Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Night 3 - Time to go, CEO

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somitomi
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby somitomi » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:55 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I'm really struggling to understand how you could have possibly interpreted this in the manner that you claim to have. There is no way you would have interpreted this to mean that night actions were being submitted after the hammer but before the start of the day.

I'm not an experienced player, so I did not realise how big the difference between "night ends when all actions are sent" and "nightless" is.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby bessie » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:03 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:About the LYLO, I assumed that indie was anti town, and was scum... so ignore my stupidity please.
No, you don’t get to decide what parts of your content we analyze or ignore.

What anti town indies did you think were in the game when you made the LYLO comment here? After you made the comment, you were fishing for information on anti-town indie roles.

moody7277 wrote:My thoughts exactly. I figure that when it comes to claims, he'll say he's an unlynchable vig who upon being NKed makes town win automatically while secretly being the midnight slasher what slashes at midnight (not that I expect there to be a SK).

Peaceful Whale wrote:He is aperently a know it all again, for he just perfectly practically word for word recited my role name!!!

Peaceful Whale wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:unvote

Vote moody


He is aperently a know it all again, for he just perfectly, word for word, recited my role name!!!

(Joking again FYI)


Fixed

Hari Seldon wrote:Oh, intriguing. The first time I read this, I did not realize that this fix was a fix in punctuation. This justifies my impression that Peaceful Whale is being deliberate with his punctuation. [-0.5]

Interesting. Hari Seldon, you are incorrect. This was not a just a punctuation fix.

Vote: Peaceful Whale

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:40 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Interesting. Hari Seldon, you are incorrect. This was not a just a punctuation fix.


Do you think this was a scumtell? I'm not sure I understand what you think the significance of the edit is.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:49 pm UTC

Laser guy that is a good bit of analysis with the possible somi jimbob link. I tend to agree with most of it.

Interesting element for me is Jimbob switching from pushing lyching me to PW at the same time. Could be a scummate trying to shift the lynch.

Checking the rules we are on a first come first served basis for ties. So at the moment thats a somi lynch.

@Hari

You do all this analysis with points etc but you don't turn it into votes why not?

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:Interesting. Hari Seldon, you are incorrect. This was not a just a punctuation fix.


Do you think this was a scumtell? I'm not sure I understand what you think the significance of the edit is.


I agree with this question it looks like bessie is suggesting a link but doesn't state it.

Also yes we need reads lists from

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Moody, what parts of the two posts that you quoted from Somitomi led you to suspect that he had more info about how Night works than he should have? Why do you feel more strongly about Somitomi being a Mafia than you do about Wam?


1.
somitomi wrote:Although apparently my initial post was right about night ending as soon as all actions are submitted,

2.
somitomi wrote:I actually didn't double-check,

3.
somitomi wrote:I didn't remember the length of the night phase was fixed, therefore I (erroreously) assumed night phase ends as soon as all actions are submitted. Possibly because that was the case in another game I played quite recently, where night was practically nonexistent as a result.


He got the bit about night length right in point 1, even though admitting to not giving the OP a close look in point 2, and seemingly backtracking a bit in point 3. Confusion on that point shouldn't have been an issue since his last game was nightless. Therefore my conclusion of extra info.

On wam, I don't recall seeing anything so egregious, and as I stated previously interactions between them lead me to believe they aren't a scum team together.

vote: somitomi
@moody, I'm really not following your logic here (not helped by the links apparently not working). Assuming the points you link to correspond to the quotes that follow, it seems to me like you're accusing somitomi of backtracking on something he hadn't said yet - the quotes appear in the reverse order to somitomi's actual posts. What is he supposedly backtracking on? I'm really not seeing where somitomi is being inconsistent or unbelievable here.

Aside from this point, moody, do you have any other reasons for finding somitomi scummy?

@Bessie, could you summarise your case against Peaceful Whale, please, as I'm struggling to distinguish between the things you find scummy about him, and what are just observations about his play.

(Ninja'ed - I see LaserGuy and wam both raised one of the things I'm confused by).
Peaceful Whale wrote:I haven’t had the time to hop on and post and was wondering what the scum slip was everyone was talking about. So this is it apparently. Honestly it does look like a scum slip, and there’s not much I can do about it. I myself wouldn’t have seen it, and obviously I didn’t catch it myself. My only defense is that if I were scum, I’d be more likely to catch myself and be more careful.
This isn't an answer to my question about what you meant when you said "other scum games". You must have meant something by it. The fact that you said you didn't "catch" it doesn't look good either. Why would town need to catch a phrase like that?

Oh, just remembered that I promised LaserGuy a response and haven't got that far yet. Hopefully in a couple of hours I'll have some more time.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby moody7277 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:21 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Aside from this point, moody, do you have any other reasons for finding somitomi scummy?


Nobody at this point has done anything very scummy, although Maven being lurky around his excuse is moving up a bit (he may have just moved past PW a little). This was just the weirdest example I could find in my read through at the time.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Maven89 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:36 pm UTC

Really sorry guys, I've had a lot to deal with, yesterday was my first free day in a while and I ended up spending the time with friends. I'm not leaving the computer until I get my post in so expect to hear from me soon. Have to do a full reread

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:38 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Aside from this point, moody, do you have any other reasons for finding somitomi scummy?


Nobody at this point has done anything very scummy, although Maven being lurky around his excuse is moving up a bit (he may have just moved past PW a little). This was just the weirdest example I could find in my read through at the time.
What about my other comments in that post you quoted?

LaserGuy wrote:So you had an action, that was processed during the day, that would have linked you to another player who (checks the possible roles) would also have had an action that would be processed during the day :? This is very difficult for me to accept.
To be clear, are you saying that you don't believe somitomi had the role he claimed in that game, or that you simply find it a weird ability to have?

LaserGuy wrote:Also, here's the how long the night was in the game:
Spoiler:
Peaceful Whale wrote:Vote weeks

Peaceful Whale gives Hammer vote.
MasterOfAll wrote:And that's a lynch. Weeks was voted for by somitomi, Angua, wam, and Peaceful Whale.

Weeks is now dead. Weeks was the Thief, town.

Through an interesting series of events, nobody died during the night.

It is now Day 2. There are 6 of you alive. This means there are still 4 votes needed to lynch.

This is the next post, 13 minutes later. Mod simultaneously ends the day, processes the night phase, and starts new day.


I'm really struggling to understand how you could have possibly interpreted this in the manner that you claim to have. There is no way you would have interpreted this to mean that night actions were being submitted after the hammer but before the start of the day.

The 13 minute night length is pretty damning evidence against somitomi, compared to what he has said, and I agree with what LaserGuy is saying here. I'll take another read through of his posts when I get a chance (that might be in the morning).

LaserGuy wrote:Defends somitomi and attacks me for scumhunting.
I'll freely admit that I've been defending somitomi, because I felt like he was being misjudged. As for attacking you, as I thought was clear in the post you quoted, I was attacking you because you were focusing too much on one person to the detriment of looking at others. Was I unreasonable to do so?

LaserGuy wrote:Very interesting interactions between jimbob and somitomi. Why are you defending somitomi so much, jimbob?
As in past games, when I see someone being unfairly (in my eyes) attacked, I will defend them. Like I said earlier, I believed that somitomi was being entirely truthful, and were it not for the 13 minute night comment, I'd still probably think that. Big arguments are so commonly between town members, or where town members are on the victim-side that I like to try to avoid everybody focusing on a single irrelevant "slip" when the slip is easily explained as a simple mistake instead.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Sabrar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:01 pm UTC

somitomi accidentally read a spoiler. He is replaced by ConMan from this point onwards.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby ConMan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:17 am UTC

Hey all, I will catch up on the thread soon. I've read my role so I know who I'm supposed to be.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:37 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:To be clear, are you saying that you don't believe somitomi had the role he claimed in that game, or that you simply find it a weird ability to have?


I believe he had the role. I am skeptical that he would have had this role, had private access to another player who he could have consulted on regarding night actions, and been completely unaware of the night mechanics. This isn't as clearcut as, say, had he been a cop, but it's more problematic than had he been bulletproof.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'll freely admit that I've been defending somitomi, because I felt like he was being misjudged. As for attacking you, as I thought was clear in the post you quoted, I was attacking you because you were focusing too much on one person to the detriment of looking at others. Was I unreasonable to do so?


Your read on me was essentially "LaserGuy is tunneling, therefore scummy". You were more interested in defending somitomi than you were in evaluating my content. I had plenty of posts that you could have used to try to read my motivations and alignment


In other news, I don't like this post by wam at all. Strikes me as hardcore pandering as soon as I moved my vote off of him.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:04 am UTC

wam wrote:@hair

Just the tone and an impression which is hard to read over text I admit.

What about it had that tone? If you can not hear his voice, then you only have his words to base your impression. I do not see anything in his post that suggested frustration. Because you have not been able to identify anything either, I am led to believe that your initial claim was fabricated.

In response to your question, I do not usually vote until it is nearer the deadline.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:55 am UTC

Thank you ConMan for replacing.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Bessie, could you summarise your case against Peaceful Whale, please, as I'm struggling to distinguish between the things you find scummy about him, and what are just observations about his play.
Ok. I think he is some flavor of scum. In his first post I think it was odd he joke voted for me for being town, not for being scum. I think he slipped and got his joke vote reversed. Possibly because he knows I’m not on his team. I also get the same feeling from this post where he again refers to my townie meta, and says he voted for me because “some day, you’ll be scum and will finally be lynched.”

In Peaceful Whale's second post he tries to make another joke, this time about moody guessing his role. I think he typed it out as “practically”, realized that it didn’t sound joking enough, changed it to “perfectly”, and accidentally posted without deleting practically. He corrected his mistake one minute later.

The original quote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:He is aperently a know it all again, for he just perfectly practically word for word recited my role name!!!

The fixed quote:
Peaceful Whale wrote: He is aperently a know it all again, for he just perfectly, word for word, recited my role name!!!
If this was a joke, why even bother to fix it? Hmm, maybe try reading it the other way?

This is the post where he says we could be in LYLO on D2.
Peaceful Whale wrote:I think it’s pretty common for independents to be slightly anti-townie. However if we do have an independent, and 2 mafia, I very much doubt that they’d be high up on the priority lynch list. Given as an existence of indie would mean we could be at LYLO D2...

An Indie could actually be a help, especially if they’re a one shot, with a survive till the end win-con.

Are there really any specifically anti-town indies? Besides serial killer?
He pushes the idea that indies are “slightly” anti-town (note that there was quite a bit of discussion on this topic in Crossover), that indies aren’t a lynch priority, and that a one shot indie could be helpful to town. Then he fishes for general game information on indies.

@Peaceful Whale, what type of one shot indie were you thinking of when you made that post?

jimbob questioned Peaceful Whale on the LYLO comment. Peaceful Whale addressed but did not answer the question here.

Peaceful Whale wrote:About the LYLO, I assumed that indie was anti town, and was scum... so ignore my stupidity please.
He tried to brush it off, but as I pointed out, anything posted in the thread is fair game, you don’t get to erase content.

@ Peaceful Whale, what anti-town indie were you thinking of that could put us in LYLO on D2?

Peaceful Whale wrote: Nope, I feel like not enough people have actually posted enough to fully judge everyone else. I like to compare people... it’s still early D1, and I’m willing to wait until the party gets going before I point at people and cry wolf. Though in this case it’d be wolf killer(?). (Is it werewolf/vampire hunter or something else. scum, feel free to elaborate)
Peaceful Whale had to be reminded three times to answer Hari Seldon’s request, and when he did he made an excuse for not giving any reads, or even opinions. Hmm, note that he unclear on the flavor, and which are the town and mafia factions. [+1 indie point]

Peaceful Whale wrote: I haven’t had the time to hop on and post and was wondering what the scum slip was everyone was talking about. So this is it apparently. Honestly it does look like a scum slip, and there’s not much I can do about it. I myself wouldn’t have seen it, and obviously I didn’t catch it myself. My only defense is that if I were scum, I’d be more likely to catch myself and be more careful.
Like how you caught the practically/perfectly slip and tried to fix it?

I think Peaceful Whale is an anti-town independent, and his role (and safeclaim) is somewhat similar to the role described by moody. If I had to make a wild ass guess, I would say that his win con is tied to the death of another player, and he gets something to help him achieve that win con if he fulfills some condition, like “you get a kill if you survive to D3”.

bessie wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Oh, intriguing. The first time I read this, I did not realize that this fix was a fix in punctuation. This justifies my impression that Peaceful Whale is being deliberate with his punctuation. [-0.5]

Interesting. Hari Seldon, you are incorrect. This was not a just a punctuation fix.

LaserGuy wrote:Do you think this was a scumtell? I'm not sure I understand what you think the significance of the edit is.

wam wrote:I agree with this question it looks like bessie is suggesting a link but doesn't state it.

Interesting that LaserGuy and wam both thought I was suggesting a link between Peaceful Whale and Hari Seldon. I’m not. But I am curious as to why Hari Seldon only pointed out the punctuation and not the deleted word.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:15 am UTC

bessie wrote:Interesting that LaserGuy and wam both thought I was suggesting a link between Peaceful Whale and Hari Seldon. I’m not. But I am curious as to why Hari Seldon only pointed out the punctuation and not the deleted word.


No, I didn't see it as a link to Hari. I thought that you were voting for PW on the basis of that edit, and didn't follow the logic.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:47 am UTC

@ laser
Well then it's a rubbish piece of analysis and doesn't add anything to the game!

Serious note I tend to read through and state what I think. I read it as a good piece of analysis so I said that.

@hari

Not sure what else I can say that was the impression I got. So I'm going to move on.

Why do you not vote till deadline. That is scummy in my mind. 1. It allows you to effect votes near the end without contradicting yourself. It also allows you to list your scummy players in a group without picking one out. Which is a traditional scum way of showing sucipouns at their teammate without voting them.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:48 am UTC

Ebwop

Meant to add in welcome conman look forward to seeing your content.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Maven89 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:28 am UTC

Ok, I lied before and left my computer. But I'm back. Reading through the game, this post is in chronological order from where I last left off. I really wish I had been around more, because I do not like the state this game is in.

First off, I have major problems with Hari's first large post. tl;dr, almost none of it makes sense.

Hari Seldon wrote:A) Providing a name for our dead friend gives me the impression that JimBob is being carefree and that he is genuinely getting into character. [2]


How does this give town points?

Hari Seldon wrote: There is a low statistical rate that a Mafia will ask their partner a pseudoserious question during RVS.


On my site is normal for scum to throw joke votes at each other early on to attempt distancing without needing to actually contribute anything. If you have statistics to back this up, please give them, becuase I'm very curious where your statistical basis is coming from. it looks like you just made this up.

Hari Seldon wrote:This post didn't stem from the natural flow of conversation. Due to that, I have the impression that this is forced content. [-2]


People are talking about setup speculation and he's responding by talking about setup speculation. Why do you believe that's not natural?

Hari Seldon wrote:B) I have the instinct that these aren't Mafia words. [0.5]


Why are these not mafia words? What part of those words lead you to believe it's telling of any alignment and not null?

Hari Seldon wrote:I have the impression that Peaceful Whale's use of ellipses was indicative of uncertainty and a mind that was continually processing. His reduced use in this game leads me to suspect that he is not internally exploring information in the same way and/or that he is not as uncertain as he was in Crossover


Did you think it might be because he's more confident after having played more mafia games?

Hari Seldon wrote:This is a bizarre question to ask at the start of the game. Maven did not vote or respond to any of the postings that had been made. This question is not relevant to the present time, leading me to suspect that Maven had asked this for the purpose of putting words on the page.


That's not a bizarre question at all, it's incredibly important to know when flips occur. The beginning of the game is the perfect time to ask that. Please point out what previous postings you found relevant enough that they warranted a response? Because it was just RVS and jokes, unless you took Jimbob seriously, which I find there being no reason to do.

Hari Seldon wrote:My instinct is also giving me a negative impression of this post. I do not get the impression that it stems from the natural flow of conversation or evaluation.
[/quote]

Explain why asking someone how they came up with their detailed setup speculation is irrelevant and shows a lack of evaluation

The attempt to add mathematical points to each of his comments is utterly arbitrary and comes off forced



I'm finding all the discussion about who knows if there's day-chat or night-chat to be too wifomy to get real information out of by itself. I do not believe JImbob was serious with his Alfred statement, or that it's telling in any way.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Maven - if you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be? What do you think of wam's response about wanting to lynch me because of my opening post?


I'm still re-reading while writing this post, so I'll answer the first part at the bottom of this post. But I find your opening post null. I think attempting to push it as scum is misguided at best. I cannot comprehend how someone would find it towny.

Hari Seldon wrote:2. JimBob added details to his RP that were not in the opening post. I believe that required a degree of creativity, albeit small degree. I believe that creativity requires a degree of immersion. Therefore, I believe that JimBob was immersed with his character. Being immersed with his charter would have required JimBob to have read the character theme in his role PM. Therefore, I believe that JimBob likely has a character that is a Town.


This makes no sense

Hari Seldon wrote:The type of question is more important than the question being asked. Unwarranted aggression, questions that have an easy answer, questions that are reactive (rather than proactive), and questions that did not pass the minds of other payers are signs of a Mafia addressing their partner.


How is asking a question no one else thought of yet scummy?

bessie wrote:At the present whether or not you made a mistake in the first place (and the rule itself) is no longer as interesting as your reaction. You didn’t know the rule, you possibly never read it, and when someone contradicted you, still didn’t bother to read it and form your own opinion or interpretation. You automatically went into damage control mode, and you’ve been there since the first page. You’re acting like someone that got caught doing something wrong, not like someone that made an honest mistake.


This is the first good point that's been brought up from the chat dialogue. 3.4543 Town points to Bessie for focusing on the important part.

Hari Seldon wrote:The difference with Shakespeare is that all the characters were Shakespearean. There is a distinct difference in the character's personalities in this game and between the two sides. I do not expect that Jim would have been inclined to make the same post if he received the role of a rebellious teenager. He gave me more so the impression of a pompous upper class gentleman.


Image

Why couldn't it just be that he made a name up on the spot as a joke? Why does it have to be roleplay? if It is roleplay, than why would scum roleplay as their scummy character?

LaserGuy wrote:bessie:

Leaning Town. Early aggression looks good to me. She's obviously engaged in the game and is interacting well with all players. Curious to see how her reads turn out since she seems to already have an FoS on half the players.


I agree with this, Bessie is looking good so far. Also leaning town on her.

moody7277 wrote:
If there were to be an independent in the game, and the probability of that is still somewhere south of 50%, I think it's most likely LaserGuy because of his firm insitence here and here on the 7-2 over 6-2-1, in that second post he even metagames the co-mod.


Why do you think there's a 50% chance of an independent? Where is that coming from?

Finished reading at this point. General thoughts.

I'm rather shocked that no one pushed Hari harder on his posts, other than the Jimbob part, and I'm surprised people are agreeing with him on his roleplaying motive. When reading his posts, I went from immediate unease, to a slow steady bafflement, to believing that he might actually be legitimate. If it was all a big scum gambit to arbitrarily assign scum points, he didn't do anything with it. Uneasy with him

Peaceful Whale has given almost no content. All of his posts have been RVS, one post claiming it's too early for him to give reads, and than multiple posts defending himself. When it comes to his scum slip, I find his response more telling than the slip itself, which was that he basically admitted it and gave up. Even without that, peaceful whale would be a strong day 1 candidate.

Sommi (or his replacement) is the other candidate, also based on their response to their push as Bessie mentioned, but I find that less telling than Peaceful Whale. I'd rather let a replacement come in than lynch today.

Laserguy and Bessie are my two top town reads.

Jimbob is null. Writing this post, I can barely remember what Jimbob has done other than the Alfred thing. Not meant as an insult, but nothing has stuck out to me as needing to be responded to or scummy. Not a Day 1 lynch for me.

Hari is also null. While I dislike a lot of his opening post, and hate his point system, if it's scum motivated, he hasn't shown it yet. It might just be we have a very different playstyle (I've never seen someone playing like that) and I'm just not used to it. My biggest annoyance with my inactivity is that I didn't have time to delve into this, when I really want to. If I'm alive Day 2 I'll push into it more. But right now he's not a priority.

Wam is null as well.

Moody is bizarre. He gave a real read list, which I didn't have a problem with, but despite that all of his major questions have been focused on independent hunting instead of scum hunting. His reasons for believing Laserguy might be independent were awful.

If I had to kill one person right now, it'd be Peaceful Whale. If I had to kill two, it'd be Peaceful Whale, than I'd flip a coin for either Moody or Sommi/replacement.

I promise to be more active in the future.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:19 am UTC

I've not had the chance to re-read somitomi yet, unfortunately, and I don't know when I'll next get a chance.

I like Maven's recent post. It shows to me that he's seriously trying to read and think about most things, and not just skimming and brushing aside content.

On Hari's arbitrary number assignments, I already raised my concerns with them, but I had a small epiphany since that it's not significantly different to people labelling things as slightly/very/moderately etc townie/scummy, so I'm less bothered by the use of numbers. I still think challenging the values assigned is worthwhile though, when they look off.

Thank you bessie for that summary. It makes good sense to me overall. In general, I'm feeling happier about bessie than in my original reads list.

Welcome to the game ConMan. Please try to get some reads up when you can.

Thank you LaserGuy for your comments about somitomi's role name. I certainly follow them. I still disagree that my main focus was defending somitomi when reading you, but I don't see a way to persuade you on that.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby moody7277 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:58 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:What about my other comments in that post you quoted?


Well, I'm not sure I can take apart my reasoning on somi/ConMan any further than I already have, I'm already deep in the weeds on this issue. At this point, I'm calling it an "agree to disagree" thing and let the bodies fall where they may. My reads on everyone else need refreshing desperately.

Maven89 wrote:Why do you think there's a 50% chance of an independent? Where is that coming from?


Intuitional feel translated into a semi-arbitrary number. I have not done research to make an actual quantitative percentage here.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Peaceful Whale » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:46 pm UTC

I’m trying to get through my reads, but I don’t have a lot of time till deadline.

I finished LaserGuy... I’ll probably go back and change stuff as I go on.

LaserGuy
Spoiler:
Starts the game with setup speculation. Wonders why Bessie thinks it’s 6-2-1

He later defends the 7-2 setup because it’s what Sabrar would do.
@laserguy. Madge (I think) wrote most of the roles, storyline, and maybe flavor. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some very unique roles.

He finds some errors in people way of thoughts. I believe he is suspicious of wam, somi, and slightly Hari.

Pokes somi a little bit harder, somi is looking more like scum. However it turns out laser was actually wrong about somi being wrong. Kind of.

Asks why moody finds Wam scummy.

Answers jimbobmacdoodle’s questions.

Posts reads lists. :D
I like his reads list, nothing overtly of about it. I’ll have to wait till after the flips to fully judge it.

Pushes harder on jimbobmacdoodle. Points out how much he’s defending Somitori.

Answers jimbobmacdoodle’s questions.

Above I was going through all his posts and writing down my generally impressions.

I believe he is not scum, on the townier side of things. If jimbobmacdoodle is scum, it will look very good for LaserGuy. However if he is town, I can see the interactions town vs town. Though jimbobmacdoodle is on the scummier side of things because of LaserGuy’s posts.

Add LaserGuy to the list of people who I will not vote for today.

@bessie, and indie with a one shot who believes they have found scum, and kill a townie can put us at LYLO.

I believe I may have missed some questions, if I have, please point of out for me. I sadly can’t search for “@PW”, as I’m on a phone and the letters are too common for the search query.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:37 pm UTC

Maven wrote:if It is roleplay, than why would scum roleplay as their scummy character?

Bessie, is this a slip?

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:40 pm UTC

(No one answer except for Bessie, please.)

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:42 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:I’m trying to get through my reads, but I don’t have a lot of time till deadline.
Ok, if you only had time to read one player, why did you select a town read? Why not select someone that is giving you scum pings?

Peaceful Whale wrote: I believe he is not scum, on the townier side of things. If jimbobmacdoodle is scum, it will look very good for LaserGuy. However if he is town, I can see the interactions town vs town. Though jimbobmacdoodle is on the scummier side of things because of LaserGuy’s posts.
So, you’re saying LaserGuy is town if jimbob is town or scum. And jimbob seems scummy based on his interactions with LaserGuy? What is your opinion of jimbob overall?

Peaceful Whale wrote: Add LaserGuy to the list of people who I will not vote for today.
Can we see your full list? Do you have any other reads?

Peaceful Whale wrote: @bessie, and indie with a one shot who believes they have found scum, and kill a townie can put us at LYLO.
What type if one shot indie are you thinking of that can put us at LYLO on D2? And why will you not say ”serial killer”?

Hari Seldon wrote:
Maven wrote:if It is roleplay, than why would scum roleplay as their scummy character?

Bessie, is this a slip?
A slip by Maven? Hmm, he caught what I missed, that the role playing was in character for the town faction, not the scum faction. Perhaps he read the flavor on the first day. If not, I’m sure he has read it by now because that point has already been noted/discussed in thread. And if he read my Peaceful Whale case, I pointed out that PW was unsure of the town/mafia factions, so that may have prompted him to read the flavor. So no, I’m not seeing it as a slip by Maven. Now I am pondering if perhaps you meant something else by this question. (Is anyone role playing as scum? What would be the purpose? What am I missing about Maven? What am I missing from this question? Am I dense – no don’t answer that!) I will think about it today.

Prepost edit: Scummy character...as in not their safe claim?

I am expecting a busy day at work so I probably won’t be back until after 6pm PST, but then I should be available until deadline.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:57 pm UTC

Is that a slip by Bessie as do scum have safe claims madge specifically said species etc don't line up with alignments.

I read through all the rules and there was no mention of safe claims.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

Bessie, thank you for your answer. On unrelated notes, if you believe that Peaceful Whale is independent, would that not invalidate your point about his RVS post? Do you believe that lynching an Independent is as important as lynching a Mafia? What sort of information could you obtain from FoSing someone without a reason that you would not obtain if you had provided your reason? Was that actually your motivation behind FoSing Somitomi without a reason?


wam wrote:@hari

Not sure what else I can say that was the impression I got. So I'm going to move on.

Why do you not vote till deadline. That is scummy in my mind. 1. It allows you to effect votes near the end without contradicting yourself. It also allows you to list your scummy players in a group without picking one out. Which is a traditional scum way of showing suspicions at their teammate without voting them.
If there is nothing that gave you that impression, then the claim that it was your impression was likely fabricated. I have the impression that you are a porcupine and not actually a human. I do not have a reason, that is just my impression.

I disagree that saving your vote is scummy. I believe that you get more information out of me this way. Each time you switch your vote, the significance of it becomes diluted. To take your voting behavior as an example: I am not certain how seriously I should take your votes, because you have shown to change them at the drop of a hat. Both times that you voted JimBob, you unvoted him in your next post without any response from him to have provoked you to do so. This makes it difficult to assign any significance to who you vote. It also makes it difficult to follow a trail, because the voting pattern is sporadic. Because I do not vote until I am certain that I will not likely switch, I believe that my vote is more meaningful and my voting pattern will create a stronger trail.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I like Maven's recent post. It shows to me that he's seriously trying to read and think about most things, and not just skimming and brushing aside content.
I disagree. Maven's post appears to have more content than it actually does. Roughly 50% of its length is nitpicking my post. My main concern with his post is that he did not dig into Wam. There is a lot of (scummy) content by Wam. Maven brushing past him does not indicate to me that he is seriously trying to read and think about things.

Vote: Peaceful Whale

I am fairly confident that Peaceful Whale is Scum. I believe that the remaining Scum is between Maven and Wam.

Maven's lurking makes it difficult to lock onto a read. Much of his content is inconsequential and does not appear natural to me. Most of his big post was nitpicking the only player that is Scum reading him. I believe that everyone but perhaps Peaceful Whale has had something to say about Wam. It is disconcerting to me that Maven does not have any impression of him.

Wam has played opportunistically. His goal appears to be more in line with lynching someone rather than lynching Scum. The reasons for his suspicions have all been very weak, or rather not scummy at all. He was not able to explain his reading of Somitomi, so it is probable that he made it up. If there is an Independent, I believe that Wam's behavior is in line with that role. Because the reasons for his suspicions are weak, he will not gather the support he needs to lynch someone; therefore, he is not a threat to Mafia. I also suspect that he intentionally picked out two players he believed were Town to claim as his suspects, therefore further decreasing his threat to Mafia. Moody, this may explain why Wam's read list was the opposite of mine.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:@bessie, and indie with a one shot who believes they have found scum, and kill a townie can put us at LYLO.


This is suspiciously specific.

I think I would prefer wam over you at this point, but I think that the concerns bessie has raised about you are legitimate, and I am convinced that you are not town. I am content to vote for you and leave somitomi until tomorrow to give ConMan the opportunity to defend himself.

Vote Peaceful Whale

You are one vote away from hammer. Please claim.

Peaceful Whale is at L-1

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm UTC

Right given we are getting close to the end of the day here are my unofficial votals:

Somitomi/conman - (2) - laserguy, moody
Moody - (1) - wam
Peaceful Whale - (3) - jimbob, bessie, hari seldon

With 9 players alive, it is 5 to hammer.

So thats L-2

Right response to Hari time

1) We are doing this by text, no facial expressions etc. So tell me how I'm meant to provide proof of frustration!! As I said at the time that was the tone I took from it.

2) I think having votes and the reasons for switching them are a key piece of information we need in the game. However, I think we are getting offtopic and this is a playstyle discussion we can have after the game.

Going back to the game, what makes you think I made up the impression I got of Somi. Thats a strong point that you haven't backed up at all!

Hari Seldon wrote:
I disagree that saving your vote is scummy. I believe that you get more information out of me this way. Each time you switch your vote, the significance of it becomes diluted. To take your voting behavior as an example: I am not certain how seriously I should take your votes, because you have shown to change them at the drop of a hat. Both times that you voted JimBob, you unvoted him in your next post without any response from him to have provoked you to do so. This makes it difficult to assign any significance to who you vote. It also makes it difficult to follow a trail, because the voting pattern is sporadic. Because I do not vote until I am certain that I will not likely switch, I believe that my vote is more meaningful and my voting pattern will create a stronger trail.



Yeah first vote was RVS. Second I unvoted and explained why. The whole basis for the vote was that I couldn't see anyone making up the name of the first kill. Multiple people said that they could see that happening so it undermined the whole basis of the vote without jimbob needing to respond

Hari Seldon wrote:Wam has played opportunistically. His goal appears to be more in line with lynching someone rather than lynching Scum. The reasons for his suspicions have all been very weak, or rather not scummy at all. He was not able to explain his reading of Somitomi, so it is probable that he made it up. If there is an Independent, I believe that Wam's behavior is in line with that role. Because the reasons for his suspicions are weak, he will not gather the support he needs to lynch someone; therefore, he is not a threat to Mafia. I also suspect that he intentionally picked out two players he believed were Town to claim as his suspects, therefore further decreasing his threat to Mafia. Moody, this may explain why Wam's read list was the opposite of mine.


Reading the above, key thing that stood out is you saying i chose two suspects who were town. So is that you calling moody town? That is opposed to the general consensus.

Reading through, Maven's content has helped his case a lot. I am not opposed to a PW lynch, I won't vote as that will leave them at L-1.

Hari, your post had a definte, OMGUS element aimed at maven.

So after all that, in no particular order within the groups.

Town

LaserGuy
jimbobmacdoodle
bessie (response to my earlier post dependent)

Neutral
Hari Seldon
Maven89

Scum
Peaceful Whale
Conman
moody7277

So I will leave my vote where it is, would be happy with a lynch of any of the bottom three.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:37 pm UTC

wam wrote:1) We are doing this by text, no facial expressions etc. So tell me how I'm meant to provide proof of frustration!! As I said at the time that was the tone I took from it.

ImageImageImage

Hari, your post had a definte, OMGUS element aimed at maven.
Maven has been at the bottom of my Scum list since the first page, so unless you believe that I have precognition, OMGUS does not apply here.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:48 pm UTC

It does. As you ignored his how analysis by putting it under nitpicking your posts.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Peaceful Whale » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:50 pm UTC

Well, I guess I’m dead. Maybe if I had more time and it wasn’t a school day I’d be able to post more. I’ll probably be hammered, but that’s ok

Here what I’ve got on wam so far.

Wam
Spoiler:
For the longest time wam was pushing on jimbobmacdoodle. If wam is scum, I think it may be early bussing. I believe Hari has pointed this out already win his weird statistic about scum haveing unwarranted aggression towards their scum buddy D1

They did the early “look at me I’m obviously town I didn’t know scum chat was daychat! And they farther pointed how townie it was.

First game spec, agrees with the 6-2-1 setup, says scum will have boosted powers to compensate.

Says LaserGuy vs Somitori looked town vs town. <- this pings me a lot. As scum they’d know that Somitori was scum or town. As I think LaserGuy is town, I’d say this is scum!wam trying to help their scummy friend (i.e Somitori) appear more townie.

Agains says somi’s post appears


If I had to say, wam and somi are scum together.
But I doubt there’s any hope for this lynch to be turned around.
Vote Somitori,

Thoughts on Hari:
His posting style is similar to boomfrog’s, I know boomfrog likes his math and graphs, (crossover). Also, I’d Hari a new person? I haven’t seen him anywhere but here. And the zero count forum.
It’s easy for him to hide behind his wall of text and math stuff. And becuase few people can understand all of it, it’s really easy for him to lead town. If this begins to happen, go back and reread his stuff, see if anything looks off. I know he put me as the scummiest, even though I’m town. I guess I just have a VERY scummy meta... oh well. So be careful, he’s actually my 3rd scummiest just becuase how easily he can trick town if he’s scum.

I am “Werewolf Love interest” vanilla towny.

Basically it goes into depth about my abilities, it says I can turn into a werewolf to spy against other companies and walk undetected in a surprising number of places.

I think this is just flavor, as I cannot actually watch anyone, and can be investigated...

It says I love the receptionist. So I think if they die, I become a werewolf or something. I was kinda hoping that if they did die, I’d become an Indy(with a win con of killing whoever killer her) or something cool like that. I guess we’ll never know now though. I’ll ask Madge after the game.

I am a townie, you’ll see that after the flip, so take what I’ve said seriously even though I’ve been super scummy.

And I swear if town loses I’m going to be grumpy.
Won’t be on till tomorrow, so RIP me...
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:53 pm UTC

Unvote

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Peaceful Whale » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:53 pm UTC

Final thing.

I don’t have the time, but my wagon went very easy becuase of the “scum slip”. Look at that, veteran players should have been a bit more cautious of lynching a player becuase of one word.

I’m certain one scum is one my wagon or helped push it.

*glares at all the haters on the wagon*

I’m sorry though, I shouldn’t have been such an easy lynch.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:57 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale, why would a Werewolf be able to walk around undetected? Also, could you switch your vote to Wam? I may consider switching if you can clear that up.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Peaceful Whale » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 pm UTC

Idk, in the woods?
Ask Madge after the game. I bet she can tell you the reason for it.

(Really wish I could quote my role PM)
Unvote.
Vote wam.


Good luck Hari.

(You’re still scummish)
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby wam » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:03 pm UTC

Pw did you ask the mod about your flavour powers?

As I also had heavy hints in the flavour and the mod confirmed it was just flavour
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:08 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Thoughts on Hari:
His posting style is similar to boomfrog’s, I know boomfrog likes his math and graphs, (crossover). Also, I’d Hari a new person? I haven’t seen him anywhere but here. And the zero count forum.


I agree with this, though as it's not particularly game relevant I haven't really been pushing it.

I am “Werewolf Love interest” vanilla towny.

Basically it goes into depth about my abilities, it says I can turn into a werewolf to spy against other companies and walk undetected in a surprising number of places.


Thank you. You may yet survive the day. Please keep posting your reads.

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:36 pm UTC

Wam, why do you suspect ConMan? Do you no longer read LaserGuy vs Somitomi as Town vs Town?

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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby ConMan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:39 pm UTC

I still haven't read all the backlog of stuff, but I noticed I've come in with a couple of votes on my head already so I'll just say that while I don't know what kind of gambit somi was trying to pull, it seems a bit weird to me. In the interest of some openness, I'll also say that my ability is essentially a passive one, which may be why somi didn't get the rules about night actions right (because I don't have to submit any).
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:51 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale, what's your character name?

I'm still voting for you because you still haven't answered my questions ahoy how you made the slip in the first place, and why you did not "catch" your mistake. I'm phone posting so can't easily go back and quote, but if you sort by author then search my posts for "other", or for me quoting you, you should see what I'm referring to.

Just to confirm your flavour describes those abilities? But that you don't have any game abilities?

I could believe the claim and the receptionist thing activating some forms of ability. Pretty sure Madge confirmed that there may be hidden abilities.

I would also be fairly happy with a wam lynch, for earlier stated reasons, in part.

I re-read somitomi's posts, and I'm back on it potentially being an honest misunderstanding of the other game. He clearly acknowledged that the nights were practically non-existent in that game, but to me just got the reason for that wrong. Ideally, he'd have explained this, but assuming a genuine mistake, he probably assumed or knew people with night actions could submit them either before or during the night. It's not clear cut though. Either way, I don't think Conmitomi should be our lynch candidate for today.

I'm going to bed in about half an hour. @Peaceful Whale, if you can get in even a short response to my above questions, that would be great.
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Re: Halloween Mafia - The Werewolf of Wall Street - Day 1 - Let's Get This Party Started!

Postby Peaceful Whale » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:57 pm UTC

I did ask the mod. I’ve got now powers but apparently that could change.

I don’t have a name. It’s just “werewolf love interest”

In the flavor it says the Vice President also has eyes on the receptionist. And that I’d do anything to win her over.

Could I be an body guard and not know it? That’s unlikely, I’m pretty I’m a vanilla towny, I’ve got “Power: None”

I’m working on my reads, but I’ve stayed up too late, see you guys in the morning.
None of them are finished yet though.
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