Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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Vicarin
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 9:06 am UTC

I'm not quite sure why you'd think that scum!Me would explain what I was asking the question for, surely I would just stay quiet about it? And yes, I like guessing who are the PR's, as I have in every single game I've played so far. This isn't news.

Freezeblade did say a bit more near the end of page 4, but yeah, hasn't said much again. Fair bit of lurking going on in this game in general.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 9:27 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:I'm not quite sure why you'd think that scum!Me would explain what I was asking the question for, surely I would just stay quiet about it? And yes, I like guessing who are the PR's, as I have in every single game I've played so far. This isn't news.

Simple: Wine. You didn't find out anything, and people were asking you to give an explanation, so you had to say SOMETHING. Telling the truth and then saying "scum would never explain it" is classic wine.

There's a difference between trying to guess who the PRs are and actively trying to get them to reveal themselves, especially in this game which has a hefty number of vanillas around, who scum will presumably be trying to avoid hitting with the kill, in favour of PRs.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed May 30, 2018 9:28 am UTC

Got another one read - Vicarin:

Spoiler:
Confirm
Jokevote wam; Numbers 1–14 question.
Setup analysis – when does the mafia know the setup. WW/SK benefit most from distinguishing the setup
Something is liable to hit power town tonight, so Mafia will figure out the setup. Fruits should not be claimed.
Annoyed by Sabrar’s “don’t talk about something that I won’t mention”
Reads: 321 – wants to bandwagon; wam is touchy with reasonable reads; Mark – looks scummy but still new; Laserguy – neutral; plytho – generally positive, disagree with reads; SDK – solid reads; Madge — echos SDK; freezeblade — active lurk => regular lurk; disappointed with answers to questions
Votes freezeblade; Mark looks poor; Madge has ungrounded positive on Vicarin
Reads: moody – prob town; mpolo not driving discussion; jimbob lots of questions and reads, obvtown; Sabrar weird reads, currently neutral; votes me
Not reassured by SDK’s read of me (x2)
Doesn’t see connection of self with SDK/LaserGuy (from a wam comment)
Why would scum¹Vicarin explain reason for the number questions? Freezeblade still lurking


There is a certain rolefishiness to the way Vicarin wanted to see the numbers question play out. Setup analysis focuses pretty strongly about when the Mafia/WW will know the setup.

Conclusion: A little scummy, but SDK is probably slightly moreso.

Ninja-ed, but not a Vicarin post, so I don't have to redo this.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 9:28 am UTC

SDK wrote:Huh, true enough. It was written right beforehand. I think what I was remembering was that I chose not to correct myself or retract the question after the fact? Same general idea anyway.
I don't believe you'd remember this wrong. I think you fabricated this memory and slipped.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I can understand his vote on SDK for "making stuff up". I'd like a response from SDK on that before commenting on it further.
Please comment further.

SDK's vote on me is weird.
SDK wrote:I folks don't want to lynch Sabrar with me, I'd be game for plytho if thats more appealing.
I don't think it is.

LaserGuy wrote:Liking mpolo and plytho's recent stuff.
You mean those [urlhttp://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4358352#p4358352]three[/url] posts I made since this:
LaserGuy wrote:But if I felt that someone was being overly cautious, not wanting to engage, and maybe a bit lurkier than I normally associate with them, that might be enough to put someone on the naughty list at this point.


wam wrote:If sdk is scum it looks like laser is trying to redirect the lynch at the last moment whilst still finding SDK scummy.
That's a good point.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm amazed nobody's pointed this out yet, but Vicarin has basically admitted that he's PR hunting, by saying that he used his numbers question as an attempt for people to breadcrumb.
That's pretty much what I thought Vicarin was doing (see my read on him), but blatant role-fishing fits his meta. Vicarin is scummy, but I'm much more confident in my SDK read.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed May 30, 2018 9:36 am UTC

I don't think I will be on again before deadline -- meetings, lunch, another meeting.
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Sabrar
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 9:36 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:If sdk is scum it looks like laser is trying to redirect the lynch at the last moment whilst still finding SDK scummy.
That's a good point.
I see how it could be interpreted that way but I find it much more likely that it's coming from scum!wam who wants to direct attention elsewhere after SDK's flip.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 9:46 am UTC

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I can understand his vote on SDK for "making stuff up". I'd like a response from SDK on that before commenting on it further.
Please comment further.
Fair request. Basically, I wanted to see his explanation for the timing thing, and it was simply a case of forgetting when he did things, according to him. I have a habit of doing this myself, and sometimes I feel like I'm trying to justify doing something and can't remember why I did it, so I almost make up a reason, that I think was liable (can't point to a specific example unfortunately), so I can certainly buy his explanation. If he'd responded in another way (admittedly, I don't know what that would look like), I'd not be looking happily at him.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 30, 2018 9:54 am UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Liking mpolo and plytho's recent stuff.
You mean those [urlhttp://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4358352#p4358352]three[/url] posts I made since this:
LaserGuy wrote:But if I felt that someone was being overly cautious, not wanting to engage, and maybe a bit lurkier than I normally associate with them, that might be enough to put someone on the naughty list at this point.


I also liked this one from just before I made that comment, but that's the first post of yours where I felt you were actually scumhunting.

I'm done for the night. Not liking that Madge, freezeblade and moody haven't really commented on today's likely lynch at all, but maybe we'll get lucky and they'll show up in the next few hours, or the mods will bless us with an extension.

Unvote

Almost made it through without voting, but I guess this is close enough :P

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 10:03 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:
wam wrote:If sdk is scum it looks like laser is trying to redirect the lynch at the last moment whilst still finding SDK scummy.
That's a good point.
I see how it could be interpreted that way but I find it much more likely that it's coming from scum!wam who wants to direct attention elsewhere after SDK's flip.
Also a good point. Is wam an early busser?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Basically, I wanted to see his explanation for the timing thing, and it was simply a case of forgetting when he did things, according to him. I have a habit of doing this myself, and sometimes I feel like I'm trying to justify doing something and can't remember why I did it, so I almost make up a reason, that I think was liable (can't point to a specific example unfortunately), so I can certainly buy his explanation.
It's not really the timing thing that's bothering me. It's not "oh he forgot that it wasn't in his reads, ergo scum". It's "his explanation for the question involves deciding whether to delete the question or not, which can't happen if it's in an earlier post and seems like something he would remember". Also, if that was the only thing it wouldn't bother me all that much. The problem is that this is happening while explaining away an earlier blunder: the 'accidental' rolefishing.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 10:04 am UTC

Unofficial Votals:

Madge (1) : Mark_Cangila
Mark_Cangila (2) : Madge, moody7277
SDK (4) : plytho, wam, mpolo, Sabrar
mpolo (1) : Vicarin
plytho (1) : SDK
Vicarin (1): jimbobmacdoodle

Not Voting (2) : freezeblade, threetwoone

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Deadline is Wednesday 30th May 3PM GMT+1

Or, in less than 3 hours.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 10:05 am UTC

EBWOP: I removed LaserGuy's vote but forgot to add him to the not voting group
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 10:30 am UTC

Well, let's do this I guess. Not much time remaining and all.

Unvote: mpolo

Vote: SDK

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 11:59 am UTC

Uh, does anyone else have anything to discuss or is SDK just going to get lynched without any further talking?

Here's hoping for a replacement and an extension...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 12:01 pm UTC

Probably a D2 question but laser why did you only unvote and not vote for SDK?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 12:20 pm UTC

I don't really think SDK is likely to be scum, so I think somebody else from amongst my scum picks (Vicarin, Mark, freezeblade, wam) should be lynched. I'm interested to hear who from the non-SDK voters think he is/isn't scum.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 12:43 pm UTC

Uhh, I guess madge won't be posting anymore D1 (unless there's an extension) link
Maybe a quote ping:
Madge wrote:(unless I miss deadline when is it again I'm very sorry)
It is now!!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed May 30, 2018 12:45 pm UTC

Well I did get a second to read this. I don't think anything I could possibly do at this point would be a good move — too close to deadline. SDK is still my best lead.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Wed May 30, 2018 12:48 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@moody I don't see the case on Mark at all. can you explain your vote on him in a bit more detail? You gave him "slightly scummy" in your reads, then just kind of naked voted for him a bit later.


To reiterate, I figure that he might be a werewolf because of his seemingly over-interest in them early on considering the low probability of their being in the game. Obviously, no one else is convinced by this, so I'm probably not going to be able to make a case for it. We'll likely find out if there's a second killing faction out there soon enough. By the way, the PM thing is not something I found scummy because it's not the kind of PM thing I've come to dislike.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm amazed nobody's pointed this out yet, but Vicarin has basically admitted that he's PR hunting, by saying that he used his numbers question as an attempt for people to breadcrumb.


Well, that sounds pretty sinister. Vicarin saying that he's always interested in finding PRs doesn't really help since there's really only one time town needs to do this.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Diemo
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Diemo » Wed May 30, 2018 1:54 pm UTC

Extension, sure. Lets give you till Friday.

How great is the danger of a modkill? Or is replacement still likely?


A replacement is pretty unlikely - both of our replacements have read spoilers as well.

Does anyone have an objection to zombie replacements?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 1:56 pm UTC

no objection to zombie replacements
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Vicarin
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 2:01 pm UTC

No objection

Unvote: SDK

seeing as we have more time for analysis again.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed May 30, 2018 2:11 pm UTC

I'm honestly split on voting SDK or Vic. SDK's role-fishing is suspicious, as he didn't know I was asking about posting restriction. Vic is suspicious because his game so far has gone against Town!Vic meta. He's been subdued. Even with RP, it still seems suspicious imo. However, SDK's actions could have been a slip, and Vic could have been quiet due to RP.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 2:17 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:Extension, sure. Lets give you till Friday.
Same time?

no objection to zombie-replacement Though would much prefer a proper replacement to be found by friday.

I'm perfectly happy with my vote where it is.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I'm interested to hear who from the non-SDK voters think he is/isn't scum.
I second this question.

This extension-at-deadline is pretty nice, since it will give us twice the wagon analysis.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Wed May 30, 2018 2:21 pm UTC

For reference:
Unofficial Votals at deadline:

Madge (1) : Mark_Cangila
Mark_Cangila (2) : Madge, moody7277
SDK (5) : plytho, wam, mpolo, Sabrar, Vicarin
plytho (1) : SDK
Vicarin (1): jimbobmacdoodle

Not Voting (3) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, threetwoone

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed May 30, 2018 2:24 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't really think SDK is likely to be scum, so I think somebody else from amongst my scum picks (Vicarin, Mark, freezeblade, wam) should be lynched. I'm interested to hear who from the non-SDK voters think he is/isn't scum.

I'm leaning that he is scummy based on role-fishing. However, that could have been a mistake. I still think Vic is more scummy tho.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 2:34 pm UTC

Mark, do you think Vicarin is scummy for his role fishing?

No issues with zombie replacement
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed May 30, 2018 2:48 pm UTC

No issue with zombie replacements
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 3:01 pm UTC

Vicarin seems to be a lot quotes under suspicion than I remeber him being in previous games. Will have a look back for examples.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 30, 2018 3:17 pm UTC

Those saying I haven't responded since P4...You know that by the time you posted that, it had just barely been 12 hours since I posted, right? I'm in California, so I posted at 10:30ish AM, and jimbob's post "calling me out" was just after midnight for me. On D1.

vote: Jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 3:18 pm UTC

plytho wrote:no objection to zombie-replacement Though would much prefer a proper replacement to be found by friday.
+1, QFT, etc

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 30, 2018 3:18 pm UTC

oh. and no problem with zombie replacements
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 3:29 pm UTC

Well that's good news. I'm pretty sure that would have only been the second time I've ever been lynched on this site (the first when I was copped mafia). Must be losing my touch. By which I mean, my mistakes this game show that I am losing my touch, or at least my memory!

So! Let's see if we can catch scum instead. I'll do a handful of player analysis posts today. But first, some outstanding questions from last night...

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:Now I'm even more confused. Are you saying I'm doing that this game?
You really don't understand?

Yes, really. I know you're voting me now and I truly have no idea why. I mean, sure, you're on the same stuff plytho is, but everything else you've brought up makes no sense to me. I even had a good laugh when I considered that you might be town suggesting that you really, secretly thought I was town and just looking for a fight for fun (or to protect me from the nightkill?). Apparently not. Care to explain?

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:wam and freezeblade also don't really have much to analyze properly, and in any case, I'm starting to feel like they may be town.
What exactly has wam done since this post that made you change your mind?

Nothing. I didn't have very strong reasons for suspecting wam in the first place. Rereading his posts had me feeling a little off about that read, plus with Vicarin making his way up the list wam was looking less likely. Not that interested in pursuing wam at this point, at least.


plytho wrote:There's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm.

Right, but I wrote the question before seeing that it was from his role PM.


wam's reads list feels pretty good. He's bang on about Madge. I'll get to plytho in a minute, wam.


moody7277 wrote:Then again, the SDK wagon was rolling along rather well for reasons that on first look are kind of serious and should be something I ought to delve into.

Yeah, you really should. Why didn't you?


jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@SDK - are you saying plytho might be scum for advising Mark to NOT answer the question? Or are you referring to the later comments you make against plytho?

No, no, the later comments. Reading plytho's big post thinking it was you was shaking my read. Thankfully you're still town.

By the way, I hopped on freezeblade to see what threetwoone (and others) would do with that. If it had somehow led to a lynch, that wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world, but I figured it could lead to some good info.


Mark's post is decent. Comes down on a few players with good reasons, though Mark, you skipped your read of Sabrar. Pretty sure Mark is town anyway.


mpolo is almost certainly town. Again, this is based more on style than anything else.


LaserGuy wrote:I also don't like that SDK hasn't really attempted to refute this case, particularly, and seems intent on pushing this as scum-motivated, which I don't buy at all.

Can you explain this whole sentence? What do you think I should be refuting that I haven't, and how have I been pushing the PM thing as scum-motivated?


Whew. That took longer than expected. You guys post a lot, but there's lots left to do! Back in a jiffy with plytho.

PS: Zombie replacements should be a last resort (especially if they were killed by the mafia), but if you've tried and failed to find anyone else, it's better than a modkill.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 3:32 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Those saying I haven't responded since P4...You know that by the time you posted that, it had just barely been 12 hours since I posted, right? I'm in California, so I posted at 10:30ish AM, and jimbob's post "calling me out" was just after midnight for me. On D1.

vote: Jimbobmacdoodle
Where exactly are you referring to when I called you out?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 30, 2018 3:37 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
freezeblade wrote:Those saying I haven't responded since P4...You know that by the time you posted that, it had just barely been 12 hours since I posted, right? I'm in California, so I posted at 10:30ish AM, and jimbob's post "calling me out" was just after midnight for me. On D1.

vote: Jimbobmacdoodle
Where exactly are you referring to when I called you out?


viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124758&start=160#p4358565 In this post. which was at 12:27am my time.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 3:53 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
freezeblade wrote:Those saying I haven't responded since P4...You know that by the time you posted that, it had just barely been 12 hours since I posted, right? I'm in California, so I posted at 10:30ish AM, and jimbob's post "calling me out" was just after midnight for me. On D1.

vote: Jimbobmacdoodle
Where exactly are you referring to when I called you out?


viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124758&start=160#p4358565 In this post. which was at 12:27am my time.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Will review my vote in the morning, based on what Mark and freezeblade post whilst I'm asleep.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Freezeblade's not said anything else, but nobody else looks to support his lynch
I was referring to the time since my reads list, which I'd done the night before from my point of view. I'd promised at the time to review where my vote was in the morning, based on additional content, primarily from you and Mark, as I was conscious that you could well post more content whilst I was asleep, and wanted to allow for that. You didn't, hence my comment. I didn't really call you out for it (i.e. I wasn't calling you a lurker for not posting anything).
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Wed May 30, 2018 3:54 pm UTC

Apologies, I mis-read your intentions in your post.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 5:15 pm UTC

First up: plytho.
Spoiler:
plytho starts the game with some setup spec specifically revolving around which factions know what. I don't know about you guys, but this was not the first thing I was thinking, at least not from the town side. Thinking about what the mafia might know makes sense, but plytho is analyzing this from the view of a PR. Mafia would think about that aspect, trying to see what information their opponents have. I think town is less inclined to consider that.

This becomes even more important during his conversation with Sabrar about the Fruit Vendor and whether or not someone who received a piece of fruit should say so. This continues for a couple posts before plytho can understand the importance to town. He ultimately disagrees that it's worth it, which is fine, but it seems to me he's having trouble seeing the value from the townside. Odd, considering he's the only one who considered the townside in his first analysis.

plytho says this later in response to LaserGuy, but I agree (and said before) that plytho's absences and content felt off at this point.

First real content is plytho's reads post. Let's break it down.
- jimbob is read as "neutral to slightly scummy" for one small thing - calling freezeblade a lurker. I think the only way to read jimbob as scummy at this point is to not have tried very hard to get that read.
- Madge is read as "scummy" which again just doesn't fit. plytho brings up her tunneling Mark as scummy, but knows both Madge and bessie well enough to expect exactly what we're getting here. He points to her "defense of freezeblade" but I have no idea how you see anything but headbutting Sabrar in that post, or the one following. Her criticisms of his freezeblade read seem to be coming from the right place, she's not overly defensive about it, and she's still talking about a lot more. Basically, plytho's scummy read of Madge is about as uncharitable as you can get.
- Tunnels in on his Madge read while reading Mark. I agree that Mark is likely town. plytho's final comment about scum pressuring Mark bugs me a bit. He's either letting other reads bleed over into this one, or he's trying to put more nails in Madge's coffin.
- Sabrar is read with "a general town feel", but I don't see that in plytho's work. Maybe I'm being too harsh here. I had the impression that plytho didn't really read Sabrar, but he does state that "I always have trouble reading Sabrar D1", and seems to just be basing his read on the fact that Sabrar's reads mirror his own. That's probably fair enough.
- SDK read is essentially neutral ("Gut says slightly scummy"), but I don't get the impression he really tried to read me. The only comment he really make is that my "reads/prod post has some good stuff" and leaves it at that. Is the scummy read just because I didn't make my list in order?

This doesn't feel quite as damning as the first time I went through it. I really don't like his read on Madge and I think he's being very unforgiving in a few places (and ignoring other aspects to drill on particulars). He didn't try to read Sabrar or me... which I took to be scummy, but perhaps he's just resigned himself to not being able to? Not sure.

plytho outs Mark as probably-not-vanilla-town, which rubbed me the wrong way, though I can see now his motivation for doing so. I didn't get before that his read on me grew organically from that, but on reread that's fairly obvious. I didn't make the same catch and thought he was doing this for bad reasons, followed by jumping on me along with other people, but that's not really how it all went down (especially if plytho saw that catch as obvious).

Likewise, at the time I took plytho's iso of Mark and Madge to be useless busy work, but now that I'm reading his posts in more detail, moving his thought process along, it feels much more natural for plytho to be confirming his read on Madge (considering it's in opposition to most other players).

Spends most of the rest of his time grilling me, which is fine, but unforgiving. I have made mistakes, but plytho seems unwilling to even consider that an option. Maybe I'm biased, but the slips seem pretty weak to me even if I did have the scum motivation his pinning to me. PR fishing is about all he's got, and I doubt you could find even one example of me PR fishing in any of my past scum games. It's just not something I would attempt - high risk, low reward. Given that, it seems to me that he's tunneling in a bad way here now. In light of everything else, this along with the minor stuff in the beginning are not really enough to carry a scum read.

Guess I talked myself out of that one. Still suspicious of plytho for three minor things (setup spec, uncharitable reads, and tunneling), but I can see a townie mindset behind most of what he's doing now. Taken individually I didn't like it. Looking at the package helped me to make more sense out of what he's been trying to do.

Unvote

Next up: Vicarin.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 6:00 pm UTC

Hello SDK-friend!! I'm so glad we got an extension and I can try to get to know you better! I feel like we hadn't talked enough... Could you maybe answer a few short questions so that I will be able to follow your thoughts?

What was your actual opinion when you posted this in Alien Warfare? Were you really satisfied with Sabar's explanation? Your read feels like stream-of-consciousness (which I can relate to very well :D ) and your end-conclusion lets him off the hook.

SDK wrote:By the way, I hopped on freezeblade to see what threetwoone (and others) would do with that. If it had somehow led to a lynch, that wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world,
Could you elaborate on this? What information were you hoping to get out of a lurker-lynch?

SDK wrote:mpolo is almost certainly town. Again, this is based more on style than anything else.
I feel that post contains very little of mpolo's style. Which scum!mpolo game is the base of your comparison?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 6:26 pm UTC

Undesirable Number Two: Vicarin
Spoiler:
Vicarin's numbers game is strange, but I'm not at all sure that it was scum motivated. PR hunting is not something scum do regularly. Like I said earlier, it's a high risk, low reward play. This particular method of role fishing is extra questionable as well - Vicarin says later that it looks like no one chose to breadcrumb using his numbers game, but I don't think he can even say that. Answering that question with your truthful role as a joke works just as well as anything. So, though I see no reason why town Vicarin would ask this question, I see little reason for scum Vicarin to attempt it either. Like, maaaaaybe he was thinking about asking "What game out of 14 does everything think we're in?" but obviously that's a terrible question that deserves to be lynched so he toned it down? I doubt it though. I don't know Vicarin, but ya'll seem happy to say that he usually hunts PR's as town, so I see no reason to hold this against him. His next post lays a nice foundation for this town motivation, so even less likely to suspect him based on that. (Vicarin does state that "there are 2 wolf setups and 3 SK setups that the wolf's/SK would loooove to distinguish between" saying that they do get the most info, but I doubt he'd be quite so brazen if he is one of those wolves).

Vicarin wrote:With regards to the fruit vendor speculation, I'd say that having the fruit vendor be able to act like an innocent child is way more important than trying to help narrow down the setup.
Hmm... That's a little worse, however. This contradicts the town Vicarin I was just talking about.

Vicarin's reads list breakdown!
- Chooses not to come down on Mark. Safe play.
- No real conclusion on plytho, which is troubling since he has conflicting reads here.
- Echos my thoughts on Madge rather than writing his own. Could just be lazy, could be scum going for an easy read.
Overall, a fine reads list, but doesn't give a lot to work with.

Next post puts the third vote on freezeblade (after jimbob and me). No additional justification, so this is essentially just a lurker vote, explicitly choosing one of the wagons with 2 votes already (other options are Madge and Mark, and justification is given for not choosing those). Possibly a scum bandwagon jump, but I'm not really seeing it.

Reads list, take 2 is about the same as the first. Not a lot of content, but decent reads. His read of Sabrar feels townie, in particular. Votes mpolo as a lurker. Kinda highlights a general lack of scum reads (Vicarin is reading a few people as neutral, but literally no one as scum). The fact that he's not concerned about this is concerning. Might have to do a meta check on that one.

Next post feels a bit defensive re: wam's comment. Also very much just going with the flow for both my wagon and his own read of mpolo. Vicarin started with mpolo based on nothing but lurker, and now doesn't seem inclined to think about his read even though mpolo has actually given some content. Not a fan.


Okay, quick meta check... Looking at Newbie New Year mafia (where Vic was town cop). Oh, was that Vic's first game!? You guys are all ready to judge based on meta for someone who's played only two previous games (one of which was the Alien gongshow)? Geez.

I also don't see a big difference here. Votes without much supporting reasoning alongside, has a T/S list without a strong scum read, posts short thoughts on random subjects... You guys said he was so townie it hurts, but I don't really see that either. Feels pretty similar to me. Meta check: unconvincing.


Overall, Vicarin is a bit concerning.

Vicarin:
- You started your numbers game thinking people might be able to breadcrumb. You seemed disappointed that apparently no one chose to play. 1) What would that hypothetical breadcrumb post have looked like? 2) Can you explain the advantage that both town and mafia would have gained if someone had breadcrumbed in that way?
- You have no real scum reads of your own. Is this concerning to you? Why or why not?
- Please explain why am I scum.
- Who (apart from me) is scum, and why?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 6:39 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Hello SDK-friend!! I'm so glad we got an extension and I can try to get to know you better! I feel like we hadn't talked enough... Could you maybe answer a few short questions so that I will be able to follow your thoughts?

Of course! I'm always happy to answer questions when they are asked so nicely, so peacefully and so whale-like.

Sabrar wrote:What was your actual opinion when you posted this in Alien Warfare? Were you really satisfied with Sabar's explanation? Your read feels like stream-of-consciousness (which I can relate to very well :D ) and your end-conclusion lets him off the hook.

That was my first post in-game, so my vote for you was a late RVS vote since voting for you is fun. That entire paragraph is me trying to pretend I have the town wincon and move through your early blunders that the town picked up on and (I thought) hammered harder than they really should have. Yes, it was stream-of-consciousness. Yes, you did "convince me" only because everyone else seemed to be convinced.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:By the way, I hopped on freezeblade to see what threetwoone (and others) would do with that. If it had somehow led to a lynch, that wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world,
Could you elaborate on this? What information were you hoping to get out of a lurker-lynch?

The lurker lynch was unlikely to happen, but if it did it wouldn't be so bad. Lynching the lurker was not where info was coming from, though. The information was who was willing to go for a lurker lynch over whatever other reads they might have. Presenting a valid option to try to tear people away from their reads tends to be a good way to determine the strength (or truth) of their reads. We hadn't had a good wagon yet, and I like getting at least one going before we finally settle on a lynch for Day 1.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:mpolo is almost certainly town. Again, this is based more on style than anything else.
I feel that post contains very little of mpolo's style. Which scum!mpolo game is the base of your comparison?

Seaside and Ghost are the two mpolo scum games I remember off-hand. There may be more. It's been a year since I last played with him (or anyone), so it's possible he's changed, but he was extremely consistent in his play over the... three years I played with him regularly. It's not like I have to go back and reference games when I'm reading mpolo. His particular meta just tends to naturally ping my scumdar.


I asked you some questions too, friend. I would appreciate some answers, above all on why you are voting for me.
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