The Dark Tower - Mission failure

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LaserGuy
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:23 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@LaserGuy - Zyth and mpolo have both posted content since that reads post. What are your reads on them? If you had to label Gopher and FrozenFlame on a scum to town spectrum, or get lynched, where would you put them?


mpolo - Content has been fairly light, but reads have been very good. He was the first person to meta-read you as being "off", and other reads seem okay. The slip about forgetting scum have day chat reads fairly genuine to me, so I'm inclined to put him as leaning town.

Zyth - Seems very meticulous, asking a lot of questions and collecting data, not really presenting any opinions unless he is fairly certain. His reads of BoomFrog and dimochka both seem very good, and I agree with his recent comment that having either flip will probably give some helpful insight into the other. Leaning town for now.

Gopher - My read here is mostly null, beyond that I agree with YOLOSWAG that for a quick skim his chosen reads seem a bit off. Everyone should really have some opinion of at least you and dimochka by this point in the game, and probably several others as well. Slightly leaning scum pending more content.

FrozenFlame - Light on content beyond setup spec for IRL reasons, which is fair enough, though it's getting late in the day and the promised reads haven't arrived, which is concerning. Like Gopher, it's a little odd that when he did pop in to post and let us know he was alive, the content he chose to focus on was not really the most pressing issues from the thread. For someone with as much experience as he claims to have, I'm surprised he didn't take the opportunity to engage more. I'd probably put him slightly scummier than Gopher, who at least was actively putting reads on people.

Noticed I haven't put anything down for Carlington. Not much to say yet though:
Carlington - Reads seem okay. Nothing really pings me one way or the other. Marking him as neutral.

Rough town to scum list would look like:
Town
LaserGuy
plytho
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
SDK
mpolo
#HBC | Zyth
bessie
Carlington
Gopher of Pern
FrozenFlame
jimbobmacdoodle
BoomFrog
dimochka
Scum

with the latter two essentially equivalent.

@LaserGuy - your "unofficial vote" on BoomFrog - is that because you still think dimochka is scummier?


I'd be happy lynching either; I'm fairly certain that both are scum. Because dimochka has interacted with more people and has more content generally, I think lynching him will probably provide us with more information going forward, so I'm happy with my vote as it is for the moment.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:55 pm UTC

So anyway, I think I've used up my townie credit, I've gotten the reactions that I can and it's time to pull back the curtain. First, a quick intro for the newer players: Playing scum is hardest when you have to react to an unusual situation. When everything is "run of the mill" you can act like you did last game when you were actually town. Therefore the best strategy town has is to have something usual happen which will catch scum off guard. The return of a veteran player who declares himself unreadable and recommends his own lynch was intended to be that kind of unusual thing.

Also, when I said dimochka was convincing and changed my vote to JimBob, that was a lie. Dimochka was very unconvincing, but I wanted the lynch on him to be less clear cut. A definitive lynch wagon doesn't give us much to go on, everyone just piles on, but a split lynch between two choices gives a lot more "opportunity" for scum to try and influence things and thus reveal their ill intent in later days when we know the alignments of those involved. I expected scum to push for one or the other, but instead there was a bit of a lull and then the third scummiest player (me) started getting attention. That attention was started by plytho and LaserGuy who I believe are town so that indicates to me that scum didn't have a desire to influence the lynch or are simply cautious players. Ironically, this whole process has made me feel JimBob is scummier then I thought when I voted for him, but I still have a stronger read on Dimochka.

Here's my notes. Most of it is connections to domichka since that's where most of the action has been.
Spoiler:
1. jimbobmacdoodle - Slightly scummy, D1 struck me as overly defensive, which is odd for an experienced player. If people find you scummy you should do some good scum hunting to disprove them, not just analysis and rationalize your own actions. Weak opinions like he's trying to build consensus before acting.

2. mpolo - Busy as always. Calls me scummy despite knowing my meta, feels like looking for a safe third target. Scummy if Domichka and JimBob are both scum. Comments about domichka being a jester seems ridiculous and feel like trying to protect a scummate, plus scum points if domichka is scum.

3. SDK - Leaning townie but good enough player to trick me. Plus town points if domichka is scum, but not that much, he's bold enough to make the sacrifice and that could actually explain why domichka seemed so resigned to being lynched.

4. LaserGuy - leaning town, conclusions didn't follow reads D1 on SDK and JimBob. Reasonable reaction to my behavior. Staying active even with no pressure on him, so extra town points if Jim or Domichka are town. Extra scum points if Jim is scum. Minus scum points if SDK is scum.
Not prefering lynching me over domichka. Big plus town points if domichka is scum. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=122547&start=120#p4187975

5. dimochka - Scummy non-commital to anything he says.

6. Carlington - So townie it hurts. Excellent into post, well done Carlington.

7. Gopher of Pern - Not enough content to judge. Needs a prod?

8. bessie - Town, contributing and reasonable reads and prods.
Points out game is nightless and scum are already chatting. Big townie points for this. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=122547&p=4186419&hilit=nightless#p4186419

9. plytho - Newbie town, trying to contribute. Newbie scum would lurk more and be less assertive.

10. #HBC | YOLOSWAG -
Attacks JimBob. Plus town points if JimBob is scum.
Easily convinced by domichka when D1 wagon was formed. Plus scum points if domichka is scum.

11. FrozenFlame - Absent for RL issues. Meant to vote for domichka very early so townie points if domichka is scum.

12. #HBC | Zyth - Leaning town - Interesting point about me being slightly scummy on everyone's lists. I don't think scum-Zyth would have pointed this out.
viewtopic.php?p=4187764#p4187571
Attacks dimochka and LaserGuy, plus townie points if either are scum. viewtopic.php?p=4187764#p4186646


So conclusions:
townie:
Carlington
bessie
plytho
#HBC | Zyth

neutral:
SDK
Gopher of Pern
FrozenFlame
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
LaserGuy

scummy:
jimbobmacdoodle
mpolo
dimochka

Of particular note is that despite my last post once I reviewed my notes LaserGuy is still had a lot of other scummy behavior so I'm think he is actually just competent scum. But if domichka is indeed scum then laserGuy is townie.

In reguards to the mpolo scum chat thing, I think it is very possible that scum-mpolo didn't read his PM carefully and at that point scum hadn't used chat yet. So it's possible for mpolo to have genuinely not known mafia have chat and still be mafia. If mpolo is mafia that indicates the other mafia are more passive players, so plus townie points to SDK if mpolo is mafia. :roll:

Unvote

Vote: dimochka

Prod: GoP and FrozenFlame
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:47 am UTC

Apologies all. My busy period has ended, and I should be able to post more regularly.

To answer questions:

plytho wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:jimbob does feel very suss to me. They way they are being a bit defensive about things rubs me the wrong way. However, they did sorta slip that they forgot that scum have day chat, but whether that is deliberate or not, I can't tell. For the moment, I will trust them.
Where did you see that slip?


Having a look now. And having not found it, and seeing someone mention it was mpolo who mentioned it, I got it completely wrong. It was mpolo that mentioned we can't differentiate between SK and scum until after they'd had a chance to communicate. So I take that back.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:
FOS Gopher

This post rubbed me the wrong way because there's a lot of "however, but" in these reads. It reminds me of scum being very choosy with his words and avoiding linking himself to anyone. Also, he said these are his first thoughts on a skim read. So that means that one of the first things he feels the town should know is that mpolo is null due to playing to his meta? I don't mean that in some kind of mocking way, I just find it hard to believe that that thought would be one of the first things he wants to share as town.


There was one however, and I've now realised that it was a mistake. I'm sorry for trying to analyse all the information, instead of blindly picking one fault and running with it. And your other concern is handled below.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Gopher - why did you choose to comment on mpolo in particular, but not some of those with significantly more content (e.g. dimochka)?


I was simply going through my reads of everyone in list order. Jimbob, mpolo, SDK and laserguy were the first four on the list.

Now some thoughts:

BoomFrog wrote:In reguards to the mpolo scum chat thing, I think it is very possible that scum-mpolo didn't read his PM carefully and at that point scum hadn't used chat yet. So it's possible for mpolo to have genuinely not known mafia have chat and still be mafia. If mpolo is mafia that indicates the other mafia are more passive players, so plus townie points to SDK if mpolo is mafia. :roll:


I don't think that's very likely, but I do get the sense that mpolo is the type of player that may deliberately make that slip as scum, to throw off players. I was less sure of jimbob doing that deliberately.

And Boomfrog, I did notice your declaration, and I rolled my eyes, knowing exactly what you were planning to do. As to the statement, I believe it about every player with more than a few games :P

Will post reads a bit later, gotta go for a bit.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:07 am UTC

Unofficial Votals:

BoomFrog (1) : mpolo
dimochka (6) : SDK, #HBC Zyth, LaserGuy, jimbobmacdoodle, #HBC YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog
jimbobmacdoodle (2) : bessie, dimochka

Not voting: Carlington, FrozenFlame, Gopher of Pern, plytho

dimochka is at L-1. I would prefer if no one hammered yet, because I like to get as much discussion as possible on D1, and I would especially like to see some reads from FrozenFlame and Gopher of Pern before we have any flips.

Here’s the remainder of my reads list. Still poorly organized because time is passing. And still incomplete, in that I haven’t tied it all together and drawn all my conclusions yet. I’ll try to get to that soon.

Gopher of Pern – Not enough to make a sound read. Has RL excuse, and his content gives me the impression of someone doing the best he can to contribute and doesn’t necessarily strike me as scummy in that context. I don’t understand his comment on SDK, do you think SDK is acting like he does when he’s scum?

SDK – I like his analysis of dimochka. I don’t like that he’s poked jimbob but avoided going after him. Still waiting on his read of jimbob in which I’m sure he will address my concerns, and looking forward to his full reads list.

#HBC YOLOSWAG – Another aggressive, experienced player from another site. His style is different than what I’m used to from most players. My impression is that he’s good at picking up on the small things and seeing them in the context of the whole (something that SDK is also very good at and I’m not). If he’s town I would not be surprised if this turns out to be accurate:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:I'm looking at the team being within

[jimbob/dimochka/boomfrog/GoP/frozen/Carlington]


#HBC Zyth – Claims to be more of an intuitive than an analytical player, but displays analytical skill nonetheless. Claims they’re having issues reading LaserGuy but even so does a pretty good read of him. Zyth, I would be really interested in even a brief read on everyone, because I like your content, and I would like to see more of it. Doubtful of a serial killer because numbers in their first post, and hasn’t brought it up again, but also hasn’t been pushed for more (like I’ve done with jimbob and Carlington). Note that there is a difference in these comments:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:With the numbers of 8/3/1/1, why is it likely that there is an SK in this game? In the worst case scenario: a mislynch and mafia and SK both kill a member of town, we are in mylo on Day 2, that's pretty crazy.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:FWIW, I think an SK a little unlikely at this point because IIRC, in Dollhouse, Town had all but lost after N1, due to too many deaths. A 9-4 would be entirely reasonable, as it gives Town two mislynches before LYLO (assuming there is one death each night).


Replies to newer content (everything posted since the first part of my reads list), town-scum list, etc in a little while.

Ninja’d by Gopher of Pern while I was typing this up, my read was done before his latest post. Will update in my next post.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:48 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:How about bessie is so brilliant that she can probably successfully fool even the most seasoned mafia player? Did you consider that possibility? Well did you?


I can't decide if you're just being snarky because everyone always just assumes you're town and doesn't bother to read you properly, or if you're putting a giant lampshade over the fact that you aren't.
If I answer this now, I will be depriving you of the fun of trying to figure it out! :D

BoomFrog wrote:6. Carlington - So townie it hurts. Excellent into post, well done Carlington.
What was so spectacularly townie about Carlington’s post? His first post doesn’t have an unambiguous opinion on anyone, and his second post is mostly a noncommittal speculation about the setup and a concern that I’m tunneling on jimbob. He had to be modprodded to make his first post, and unfortunately, it looks like business as usual for Carlington and we’re going to need a modprod to get post #3.

BoomFrog wrote:In reguards to the mpolo scum chat thing, I think it is very possible that scum-mpolo didn't read his PM carefully and at that point scum hadn't used chat yet. So it's possible for mpolo to have genuinely not known mafia have chat and still be mafia. If mpolo is mafia that indicates the other mafia are more passive players, so plus townie points to SDK if mpolo is mafia. :roll:
Is this serious? mpolo made this mistake in his third post and by that time everyone had posted except Carlington (BoomFrog had one post and FrozenFlame two posts so these three would be the most passive players at that point).

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm not sure I agree with the first part of this statement. Surely showing good and bad things about players is a way of making sure the viewpoint is balanced and fair?
I feel like I want to comment on this, but I don’t know exactly how to say what I want to say. I agree and it’s balanced and fair and townie to look at the good and the bad when doing player analysis. But I don’t think that a balanced analysis is necessarily an indication of the analyzer’s towniness. Scum can and does produce good content. An independent should produce townie-like reads because they are looking for mafia just like town is, and they don’t have teammates. And experienced mafia may be able to produce more balanced reads than newbie town. In Dollhouse mafia, I was frustrated with the lackluster D1 content so I made a reads list and FoSed everyone in the game. I let a few players point out how scummy that was, then using the exact same information I made another list with a town read on everyone. And I think I had valid observations in both lists. I guess my point is that a player can use the same content to make a scum read or a town read as needed to suit their purposes. So fair and balanced isn’t necessarily townie, it’s safe. I don’t think I explained this very well; ask me questions and I’ll try to answer.

Working on updated reads/town-scum list.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Gopher of Pern » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:01 am UTC

Continuing on with my reads:

Dimochka: Was initially very weird. Would make points, then back off them unnecessarily, I feel. Then a big analysis post, which seems ok on the surface, but ultimately doesn't say a lot. Then promises to answer questions later, but hasn't replied since. Having looked a bit closer, I can see why the wagon is hitched, and I can't say I blame them. I'd very possibly vote for them if they weren't at L-1.

Carlington: Someone who has posted less often than me! But probably more content. This seems to be a reoccurring theme, and as he was previously scum with the same behaviour, I would not be surprised if they were scum again. I'm not sure I've played with a town Carlington (but I'm biased by the last few games.)

Gopher of Pern: Towniest town, that ever did town. Could provide some more content though.

bessie: I find her a bit odd, similar to jimbob. She pokes at people for particular wording, at then make a point about RVS being over. Dictacting what other peoples votes and such are just rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't think that bessie is playing like she usually does.

plytho: Getting good feelings from them. Asks good questions, provides a decent read list. Can't fault them at all.

YOLOSWAG: Should vote you just for your name. But seriously, they seemed very active lurky at the beginning, not really contributing much, and then asks some questions, which seem to be very nitpicky, and not at all helpful. They then focus on easy targets, jimbob and dimochka. Overall, I'm finding them quite scummy.

Frozenflame: Mostly meta stuff in the first few posts, then a belated one with some reads. Accepting that they are busy, firmly neutral, but would like more actual content.

Zyth: I can't help but be caught up with your use of null. It ticked me off before, and it's doing it again now. But that's my problem. Overall seems alright, maybe initially a bit active lurky, but I can't fault their content later. I'd consider them town.

Boomfrog: That last post is the Boomfrog I love to see. I'm not sure whether the gambit was a scum or a town one, but it can indeed be an effective one. Neutral for now.

My list:

Gopher of Pern
plytho
LaserGuy
#HBC | Zyth
SDK
FrozenFlame
BoomFrog
mpolo
Carlington
jimbobmacdoodle
bessie
dimochka
#HBC | YOLOSWAG

Will post a few more thoughts later.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Carlington » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:58 am UTC

bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:6. Carlington - So townie it hurts. Excellent into post, well done Carlington.
What was so spectacularly townie about Carlington’s post? His first post doesn’t have an unambiguous opinion on anyone, and his second post is mostly a noncommittal speculation about the setup and a concern that I’m tunneling on jimbob. He had to be modprodded to make his first post, and unfortunately, it looks like business as usual for Carlington and we’re going to need a modprod to get post #3.

Nah, this time I was just waiting to see whether anyone would react to what BoomFrog seems to be doing here. I'm going to put you as town for now, based on the combination of you having been the first person to speak up about what was, frankly, a weird read and the fact that you were so forthcoming in your opinion in doing so.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Carlington » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:03 am UTC

Wait, bessie, is your ongoing issue with my reads just that I don't put some exact label on every player? Because like, I feel that the tone I write each player's read with and the things I like for them are enough to convey my thoughts on each player, is that not the case? I guess it's more obvious to me because I'm in my head when nobody else is, I'll try to communicate more clearly.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:08 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Carlington: Someone who has posted less often than me! But probably more content. This seems to be a reoccurring theme, and as he was previously scum with the same behaviour, I would not be surprised if they were scum again. I'm not sure I've played with a town Carlington (but I'm biased by the last few games.)


bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote: 6. Carlington - So townie it hurts. Excellent into post, well done Carlington.

What was so spectacularly townie about Carlington’s post? His first post doesn’t have an unambiguous opinion on anyone, and his second post is mostly a noncommittal speculation about the setup and a concern that I’m tunneling on jimbob. He had to be modprodded to make his first post, and unfortunately, it looks like business as usual for Carlington and we’re going to need a modprod to get post #3.
BoomFrog wrote: In reguards to the mpolo scum chat thing, I think it is very possible that scum-mpolo didn't read his PM carefully and at that point scum hadn't used chat yet. So it's possible for mpolo to have genuinely not known mafia have chat and still be mafia. If mpolo is mafia that indicates the other mafia are more passive players, so plus townie points to SDK if mpolo is mafia. :roll:

Is this serious? mpolo made this mistake in his third post and by that time everyone had posted except Carlington (BoomFrog had one post and FrozenFlame two posts so these three would be the most passive players at that point).
I mistook Carlington for newbie town, and it seemed like an excellent first post for a newbie. In light of GoP's info I will have to reevaluate him.

The thing about mpolo is sincerer, maybe you haven't been mafia for a long time, but I've often found my mafia-mates to be very passive if I don't coordinate them. Btw, I consider everyone to be a passive player except you, me, SDK, and possibly plytho. Plytho would have started asking questions in mafia chat right away, you would have asked the mafia to make a plan, and SDK or I would have outlined a plan for the mafia. Everyone else would very possibly be quite on mafia chat until the game really started rolling.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby mpolo » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:49 am UTC

BoomFrog has produced a couple of meatier posts, but as bessie and GoP mention, many of the ideas are a little "off" with respect to the general consensus here. I fear that he is homing in on me as an easy target, since I had a fairly lean first few days of posting.

Carlington is being Carlington, which inevitably means that I'll decide that he's scum before the end of the game. I have this gut feeling that he has been more than his share of scum, especially in recent games, though, so appealing to popular probability (as opposed to mathematical probability), one would hope that his streak is over and he is really town this time.

Bessie is feeling pretty solid after the last few posts, despite a few Yoda statements to make us doubt her.

Dimochka is not off the hook, and I don't object to that lynch train. I'm not going to change my vote so as not to end the day early, though.

Jimbob is feeling a little better, but I am wary because of the early part of the day.

If I have chat, I'm usually the one to set up the chat thread. Since I got to the whole thing pretty late, it should be clear that *something* would have appeared in chat by the time I posted what I did. (Don't know if our mod is one to set up the chat thread himself.)
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:23 am UTC

Deadline is in little more than a day. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
dimochka - 6 (SDK, #HBC | Zyth, LaserGuy, jimbobmacdoodle, #HBC | YOLOSWAG, BoomFrog)
jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (bessie, dimochka)
BoomFrog - 1 (mpolo)

Not voting: Carlington, FrozenFlame, Gopher of Pern, plytho

Tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby dimochka » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:24 pm UTC

apologies. I meant to post yesterday but fell asleep. re-reading now so should have another post soon. i strongly suggest you guys consider what you'll be doing on D2 once I come up town (obviously wine but still). A couple of things before I get to my re-read:
1. if i was jester i would've hammered myself.
2. I'm unsure on claiming. On one hand I can claim my role - a pretty standard role that has a good chance of being in game, but on the other hand claiming might help scum narrow down some of the other roles before the reveal on D2. thoughts?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:30 pm UTC

You should claim.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:33 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:bessie: I find her a bit odd, similar to jimbob. She pokes at people for particular wording, at then make a point about RVS being over. Dictacting what other peoples votes and such are just rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't think that bessie is playing like she usually does.
I don’t understand this part about RVS/voting. SDK made a serious vote on page 1, BoomFrog confirmed his vote on page 2 was serious, dimochka made a joke vote after BoomFrog but removed it, and jimbob made a decision not to remove his joke vote, so I pointed out that under the circumstances it should be considered a serious vote.

Carlington, the impression I get from your list is that every one of your reads is “here’s my read, however, here’s my out.” Like I was trying to explain in my poorly worded post here, there’s a difference between “fair and balanced” and “playing it safe”. If you do indeed have solid opinions on everyone perhaps a town-scum list would clarify your positions.

Here’s my list, this was a tough one. I may shift it around depending on today’s content, and I’ll try to give some reasons later.

bessie
plytho
#HBC Zyth
LaserGuy
BoomFrog
#HBC YOLOSWAG
Gopher of Pern
mpolo
SDK
FrozenFlame
Carlington
dimochka
jimbobmacdoodle

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:41 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I mistook Carlington for newbie town, and it seemed like an excellent first post for a newbie. In light of GoP's info I will have to reevaluate him.


I'm confused about how you could make this mistake in the first place. Plenty of people have been talking about Carlington's play prior to this point.

bessie wrote:Hmm, you think a serial killer is likely, but we shouldn’t worry about it? I harassed Carlington a lot in Diablo for downplaying the threat of a serial killer. And he was the serial killer. That reminds me…

LaserGuy wrote:There's only three players who played in the Pokemon game who are also in this game aside from him (jimbob, mpolo and Carlington), and several new players, either to the boards, or to the game itself, who would almost certainly not catch this reference. Making a joke that's almost certain to be seen as WIFOM to half the players in the game is really bizarre.

HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:At the moment, I think it's likely we have at least one scum between jimbob and dimochka. I DO find it interesting that a lot of people (bessie, mpolo, Carlington come to mind) have mentioned a gut feeling about jimbob but there hasn't been much of a substantiated push against him. I don't know what to make of that atm, but it's worth mentioning.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Carlington: I've gotten used to him showing up late to the party - he's done it in both his last couple of games at least (scum in both by the way). He enters with a solid enough post, with plenty of early, thought out opinions, but he could do with some more conclusions on most players. Leaning slightly town, but needs more to firm up that opinion

mpolo wrote:6. Carlington - A few posts (as usual), but high content per post. Still fairly neutral, though.


Carlington wrote:sdk "didn't feel like it". classic sdk answer. not a fan any more than usual but the guy gets results so w/e

Carlington wrote:dimochka: Has been the focus of a lot of attention this day. He didn't add a 5th RV to LaserGuy but he also hung a lampshade on that fact. His setup spec relies on mod-mind-reading, which is an interesting tack to have taken. I don't know what it was in his role PM that reminded him of the PGO from PYPoke, and certainly I didn't get the joke despite having been there. There's some stuff which I am a little pinged by, some backpedaling and some agreeing with other people's scummy reads on him.

BoomFrog: He is a player I consider old guard, as I believe he both started and left playing here before I started. I don't have a good sense of his meta, but he seems to be a super super serious kind of operator, so I'll be sure never to take anything he says at anything other than face value. I would like to see him using that mafia mastery he talked about to do some scumhunting or to drum up some stellar reads, though.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby FrozenFlame » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:01 pm UTC

Man I'm a bad apple neglecting this game all weekend. Bit surprised to see I'm not getting more flack for it, but I'm gonna take that as this community just being a generally forgiving and tolerant place when it comes to activity. I have kind of a bad rep for being lurky so it's refreshing to be given the benefit of the doubt, which I appreciate, though I'll admit that my activity has been abyssal thus far given the fact that deadline fast approaches.

With that said, here's my general assessment thus far:

Town:

Yoloswag - really the only player in this game I can get a meta read on considering he's the only player here I've ever played with before (unless Zyth goes by a different screen name on smashboards, in which case please forgive my ignorance), and on meta alone he's playing true to town form. I feel genuine scum hunting vibes from his posts and like the fact that he's grouping me in with his scum reads. Oftentimes I can get easy reads on players in communities that I have a reputation in when they give me too much deference or generally shy away from calling me out due to fear of retaliation. It's been my experience that sometimes I can act a little scummy/lurky, see who hesitates to call me on it, and then suss out who was fearful of drawing my attention and ire in order to uncover scared scummies. Now, Yoloswag certainly isn't the type of scum player that I'd expect to shy away from attacking me, so ultimately him not holding back and grouping me in his scum reads doesn't exonerate him, but it shows me he's getting down to business in this game and isn't going to just give me homie cred for free. This distrust coming from him is a good sign IMO.

SDK - My read here is almost certainly colored by the fact that I love to have an "urchin" or two in every mafia game I play. You know, the type of player that is deliberately uncooperative and antagonistic, sticks to his guns, doesn't go out of his way to explain and/or justify his every move, etc. (a la BabyJesus for vets of MafiaScum) I think it adds a distinct flavor to the game that keeps the game from feeling overly mushy. Always love to see a player who isn't afraid to frustrate other players, which always opens one up to attack. Baiting scum to attack you for bad reasons is always a strong scumhunting tactic and though I'm not sure if that's SDK's MO here, I'm liking his no nonsense approach. Bonus points for the unambigiuous demand that dimochka claim in the face of a lynch. (A demand for what I agree is the obvious choice)

Bessie - Perhaps I'm being played by her overly bubbly, accommodating, non-antagonistic style. I probably am, but I'm confident I'll be able to shake the wool off before late game if we both make it that far. She's not afraid to put her thoughts out there even if they aren't the most analytical or earth shattering observations. Her affability is making me feel like she's particularly transparent, but again maybe I'm falling victim to a ruse of naive innocence. I guess I just don't see a scum player with her personality putting herself out there so much while under virtually no pressure to do so. I'd expect more reserved play from a player of her presented personality if she were scum, just as a general tactic to reduce exposure and avoid the spotlight.

Town Leans:

Boomfrog - Nothing has seriously pinged my scumdar from him but he comes off as experienced and savvy enough that I ought not rely too much on instinct when reading him. In particular I don't believe scumfrog would have bothered to make this post:
BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:Some people have been reading me as newbie (town). Can you say what makes me seem newbish? Am I making some basic mistakes?
Quite the opposite, it's your enthusiasm that reveals that you are new to the game. Newbie town are extremely helpful and transparent, newbie scum have difficulty pretending to be that because of their lack of experience. Therefore newbies are the easiest to read.


On the other hand, his overly congratulatory assessment of Carlington's opening post is a bit disconcerting. Basically gives Carlington a ringing endorsement with no explanation which seems strange to me given the fact that he (boomfrog) basically bent over backwards explaining to us his whole "I lied deliberately to create lynch train parity and bait opportunists into trying to be opportunists" gambit. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea behind this move of his, it just seems to me that going through all that, being all transparent about it, and then coming down with such a hard town read on someone sans reasoning isn't exactly concomitant behavior.

HBC Zyth - again, no bad scumdar pings from him. Has had meaningful and seemingly genuine engagement with the material available. Mostly a gut read here tbqh. @ Zyth, do you go by a different screen name on smashboards btw? Have we ever played in a game together before?

Neutrals:

Carlington - not sure what to make of his opening post. A whole lot of fluffy fanfare and what seems to be a synopsis of what each player has done/how he characterizes each player without much if any assessment of each player's actual play so far. Comes off as a lot of hot air but maybe that's just how he starts games? I find it interesting that Gopher of Pern has pointed out that this type of activity is reminiscent of past games where Carlington was scum. Not sure if we have the time to unpack that this late in the phase but I'm hoping GoP elaborates on this if his meta read pings again.

This also comes off as overly accommodating:
Carlington wrote:Wait, bessie, is your ongoing issue with my reads just that I don't put some exact label on every player? Because like, I feel that the tone I write each player's read with and the things I like for them are enough to convey my thoughts on each player, is that not the case? I guess it's more obvious to me because I'm in my head when nobody else is, I'll try to communicate more clearly.


Not sure if that's because he's feeling pressure from even the smallest of critiques, or if he's genuinely surprised that his message wasn't clear. So yeah very unsure of my read here.

Plytho - Comes off a bit shady for some reason but generally unobjectionable content thus far. Definitely liked his presentation of this meta knowledge related argument:
plytho wrote:Mpolo: "forgot" that mafia can coördinate during the day. @regulars: would scum!mpolo post stuff like that to mislead town? I don’t have much of a read on him. Neutral for now.


Comes off as genuine scumhunting. Rest of that post had the same feel. Really struggling here on whether his decent content outweighs his seemingly minimalist approach.

Taking a break for lunch now but I will try to get back to this right after I eat (slow day at the office thankfully) and round out my reads list with the remaining neutrals and then my scum reads.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:16 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:[quote=BoomFrog"]I mistook Carlington for newbie town, and it seemed like an excellent first post for a newbie. In light of GoP's info I will have to reevaluate him.
I'm confused about how you could make this mistake in the first place. Plenty of people have been talking about Carlington's play prior to this point.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Carlington: I've gotten used to him showing up late to the party - he's done it in both his last couple of games at least (scum in both by the way). He enters with a solid enough post, with plenty of early, thought out opinions, but he could do with some more conclusions on most players. Leaning slightly town, but needs more to firm up that opinion
[/quote]Okay, I didn't think Carlington is a total newbie, it was clear that he'd played a few games already, but I thought he was newbie enough that he wouldn't be a good scum player yet. Although this quote you pulled from JimBob should have alerted me to that, so oops.

I understand you're not going to let this go, and from your perspective it is scummy that I didn't pay careful attention to every player. I guess I was just a little too excited about my shenanigans. Hopefully D2 I can demonstrate that my shenanigans have been helpful to town by forcing more connections to be made D1.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:47 pm UTC

Yes Frozen, I'm JeXs.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:46 pm UTC

I went back and actually read Carlington's first big post instead of just skimming it like I originally did. I have to admit I was pretty wrong, that post was full of discussion about everything except scum hunting. And from the quotes LaserGuy so kindly pulled out for me it seems like this is a typical pattern. @Carlington, if you aren't going to post a lot, focus on actual reads and don't waste time just summarizing other people's opinions of the setup.

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Vote jimbob

Something I meant to ask about but didn't because I was still in acting like a lurker mode: Yoloswag, what make you take your vote off domichka?
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

Phone posting. I probably won't have time to post anything meaningful before the deadline. I will be around though.

I'm fine with the dimochka lynch.

@BoomFrog: I wasn’t among the first to bring attention to you. You may have to revisit your analysis here.

@Frozenflame: what do you mean by minimalism?
he him his

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:38 pm UTC

@Boomfrog

There'd been a few votes on jimbob at the time. I didn't like the slot and wanted to see what would happen with another vote essentially tying him with dimochka. There'd been enough eyes and pressure on dimochka that a dogpile there while refusing to look elsewhere wouldn't be maximizing the information Town could get.

I've skimmed this morning. Ideally Frozen can finish his reads post and I'd like to see more from GoP/Carlington (I'm having difficulty getting a handle on them. I believe their "catching up" kind of playstyle is impacting this) but outside of that and a quick reread I'm okay with finishing off dimochka.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:35 pm UTC

(I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I believe everything in here is worthwhile posting. Please read carefully in the event of my death.)

To do:
- read page 3 again (and page 4 now)
- read jimbob
- recheck dimochka's big post
- post a full reads list before nightfall
- lynch scum

Lots going on, but nothing to question that I wouldn't rather leave for my player read throughs. We've got a lot of interaction this game. This has been a fantastic Day 1 for content.



So on to jimbob, specifically whether or not he was in damage-control mode... I don't see it. The only part of his play re: the serial killer thing that is concerning is his pushing attention away to others, but I read that more as testing you, bessie, than diverting attention away from himself. Your logic was inconsistent. In every single post that mentions this he's talking about other things, and specifically replying to your accusations that he is a serial killer, so I'm not sure what you're seeing here. You needled him a bit, but then jumped on him primarily because he thought you were implying he was a serial killer, but you never said that, right? If he'd made that leap himself I might agree that looks bad, but you did strongly imply it in this post:
bessie wrote:Hmm, you think a serial killer is likely, but we shouldn’t worry about it? I harassed Carlington a lot in Diablo for downplaying the threat of a serial killer. And he was the serial killer.
So... this is not a concern.

Otherwise...
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:dimochka: Reading his posts one-after-the-other without reading anybody else's has made my thinking about his defensiveness slip in a negative direction slightly. I think his 3rd on the wagon defence was probably unnecessary, given it was a joke FoS as far as I can tell. His comment here about his PGO statement:
dimochka wrote:FWIW this is in reference to the Pokemon game two months ago where I claimed PGO in my first D1 post. I was not PGO. and I was town. Does not mean anything regarding my role this game, but figured I'd explain.
is very weird when you realise that PyPokemon was 14 months ago, not two (and surely his memory would tell him that it wasn't that recent). I don't get why he felt that he too easily backed down from his first vote on me, since he was stating that his vote was not serious, and meta on these forums is to unvote random votes once serious votes start piling on (I don't have an issue with him actually backing down at all). I think this was what was [url="http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4186501#p4186501"]bothering me previously[/url] about that post. It wasn't that his explanation was flimsy, it was that it was completely unnecessary. FTR, I don't think there is an issue with his bessie and BoomFrog town reads stated in the same post, as long as he explains them later (which he did to some extent in his next post). Leaning scum.

Not sure about this explanation for jimbob's scummy read on dimochka. That's a big change from his last post on the subject where he said he didn't like my case. I'm not sure what jimbob could be getting out of this if he was scum though - why not vote the first time? Why the change of pace? The points he brings up are slightly different, but this actually looks more like a bus than anything, so worth taking another look after dimochka flips scum.

Besides that his play seems very solid for the most part. Good reasoning on people, asking questions and following up on meaningful tangents. I'm going to call him neutral for now and wait for dimochka's flip.



Next up: recheck dimochka? Okay. His big reads post got praise from several people, but I'm not a big fan. He comes to no solid conclusions and ends up voting someone (jimbob) which dimochka has listed as a neutral. He has no real scum reads, and only a couple of actual town reads. Some of his reasoning is... reasonable, but the reasoning for the jimbob vote is quite terrible. If dimochka flips scum, jimbob's wagon should be a great place to suss out the rest of the team.

PS: dimochka basically ducked and covered after that post, so, yeah, he's still scum.



Reads list, GO!

YOLOSWAG: I'm going to start here because I wanted to ask about something specific to dimochka. YOLOSWAG is scattershot, prodding many different people for many different reasons. Some is picking up on decent things, which seems to be more investigating-townie than nitpicking-scum. Others, not so much.
Major concern: his vote for jimbob feels very out of place. YOLOSWAG, you gave your reasoning for voting jimbob here, and I can definitely accept your interpretation. Is there anything else though? What about the rest of his content? More importantly, did you read dimochka's reasoning for voting jimbob before you followed him onto the wagon? Did you actually think you were following a good thing here?
He also discusses lynching for information, something that always sets me on edge. YOLOSWAG, I asked a question related to that, but haven't gotten a reply.
Overall, could be scum.


Zyth: I can see the townie mindset behind almost everything he's doing. Answers questions easily, and though he doesn't post a lot, what he picks on is solid. Probably town.


LaserGuy: I didn't like his approach to me at first regarding my early flippancy, but apparently I'm an abrasive, caustic, uncooperative, antagonistic jerk. Little townie things like this keep stacking up...
LaserGuy wrote:bessie - Has spent most of her time poking at jimbob about indies and SKs. Feels that we should in principle be able to pick out the difference between a loner anti-town indie and coordinating mafia, which seems reasonable to me. Only read is on jimbob, who she puts as anti-town. Mentions her townie curse meta for the benefit of the new players...

She's tunneling pretty hard on jimbob, which is consistent with her meta. She hasn't read anyone else yet at all, which isn't really, though she's mentioned some IRL issues. Would like to see some reads on other players. In particular, what's your opinion of dimochka? There's something else that's pinging me just a bit, but I'm going to have to go and reread some of her older games to see if it's worth mentioning. Making her as Neutral for now.
... and his reads have been consistent and consistently solid as far as I can tell (again, other than his read on me). Probably town.


mpolo: I think mpolo is probably telling the truth about the missed daychat thing, based in no small part on the fact that he's town. This read is based partly on meta, but mostly just the feeling I get reading his posts. There is no ulterior motive here, no agenda he's pushing towards. He's passive, maybe, but he's town.

plytho: Probably town, asking questions, reading stuff, etc etc. He's certainly paying attention, which can be difficult to do when scum, especially when you're new to the game and need to focus so much of your energy on acting. I haven't picked up on anything 100% townie to make this a sure thing, but it's solid.

bessie: bessie just feels like such a townie, but I don't think I've ever played a game where I was town as she was scum. When we were on a scum team together, I certainly noted that as a strength of hers. Anyway, this game she feels pretty natural in most things she's doing. She's here, getting dirty with the rest of us, and digging into the game well. The one big red flag for me is her interactions with jimbob. Tunneling early on is pretty common for bessie, but this time it feels different, and has from the beginning. Someone should have called her on her faulty logic earlier, but now that I found that quote of hers that tears down most of what she was attacking jimbob for, it just feels wrong. Bessie is thorough. Always. I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have found that herself.
Overall, neutral for now. We'll see what she says to this now that I've dug it up. Might be a good place to start Day 2 depending how things shake out.

BoomFrog: Lots to talk about, nothing to conclude. He was obviously playing around to start with, then made a vote for dimochka which I was obviously okay with. This post, though, was too wrong to be the truth. Whether he was lying or playing around, I wasn't sure, so I decided to let it lie for the moment, see who jumped which way before I attacked BoomFrog for it. Considering his pull back the curtain post mirrors my thoughts at the time, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to that gambit. It had potential, his story is plausible, he's carried on from there asking some decent questions and coming to some decent conclusions. The only thing stopping me from calling him probably town is his errors. He's not paying enough attention to the game, instead paying more attention to his tricks and his image. The self-centered nature of his play pushes him to "maybe scum".


Gopher of Pern:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I don't think that's very likely, but I do get the sense that mpolo is the type of player that may deliberately make that slip as scum, to throw off players. I was less sure of jimbob doing that deliberately.
Really? I guess I have a very different opinion of mpolo. You sticking to that despite his other content in thread?
Gopher of Pern wrote:Dimochka: Was initially very weird. Would make points, then back off them unnecessarily, I feel. Then a big analysis post, which seems ok on the surface, but ultimately doesn't say a lot. Then promises to answer questions later, but hasn't replied since. Having looked a bit closer, I can see why the wagon is hitched, and I can't say I blame them. I'd very possibly vote for them if they weren't at L-1.
I don't like this read. If dimochka flips town, I'm coming for you. Otherwise... I might still be coming for you, actually. Need more content. Your reads are partial. Maybe scum.



FrozenFlame: He's on dimochka early (at least, once you consider his vote for plytho an error), but from that one post I can't tell if he's actually being serious. Later he says he is, but that's when the wagon's at L-1, and the bit of buddying (with me) as a side-dish there makes me wonder if this is a bus. dimochka/YOLO/Frozen scumteam? Neutral pending further content.


Carlington: His first reads post felt townie, but is pretty typical of Carlington's play overall (I should actually go back and find a Carlington scum game). Not a huge amount of meat, but it's fine. This post, though, is much more concerning:
Carlington wrote:
bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:6. Carlington - So townie it hurts. Excellent into post, well done Carlington.
What was so spectacularly townie about Carlington’s post? His first post doesn’t have an unambiguous opinion on anyone, and his second post is mostly a noncommittal speculation about the setup and a concern that I’m tunneling on jimbob. He had to be modprodded to make his first post, and unfortunately, it looks like business as usual for Carlington and we’re going to need a modprod to get post #3.

Nah, this time I was just waiting to see whether anyone would react to what BoomFrog seems to be doing here. I'm going to put you as town for now, based on the combination of you having been the first person to speak up about what was, frankly, a weird read and the fact that you were so forthcoming in your opinion in doing so.
This was in reference to BoomFrog's big reveal. I can't think of a good reason for a townie to wait here. Scum, on the other hand, get the pulse of the thread and react accordingly. Maybe scum.
Carlington, any comment on why you wanted to wait? What were you waiting for?


jimbobmacdoodle: See above. Neutral.

dimochka: See above. Almost certainly scum.




tl;dr
-TOWN-
mpolo
plytho
#HBC | Zyth
LaserGuy
#HBC | YOLOSWAG

jimbobmacdoodle
FrozenFlame
bessie

BoomFrog
Carlington
Gopher of Pern
dimochka
-SCUM-

YOLOSWAG gets to be neutral now that I see my scum shortlist mirrors his own.
PEDIT: Actually, he can be probably town now that he's preemptively answered one of my questions to him.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:08 pm UTC

I'm sorry I haven't posted anything yet today. I had a busy day at work and a busier evening this evening. I will try to quickly read the thread in the morning on the way into work, shortly before deadline. If anybody wants me to respond to anything in particular, please say so.

Also, assuming I survive that long, and as fair warning, I will be extremely busy at the weekend, from Friday through to Monday mid-afternoon. I will likely get a bit of time to read, but no time to do long thought-out posts, I'm afraid. I will try to make up for it next Monday.

A few things that I feel worth commenting on from me: I feel slightly better about BoomFrog currently, but not much. I don't share SDK's concern with Carlington's delay to respond, given that it wasn't a particularly long delay, from what I recall (note - this may be false, but I don't have a chance to check). I'd like to see the rest of FrozenFlame's reads. What he has posted look reasonable so far, although I find it interesting that he has obviously already categorised all the players into town/neutral/scum, before writing out his reads on each, implying he's already made decisions on people before analysing their content in depth (@FrozenFlame, can you explain why you did it this way, please). LaserGuy might have gone a bit overboard with his demonstration of how wrong BoomFrog was.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:51 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'd like to see the rest of FrozenFlame's reads. What he has posted look reasonable so far, although I find it interesting that he has obviously already categorised all the players into town/neutral/scum, before writing out his reads on each, implying he's already made decisions on people before analysing their content in depth (@FrozenFlame, can you explain why you did it this way, please).

Nice catch, jimbob. I'm also interested in seeing an answer to this, FrozenFlame.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:36 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:LaserGuy might have gone a bit overboard with his demonstration of how wrong BoomFrog was.


The volume was the point. If it were just one or two casual/parenthetical references to Carlington's experience, I could imagine somebody missing that in such a large thread. I'm much more skeptical that someone could accidentally miss eight or ten such references, including ones in posts that they've obviously read in detail and/or responded to directly.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:54 pm UTC

Good read SDK, I agree with most, and I'll have to rethink my opinion of mpolo. I disagree about Bessie, but maybe I haven't seen the magnificence of scum Bessie. In the game where you were scum together, how long did she last and did scum win? Also, btw, can you confirm if you were town in our first game together? I recall that you were but it'd be good to know for sure where your baseline is.

Strong support for GoP as probable scum, and Carlington out of process of elimination and the thing about not pointing out my bad read on him. I wish I could claim it was another gambit, but it was just me being sloppy. Doing rereads and careful analysis takes up too much time in RL so the reality is that I either can't play mafia or I can play sloppy. I'll work on keeping better notes in the future though. (And I can confirm this statement after game when it's not wine.) But you have to admit it did generate content. :D
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:57 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@BoomFrog: I wasn’t among the first to bring attention to you. You may have to revisit your analysis here.

Bleh...

No time to dig that back out. If someone does see during a reread who that was I'd appreciate a link to the post of the first person to attack me for my baseless switch of my vote to JimBob.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby SDK » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:03 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:In the game where you were scum together, how long did she last and did scum win?

Four person scum team, perfect scum victory. Smalltown PYP. :mrgreen:

BoomFrog wrote:Also, btw, can you confirm if you were town in our first game together? I recall that you were but it'd be good to know for sure where your baseline is.

Seaside Mafia? Yes, I was town, something you flip-flopped on quite a bit if I recall correctly. Though I did enjoy this quote from Day 2:
Spoiler:
BoomFrog wrote:If you're scum this game I agree to concede you victory right now.
That was a good game. Fun intro to the forum for me.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:15 am UTC

SDK wrote:Gopher of Pern:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I don't think that's very likely, but I do get the sense that mpolo is the type of player that may deliberately make that slip as scum, to throw off players. I was less sure of jimbob doing that deliberately.
Really? I guess I have a very different opinion of mpolo. You sticking to that despite his other content in thread?
Gopher of Pern wrote:Dimochka: Was initially very weird. Would make points, then back off them unnecessarily, I feel. Then a big analysis post, which seems ok on the surface, but ultimately doesn't say a lot. Then promises to answer questions later, but hasn't replied since. Having looked a bit closer, I can see why the wagon is hitched, and I can't say I blame them. I'd very possibly vote for them if they weren't at L-1.
I don't like this read. If dimochka flips town, I'm coming for you. Otherwise... I might still be coming for you, actually. Need more content. Your reads are partial. Maybe scum.



I said that I could see mpolo doing that, not that I think he is doing that. The other evidence against mpolo doesn't really read that way.

What is wrong with my analysis on dimochka? Why are you coming after me, and none of the other people who are voting for dimochka?

BoomFrog wrote:Good read SDK, I agree with most, and I'll have to rethink my opinion of mpolo. I disagree about Bessie, but maybe I haven't seen the magnificence of scum Bessie. In the game where you were scum together, how long did she last and did scum win? Also, btw, can you confirm if you were town in our first game together? I recall that you were but it'd be good to know for sure where your baseline is.

Strong support for GoP as probable scum, and Carlington out of process of elimination and the thing about not pointing out my bad read on him. I wish I could claim it was another gambit, but it was just me being sloppy. Doing rereads and careful analysis takes up too much time in RL so the reality is that I either can't play mafia or I can play sloppy. I'll work on keeping better notes in the future though. (And I can confirm this statement after game when it's not wine.) But you have to admit it did generate content. :D


Buddying much?

SDK wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'd like to see the rest of FrozenFlame's reads. What he has posted look reasonable so far, although I find it interesting that he has obviously already categorised all the players into town/neutral/scum, before writing out his reads on each, implying he's already made decisions on people before analysing their content in depth (@FrozenFlame, can you explain why you did it this way, please).

Nice catch, jimbob. I'm also interested in seeing an answer to this, FrozenFlame.


There are plenty of innocent explanations for this, why do you think this point in particular is important?

Vote: YOLOSWAG

Aside from dimochka, they are my biggest scum read.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:45 am UTC

I'm V/LA til Wednesday y'all.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Carlington » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:45 am UTC

Okay, so, just as an exercise in making my prior reads perfectly explicit, I've quoted my last reads post under this spoiler. I'm going to append my explicit read to each player in bold, and underline the part of the original quote that I thought conveyed my read. I'm doing this because I am actually genuinely surprised that I'm not communicating clearly (this sudden realisation that I don't communicate as well as I think I do is becoming a theme in my life overall lately)
Spoiler:
Carlington wrote:
GoP: Rusty flavour knowledge. Speculates on an SK Made an IT reference, which may have been an attempt at demonstrating flavour knowledge. Setup spec is 8/3/1/1 - all power town, one neutral and one anti indie. There's not really anything since that I think, although RL justification was given for this. I don't know what to think yet, I could take a couple of things in a lot of different directions here which I think is a sign to hold off on taking anything anywhere. Neutral/No read

Zyth: He thinks 8/3/1/1 with an SK seems unlikely, and I agree, as it does seem to have a lot of potential for town to lose early. He seems very happy to take a relative backseat and gather data then provide reads. I don't like that his town read on SDK comes from them agreeing. I am a fan of "Disagreeing doesn't make you scum" and vice-versa. Some of his reads seem legit, but I don't get strong town vibes. Neutral/slight town

YOLOSWAG: His main contribution appears to be two random votes. He asked about meta for 3rd party roles here. I'd like to see more before passing judgement, and if you put a gun to my head now I'd have to put him on the scum side of the line for active-lurky behaviour. Neutral/slight scum

plytho: I feel as though he is probably town. He doesn't seem to be on the same page as jimbob about how to gain information from a random vote, but I think both he and jimbob have meritorious arguments here. He does seem to understand where jimbob's initial vote comes from, and my (rapidly fading) perception that he may have a lack of understanding here is the reason for my newbie feels on him. Town

FrozenFlame: He has pretty strong feelings on setups and the balance thereof, but they may not be of much use in a new meta-context. He did make observations I thought astute regarding the frequency of killing indies, but pushed it a little hard. For D1, if it weren't for the differences in meta, I'd be willing to think this was downplaying 3rd party kills. I was a little confused as well by his calling OMGUS on dimochka but voting plytho. I don't know his meta to get a feeling for if this is typical, so based on his play my read is "could you explain some things, please?" Possible scum

SDK: I value his contributions in terms of asking questions and throwing his weight around to get reactions, it really does help to generate content. That seems like fairly towny, behaviour, and fits my picture of his meta. Of course, SDK is a good enough player to do the same thing as scum, so I can't really offer more than a gut feeling that it's towny this time. Town

dimochka: Has been the focus of a lot of attention this day. He didn't add a 5th RV to LaserGuy but he also hung a lampshade on that fact. His setup spec relies on mod-mind-reading, which is an interesting tack to have taken. I don't know what it was in his role PM that reminded him of the PGO from PYPoke, and certainly I didn't get the joke despite having been there. There's some stuff which I am a little pinged by, some backpedaling and some agreeing with other people's scummy reads on him. Scum lean

bessie: She is a little time-poor at the moment, but I am worried she's tunneling in too hard on this jimbob thing about SKs. Typically she will treat all the players to some scrutiny before zeroing in, so going straight to one player is uncharacteristic, imo. Still, I'm willing to give it a little time. Neutral/need more data

jimbob: His setup spec differs from others, he thinks 9/4 is likely and SK not in his first post, but later revises this to SK is more likely than not. While poking players for a response does check out as town/jimbob behaviour, I agree with mpolo's gut feeling that something feels off. With that said, I don't truly know whether I agree of my own accord or am being influenced by mpolo here. I think he's definitely worth keeping an eye on, but I'm not about to go in for all the beans with a vote on him. Neutral/slight scum

mpolo: His thoughts on the meta here surrounding indie roles mesh with my experience and are useful for the new players, but he hasn't yet given much in the way of content specific to this game. Neutral

LaserGuy: I think he has more votes than posts! I also think I am more perturbed by the wagon on him than he is himself. He has pushed a couple of players here and there, which I do like. It's definitely worthwhile to push players on what they say, just to see whether you can get a peek into what lies behind the words. Town lean (I'll grant that this one was more in the tone than anything I actually said)

BoomFrog: He is a player I consider old guard, as I believe he both started and left playing here before I started. I don't have a good sense of his meta, but he seems to be a super super serious kind of operator, so I'll be sure never to take anything he says at anything other than face value. I would like to see him using that mafia mastery he talked about to do some scumhunting or to drum up some stellar reads, though. Neutral/Need more data


Now, I'm not going to take it any further with that, because the game has progressed and my time can be better spent on newer information.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Miscellaneous comments and thoughts based on the content since my last post:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:This post rubbed me the wrong way because there's a lot of "however, but" in these reads. It reminds me of scum being very choosy with his words and avoiding linking himself to anyone. Also, he said these are his first thoughts on a skim read. So that means that one of the first things he feels the town should know is that mpolo is null due to playing to his meta? I don't mean that in some kind of mocking way, I just find it hard to believe that that thought would be one of the first things he wants to share as town.
I'm not sure I agree with the first part of this statement. Surely showing good and bad things about players is a way of making sure the viewpoint is balanced and fair?

@jimbob, why did you decide to defend GoP here?

SDK wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'd like to see the rest of FrozenFlame's reads. What he has posted look reasonable so far, although I find it interesting that he has obviously already categorised all the players into town/neutral/scum, before writing out his reads on each, implying he's already made decisions on people before analysing their content in depth (@FrozenFlame, can you explain why you did it this way, please).

Nice catch, jimbob. I'm also interested in seeing an answer to this, FrozenFlame.

I third this, actually. I don't see how the categories can have been established without all of the reads bring written.

SDK wrote:
Carlington, any comment on why you wanted to wait? What were you waiting for?
I actually don't buy that this was a mistake from BoomFrog, especially given how quick he was to about face when given the slightest pressure. I feel like it was an attempt at buddying to see if it'd work, but the tide swung way hard against him when he tried it so now he's gotta backpedal. BoomFrog is a good player.
However, at the time I thought that it was another gambit. Coming in the same post as his "pulling back the curtain" thing, I thought it was him doing the exact same thing. Only this time, he hung a wine-soaked lampshade off of it to see if the reaction would be any different. Thus, I wanted to wait before I called him on it - if I call him on it, he doesn't really gain any info (he has to have some read of me already to pull a gambit like that using me), and I don't gain any info (I obviously don't need to get a read on myself).

I think jimbob and GoP could be co-aligned.
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby bessie » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:47 am UTC

dimochka wrote:apologies. I meant to post yesterday but fell asleep. re-reading now so should have another post soon. i strongly suggest you guys consider what you'll be doing on D2 once I come up town (obviously wine but still). A couple of things before I get to my re-read:
1. if i was jester i would've hammered myself.
2. I'm unsure on claiming. On one hand I can claim my role - a pretty standard role that has a good chance of being in game, but on the other hand claiming might help scum narrow down some of the other roles before the reveal on D2. thoughts?
OK, dimochka knows is going to be lynched. He has not returned to claim or to offer any final thoughts to help us out tomorrow if he is town. So assuming he’s scum, why didn’t he hammer after BoomFrog voted, and end discussion at least a day early? I will be thinking about the following if dimochka flips scum.
1. The mafia leader wasn’t on line over the weekend to submit the kill, or one of the mafia members wasn’t on line over the weekend to submit their night action.
2. One of them was lurking and they needed that member to post, or one of them was looking really scummy, and they wanted the day to try to post some townie content.
3. There’s something else they wanted to post today.

FrozenFlame wrote:Bessie - Perhaps I'm being played by her overly bubbly, accommodating, non-antagonistic style. I probably am, but I'm confident I'll be able to shake the wool off before late game if we both make it that far. She's not afraid to put her thoughts out there even if they aren't the most analytical or earth shattering observations. Her affability is making me feel like she's particularly transparent, but again maybe I'm falling victim to a ruse of naive innocence. I guess I just don't see a scum player with her personality putting herself out there so much while under virtually no pressure to do so. I'd expect more reserved play from a player of her presented personality if she were scum, just as a general tactic to reduce exposure and avoid the spotlight.
Um, I have no response to this that’s not WIFOM. Maybe we’ll talk more tomorrow. I really like your reads, but I’m a bit disappointed that you probably won’t get time to finish them, and a bit suspicious that you started with your town reads. At the very least, can you please post your town-scum list before the end of D1? You imply that you’ve already grouped everyone.

SDK wrote:So on to jimbob, specifically whether or not he was in damage-control mode... I don't see it. The only part of his play re: the serial killer thing that is concerning is his pushing attention away to others, but I read that more as testing you, bessie, than diverting attention away from himself. Your logic was inconsistent. In every single post that mentions this he's talking about other things, and specifically replying to your accusations that he is a serial killer, so I'm not sure what you're seeing here. You needled him a bit, but then jumped on him primarily because he thought you were implying he was a serial killer, but you never said that, right? If he'd made that leap himself I might agree that looks bad, but you did strongly imply it in this post:
bessie wrote:Hmm, you think a serial killer is likely, but we shouldn’t worry about it? I harassed Carlington a lot in Diablo for downplaying the threat of a serial killer. And he was the serial killer.
So... this is not a concern.
What inconsistent logic? I implied I was suspicious of jimbob, and did not call him a serial killer because I wanted to see if jimbob’s guilty conscience automatically made the jimbob=serial killer connection. And it was a nice transition into needling Carlington for lurking, which Carlington does when he’s scum.
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:bessie, you seem to think I'm a Serial Killer because I am downplaying the likelihood right? What is your opinion on Zyth, who made this comment implying they thought an SK unlikely, I think:
With the numbers of 8/3/1/1, why is it likely that there is an SK in this game? In the worst case scenario: a mislynch and mafia and SK both kill a member of town, we are in mylo on Day 2, that's pretty crazy.
How about FrozenFlame with his comments made about it? Or most recently mpolo?
I never said you were a serial killer. Why did you make that link? The jimbob-serial killer link?
Continued needling by me because it was producing a result, mainly the quoted very defensive and somewhat scummy post. And for the record, I never thought he was a serial killer, I thought he was mafia.

SDK wrote: If dimochka flips scum, jimbob's wagon should be a great place to suss out the rest of the team.
Bookmarking for tomorrow.

SDK wrote:bessie: bessie just feels like such a townie, but I don't think I've ever played a game where I was town as she was scum. When we were on a scum team together, I certainly noted that as a strength of hers. Anyway, this game she feels pretty natural in most things she's doing. She's here, getting dirty with the rest of us, and digging into the game well. The one big red flag for me is her interactions with jimbob. Tunneling early on is pretty common for bessie, but this time it feels different, and has from the beginning. Someone should have called her on her faulty logic earlier, but now that I found that quote of hers that tears down most of what she was attacking jimbob for, it just feels wrong. Bessie is thorough. Always. I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have found that herself.
Overall, neutral for now. We'll see what she says to this now that I've dug it up. Might be a good place to start Day 2 depending how things shake out.
Re the faulty logic, we are talking about the thing I just covered, right?

SDK wrote:Carlington: His first reads post felt townie, but is pretty typical of Carlington's play overall (I should actually go back and find a Carlington scum game).
Here’s the most recent.
Diablo Mafia, serial killer
Wheel of Time 2, mafia
Monstrous Masquerade Mafia II, town
Secret Santa 2015, mafia

SDK wrote: I can't think of a good reason for a townie to wait here. Scum, on the other hand, get the pulse of the thread and react accordingly. Maybe scum.
Carlington, any comment on why you wanted to wait? What were you waiting for?
Because Carlington only posts when he’s prodded? Maybe he was actually responding to this:
bessie wrote:He had to be modprodded to make his first post, and unfortunately, it looks like business as usual for Carlington and we’re going to need a modprod to get post #3.


jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I don't share SDK's concern with Carlington's delay to respond, given that it wasn't a particularly long delay, from what I recall (note - this may be false, but I don't have a chance to check). I'd like to see the rest of FrozenFlame's reads. What he has posted look reasonable so far, although I find it interesting that he has obviously already categorised all the players into town/neutral/scum, before writing out his reads on each, implying he's already made decisions on people before analysing their content in depth (@FrozenFlame, can you explain why you did it this way, please).
Don’t agree on Carlington, do agree on FrozenFlame.

BoomFrog wrote: I disagree about Bessie, but maybe I haven't seen the magnificence of scum Bessie. In the game where you were scum together, how long did she last and did scum win?
SDK wrote:Four person scum team, perfect scum victory. Smalltown PYP. :mrgreen:
Yes, an excellent example of my magnificence! Be sure to read through to the end, where SDK posted the scum chat log (nightless, Misnomer estimated about 300 messages in scum chat!). I was so brilliant that I even fooled my very clever and experienced teammates, SDK, Madge, and Lawrencelot, into believing I was newbie scum. They thought that they were coaching me, giving me advice, but I was really the one controlling that game. Me me me!

More later, ninja'd by Carlington! :D

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:53 am UTC

Afternoon ended up being busier than I thought so this is coming way behind schedule, but here's the rest of my thoughts.

Gopher of Pern - Truest neutral read. Have absolutely no idea. Going to have to wait to read more content from him because what he's posted so far has gotten me no where. Not even trying to say that his content is useless but for me personally just nothing jumps out at me so I'm really struggling to make any read.

Jimbobmacdoodle - My read on jimbob is kind of born of the curiousity I have for jimbob and LaserGuy's early exchanges this game. Ever since LaserGuy wagon reached four, LaserGuy has been sort of picking a fight with jimbob. It's nothing explosive, but Laser throws these little jabs at jimbob.

LaserGuy wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Hi everyone! Four votes on D1? I didn't realize I was so intimidating.

YOLOSWAG, SDK, FrozenFlame, why did you decide to vote for me? jimbob, IGMEOY for keeping your joke vote on me after a wagon formed around it.


*Shrug*. I was interested to see how you reacted before removing my vote after others piled on. If you'd been at L-1, it might have been a different matter, but at L-3 votes, why are you bothered by me leaving my vote on?


You didn't seem the least bit interested or curious about the fact that a four-person wagon formed around your random vote almost instantly, despite the fact that isn't the usual meta for these boards. I'm still trying to decide what to make of your subsequent reaction. You *shrug*, but then go on to defend the entire wagon unprompted, which seems like a bit of an overreaction. Now, you've read my reaction, yet your vote is still there.


LaserGuy wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Laserguy, what are your reads on SDK and jumbob?


SDK is probably town. jimbob is leaning scum.


Basically I see this little back and forth where LaserGuy is coming at jimbob and jimbob kind of shrugs off his offensives. I don't take this interaction as being forced, jimbob is too unfazed to be doing a role play here. Their interactions just come off as TvS, though I'm much more confident that its not SvS than I am about ruling out TvT. I find it a bit peculiar though that Laser has parked on dimochka so solidly with no real showing of true interest to hop onto jimbob now that he has a couple votes. Makes me think Laser is settling here for the dimochka lynch, where it's because he felt compelled to get on the bus early and stick too it to sell it, or because he's not trying to rock the boat too hard and pick up an easy mislynch.

So yeah this jimbob neutral read should probably be classified as a neutral-slight-town read, but again, that's only because its the product of my scummy read on Laserguy and my view of their interactions as feeling TvS. So naturally I should follow this up with...

LaserGuy - leaning scum. He just seems too on edge, like he has a bone to pick, since the early game wagon. This read stems mostly from the tone of his prose. When I read his posts I get this feeling of slight indignation that gives his posts this oddly pushy feel. I mean like, to sum my feelings up, who the hell puts an "unofficial vote" on someone?

LaserGuy wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Any opinions of your own that you'd like to share BoomFrog? Feels scummy to me.

@LaserGuy why did you ignore the fact that I was the very first person to raise attention to dimochka's scumminess and unoffically the first vote on him?


You weren't. SDK placed a serious vote on him before your "unofficial" vote. I had also previously put IGMEOY on dimochka for his early wine comment. Regardless, simply pointing out scummy behavior in one player is not necessarily indicative of you being town, nor does it change the scumminess of your subsequent play. The fact that you've made a post pointing to this one line of content as defense of your play is honestly not helping your cause.

Consider this my unofficial vote on you.


It just seems like he's posturing a bit too much. Like he's trying to subtley establish some kind of dominance or authority over some players. Feels scummy to me frankly. He'd be my pick but for dimochka.

Mpolo - neutral slight leaning scum. Comes off as having this lack of agency and detachment from potential outcomes. Like this:
mpolo wrote:I honestly jumped into this without noticing the nightlessness. Bessie is then right, we might be able to detect some collusion, if we get lucky. I just got back from vacation, and should be posting more regularly, but i have a (stupid) computer problem to solve right now, so will have to wait, probably until tomorrow, for something more substantive.


What do you mean we might be able to detect collusion if we get lucky ? What does luck have to do with us being able to do this? Unless the scum aren't collaborating at all, surely there is always the possibility to pick up on tells and coordinated crafting of false reads. If collaboration is in fact occurring, whether or not we pick up on it and exploit it to quickly connect scum flips certainly won't be an exercise in luck. This comment makes me think mpolo has subconsciously, whether my virtue of being scum or whimsical town, minimized the importance and likelihood of "detecting collusion" in his mind. Seems to me like a subconscious desire to avoid meaningfully engaging with what it might mean to actively "detect collusion" or an actual apathy toward it being a potential tool for developing future reads. It's really just the "if we get lucky I guess that'd be cool" type attitude to me that comes off as evasive.

The conclusion of his big "reads" post only reinforced this non-committal, agencyless vibe:

mpolo wrote:I don't have any extremely scummy reads up to this point. I think the one I'm going to vote at the moment is:

Vote: BoomFrog


Look at that phrasing. Lots of hedging. "I think" and "at the moment" particularly. It's like there's no soul to this slot. Just feels like he's going through the motions and isn't invested in really scumhunting. Could be mistaking apathetic town here but it doesn't feel that way.

Dimochka - Likely scum. SDK rightly points out that people are likely bussing dimochka. The ease at which the wagon grew I found off putting, made me think all the scum had quickly bandwagonned an easy mislynch but when I considered the possibility that scum felt the growth was inevitable without their being any real wagon with true parity in attention, and thus decided to bus quickly to snag up whatever town cred they could salvage. Comfortable lynching dimochka today given all the attention on the wagon and resulting interactions that will provide great leads upon flip. Willing to hammer if that's the consensus, but want to here claim first. No sense in not claiming with deadline so close, unless you have a particular type of role that would provide the scum with particular strategic benefit knowing it was out of the game. Hopefully you can deduce what I'm getting at. Basically if your role is as weak as you claim it to be, it's better for town to know what it's allegedly lynching pre-night phase if we aren't going to get your flip immediately from the lynch.

Basically dimochka just rolled over too easily for any true townie. It really feels like dimchka just isn't putting up much of a fight so that the wagon just rolls along quietly, thus facilitating less debate over the wagon and allow his teammates to bus easily without too much exposure. It's like "leads triage." Don't put up a fight and make your partners REALLY have to justify their bussing of you. Just let everyone slide with easy reasons so as to minimize the number of meaningful connections that rigorous engagements evoke.

Like have you ever read more flatfooted defenses?

dimochka wrote:
SDK wrote:dimochka is probably scum, Take 1.

Sorry, nope. Town all the way. But poking the bear(s) on D1 is usually fun.
I do have to agree that, in retrospect, I backed off my last vote for no good reason and as such whatever I tried was a complete waste. However, I planned to post a serious note and got distracted by work.

I think bessie and boomfrog are town. Those are my main reads so far. But I'll have some opinion on everyone later today (or almost everyone, if carlington never posts).

dimochka wrote:Aah this is great. I'm so glad we have so much content on D1, and all focusing on me! Gives me a lot to work with.

First, I'm town. And not exactly an exciting role. I don't plan to claim because I'd rather me lynched than someone else with a stronger role, unless my fellow townies agree with my reads that I'm posting next. Sidenote: What I did looks like a great play for a jester, I'll try it next time!


This half hearted jokey resignation just feels off. "Its cool guys just lynch me, I'm not even that great of a role, no wait haha maybe I'm jester ;) ;)" is just so uninspiring. Like why actively play this WIFOMy whimsicalness about your survival as town? It's meant to play to your doubts and insecurity re: D1 read weakness an associated risk aversion. It doesn't present any affirmative evidence of townieness, but just tries to play to your sympathies by virtue signalling though offering to be a sacrificial lamb and then joking about how that offering could be a bait. It's a bizarrely passive yet subtly manipulative defense.

And lastly to address this:

SDK wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'd like to see the rest of FrozenFlame's reads. What he has posted look reasonable so far, although I find it interesting that he has obviously already categorised all the players into town/neutral/scum, before writing out his reads on each, implying he's already made decisions on people before analysing their content in depth (@FrozenFlame, can you explain why you did it this way, please).

Nice catch, jimbob. I'm also interested in seeing an answer to this, FrozenFlame.


The answer is simply that I had already organized my thoughts generally into who I felt was town/townleaning/neutral/scumleaning/scum and started writing the post from the easiest to explain cases to the ones that needed more time for me to sort out. My town reads I thought had pretty simple reasons, so I wrote those first and started from there. I gradually worked down the list until I hit my lunch break. I didn't have time to finish the whole list and needed more time to really articulate my scum leaning reads. Gopher was a holdover because I was so unsure of how I felt and needed to reread some of his posts. Tried and still came up with nothing. So yeah, basically I needed more time to flesh out my feelings on LaserGuy v. Jimbob, and then lay out my scum lean cases for mpolo and dimochka.

I'll be paying close attention to the thread tomorrow morning so I can answer questions people have before deadline. Also hoping for a dimochka claim. Please forgive lack of organization and what I'm guessing will be copious typos as I was rushing to get this up before it got too late.

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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Gopher of Pern » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:57 am UTC

Carlington wrote:I think jimbob and GoP could be co-aligned.


What do you mean by this? We could both be town? Both be scum?
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Carlington
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Carlington » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:59 am UTC

I think jimbob defending you was a bit weird so if one of you flips scum I'll squint harder at the other.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
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dimochka
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby dimochka » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:36 am UTC

My promised post regarding LaserGuy (since someone asked me). Hope it'll be helpful come D2.

Post 1: doesn't overreach to the multiple votes on him at D1. asks questions of voters. talks flavor.
Post 2: questions jimbob's lack of concern regarding the wagon he inadvertedly started. asking me about my jokes (yes, D1 has a lot of joking because there isn't actual content. and analyzing how people react to it is also helpful. I actually find your worries about my joking somewhat concerning, like you're trying to nitpick. At the time it seemed innocuous, but now I'm not so sure).
Post 3: reads. seem sincere, focuses on the three players he finds scummy (or he picked us in some other way?)
Post 4: just tells us who's what in his book - sdk town, jimbob scum
Post 5: reads on the others. looks like his other reads are based more on amount of content rather than quality (pretty much everyone on that list fits that, I think)
Post 6: reply to BoomFrog. BoomFrog still feels like town in my book, for lack of a better word he's too abrasive to be scum in this game (in my opinion).
Post 7: more analysis of a few people. I actually agree with that last statement that my lynch will clear things up more. With that being said, not lynching me is probably a risk for many others, especially since I believe that jimbob is scum.
Post 8. Attacks BoomFrog regarding his reading of Carlington as newbie. Brings up lots of examples, which make sense to me.
Post 9. Further reply to BF

So my read is still neutral leaning town. something feels off, though his reads are solid. I'd recommend for cops to consider checking him at night, as I think it'll either identify a well-hidden scum or provide a strong ally.

I really do think my lynch will reveal quite a bit at this point, and I apologize for my lacking participation. I had specific reasons for saying what I said and doing what I did, and I can explain some of them (or all but one) at the end of the game.

Does anyone whom I called townie want me to reveal my role before the day's end? Since I think SDK is more likely scum than town, I'd rather not say anything if he's the only one interested.

My other reads haven't changed btw.
If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

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BoomFrog
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:36 am UTC

Oh, oh! Your one of the few who called me townie. Yes, please claim. I can't imagine the advantage of not doing so. Also for the others, if domichka claims a role that you also have, don't say anything, if it came down to a conflict we would lynch domichka so no need to reveal extra info.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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BoomFrog
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:39 am UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:who the hell puts an "unofficial vote" on someone?
Yeah... who would do that? Only a domineering jerk, that's who. Very scummy.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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BoomFrog
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:48 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Good read SDK, I agree with most, and I'll have to rethink my opinion of mpolo. I disagree about Bessie, but maybe I haven't seen the magnificence of scum Bessie. In the game where you were scum together, how long did she last and did scum win? Also, btw, can you confirm if you were town in our first game together? I recall that you were but it'd be good to know for sure where your baseline is.

Strong support for GoP as probable scum, and Carlington out of process of elimination and the thing about not pointing out my bad read on him. I wish I could claim it was another gambit, but it was just me being sloppy. Doing rereads and careful analysis takes up too much time in RL so the reality is that I either can't play mafia or I can play sloppy. I'll work on keeping better notes in the future though. (And I can confirm this statement after game when it's not wine.) But you have to admit it did generate content. :D


Buddying much?
Really? Do you think I'm being scummy by agreeing with SDK's reads? This feels like you're throwing mud to see if you can keep my scummy rep on me. Or is this OMGUS?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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BoomFrog
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Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:54 am UTC

Carlington wrote:
SDK wrote:
Carlington, any comment on why you wanted to wait? What were you waiting for?
I actually don't buy that this was a mistake from BoomFrog, especially given how quick he was to about face when given the slightest pressure. I feel like it was an attempt at buddying to see if it'd work, but the tide swung way hard against him when he tried it so now he's gotta backpedal. BoomFrog is a good player.
If I was trying to buddy you it was an awful job of it. So it's established that I made a mistake either way. So did I make a townie mistake of skimming over your gigantic first post, or did I make a scummy mistake of a very ham-fisted attempt at buddying?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos


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