Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Pre-game

Postby SDK » Mon May 28, 2018 8:19 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:you are scum :)

Do you really mean it this time, or are you just toying with my heart again?

You gave Mark, Vicarin, wam and jimbob as your presumably real list of scum earlier. Any justification for those reads?


@LaserGuy: Why plytho?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Mon May 28, 2018 8:23 pm UTC

Some quick reads here, with spoilered observations:

Freezeblade:
Spoiler:
will vote people who base votes on confirmations; votes jimbob; random grouping of everyone, team orange is suspect, team green gives indie vibes
Very low on content due to the weekend. I felt like he was more active than usual but that was jimbob’s avatar :) Suspicious only through his link to Madge. More content needed. Slightly scummy.

jimbobmacdoodle:
Spoiler:
doesn't have much to say, votes wam (2nd) no point in setup spec, provides numbers; freezeblade should vote him; agrees with sabrar re:fruit claiming, asks laserGuy why Sabrar is town; fos sabrar for calling everyone scummy, prods the newbies; moody's read of sabrar is off; "brief reads", freezeblade, mark, vicarin, wam scummy, votes freezeblade, first fruit should claim; threetwoone should vote and provide reasoning if he wants to wagon freezeblade, what strategy is mark talking about?, asks mark for reads other than Madge;
Jimbob’s play has been reasonable so far, his reads list looks solid but I feel like calling freezeblade an active lurker after 1 rvs day and 2 weekend days is a bit harsh. Neutral to slightly scummy.

LaserGuy:
Spoiler:
nice madge roleplay, calls vicarin scum and Sabrar town, provides numbers; Madge and Mark on the nice list; maybe wants commuter to claim, jimbob town, moody null
I am absolutely loving the roleplay! I was going to say something about him being low on content, but that fits Madge’s meta so it’s fine. Overall townie vibe from LaserGuy. I like his reads.

Madge:
Spoiler:
nice bessie roleplay, doesn't like me saying I expect 10-3, thinks mark has daychat, doesn't like fruit claims; does the math on werewolves, pushes mark, disagrees with Sabrar on freezeblade, agrees on Mark; @moody:why {sabrar, madge, fb}?; fan of BUN; likes moody's read on wam/Mark, points out jimbob agrees with her, defends freezeblade again, is nice to Mark; asks mark why he's interested in her role; madge vs mark contd., hesitant about fruit vendor claim; votes mark, discusses fruit claim possibilities;
Madge as bessie is the best! Not just because Madge is great at the roleplay, but because it gives us a lot more Madge :)

I’m not convinced she’s town, though. Her call-out of Mark is odd: she assumes daychat over an actual mod question (and she’s good at math so she knows odds of daychat are very low). She responds to Sabrar’s reads list by defending Freezeblade and herself. Doubles down on the freezeblade defense. The freezeblade defense feels unnecessary and the Mark tunnel feels unfounded. scummy



Mark_Cangila:
Spoiler:
doesn't get the roleplaying; wants an answer from madge to his early questino about werewolves; Madge not answering about werewolves is suspicious, asked mod a question about role-pm; defends his werewolf question, votes madge for avoiding his question; madge may be werewolf, is scared of werewolf-beneficial strategies;

I don’t get the pressure on Mark. I think he’s newbie town. He picked something to talk about, got a response from it and followed through. I feel scum is more likely to pressure Mark.

moody:
Spoiler:
provides numbers, likes bunnies; worried about 9-2-2, no comment on fruit, responds to wams request to discuss the early wam wagoneers, asks wam about {sabrar, madge, freezeblade}; reads: freezeblade, mark and wam scummy, jimbob, madge, mpolo, me, sabrar, vicarin townie; would watch Mark, wam or LaserGuy
I’m neutral on moody. Maybe a slight town lean because the people he asks wam about contain the two I notice a link between (madge-freezeblade). I’m confused about his watch list, though, and I disagree that wam was very defensive of Mark.

mpolo:
Spoiler:
seems to be unaware that roles are public, doesn't have access to the matrix 14 setup; looked at setup, fruit vendor is for town hints, can be bluffed against, likes setup 6; concerned about SDK's 3rd vote, doesn't understand the pressure on mark, neutral re:fruit;
Only a handful of posts, little noticeable content. Neutral.


Sabrar:
Spoiler:
first post, nice PW RP, wants fruit receiver to claim; jimbob doesn't vote 2nd in rvs except when he's scum, provides numbers, corrects SDK; doesn't understand why I don't want fruit receivers to claim; discussion follows; asks threetwoone to contribute; early reads, everyone is scummy; likes threetwoone, moody is probably town, would lynch Marc, Vicarin, wam or jimbobmacdoodle; doubles down on freezeblade's low content, Madge seems to disagree with everything Sabrar says; disagrees with madge's question to mark (role/scumhunting); likes the newbies but they should participate more, asks each for opinions on a number of players, I'm not mafia, likes laserguy but not his reads, there's content that shouldn't be discussed;
Sabrar’s PW roleplay is great. It does make him a little harder to read (and I always have trouble reading Sabrar D1). I’m getting a general town feel from Sabrar. I agree with most of his reads.

SDK:
Spoiler:
provides mpolo with info on the matrix 14 setup, votes wam (3rd to vote); more setup explanation; agree's with sabrar's point re:fruit claiming; asks mark about pm, suspicious of sabrar's request; reads/prod list, not liking Sabrar, freezeblade,wam,
SDK’s post before today had no content. This reads/prod post has some good stuff, but I’d like to see it in a town-to-scum. I can’t put an alignment on him. Gut says slightly scummy.

threetwoone:
Spoiler:
wants to know why they're in the only non-fruit team; doesn't know heury, won't be as active as in forum games as mafia takes more time, 3rd mafia game, won't be good at hunting; madge doesn't have to disagree with sabrar or she'd have disagreed with that; wants to wagon freezeblade?
Really need more content from threetwoone. He isn’t answering questions. His push for a freezeblade lynch is interesting and doesn’t feel like something newbie scum would do, though.


Vicarin:
Spoiler:
explicitly states he's town, votes wam (1st to vote), asks for people's favourite numbers; werewolves benefit more from setup claims than mafia ; points out the mistake in my response, fruit vendor should act like innocent child, will be back in a bit;
Starts of rolefishy with the favourite number questions, then again, vicarin is always rolefishy. Not a lot of other content. Where are the promised reads? Contrasting with his very townie play in alien warfare he’s looking somewhat scummy here.


wam:
Spoiler:
2/3 of SDK, jimbob and vicarin are scum; mark is townie for being more chatty; rvs pile-on is scummy, mark lurked as scum; doesn't like sabrar switching from nonchalant to defensive on him, weird vibe off sabrar, likes madges content, freezeblade neutral because more active;
I’m fine with wam’s defense of Mark. I disagree he’s overly defensive. It was one defensive post + response to questions. Not a lot of content here, though. Neutral.

plytho
LaserGuy
Mark
Sabrar
moody
Threetwoone
mpolo
wam
jimbobmacroodle
Freezeblade
SDK
Vicarin
Madge


SDK wrote:wam, plytho and mpolo, please tell me whether or not you'd like to hop on this freezeblade wagon.
I wouldn't.

Vote:Madge

Need more content/reads lists from Freezeblade, Vicarin, threetwoone, wam, mpolo

pff, I'm exhausted..
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Mon May 28, 2018 8:28 pm UTC

At the moment I'm not going to get on the freeze wagon. It's reading like D1 freeze to me. I was away am now back so will do a full reads list tomorrow.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Pre-game

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 28, 2018 8:59 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Do you really mean it this time, or are you just toying with my heart again?
I really mean it.

SDK wrote:You gave Mark, Vicarin, wam and jimbob as your presumably real list of scum earlier. Any justification for those reads?
Mark: early focus on the Werewolf question at the expense of everything else.
Vicarin: not obv!Town Vicarin means scum!Vicarin.
wam: tryhard defense against joke-post.
jimbob: FoS on me is way too early, he should be aware that lately I'm liable to gambit.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Mon May 28, 2018 9:45 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Oh, and before I forget. There is a particular piece of content out there that I don't want to be discussed today. Players from Newbie New Year Mafia might understand what and why...
Can you explain why better than referring to NNYM because I'm avoiding talking about something based on your request and I don't see why it should be kept quiet.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 28, 2018 9:55 pm UTC

What I'm referring to should be obviously not discussed D1, D2 we'll have more info whether it's even relevant. If the something you're talking about does not fit this description then evidently I have another issue else in mind.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Mon May 28, 2018 10:15 pm UTC

At the risk of missing something obvious.

I'm talking about Mark's claim that he asked a question about his role pm, which implies it's not the vanilla town role pm. Which is why I'm not liking Madge's push of mark and SDK's question about what exactly mark asked about.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Diemo » Mon May 28, 2018 11:49 pm UTC

I'm looking for a replacement now.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Mon May 28, 2018 11:54 pm UTC

Ok, reads. No particular order.

threetwoone: hasn't posted much, wanted to randomly go on a bandwagon, apparently needs to check what to do after reading a spoiler. Not sure what to make of this.

wam: touchy about the 3 early votes on him, seems overly defensive calling 2 of the voters scum immediately. Later claims to be fishing for reactions. Has been providing reasonable reads. Feels a bit different from Stellaris and Alien, so townie.

Mark_Cangila: given how I thought his newbieness in Alien was not terribly indicative, but then he turned out to be scum, not sure what to make of him currently...

LaserGuy: amazing RP, but not providing reasons for reads unless pressed because of it. Eh, they seem mostly ok? Maybe? Have to keep an eye on him.

plytho: been asking good questions, I like what he's been doing overall. Still salty about him being Illaman last game though :x Also I disagree with a fair few of his reads...

SDK: solid reads list (though he wants mine to work with). Liking what I'm seeing so far.

Madge: wow, RPing as bessie makes her content skyrocket. Like most of what she's been doing, echo SDK's thoughts on the particulars.

freezeblade: not providing much to work with, agree with the active lurking charge. Also regular lurking now.

Still organizing my thoughts on Sabrar, jimbob, mpolo and moody, and I don't want to lose this post to my phone eating it.

On a side note, I'm kind of disappointed with the answers to my questions in my first post. Oh well.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 4:14 am UTC

plytho wrote:I'm talking about Mark's claim that he asked a question about his role pm, which implies it's not the vanilla town role pm. Which is why I'm not liking Madge's push of mark and SDK's question about what exactly mark asked about.
I'm talking about something else. I have also noted the above but given that his question could potentially relate to his post-restriction I felt it was not a certain indicator. I feel SDK's 'role-fish' is worse than Madge's push.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 5:37 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:On a side note, I'm kind of disappointed with the answers to my questions in my first post. Oh well.
What was the purpose? Which answer would you have found townie/scummy?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby bessie » Tue May 29, 2018 6:12 am UTC

The children laughed and shouted accusations at each other. It appeared they were having fun at their game.

plytho: I think Madge is the scummiest, I want to vote for her.
bessie: I want to vote for Madge too!
LaserGuy: bessie you don’t get to vote, you’re not playing.
mpolo: It’s going to be time to go home soon, maybe we should take another count.
moody7277: Can I vote for myself?
Diemo: Well I guess it’s not against the rules.


Official Votals:

jimbobmacdoodle (1) : freezeblade
Madge (2) : Mark_Cangila, plytho
freezeblade (2) : jimbobmacdoodle, SDK
Mark_Cangila (1) : Madge
moody7277 (1) : moody7277

Not Voting (6) : LaserGuy, mpolo, Sabrar, threetwoone, Vicarin, wam

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.


Deadline is Wednesday 30th May 3PM GMT+1

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Tue May 29, 2018 6:37 am UTC

[Quote=Mark_canigla]
No. I'm scared because a strategy that would be good without a Werewolf could possibly be awful for town with a Werewolf.[/quote]

What sort of strategy would meet this?

plytho wrote:At the risk of missing something obvious.

I'm talking about Mark's claim that he asked a question about his role pm, which implies it's not the vanilla town role pm. Which is why I'm not liking Madge's push of mark and SDK's question about what exactly mark asked about.


I agree with plytho, I strongly feel that for game reasons this is not a line of questioning we should pursue.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 7:04 am UTC

request modprod on Freezeblade

who is being replaced?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 7:14 am UTC

We're well past the weekend now. Freezeblade's absence is starting to be suspicious.

I'm assuming the replacement is for threetwoone, but I asked just in case. I don't want to push people that aren't in the game anymore.

Sabrar wrote:I feel SDK's 'role-fish' is worse than Madge's push.
I agree. But Madge remains lower on my list because she also has that defense of Freezeblade that seems unnecessary (at that point). SDK should be the close second scummiest on my list but, as I was avoiding this bit, I could not motivate that there.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Diemo » Tue May 29, 2018 8:00 am UTC

Oh sorry, threetwoone is being replaced.

freezeblade has been prodded.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Madge » Tue May 29, 2018 8:06 am UTC

I love Sabrar as Peaceful Whale. I didn’t see it at first but now I really do!

Sabrar wrote:Feels very weird Madge complimenting herself...

Come on, that’s pretty standard, no? Any excuse to talk about herself…

Sabrar wrote:Oh, and before I forget. There is a particular piece of content out there that I don't want to be discussed today. Players from Newbie New Year Mafia might understand what and why...

You’d better be out with it as soon as D2 rolls around or you’re in big trouble.

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:plytho - Nearly skipped him on my way past, due to thinking it was me :lol:.
I start rereading my own posts thinking it’s you :)

I start reading Laserguy’s posts expecting nuanced critique from an attractive and intelligent person—which of course I get regardless :lol:

SDK wrote:LaserGuy (as Madge):
Is your posting restriction that you're not allowed to have reads Day 1? If not, please get on it. I have literally nothing to go off of with you.

Seconded.

LaserGuy wrote:Madge, have you seen orange? It looks awful on everything. There is no situation where it is better to use orange rather than yellow or red. I'm sure you're paying attention because you never miss ANYTHING so you already know what I think about the members of the Orange tribe.

Why can’t you just say what you think? It’s not a hard question! If I didn’t have a vote down on Mark already I’d be placing it down on you. I love placing votes D1 because I can get so much out of peoples’ posts and I wish I had more than one but I am not the secret double voter.

SDK wrote:Oddly enough, I feel like I might be able to more easily get a read on Madge in future games after this excercise! :P

Nonsense. LaserGuy has been very unMadge-like in this. I feel like he’s not complained about D1 and loudly complained he should have signed up as a replacement but then loudly opined that he’d still be replacing in D1 and wouldn’t have gotten to choose who he played.

moody7277 wrote:@Madge: How do you feel about Sabrar being cagey about some ultra powerful tidbit he's found?

Typical Sabrar, which means I don’t like it. He really should just be out with it.

LaserGuy wrote:freezeblade is on the naughty list, but I'd rather lynch Vicarin or plytho over freezeblade at this point.

What on earth has happened that makes you so happy to vote people off on Day 1 :lol:

plytho wrote:Jimbob’s play has been reasonable so far, his reads list looks solid but I feel like calling freezeblade an active lurker after 1 rvs day and 2 weekend days is a bit harsh. Neutral to slightly scummy.

Agreed. Thank you for pointing this out.

plytho wrote:Not just because Madge is great at the roleplay, but because it gives us a lot more Madge :)

I am honoured by your compliments but I regret that I cannot commit to this playstyle long-term. I don’t know how bessie does it!

plytho wrote:I’m not convinced she’s town, though. Her call-out of Mark is odd: she assumes daychat over an actual mod question (and she’s good at math so she knows odds of daychat are very low). She responds to Sabrar’s reads list by defending Freezeblade and herself. Doubles down on the freezeblade defense. The freezeblade defense feels unnecessary and the Mark tunnel feels unfounded. scummy

Advice: don’t take my reads as seriously as you’d take bessie’s. At the end of the day I am a greyhound in a golden retriever suit, so whatever you do, don’t hook me up to a blind person and expect me to know how to guide them! I gotta RUN for about 45 seconds when I hear a NOISE OUTSIDE oh my GOODNESS and then spend the next 23.99 hours on the couch having a nap to recover.

… given the Madge is at risk of leaking too much out of this bessie-shaped mask, here’s a woof-grr list:

Woof
Vicarin
Sabrar
Mpolo (if he ever lies I’d be very surprised)
SDK
Moody
Threetwoone
plytho
Wam
Jimbob
Freezeblade
Laserguy
Mark
Grr
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 29, 2018 8:30 am UTC

I don't know how it is where freezeblade lives, but it was a three day weekend in England this weekend. Freezeblade doesn't generally posts on weekends, so that might explain his lack of post yesterday too. Also, it's D1, and should be hated.

I was very busy yesterday playing ALL the games, so I read, but didn't really take in most of the content. Will try to reread the last couple of pages now and later this evening. Also, FYI, I will be volunteering at the UK Games Expo from Friday to Sunday, so my posting will be limited during this time period.
Sabrar wrote:
Vicarin wrote:On a side note, I'm kind of disappointed with the answers to my questions in my first post. Oh well.
What was the purpose? Which answer would you have found townie/scummy?
I'd like to know the answer too.

I have no idea what Sabrar is on about re. thing not to discuss, so sorry if I bring it up. I'm not going to reread NNY just to figure it out.
Sabrar wrote:jimbob: FoS on me is way too early, he should be aware that lately I'm liable to gambit.
I will FoS people I find suspicious. If you decide to gambit, that is your choice - it doesn't mean you aren't suspicious. How do I know it's not scum!Sabrar actually posting that list, for example? You will note however that it wasn't a vote and that I have accepted your explanation (I don't always bother UnFoSsing if it's obvious my opinion changed).

I don't like plytho's reads list. He finds freezeblade suspicious because someone else is (specifically my towniest read), and suspicious for calling out freezeblade on his active lurking (he had multiple posts, so plenty of opportunity to provide content). Labelling Madge as his scummiest read, when she'ss my towniest read isn't great. Him having SDK in his ordered list at third scummiest despite having apparently good reads also doesn't sit well with me.

Okay, that's all I've got time for now. Ninja'ed by Madge.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 8:48 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:You will note however that it wasn't a vote and that I have accepted your explanation
I'm aware, question related to an earlier point in time.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 9:06 am UTC

I don't like plytho's reads list. He finds freezeblade suspicious because someone else is (specifically my towniest read), and suspicious for calling out freezeblade on his active lurking (he had multiple posts, so plenty of opportunity to provide content). Labelling Madge as his scummiest read, when she'ss my towniest read isn't great. Him having SDK in his ordered list at third scummiest despite having apparently good reads also doesn't sit well with me.
Yeah, my suspicion of freezeblade is linked to my suspicion of Madge. I can find both you and madge suspicious for your reads on freezeblade even though they're totally opposite. They both feel like overreactions. The SDK read I've explained [url]here[/url].
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 9:24 am UTC

EBWOP: Here
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 12:34 pm UTC

I'm isolating the madge vs Mark discussion to see if I notice anything new.

Mark:

Kicks off the conversation with a question about werewolves.
Responds to Madge's comment about his role-pm post by pointing out she dodged his question.
Explains his reasoning: wanted to start conversation, felt madge was dodging him.
votes Madge based on that reasoning.
Is scared about town strategies with and without werevolves potentially being different.

I don't agree with Mark's reasoning regarding why Madge is scummy. I don't think Madge is suspicious for 'forgetting' about the question. But I feel like he's coming from a townie place.

@Mark: multiple people have asked you to talk about people that aren't Madge, you can add me to the list. Please provide thoughts on others. Who's looking townie, who's looking scummy, who could be Madge's buddy and why?

Hmm, Mark has been gone for a while..

Mark_Cangila wrote:Sorry, I am not cut out for Meta-Mafia. I didn't except it to be so RP intensive.
As madge said, don't worry about that part and just enjoy the game. The roleplaying is just for fun.

Madge:

Thinks Mark is likely scum with daychat due to him asking about pm's.
Answers Mark's question about werewolves.
Supports moody's suspicion of Mark, thinks wam is a likely buddy. This line about jimbob agreeing with her feels sheepy.
Madge wrote:Good to see jimbob agrees with me on the above and I’m not just thinking strange thoughts to myself.

Madge seems way too focused on the daychat scenario and her logic isn't sound in this quote from this post:
Madge wrote:Are you scared that there’s a werewolf because you and your buddy have worked out that it’s likely the case based on your roles? Not sure what to do, who to target? Don’t look to me for help. I’ll help you find scum but I’m not helping scum to scum better.
If Mark and his buddy have daychat their roles are irrelevant re:werewolves as there's always an SK if scum has daychat.

@Madge: you're calling Mark scum based on daychat assumptions, is he still scum in no-daychat scenarios?

The trigger for madge to vote Mark is also odd, as it appears to be his fear of using the wrong strategy. Which, to me seems a perfectly reasonable newbie pov.

Generally I feel marks posts feel more genuine. I definitely think out of the two of them Madge is more likely scum. It could be TvT, with two misguided townies, but I can't shake my suspicion of Madge.

Other stuff:

Madge wrote:Advice: don’t take my reads as seriously as you’d take bessie’s
Bessie's read is clearly aligned with mine :D
bessie wrote:bessie: I want to vote for Madge too!


Btw, the thing that's particularly suspicious about SDK's question to mark is that Mark had previously stated it was a question about his role-pm, but SDK is asking 'what was that question about', masking his role fishing as a more innocent question.

There's something odd about moody confusing tracker and watcher.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't know how it is where freezeblade lives, but it was a three day weekend in England this weekend. Freezeblade doesn't generally posts on weekends, so that might explain his lack of post yesterday too.
Apparently it was memorial day in the US?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 1:52 pm UTC

Less than 24h to go.

@moody7277, LaserGuy, mpolo, Sabrar, Vicarin, wam: why are you not voting? Please pick someone and vote for them. Or would you like me to pick someone for you?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Tue May 29, 2018 2:04 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Less than 24h to go.

@moody7277, LaserGuy, mpolo, Sabrar, Vicarin, wam: why are you not voting? Please pick someone and vote for them. Or would you like me to pick someone for you?


Well, technically I am voting for myself, but I assume you mean a real vote.

Unvote

Vote: Mark
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Tue May 29, 2018 2:15 pm UTC

Ugh, not paying attention with regards to how much time was left in the day.

Out of the 3 people with 2 votes right now, I'd say

Vote: freezeblade

If he suddenly comes on with an amazing amount of analysis then I'll reconsider, but I'm not holding my breath.

I can't say Mark looks fantastic with regards to Role PM stuff but I'd rather have more to go on than that, and I don't think the rest of his stuff has been terrible.

Weirdest thing to me about Madge is I have no idea why I'm her most townie read atm...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Tue May 29, 2018 2:51 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Less than 24h to go.

@moody7277, LaserGuy, mpolo, Sabrar, Vicarin, wam: why are you not voting? Please pick someone and vote for them. Or would you like me to pick someone for you?


Didn't realise how close deadline was. Am planning reads and a vote tonight.

given this has snuck up on us please may we have an extension.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Tue May 29, 2018 3:30 pm UTC

Sorry to lose you, threetwoone!

An extension would be appreciated, Diemo. Especially if you do find a replacement.

plytho wrote:[Madge's] Mark tunnel feels unfounded.

I'm 99% sure that she's playing bessie with this one. It definitely does not feel like a scummy tunnel to me.



Sabrar wrote:I really mean it.
So you're voting me because I said you might be scum? Apparently I leave for a year and become the stuff of legend...

[dj]That is so unfair! If you guys just want to lose twenty dollars and my self respect, go ahead![/dj]

Sabrar wrote:Mark: early focus on the Werewolf question at the expense of everything else.
For a newbie? Screw that.

Sabrar wrote:Vicarin: not obv!Town Vicarin means scum!Vicarin.
I don't know Vicarin, but okay.

Sabrar wrote:wam: tryhard defense against joke-post.
Agreed.

Sabrar wrote:jimbob: FoS on me is way too early, he should be aware that lately I'm liable to gambit.
You think this holds despite his other content?




Vicarin's first real post feels okay. Looking forward to your other reads, Vic.



Sabrar wrote:I feel SDK's 'role-fish' is worse than Madge's push.

Somehow I didn't even consider that. I asked that question for two reasons: 1) Get Madge off his back, or 2) Provide evidence that Mark did, in fact, ask a werewolfy question.

@Mark, please don't answer my question about your PM. Sabrar (and jimbob? NO! plytho, damnit!**) is right that it will do more harm than good. Answer my other questions though, please.

**I was so confused for a minute there! I thought one of my towniest reads (jimbob) was going down the gutter, but it turns out plytho might just be scum instead. Whew!



I think plytho's reads list doesn't jive with what he comes out with later and doesn't jive with a townie mindset. Many of his reads feel fabricated, in particular his reads of Sabrar, jimbob and Madge. I'd also already rolefished, but he didn't catch that in this post (only later).



Madge, you are hilarious. :lol:



Town
• Madge (as Bessie)
• jimbobmacdoodle (as Freezeblade)
• moody7277 (as Vytron)
• mpolo (as Sungara)
• LaserGuy (as Madge)
• Mark_Cangila (as SDK)
• Vicarin (as Zen)
• threetwoone (as hueristically_alone)

• wam (as Sabrar)
• Freezeblade (as Snark)
• plytho (as jimbob)
• Sabrar (as Peaceful Whale)
Scum

ISO'd my four picks for scum. I was mainly picking on Sabrar earlier to apply some pressure to get good answers from him (and see who else might be interested), but now I really do think he's scum based on how he's reacted and what he continues to focus on. I'll try to dig up a previous game where I caught him and he tried to pull the "I'm a townie, so you're wrong" card there too.

plytho's acting funny, but I don't think he should be the lynch today. Likewise, we can do better than a lurker lynch in freezeblade.

Unvote, Vote Sabrar.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Pre-game

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 29, 2018 3:30 pm UTC

Sorry! was away for the long weekend, back now and I'll respond as I read though:

Madge wrote:
freezeblade wrote:Anyone who votes for people off of their confirmation post will get a vote from me, fair warning.

Why is that? Do you not want us to catch scum? I’ve got a great record of catching scum from their confirmation posts, and I was hoping to continue that streak this game.

Because anyone actually caught out from a confirmation post is nothing more than coincidence in my opinion, and anyone who doubles down on it is being ridiculous
wam wrote:@freeze snark was the one player who could always call.me correctly as scum so no pressure!
Are you claiming scum here? :lol:
LaserGuy wrote:jimbob is so boring when he's Town.
And here we have a member of team orange calling another member of team orange town, with weird banter.
SDK wrote:Freezeblade(as Snark):
freezeblade wrote:Anyone who votes for people off of their confirmation post will get a vote from me, fair warning.

Are you currently voting Madge?
No, I'm currently voting for Jimbob, for the same reason. Although I was only half serious when I made the statement, and the vote's been there long enough I think.
Unvote

Some thoughts:
- On possible SK: we definitely need to be on guard, but there's no point in stressing out too much over the possibility until there is some proof that one exists in this setup.
- On Fruit claiming: put me for a vote against it until the fruit vendor claims.
- On Lynching me: Lynching me will do no good for town, and be great for scum
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Tue May 29, 2018 3:49 pm UTC

SDK wrote:I'll try to dig up a previous game where I caught him and he tried to pull the "I'm a townie, so you're wrong" card there too.

It was Diablo Mafia I was thinking of, where I replaced in Night 2 and got Sabrar lynched Day 3. His response to that pressure feels similar, especially a couple pages in where he does start calling himself town to justify hating everything I do (including accusing me of buddying up to an entire wagon of players). Now that I think about it, seems odd that Sabrar should point to Alien Mafia to justify his suspicion of me when he wasn't town in that game either. Maybe I can catch him as reliably as he seems to believe?

In any case, I'm not as sure here as I was in Diablo (had two full Days of content there), but I think he's our best bet for today.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 29, 2018 4:17 pm UTC

Sorry I didn't post last night. I was planning on it, but my wife and I started watching this show called Westworld and it is AMAZING and I can't believe I heard of this before and OH MY GOD Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris are both my favorites and if you spoil anything I will CUT YOU. So we may have been binge watching that until almost 1 in the morning and there was no time for mafia after that.

Madge wrote:Nonsense. LaserGuy has been very unMadge-like in this. I feel like he’s not complained about D1 and loudly complained he should have signed up as a replacement but then loudly opined that he’d still be replacing in D1 and wouldn’t have gotten to choose who he played.


Sorry, I will rectify this immediately.

SDK wrote:@LaserGuy: Why plytho?


Most of my reads D1 are a combination of gutreads, tone, and meta. There isn't really a lot to analyse at this point, which is one of the reasons why I hate D1 and normally try to replace in later in the game if I can. Once we get some juicy night results to analyse things become much easier for me. But if I felt that someone was being overly cautious, not wanting to engage, and maybe a bit lurkier than I normally associate with them, that might be enough to put someone on the naughty list at this point.

Diemo wrote:Oh sorry, threetwoone is being replaced.


Aw, sorry threetwoone. I hope you will play again.

Madge wrote:Why can’t you just say what you think? It’s not a hard question! If I didn’t have a vote down on Mark already I’d be placing it down on you. I love placing votes D1 because I can get so much out of peoples’ posts and I wish I had more than one but I am not the secret double voter.


I did say what I think: I hate orange. Are you reading me as scum because I don't like orange? What more did you expect me to say about it? Would it have been better if I had written a ten page essay with detailed footnotes and color photos of all of the abominations that this color has inflicted on us? Should everyone post their least favorite colors so we can do a comparison survey?

Madge wrote:Woof
Vicarin
Sabrar
Mpolo (if he ever lies I’d be very surprised)
SDK
Moody
Threetwoone
plytho
Wam
Jimbob
Freezeblade
Laserguy
Mark
Grr


Yay! Madge did a Woof to Grr list! Though I'm having trouble keeping her on the Nice list because some of those reads are very alarming.

Vicarin wrote:Weirdest thing to me about Madge is I have no idea why I'm her most townie read atm...


I know, right? Actually, that's the second weirdest thing. The weirdest is that she's SCUMREADING ME BECAUSE I HATE ORANGE.

An extension would be appreciated, Diemo. Especially if you do find a replacement.


I wouldn't normally support an extension of D1 because D1 is terrible, but I'll make an exception for replacement if that's what people want.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 29, 2018 4:21 pm UTC

Oh, I missed plytho. plytho, like I said, I don't normally vote D1 and am not planning on doing so unless it's to save myself or to prevent a NL. If I were voting, it would probably be for Vicarin at this point.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 5:29 pm UTC

Ooh, I have to butt head against SDK? Can I be Beavis instead? :P
That's not fair, he's so much more experienced than i am... I have such a scummy meta, I can't really defend myself. Anything I say he'll just call it wine knowing that I'm not even old enough to drink... :(

SDK wrote:So you're voting me because I said you might be scum?
So you're not paying attention to the votals? Actually, that just might be a town-slip... Oh well, we'll see about that tomorrow.

SDK wrote:
Sabrar wrote:jimbob: FoS on me is way too early, he should be aware that lately I'm liable to gambit.
You think this holds despite his other content?
No, but it was true at that point. Are you getting confused about the timeline like jimbob or do you just want to defame me?

SDK wrote:Vicarin's first real post feels okay.
You think this holds despite his other content?

SDK wrote:Provide evidence that Mark did, in fact, ask a werewolfy question.
What does this even mean? Do you have reason to believe that Mark's werewolf question is related to his pm-question? How in hell could this be the case if he were VT? Why wouldn't you see the fish here?

SDK wrote:It was Diablo Mafia I was thinking of, where I replaced in Night 2 and got Sabrar lynched Day 3. His response to that pressure feels similar,
You're massively misrepresenting things if you're suggesting that the two situations resemble each other. In Diablo I was under attack from multiple angles , here the only 'pressure' I have on me is from you.

SDK wrote:Now that I think about it, seems odd that Sabrar should point to Alien Mafia to justify his suspicion of me when he wasn't town in that game either.
Oh, another strawman! I didn't point to Alien Mafia, I pointed to a Gojoe post where we are always honest regardless of our in-game alignment.

SDK wrote:In any case, I'm not as sure here as I was in Diablo
Backing off already? You usually show no remorse when you lead the lynch on a townie.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 5:45 pm UTC

EBWOP: I hate to break a good tradition.

Vote: wam

Could also go for Vicarin or SDK.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 5:52 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:[Madge's] Mark tunnel feels unfounded.

I'm 99% sure that she's playing bessie with this one. It definitely does not feel like a scummy tunnel to me.
Just because she's playing bessie doesn't mean she can't be scum. It's a nice excuse to hide behind, in the mean time she's still voting mark based on weak reasoning. Why does it feel like a townie tunnel to you?

SDK wrote:Sabrar wrote:
I feel SDK's 'role-fish' is worse than Madge's push.

Somehow I didn't even consider that. I asked that question for two reasons: 1) Get Madge off his back, or 2) Provide evidence that Mark did, in fact, ask a werewolfy question.
Hmmm. The problem here is that Mark explicitly stated that it was a question about his role-pm before you asked him this question. If that wasn't the case, sure you're not explicitly role-fishing, here it is the case, though.

SDK wrote:I think plytho's reads list doesn't jive with what he comes out with later and doesn't jive with a townie mindset. Many of his reads feel fabricated, in particular his reads of Sabrar, jimbob and Madge. I'd also already rolefished, but he didn't catch that in this post (only later).
Why don't my reads jive with a townie mindset? I feel it does match what I point out later (marks role-pm question). I did catch you rolefishing. I just didn't explicitly point it out there as I was avoiding talking about the fact that Mark had stated he'd asked about his role-pm. If you actually ISO'd me you might have noticed that. :wink:

LaserGuy wrote:Oh, I missed plytho.
Uh, I missed you too? :mrgreen:
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Tue May 29, 2018 6:15 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:EBWOP: I hate to break a good tradition.

Vote: wam

Could also go for Vicarin or SDK.


Voting for yourself sabrar ?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 6:34 pm UTC

I don't understand... How can you confuse me with Sabar? He is totally not me...

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 6:36 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:But if I felt that someone was being overly cautious, not wanting to engage, and maybe a bit lurkier than I normally associate with them, that might be enough to put someone on the naughty list at this point.
Is this me you're talking about? You, of all people, should know I'm cautious. I'm very willing to engage. And I don't think I'm lurkier than usual.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 29, 2018 6:38 pm UTC

I've taken note of the mentions to the groupings I posted earlier, and what seems to be referenced most is the color teams. Could this be that being grouped together has made some people nervous, or that it's on their minds? I looked for interactions between the teams, Orange and Green especially. Other teams didn't seem to interact the same way, but...team orange calling other team orange townie:

Moody calling jimbob townie for a weak reason (forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124758&start=40#p4356491)
Jimbob calling laserguy neutral, dispite calling others scummy for same behavior (viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124758&start=80#p4357087)
jimbob calling moody townie for agreeing with their reads (although also saying they are a stretch?)
(of note: jimbob only called one other member townie, Sabrar)
Laserguy calling Jimbob Town (already mentioned, "boring when he's town" comment)

Overall, I'm seeing Jimbob scummiest, although that feels like seeing myself as scummy.

non-color or food team related, but Madge v. Mark is super interesting, but I can't decide if it's townie fighting D2, or if one player is actually scum. Either way, they can't both be scum though.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Tue May 29, 2018 7:27 pm UTC

OK freezeblade at least tried to get some content out of the groups thing. Which makes him feel a bit less active-lurky, though not totally off the hook. I'm not seeing a lot of extreme scummy behavior.

I want to reread Mark, because his reactions seem a little off. It may be just frustrated newbie stuck in a confusing game because of the roleplaying though.

I totally missed that deadline is tomorrow. I should have some time tomorrow morning to do some punctual re-reading. I am open to suggestions for which players would be most profitable to put under the microscope. That's going to be rather tight on the deadline.

How great is the danger of a modkill? Or is replacement still likely?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Tue May 29, 2018 7:37 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:No, but it was true at that point. Are you getting confused about the timeline like jimbob or do you just want to defame me?

I'm trying to get you to talk about your current reads.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:Vicarin's first real post feels okay.
You think this holds despite his other content?

His other content is weak. We recently got a lurker vote on freezeblade (that may be opportunistic) alongside an apparent decision to come down late on Mark for PM baloney (which is terrible), so he's not looking great. Still waiting on his reads of "Sabrar, jimbob, mpolo and moody".

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:Provide evidence that Mark did, in fact, ask a werewolfy question.
What does this even mean? Do you have reason to believe that Mark's werewolf question is related to his pm-question? How in hell could this be the case if he were VT? Why wouldn't you see the fish here?

Depending on what Mark came back with I thought it could shed some light on whether or not Madge is right to suspect Mark based on the PM stuff. I thought we'd get a simple answer back like "Clarification on my posting restriction" or "A question about Matrix14" rather than something more damning like "I don't know what you want me to say..." or some other creative way that new players talk themselves into traps. That would have been fine too, of course. I'm only talking about the PM question, not the werewolf question. I also have no idea if Mark is a VT or not - I don't understand why you're saying that. As for why I didn't see the fish, I really have no idea. The thought that he could be asking about a power role didn't even occur to me, which is ridiculous since it's a very likely reason to be PMing the mod. I have no excuse there other than my motivation unrelated to PR's.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:It was Diablo Mafia I was thinking of, where I replaced in Night 2 and got Sabrar lynched Day 3. His response to that pressure feels similar,
You're massively misrepresenting things if you're suggesting that the two situations resemble each other. In Diablo I was under attack from multiple angles , here the only 'pressure' I have on me is from you.

Your reaction feels similar to me. It's on you if that's an overreaction to what was initially just a prod from me.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:Now that I think about it, seems odd that Sabrar should point to Alien Mafia to justify his suspicion of me when he wasn't town in that game either.
Oh, another strawman! I didn't point to Alien Mafia, I pointed to a Gojoe post where we are always honest regardless of our in-game alignment.

A GoJoe post where you complain that I'm not reading you as town when you in fact were not town, right? Why is it being a GoJoe post relevant?

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:In any case, I'm not as sure here as I was in Diablo
Backing off already? You usually show no remorse when you lead the lynch on a townie.

Wasn't I scum in that game? Yeah, perfect mafia victory! Nice job, me (and LaserGuy and jimbob). I'm confused though. Are you trying to prove that I'm town since I'm showing remorse here?



plytho wrote:Just because she's playing bessie doesn't mean she can't be scum. It's a nice excuse to hide behind, in the mean time she's still voting mark based on weak reasoning. Why does it feel like a townie tunnel to you?
bessie is well known for tunneling (or at least, she was). I suspect Madge is doing exactly that to uphold bessie's meta. Why townie? Because she's not using it to sling mud, she's not holding it up to others, and she's focusing on plenty of other things.

plytho wrote:Hmmm. The problem here is that Mark explicitly stated that it was a question about his role-pm before you asked him this question. If that wasn't the case, sure you're not explicitly role-fishing, here it is the case, though.
I did my read through post in chronological order. Sometimes that means I ask questions that get deleted in the final version. I came upon that answer after writing the question, then decided not to delete the question since I thought it still added value to ask for the specifics.



mpolo wrote:I totally missed that deadline is tomorrow. I should have some time tomorrow morning to do some punctual re-reading. I am open to suggestions for which players would be most profitable to put under the microscope. That's going to be rather tight on the deadline.

plytho, Sabrar and Vicarin deserve the most focus, in my opinion.
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