous games. Will have a look back for examples.
What did you find? How does this affect your read on him?

I haven't had enough time for this game today, and it's only going to get worse approaching the new deadline. I'm feeling okay with mpolo's and SDK's reads, but I probably need to look at them in more depth.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 30, 2018 10:41 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:A number of players feel very lurky to me. Off the top of my head, I don't feel like I've seen much recently from LaserGuy, wam, or Madge, and probably others too. Freezeblade's only recent content is his self-admitted misplaced vote on me.


Maybe you're not seeing much recently because we are on the very end of D1, and not only that, but an extended D1. I really don't see much in the way of anything to comment on until we have more information D2.

Need I say my old refrain? Day one sucks.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:44 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Yeah, you really should. Why didn't you?


Because between that post and the original deadline I had dinner, sleep, and the deadline being at 8am my time. As for "ignoring" you, I just got back from some serious real life shit errands, so please give me some space. How some of you people can post clear until 4am I'll never understand.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 30, 2018 11:01 pm UTC

Oh wow you guys, we got the extension at the last minute. Did not expect that at all. I guess it's your lucky day, SDK! I guess it's good because there's more time to figure out the lynch, but is bad because it means more D1. And we get more SDK!

On LaserGuy travel related note, I will be on vacation from the 6th-13th in Mexico, which is going to be A-MAZING, but that will probably mean that I won't be posting much during that time, and when I do, I will probably be drunky-drunk-drunk, which I am sure you will all just LOVE. We just got some headphones for my younger son so he'll be able to listen to something on the plane, and it's the first time he's ever listened to them, and he's just kind of staring at them like their magic, talking them off and putting them on with this huge grin on his face. CUTEST THING EVER.

wam, SDK already had enough votes for lynch, so there wasn't really any point in adding more. I wasn't planning on voting D1, and wouldn't have except that we had seven different wagons that were all going nowhere and I felt I needed to do something. Feel free to use this as evidence for me being buddies with SDK and/or Vicarin. I'm sure Madge will.

jimbob, did you forget about me because I went out of character? Won't happen again, I promise. But it's been only just 12 hours since my last post.

moody, why do you think it's more likely that Mark is werewolf for talking about it rather than this just being a newbie thing?
By the way, the PM thing is not something I found scummy because it's not the kind of PM thing I've come to dislike.

I have no idea what this is trying to say.

SDK wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I also don't like that SDK hasn't really attempted to refute this case, particularly, and seems intent on pushing this as scum-motivated, which I don't buy at all.


Can you explain this whole sentence? What do you think I should be refuting that I haven't, and how have I been pushing the PM thing as scum-motivated?


I don't think I can do this as Madge
:evil:
Essentially, I find plytho's progression on the rolefish issue to be very natural and townie, and I feel his case on you is quite plausible. Over the same period, you went from having a modest townread on him to a hard scumread, and your tone felt quite nonchalant and dismissive of the comments that he's making. So on the one hand, it seems that you found his push against you to be scummy given the progression in your read, but on the other hand, you didn't seem to really care about it all that much either. I don't really know how to square these ideas together. This post where you reread plytho has a better feel to it to me, but it's also in the context of having a large number of players more or less agree with plytho on this and you still being on the docket for the lynch.
:D

Also, a point of order: Vicarin was also Town in both Stellaris and Darkest Dungeon.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 11:45 pm UTC

@SDK: the way that I thought would be easiest to breadcrumb would be to just give a like and dislike number that intersect at your role. The advantage to town is related to what I think Sabrar doesn't want to talk about today, but I could be wrong. Mafia would need to guess that someone is not just messing around with giving random numbers, so I don't think it would have benefited them much.

Main people I'm finding scummy are you, mainly for the same reasons as everyone else (you do rarely forget stuff), mpolo for the heavy active lurking up until the deadline, and Mark seems to just be going with whatever is in vogue at the moment, though that could just be a newbie thing. Obviously a proper read on threetwoone needs to wait until they get replaced too.

@Mark: unless you think I'm an SK, scum doesn't really need setup info in particular, this has already been covered.

Clearly I've been roleplaying as Zen too well overall :P

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Thu May 31, 2018 12:44 am UTC

SDK (and I hope he doesn't feel ignored by me any more :P )

Spoiler:
post 1: confirms
post 2: basic setup info for game directed at mpolo plus helpful link
post 3: joke votes wam
post 4&5: some probability mentions in further role spec
post 6: some explanation about DJ, defensive vs wam
post 7: suggests using real usernames only (a rather good point)

so far rather neutral

post 8:
Mark, question for you: what did you send that PM about in the pregame?


this part of the post is really nosy.

post 9: reads post. likes Madge, mpolo, suspicious of Sabrar, wam. switches vote to fb
post 10: responds to wam abot wam's "rolling with it" on being read as scummy.
post 11: continuing from post 10
post 12: response post to LG with what I think is how he was being read by everyone.

starting about here looks to be where the SDK-wagon got started.

post 13: sarcastic response to Sabrar about his flat out accusation, followed by a question on Sabrar's previous reads.
post 14: comments on some of Sabrar's reads. retracts the nosy question from post 8. becomes more suspicious of plytho due to his reads list. town to scum summary with Sabrar and plytho on bottom. votes Sabrar.
post 15: cites example for what his read on Sabrar is based on.
post 16: responses to Sabrar: disagrees on Vicarin read, tries to justify his reason for originally asking Mark about his PM trouble, some GoJoe fluff, and disagreement over how he goes about his arguments makes him scum or town. answers plytho on bessie stuff and timeline on Mark PM question.

I don't like how he backtracks on being wrong about the PM question for Mark.

post 17: continuing debate on SDK's attack attitude, reason for focusing on Vicarin

I see Sabrar's point on how relentless SDK usually is when he's town (and I recall a couple of those instances), but agree with SDK that the inverse isn't necessarily true. Plus SDK provided what may be a game with a counterexample (didn't read through it, wasn't in it).

post 18: response to plytho on the timeline re Mark PM question. Blames error in memory.
post 19: offers to start plytho wagon instead of Sabrar wagon.
post 20: answer re mpolo read
post 21: switches vote to plytho
post 22: continuing post 20, assures Vicarin he can spot scum!mpolo based on Seaside game.
post 23: continuing about mpolo read

after extension, SDK seems to be able to collect himself

post 24: de-emphasizes wam for scumminess. looks at some other players, with Mark and mpolo (still) town.
post 25: analysis of plytho leads to the conclusion of unvoting him.
post 26: analysis of Vicarin. concludes he is "concerning", follow up questions
post 27: some responses to Sabrar re lynching lurking fb and scum!mpolo games.
post 28: recall of game with Sabrar (and me) as scum, looking for parallels.
post 29: fluff
post 30: expansion on points from posts 27 & 28.


Basically, my opinion of SDK started downward around post 8, reached a nadir about posts 18-20, and has been working its way back up since. Had I been reading through at the time instead of watching Deadlist Catch, I may have even convinced myself to vote SDK. At this point, he's up to slightly townie according to my read; posts 25 and 26 really helped.

@LaserGuy: I believe this gem of SDK's explain's my original position to a tee:

SDK wrote:SK's typically love talking about SK's, just to make it clear that they of course can't be an SK,


As for what I consider the type of PM thing I dislike, you have only to look at this game for the alpha and omega.

Unvote: Mark
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Thu May 31, 2018 2:04 am UTC

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

@Madge: I'd still like an answer to my (and LaserGuy's) question about why I was your strongest town read.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 6:46 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
wam wrote:Vicarin seems to be a lot quotes under suspicion than I remeber him being in previous games. Will have a look back for examples.
What did you find? How does this affect your read on him?

Glad you asked!

So went back and looked at stellaris

Here are the ones where he is defending himself

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124370&sk=a&start=880#p4315825

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124370&sk=a&start=920#p4319350

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124370&sk=a&start=920#p4320436

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124370&sk=a&start=920#p4320873

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124370&sk=a&start=920#p4320913

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124370&sk=a&start=960#p4321029

Seems to be more aggressively defensive than is this game.

So vote vicarin

Still need to 're read last nights content
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu May 31, 2018 7:28 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:Need I say my old refrain? Day one sucks.
Good point. I slipped out of character there. Yes, D1 is terrible. Whose idea was it to have an extension???

Moody, what's with the unvote? It seems to me that you haven't explained what's changed about Mark in that post.
LaserGuy wrote:jimbob, did you forget about me because I went out of character? Won't happen again, I promise. But it's been only just 12 hours since my last post.
Not looked back, so I might be wrong, but it felt like your final post(s) before that had minimal to no useful content. Similar to wam. He had posted recently, but nothing decent.

@wam - were you going to post that Vicarin analysis if you hadn't been prodded?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 7:30 am UTC

So... I found like the third piece of evidence that plytho can't be normal scum, I think he's definitely good enough to fake this town-slip as an SK but I doubt he could do it as Mafia. Or I may be underestimating his cleverness again...

@freezeblade: hi friend! Why haven't you unvoted jimbob if it was based on a misperception? Don't you want to do some analysis of other players as well? There's plenty of stuff to look into and so far you've only been talking about pretty pretty colors. Also why do you want to wait for the Vendor to claim the first fruit?

I'm liking jimbob more and more which probably means he's scum. :) I don't think I'll be ever able to read him correctly...

Hey Madge! Could you explain why you have LaserGuy so close to Grrr? Why did you not pay attention to the deadline?

I'm starting to like Mark.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 7:37 am UTC

@jimbob I would have but probably not as quick.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 7:43 am UTC

moody7277 wrote:after extension, SDK seems to be able to collect himself
Perhaps that's the difference between the attitude of scum about to be lynched and scum seeing an opportunity to save themselves? Doesn't feel like townie progress to me.

Vicarin wrote:@SDK: the way that I thought would be easiest to breadcrumb would be to just give a like and dislike number that intersect at your role. The advantage to town is related to what I think Sabrar doesn't want to talk about today, but I could be wrong. Mafia would need to guess that someone is not just messing around with giving random numbers, so I don't think it would have benefited them much.
You seem to forget that mafia either already know the right number or know of two possibilities, making it easy to separate the vanillas from the pr's.


I don't have a lot of time today. I'll try to do some rereads starting with my scummiest reads, skipping SDK as I feel I've made my case there. So expect Vicarin and Madge first, but not for at least 6 hours.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu May 31, 2018 7:59 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:So... I found like the third piece of evidence that plytho can't be normal scum, I think he's definitely good enough to fake this town-slip as an SK but I doubt he could do it as Mafia. Or I may be underestimating his cleverness again...
This is probably me being dum, but, um... what town slip?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Diemo » Thu May 31, 2018 8:20 am UTC

Votals:
Madge (1) : Mark_Cangila
Mark_Cangila (2) : Madge, moody7277
SDK (3) : plytho, mpolo, Sabrar
plytho (1) : SDK
Vicarin (3): jimbob, Mark, wam
jimbob (1): freezeblade

Not Voting (3) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, Vicarin

Deadline is 3PM GMT+1 Friday
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Sabrar
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 8:50 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:This is probably me being dum, but, um... what town slip?
In my opinion scum!plytho would be annoyed at the extension announced at the last minute and not getting that mislynch. It would be hard for him to do the mental shift and find a really good reason to be joyful about it.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Thu May 31, 2018 9:00 am UTC

What about the case where he was bussing SDK and now he gets townie cred without having to get his buddy lynched?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Thu May 31, 2018 9:04 am UTC

@wam: main difference was that I thought I was playing perfectly townie in Stellaris so I was a bit peeved at people pushing me. Especially Zen. Here, I've done enough suspicious stuff that I think the concerns are justified, so I can hardly get angry about that. Also, this is why I'm still really interested in Madge's response to my question...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 9:12 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:What about the case where he was bussing SDK and now he gets townie cred without having to get his buddy lynched?
Yeah, no. Besides everything else plytho started the train and that level of D1 bussing does not make sense when there are other good candidates around.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 am UTC

Ok so reading back through Sdk

SDK wrote:Well that's good news. I'm pretty sure that would have only been the second time I've ever been lynched on this site (the first when I was copped mafia). Must be losing my touch. By which I mean, my mistakes this game show that I am losing my touch, or at least my memory!


This strike me as an odd thing for town SDK to say and strikes me as coming more from a scum.mindset.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 9:45 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Vicarin wrote:What about the case where he was bussing SDK and now he gets townie cred without having to get his buddy lynched?
Yeah, no. Besides everything else plytho started the train and that level of D1 bussing does not make sense when there are other good candidates around.


What is the world coming to I agree with sabrar!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 9:58 am UTC

I thought you were Sabar?? :lol:

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 10:04 am UTC

Good point!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 10:08 am UTC

My view is that we lynch one of SDK or vicarin and there should be enough data from the wagons that we can proceed from there.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 10:25 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@wam: main difference was that I thought I was playing perfectly townie in Stellaris so I was a bit peeved at people pushing me. Especially Zen. Here, I've done enough suspicious stuff that I think the concerns are justified, so I can hardly get angry about that. Also, this is why I'm still really interested in Madge's response to my question...


Which question I can't find it on my phone?

That's comes across scummy to me. I normally find town are firmly town in their mind so don't understand why they are being seen as scummy. Exception to this are people who are always scummy so are used to it. Examples being me, freeze Madge etc. People like Vic who are normally hard town reads normally react more to being called scummy.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 10:50 am UTC

wam wrote:That's comes across scummy to me. I normally find town are firmly town in their mind so don't understand why they are being seen as scummy. Exception to this are people who are always scummy so are used to it. Examples being me, freeze Madge etc. People like Vic who are normally hard town reads normally react more to being called scummy.
This is a good point. Run for your lives, the end is near, I agree with wam... :twisted:

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Thu May 31, 2018 10:57 am UTC

You mean you agree with yourself.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Thu May 31, 2018 10:57 am UTC

Well, that should be obvious...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Thu May 31, 2018 11:02 am UTC

First, SDK has improved considerably with age.

Unvote: SDK

This latest bit about Vicarin (seeing own posts as scummy) isn't a 100% read — sometimes you do see how your words were construed differently than you were thinking — but added to the other weirdnesses, looks pretty bad. I will try to do one or two directed re-reads this afternoon. If nothing worse comes up, Vicarin is at the top of my lynchables list.
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moody7277
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Thu May 31, 2018 12:03 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Moody, what's with the unvote? It seems to me that you haven't explained what's changed about Mark in that post.


What's changed is that I've accepted that no one is going to be convinced there's a SK or werewolves until we have two dead bodies of a night, and there is no point in continuing a moot issue. I'll figure out a more useful place to put it before deadline.

plytho wrote:Perhaps that's the difference between the attitude of scum about to be lynched and scum seeing an opportunity to save themselves?


Cynical yet plausible. Maybe I should let myself be open to keeping with the opinion I had after getting to posts 18-20. After all, he himself admitted he could do his usual solid analysis thing while scum.

@plytho Does wam's post here cite the statement on which your concern is based?

And of course that last little bit between Sabrar and wam means they're obv scum team. :lol:
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:@plytho Does wam's post here cite the statement on which your concern is based?
No. It's more general and based in part on what you mention yourself:
moody7277 wrote:After all, he himself admitted he could do his usual solid analysis thing while scum.
With that in mind his new and improved content D2 feels like a performance.
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