Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

[Madge]

Why can't I target whichever of Dim and GoP isn't killed? Is one of them your scumbuddy and will perform the kill if they live?

[Sabrar]

The purpose of this exercise is for all to confirm you as probable Town. That can only be done if you correctly name the target of a player who you cannot possibly have a connection to. Remember that there is at least 1 scum in {dimochka, Gopher of Pern} so it's impossible for you to be scum-buddies with anyone else.

[Madge]

I also think that the alignment of the other member of that set will be more or less confirmed on the flip of the other, so a tracking result is likely not going to tell me anything to target either.

[Gopher of Pern]

Sorry. I have a bad habit of assuming I'm town. So I know that we both aren't scum. Still, I would think that the probability of us both being scum would be low. It makes little sense for me to pick out my scum buddy.

[Sabrar]

Vote: Gopher of Pern

This time I think leaving a will is a good idea but will wait with it a bit.

[Gopher of Pern]

You don't need to bother. Scum will win if you vote for me.

[Sabrar]

Sure.

[Gopher of Pern]

Yes, I am.

[Sabrar]

Quick reminder for people to vote.

[Madge]

vote: gopher of pern

[plytho]

I'm working on my morning read through, looking for damning evidence on dimochka or Madge.

If I vote now we're at hammer, meaning night as soon as mpolo calls it. Sabrar, perhaps you shouldn't wait too long with that will. I'll vote now if you think I should though.

[Sabrar]

If you have currently the time to read through then you should utilize it and give us your view on things..
Give me a heads-up before you vote and I'll post my thoughts as well after which you can hammer.

[plytho]

My thoughts:

Madge posts This in response to the plan that could clear her. Like last time, she’s really intent on discovering scum by tracking them herself rather than clearing herself to leave less room for scum to hide. I sort of feel this makes her look more townie? I feel like scum would be more willing to go along with the plan, knowing there will be easy fake claims available (tracked the killed townie).

The next post has a very interesting line at the end that hasn’t been addressed yet:

I'm just wondering how we can be in MY(P)Lo with 6 players remaining: we can't have 2 scum left, can we? We've killed 2 phantoms, right? I guess it's that alleged traitor?

Madge, the only phantom we lynched so far was LaserGuy. The other lynches were all guild {DethStalker, YOLOSWAG, Bard}.

I really can’t see scum make a mistake like that. I assume Madge got confused by the link between LaserGuy and Bard. This line fits with confused townie Madge. I don’t think it’s a deliberate scum gambit. (But I may not be sufficiently familiar with Madge’s meta.)

Upon reread I see Gopher did address this here.
@Gopher: I guess I really don’t read your posts

I don't think kalira should give gift to myself or dimochka. Whoever gets lynched, the other is likely to get killed in the night, due to being confirmed town.

This sentence from Gopher (that dimochka picked up on) is weird. Gopher’s basically saying that whoever gets lynched will flip scum and he wants us to think the other is town.

2. You would probably agree that living players (you and me excluded) are currently finding you more scummy than me.

Why would dimochka (talking to Gopher) exclude himself? It’s almost like he doesn’t find Gopher scummier than himself?

Conclusion: dimochka's looking scummier than Madge

Well, why dont we analyse the possibility that we are all town, and mpolo just kills a random person each night? Its a possibility, right? /s

That would be a fun bastard game.

@Sabrar: I'm around to vote for the next hour, will hammer after your post.

[Sabrar]

Sabrar's guide on what to do D6 after he was so brutally murdered

Spoiler:

1. Look at Gopher of Pern's flip. Madge claims to have seen him target her N3. If GoP doesn't have Rolecop or other ability that would explain this then lynch Madge.
2. Ask Madge to full claim, Tracker + result from kalira's gift.
3. Ask Madge's target(s) to verify/deny.
4. Ask kalira to full claim, including voting/posting restriction, full list of abilities that can be handed out as gifts, full list on what was given to
whom and why, with special focus on why she didn't give out a bulletproof vest so far.
5. If Gopher of Pern is Rolecop then last scum might be Ninja or GF. Don't rely on Madge's results to exonerate anyone, except if she somehow claims both types of investigative results on the same person (and then only use that info to confirm the target as Town, not Madge herself).
At this point you should have all the mechanical info you're going to get and can decide who to lynch (or NL if you want). My thoughts:

- plytho approaches all the things from the right angles, I don't see him as scum
- kalira is most probably Town due to a) mechanical reasons as I don't think mpolo would have put False Inventor in the game and b) overall content, most significantly her push on LaserGuy D3
- I think it's likely that dimochka and GoP organized their drama in order for us to think that one of them is townie I have several issues with Madge's content:
- not being able to verify Tracker
- not wanting to cooperate with Town
- this post (or rather the one before where she contradicts herself)
- her failure to give a convincing reply to my post here (I know she explained it but to me it looks weak)
With all that said there are a lot of small things (and one big) that tell me she's Town so in the end I think your best bet would be to lynch dimochka.

Final thought that occurred to me way too late: read back the reactions to Bard's claim of town!LaserGuy. Who stands out? Scum knows that the claim is false and this will definitely have an influence on their content.

[plytho]

Vote: Gopher of Pern

[Sabrar]

Formatting error in my post:

- I think it's likely that dimochka and GoP organized their drama in order for us to think that one of them is townie I have several issues with Madge's content:

should be read as

- I think it's likely that dimochka and GoP organized their drama in order for us to think that one of them is townie.

- line break -

I have several issues with Madge's content:

[Sabrar]

Yes, I'm convinced it's either dimochka or Madge. Let's hope luck will be with us for once and Madge gets a result that can clear her.

[mpolo]

DIRECTOR

So, Gopher, we've got to do your big death scene, but you people have arranged that no one else who is in the scene is actually available to do the scene… Edgar is dead. Edmund is dead, so we can't announce that he is dead, so the Captain is pretty useless. Albany is dead. Kent is dead. But you'll manage somehow. Act from the heart!

Pushes Gopher of Pern onto the stage.

KING LEAR

Vengeance! plague! death! confusion!
The king would speak with Cornwall; the dear father
Would with his daughter speak, commands her service:
Are they inform'd of this? My breath and blood!
Fiery? the fiery duke? Tell the hot duke that--
No, but not yet: may be he is not well:
Infirmity doth still neglect all office
Whereto our health is bound; we are not ourselves
When nature, being oppress'd, commands the mind
To suffer with the body: I'll forbear;
And am fall'n out with my more headier will,
To take the indisposed and sickly fit
For the sound man. Death on my state!
And my poor fool is hang'd! No, no, no life!
Why should a dog, a horse, a rat, have life,
And thou no breath at all? Thou'lt come no more,
Never, never, never, never, never!
Pray you, undo this button: thank you, sir.
Do you see this? Look on her, look, her lips,
Look there, look there!

Enter an EXTRA, armed.

EXTRA

Will somebody shut this guy up already?

Kills LEAR.

Gopher of Pern is dead. Will anyone be around for the curtain call? Find out in our next episode… Deadline is on Monday evening, but if everyone makes it clear they have sent in what needs to be sent, I will start the day earlier… Countdown

[mpolo]

DIRECTOR

You know what, forget trying to finish the play. We'll just do the curtain call!

Let's give it up for Gopher of Pern, unfortunately deceased, but a certified Seer!

Let's give it up for Sabrar, who seems to have mysteriously disappeared, a real Cop at heart!

And here's the rest of the cast!

Wild applause.

MADGE

Um, I think that there are two good guys and two bad guys, so maybe we can still turn the play around. After all, plytho visited kalira last night. That has to count for something.

KALIRA

Actually, that means I can tell the two phantoms that I'm on their side! I survived the play!

PLYTHO AND DIMOCHKA

Exactly. Boo, Madge!

Madge dies.

The game is over. The Phantoms of the Theater have driven the living (except for kalira, whom they are willing to tolerate) from their haunt.

Win for Phantoms (LaserGuy, plytho, dimochka) and Survivor (kalira)!

Balance wasn't perfect here — as town didn't get any of the breaks that should have helped them (cross kills and cross-faction lovers), but I hope that you all enjoyed yourselves.

The last couple Role PMs:

Spoiler:

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of Cordelia. While some have described you as stuck up and narcissistic, we are sure that you will do a smashing job. I'm a bit concerned with your association with plytho and LaserGuy. I am not sure that I trust them. And why can I see through you?

You are a Phantom of the Theater. When the mortals decided to use your theater, there was only one logical solution. You win when all threats to your group are removed and you control the vote in the day. Each night, the Phantoms may choose one of their number to kill another actor. If you carry out the kill yourself, you cannot be followed. Try to role-play being stuck up. Because you are narcissistic, you want other people to be talking about you. If you have no other votes, you must vote for yourself except in the last 24 real-life hours of the day, if no one else is voting for you. (As soon as someone else votes you, you are free to unvote and vote someone else, but if they change their vote so that no one notices you any more, you will fix that with your own vote.)

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of Goneril. Your confidence and trustworthiness will be a great benison for the troupe. I am a little concerned with your hanging around with dimochka and LaserGuy, though. I think those two are bad news!

You are a Phantom of the Theater. When the mortals decided to use your theater, there was only one logical solution. You win when all threats to your group are removed and you control the vote in the day. Each night, the Phantoms may choose one of their number to kill another actor. Additionally, you have the personal power of Rolecop. This will detect the "base role" of the person you investigate, not any modifiers due to their traits. Because you are confident, you will not change your first vote of any day unless forced to do so. Because you are trustworthy, you may choose one night on which you will appear human to investigations.

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of King Lear. I know that you have not been acting very long -- in fact somewhat inexperienced. Nonetheless, with patient work, I'm sure you will shine. I know you've been dabbling in the occult. Hopefully you can use those abilities to get us through the recent unpleasantness.

You are town. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated. You have the ability to investigate other players at night to determine if they are human or not. As an inexperienced actor, you should try to mimic the other players as much as possible (you decide if you're mimicking one person or everybody). Due to your patience, if you get three "human" results in a row, on the fourth night you can choose to use a "detect supernatural" spell and automatically find a supernatural enemy.

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of Servant. While you are an old hand at the theater, someone had to play the charismatic servant stabbed by Regan early in the play after he kills Cornwall. I'm sure you'll understand. Your great experience will certainly be of use to the troupe in the recent unpleasantness, being able to identify the true motives of persons not caught up in the supernatural.

You are town. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated. You are a standard cop, but limited to detecting criminal threats to the town, not supernatural threats. Due to your charisma, if you are tied in the Votals at the end of the day, no tie-breaking extension will be used, and the other person will be lynched.

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of the Duke of Cornwall. I hope that you will be able to control your gossipy nature, especially in the midst of all the unpleasantness. Certainly, your generosity will be a boon to all.

You are a survivor. You win if you are still standing at the end of the game. You have two powers to help you do this. You may send one anonymous PM to another player each night (send me the message and the person to receive it). You may also anonymously give out three gifts in the course of the play: a one-shot doctor, a one-shot tracker, a one-shot magical medallion (protects the user against supernatural attacks). Being generous, you unfortunately can't keep them for yourself.

[dimochka]

NICE! Awesome work team. Off to read spoilers.

Also a quick note - my excuses about being busy/away were completely truthful, but I also realized (for the first time) that I tend to active lurk as scum. I will make an effort to stop doing that, and I'm posting it here so I don't have an excuse in future games.

[mpolo]

Felt like giving Madge a little more send-off…

DIRECTOR

You know what, forget trying to finish the play. We'll just do the curtain call!

Let's give it up for Gopher of Pern, unfortunately deceased, but a certified Seer!

Let's give it up for Sabrar, who seems to have mysteriously disappeared, a real Cop at heart!

And here's the rest of the cast!

Wild applause.

MADGE

Um, I think that there are two good guys and two bad guys, so maybe we can still turn the play around. After all, plytho visited kalira last night. That has to count for something.

KALIRA

Actually, that means I can tell the two phantoms that I'm on their side! I survived the play!

PLYTHO AND DIMOCHKA

Exactly. Boo, Madge!

Madge dies.

MADGE

Gasps

Even when night is so short, my one-night protection has already failed. Alackaday and woe is me!

Madge dies.

MADGE

Alack! I have been struck! Never shall my eyes gaze again upon my beloved England! Or Australia!

KALIRA uses a flamethrower to remove the remaining body, as the DIRECTOR runs for his life.

The game is over. The Phantoms of the Theater have driven the living (except for kalira, whom they are willing to tolerate) from their haunt.

Win for Phantoms (LaserGuy, plytho, dimochka) and Survivor (kalira)!

Balance wasn't perfect here — as town didn't get any of the breaks that should have helped them (cross kills and cross-faction lovers), but I hope that you all enjoyed yourselves.

The last couple Role PMs:

Spoiler:

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of Cordelia. While some have described you as stuck up and narcissistic, we are sure that you will do a smashing job. I'm a bit concerned with your association with plytho and LaserGuy. I am not sure that I trust them. And why can I see through you?

You are a Phantom of the Theater. When the mortals decided to use your theater, there was only one logical solution. You win when all threats to your group are removed and you control the vote in the day. Each night, the Phantoms may choose one of their number to kill another actor. If you carry out the kill yourself, you cannot be followed. Try to role-play being stuck up. Because you are narcissistic, you want other people to be talking about you. If you have no other votes, you must vote for yourself except in the last 24 real-life hours of the day, if no one else is voting for you. (As soon as someone else votes you, you are free to unvote and vote someone else, but if they change their vote so that no one notices you any more, you will fix that with your own vote.)

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of Goneril. Your confidence and trustworthiness will be a great benison for the troupe. I am a little concerned with your hanging around with dimochka and LaserGuy, though. I think those two are bad news!

You are a Phantom of the Theater. When the mortals decided to use your theater, there was only one logical solution. You win when all threats to your group are removed and you control the vote in the day. Each night, the Phantoms may choose one of their number to kill another actor. Additionally, you have the personal power of Rolecop. This will detect the "base role" of the person you investigate, not any modifiers due to their traits. Because you are confident, you will not change your first vote of any day unless forced to do so. Because you are trustworthy, you may choose one night on which you will appear human to investigations.

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of King Lear. I know that you have not been acting very long -- in fact somewhat inexperienced. Nonetheless, with patient work, I'm sure you will shine. I know you've been dabbling in the occult. Hopefully you can use those abilities to get us through the recent unpleasantness.

You are town. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated. You have the ability to investigate other players at night to determine if they are human or not. As an inexperienced actor, you should try to mimic the other players as much as possible (you decide if you're mimicking one person or everybody). Due to your patience, if you get three "human" results in a row, on the fourth night you can choose to use a "detect supernatural" spell and automatically find a supernatural enemy.

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of Servant. While you are an old hand at the theater, someone had to play the charismatic servant stabbed by Regan early in the play after he kills Cornwall. I'm sure you'll understand. Your great experience will certainly be of use to the troupe in the recent unpleasantness, being able to identify the true motives of persons not caught up in the supernatural.

You are town. You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated. You are a standard cop, but limited to detecting criminal threats to the town, not supernatural threats. Due to your charisma, if you are tied in the Votals at the end of the day, no tie-breaking extension will be used, and the other person will be lynched.

Welcome to our production of King Lear! You have been chosen to play the role of the Duke of Cornwall. I hope that you will be able to control your gossipy nature, especially in the midst of all the unpleasantness. Certainly, your generosity will be a boon to all.

You are a survivor. You win if you are still standing at the end of the game. You have two powers to help you do this. You may send one anonymous PM to another player each night (send me the message and the person to receive it). You may also anonymously give out three gifts in the course of the play: a one-shot doctor, a one-shot tracker, a one-shot magical medallion (protects the user against supernatural attacks). Being generous, you unfortunately can't keep them for yourself.

[plytho]

Well done team. Congrats kalira. I enjoyed my first time as scum. Losing on the first mislynch is pretty harsh though.

[Sabrar]

Congrats to scum! Especially to plytho.
We had a 9-3-3-1 setup? Basically we had no chance after D3 as kalira could have joined scum anytime and prevent Town from winning.

@Gopher of Pern: please accept my sincere apologies.

@kalira: who did you give the medallion? bessie and SirGabriel were both killed by supernatural scum unless I've missed something.

Off to read spoilers.

[Sabrar]

@plytho: why did you wait with the hammer?

[kalira]

Oh good! I got up this morning thinking I was going to put a post in before Day end about scum not targetting Madge, but by the time I got here hammer was already down and Day ended. I was going to be very sad if I screwed up my ability to win by handing Madge that. It was the only thing I had left to give, though.

I think I wrote this in GoJoe, but for the record, I never worked with Yolo's team.

It actually turned out to be very lucky for me in the end that Sabrar v1.0 died on the first night. I sent him a message (a not at all helpful one, considering the concept of supernaturals had already been discussed in the thread; I just hadn't read/realized that) on N1, but he didn't get it because he died. If he had gotten it, he probably would have paid a lot more attention to LaserGuy's claim he received a message claiming there was a survivor willing to work with scum.

Lived each night certain I was gonna die, except perhaps slightly less on the one where LaserGuy was lynched and left that message about me to his scummates. LG, for my knowledge, was "transparent" code or something? (This may be answered in GoJoe, but I haven't gotten there yet.)

I'm still slightly salty literally nobody was even interested in my suggestion we lynch LG to kill Bard too. Y'all were absolutely sure at least one was scum, and you were too scared to risk anything. I could've won with town Also very surprised supernaturals didn't come after me the night after Bard's lynch because of my heavy emphasis on killing LG. I only sent LG that message that night (end of night/beginning of day), so it's not like they knew I was possibly on their side.

I yolo'd (not reference to the player) a decent number of times in this game, and it ended up paying off, but I don't think I'll do it again. So nerve-wracking.

Ninja: Sabrar - I actually gave it to Madge. If scum had targeted her for the NK on the last night, they would have missed!

[plytho]

@plytho: why did you wait with the hammer?

This is why:

Ninja: Sabrar - I actually gave it to Madge. If scum had targeted her for the NK on the last night, they would have missed!

I wasn't sure hammer would win the game so I kept trying to look townie. It probably wouldn't have mattered, Gopher's flip would have confirmed too much I think but I didn't want to take any risks.

[plytho]

Also very surprised supernaturals didn't come after me the night after Bard's lynch because of my heavy emphasis on killing LG. I only sent LG that message that night (end of night/beginning of day), so it's not like they knew I was possibly on their side.

We figured LaserGuy was definitely going to be lynched and I'd rolecopped SDK so we knew we needed to kill him by endgame.

[mpolo]

Congrats to scum! Especially to plytho.
We had a 9-3-3-1 setup? Basically we had no chance after D3 as kalira could have joined scum anytime and prevent Town from winning.

I had just trusted that the Mafiascum setup (which you found) was basically balanced, added a survivor, and gave town slightly better effects for their personalities. I didn't think to calculate how the numbers would have gone. Ultimately, a two-team setup is always hard on town, but we're doing Shakespearean tragedy here. And town won the grossly unbalanced Shakespeare II.

There were several moments where everything depended on kalira fully throwing in her support to the Phantoms.

I was kind of proud of giving the survivor a bit of agency to keep her interested in the game.

[SDK]

Well played, ghosts. This was a tough game for town, but you guys played very well and deserve the win. Thanks mpolo for running it! Good game, all.

[LaserGuy]

Great job team! Good game town!

Lived each night certain I was gonna die, except perhaps slightly less on the one where LaserGuy was lynched and left that message about me to his scummates. LG, for my knowledge, was "transparent" code or something? (This may be answered in GoJoe, but I haven't gotten there yet.)

Kind of. If plytho and dimochka looked for the word "transparent" in our scumchat, they would have found this, and only this, post:

I feel like Kalira would've been a bit more transparent had she had a cop. I just don't see that play anywhere. She would've also had more information, but doesn't look like she does. I mean I would've expected her to cop Laserguy on N2.

In them main thread, the only time the word appears is something that Bard wrote, so I felt it was specific enough if they went looking for it. From what we knew already at that point, it pretty much had to be you or Madge.

[#HBC | YOLOSWAG]

YOLO for MVP.

Good game all. I think letting people who have been nightkilled replace back into the game is against the spirit of the game though, despite it being common practice.

[dimochka]

I think letting people who have been nightkilled replace back into the game is against the spirit of the game though, despite it being common practice.

The general consensus is that it isn't preferred, but it's better than modkilling.

[#HBC | YOLOSWAG]

I yolo'd (not reference to the player) a decent number of times in this game, and it ended up paying off, but I don't think I'll do it again. So nerve-wracking.

It's a way of life.

[dimochka]

Kind of. If plytho and dimochka looked for the word "transparent" in our scumchat, they would have found this, and only this, post:

I feel like Kalira would've been a bit more transparent had she had a cop. I just don't see that play anywhere. She would've also had more information, but doesn't look like she does. I mean I would've expected her to cop Laserguy on N2.

In them main thread, the only time the word appears is something that Bard wrote, so I felt it was specific enough if they went looking for it. From what we knew already at that point, it pretty much had to be you or Madge.

I completely missed this. That was a good play on your part. But at least I did figure out that you weren't just spreading wine! I also did post this for Kalira:

The survivor can choose teams (and would actually be able to play kingmaker if that were the case), but that's likely irrelevant.

I thought it might hint that she should side with us.

[SDK]

YOLO for MVP.

Good game all. I think letting people who have been nightkilled replace back into the game is against the spirit of the game though, despite it being common practice.

Zombie replacements are better than a modkill, but I agree with you that it is disruptive and should be used as a last resort. If there had been any lynched players that could have qualified as zombies, that would have been better. As it was, that may have been mpolo's only option aside from modkill.

[mpolo]

I do want to congratulate everyone for the volume of posting. We got more pages of content out of this than the 26-player Smalltown game! And I have like a million messages from scumchat in my Inbox…

[LaserGuy]

I had just trusted that the Mafiascum setup (which you found) was basically balanced, added a survivor, and gave town slightly better effects for their personalities. I didn't think to calculate how the numbers would have gone. Ultimately, a two-team setup is always hard on town, but we're doing Shakespearean tragedy here. And town won the grossly unbalanced Shakespeare II.

There were several moments where everything depended on kalira fully throwing in her support to the Phantoms.

I was kind of proud of giving the survivor a bit of agency to keep her interested in the game.

This was a really fun setup. Playing against another scum team adds a very different dynamic to the game from the scum POV.

I think the setup was probably somewhat scum favored, but it could have gone a lot of different ways depending on mislynches and crosskills. I think if it had been a 17 player start with one more townie, that probably would have given town the breathing room that they didn't really have this game.

I completely missed this. That was a good play on your part. But at least I did figure out that you weren't just spreading wine!

plytho found it, didn't he?

[Sabrar]

So many things to react to.

Regarding setup

Spoiler:

Night-actions, 1-sided lovers, possibility of scum cross-killing, in summary everything that is not 100%-guaranteed to have an effect should not be used as a balancing mechanic. It leaves the outcome of the game decided by chance. It never occurred to me that in a 16-player game Town would only start with 9 members. Overall there is a good reason why the setup is in the Untested section of the site and not the Official one. Also it is meant to be an Open setup, so Town has at least some idea of the number of scum.

PS: over on Mafia Universe they are holding the Championship games in a 12-3 totally vanilla format. Town has the opportunity to mislynch four times before LYLO. Still, majority of the games are currently won by scum.

Regarding MYPLO

Spoiler:

4-3-1 without Doc and the only protection in the hands of Survivor is not MYPLO. It is not MYLO and it is not LYLO. It's an automatic loss for Town, even with the voting mechanics. With no Vig Survivor should in all cases simply join scum for immediate win. Even with the possibility of Town managing to lynch scum because of my charismatic trait next day would have been 3-2-1 with me dead because of NK and then it's the same situation.
Now I get that Survivor might not want to claim but scum has the numbers to make it work (just like it should have worked in Diablo), especially with Survivor notifying scum that she wants to side with them. I think that declaring MYPLO was very misleading, though it didn't matter in the end.

@BoomFrog: I'm glad we noticed the same tells but your breadcrumb was too subtle for me. Over time I've degraded my surety on dimochka but unfortunately not soon enough. However my tell on Madge is deeper than this, glad to see I was right there.
Also you were absolutely right here, it's just that I always think scum puts in the effort and would find out the public info for themselves as well.

@plytho: I've got exactly 1 ping from you when you said that Gopher vs me did not feel like town vs town. I asked myself 'how can he be so sure about this?' and then promptly put it aside.

@bessie: I explicitly mentioned that you were killed because your scum-reads. Too bad it included GoP.

@Gopher of Pern: you and jimbob always look scummy to me for some reason. That's why I attack you as scum as well.

@kalira: as mentioned before if we had even an inkling that setup was unbalanced with 2 3-player scum-teams then I would have immediately agreed with you and lynched LaserGuy D3, but my safe play should have worked in every other scenario. Also I'm glad I was right about something being off with the medallion. You should have given it to SirGabriel N3 if you were Town.

[mpolo]

Regarding MYPLO
[spoiler]4-3-1 without Doc and the only protection in the hands of Survivor is not MYPLO. It is not MYLO and it is not LYLO. It's an automatic loss for Town, even with the voting mechanics.

I felt that it was as yet uncertain whether kalira would side with town or scum (she was unsure of who her buddies were). Furthermore, she later felt forced to give the protection amulet to Madge, and scum did in fact consider killing Mage that night. If they had, it would have produced a 2-2-1 situation with kalira as yet unsure of who she should side with, hence giving at least some chance for town to get out of it. I guess I should have just refused to comment. Declaring an automatic loss at that point would have removed those chances. "All that has to happen" requires omniscience of who is on what team. Yes, the scum could have all claimed to be scum and won at that point, but they lacked the conviction to do so, where a mislynch would have given them a win without having to claim. Hence my hedging there.

[plytho]

@plytho: I've got exactly 1 ping from you when you said that Gopher vs me did not feel like town vs town. I asked myself 'how can he be so sure about this?' and then promptly put it aside.

I think I would have thought that as town as well. But in this case I was trying to convince others that at least one of you was scum.

Btw, thanks to the people complimenting my game in gojoe I'm glad my efforts paid off.