Trial of the Pariahs - Game Over

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Suzaku
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby Suzaku » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:30 pm UTC

Quick summary of claims and evidence:

matt96 - Magistrate, Communist. Appears to have been blocked by jimbob. Fits behaviour.

Carlington - Locksmith, Town. jimbob confirmed receiving lock, so locksmith confirmed. Not necessarily town.

Madge - Oracle, Messenger, Indy. Detail indicates truth. Messenger power confirmed.
*Note: The message I received specifically said 60 char, which I deliberately didn't mention. I conclude that Madge, who mentioned 60 char in her claim, is being truthful.

moody7277 - Absorber, Mason (to a zeroth approximation), Town. - I received a syringe of poison as promised. Vouched for as Mason by generalz. Received message and messenger power from Madge. Claims to have had PM ability removed today. Is either an Absorber who sent me the syringe, a fake inventor playing that role against dim's real inventor, or scum in league with the same.
@moody - maybe you missed this last time: Did you absorb any power from losing your PM ability?

adnapemit - Blob, Town. Plausible due to SirG's anti-scum role. Seemingly implicated by generalz/ Jack. Believes generalz is lying and scum, but doesn't seem (based on a very quick read through, I admit) to have an argument other than "I'm town so he must be scum" which isn't useful from our POV as we can't verify the premiss. Identified as scum by SirG.

JackHK - Sensor/Pope, Town. Claims have made sense, but thinking about it could have been faked quite easily. Slipping into analysis and reads here, rather than summary as planned, but does feel townie to me. Need to go back and see if there's evidence to back this up, or wherther a really good scum play is feasible. Claimed exactly one scum in {Carlington, adnapemit, Suzaku, moody7277}

dimochka - Inventor, Town. Claimed gift on N1 denied by Carlington. At the same time moody claimed to absorb fake inventor, but admits that it might not have been dim. Claimed would send GPS N2, which Jack claimed to receive. Unknown whether GPS fake or real. Identified as scum by SirG, as apparently needing to die for SirG's Usurper win.

generalz - Dreamer, Mason (to a zeroth approximation),Town. Received lists including 1+ scum: {Madge, SirGabriel, JackHK} and {Carlington, adnapemit, Madge}. SirG confirmed scum.

jimbobmacdoodle - Mediator, Town. Either roleblock or protect if not voting. Hasn't voted. Seems to have RB'd matt, leading to no arrest N2.

Role (not alignment) claims that I'm considering genuine at this point:
matt, Carlington, Madge, probably moody, Jack, maybe/partially dim, probably generalz, jimbob.

People who could plausibly be lying:
Carlington, if scum with Jack (possible).
adnapemit. No external evidence that I'm aware of.
dim. Would only have to omit the 'fake' bit to claim. No evidence (yet) that inventions work. Could, however be confirmed tonight.

Some simple prima facie conclusions:
If moody is scum so is generalz - modulo bastardry.
If generalz is scum so is moody - modulo bastardry.

I have some more, but I need to take a break. Comments, corrections, questions welcomed.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby moody7277 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:28 pm UTC

JackHK wrote:@moody, isn't your reasoning for adnapemit possibly being scum equally applicable to Carlington? He is also on two scum lists...


Carlington and jimbob had a successful interchange apparently, which looks good for them. This of course would also be the case if they were both a scum team, but that would imply that along with dim and SirG four scum aligned players in a 12 player game which I find ludicrous. This also puts a lot of weight on SirG's statements, but his revealed role as Usurper* makes his statements about dim more probable, and I find the possibility of scum-on-scum violence hilarious. dim and Carlington's lack of a successful transfer would also support that one of them is scum, modulo a redirector role. A couple of things may weigh in favor of redirection. First, we had several successful transfers today. This was done when matt was locked down from using abilities, as proven by the fact no one is jailed. matt's role as Communist may have redirection as a secondary power (Communist -> redistribution).

adnapemit's more recent turn since she was "outed" by SirG is also troubling to me. Summary of posts:

Spoiler:
D1
Post 1: Nervous of Madge, lie detector statement, RV for generalz
Post 2: unvotes, reads list with generalz and dimochka slightly scummy, SirG and Suzaku slightly townie, else neutral
Post 3: answers generalz on NL issue
Post 4: second reads post. moves ConMan to slightly scummy, otherwise same as before
Post 5: backs off opinion of dimochka, votes ConMan

Up to here, she's looking slightly townie

D2
Post 6: Commenting on some of the early day issues. Nothing that looks pingy, but she also doesn't drill down far on these.
Post 7: Concurs with SirG about me using the fake inventor power. Some alignment scenarios related to me, dim, SirG. Doesn't want to lynch JackHK because still suspicious of generalz, less info from that lynch than guessed by others
Post 8: did not arrest dim. answers generalz's concern over lack of depth

Amusing that generalz has the same concern over her post 6 that I did.

Post 9 & 10: reaction to SirG's partial claim, which was mostly tactical.

D3
Post 11 & 12: response to generalz explaining the reason usurper!SirG -> godfather!dim
Post 13: Claims blob and town.
Post 14: repeat claim and reads list. generalz most likely scum, followed by dim (only on her list indirectly) and Carlington iff generalz isn't scum
Post 15: hopes for third deathless night. throws up some doubt about SirG and my claims along with a backhanded defense of dim. generalz's lists source of her suspicions


Basically, what I get out of this is that she has been against generalz for a lot longer than I had originally thought, and even earlier than her claim in her last post (since mid-D1 not counting her RV). Her claim of blob is unprovable except in death since the effect of her role is by definition invisible. In conclusion, she'll make a good D4 lynch, but right now we have a bigger fish to fry.

Suzaku wrote:@moody - maybe you missed this last time: Did you absorb any power from losing your PM ability?


I gained the ability to cut off someone else's PM ability for D4 and N4.

Vote: dimochka

*Interestingly enough, we've had a game with a Usurper role in it, Djehutynakht's 2015 Halloween game. jimbob was Orlock who was trying to kill Dracula (SDK).
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:08 pm UTC

Deadline is in 4 days. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
dimochka - 2 (generalz, moody7277)
No Lynch - 1 (matt96)

Not voting: everyone else

Tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:42 pm UTC

I feel like I haven't contributed as much as I would like to this week. I'll try to post something substantial tomorrow or Saturday. Current thinking is that dimochka is the obvious lynch candidate, because of reasons already stated by myself and others.

In response to adnapemit's thinking - lynching Matt is guaranteed not to be a town lynch, and takes out somebody who can prevent a town's vote, so we don't really lose anything whilst getting a night to get more results, verify/disprove dimochka's claim etc.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby adnapemit » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:39 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:In response to adnapemit's thinking - lynching Matt is guaranteed not to be a town lynch, and takes out somebody who can prevent a town's vote, so we don't really lose anything whilst getting a night to get more results, verify/disprove dimochka's claim etc.

We would get the same gain as if we all voted no lynch and politely requested matt not to use his power(although using it against scum would be even better)
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby matt96 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:20 pm UTC

If you want, I could just target Madge ensuring that the Scum/Independent voting block Jimbob fears is smaller than town.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby dimochka » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:32 pm UTC

As I said I'm happy to be lynched, but I'm starting to think that it may not be as good of an idea.. for some reason yesterday as I was reading through the thread I managed to rationalize a 4-man scum team (normally I would 100% discount it, but with an usurper you have a team member trying to kill another team member, which means you really have a team of three at best). Or could there be some kind of scum supporter (aligned with scum but not in chat)? I'd love to hear some thoughts. Because I'm not scum, but if we still feel like lynching me is the best idea then that's perfectly fine, AS LONG as we have a plan for what happens once you see my flip.

I also think it would be nice to give matt his win at SOME point (not necessarily today) as long as it still allows us to win.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby Madge » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:50 am UTC

matt96 wrote:If you want, I could just target Madge ensuring that the Scum/Independent voting block Jimbob fears is smaller than town.


Can you not, please? The next few days are when I'm going to start needing to use my vote to get things the way I want them, since I'll have a guess submitted.

As a show of good faith I'll vote no-lynch today:

Vote: No Lynch

As I think it extremely likely that town will not jump on the NL bandwagon and instead do what they want anyway; and if they don't, then I've got no problem with a no lynch at the moment, so no big loss for me.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:52 am UTC

Right, I've got a bit of time before I get dragged out to spend time with the family, so here goes:

What do we know (yes I know this has been done before, but I'm trying to collect together my thoughts) -
matt96 - claimed magistrate communist. My roleblock looks to have stopped his arrest last night. Seems likely to be telling the truth based on behaviour.
Madge - Oracle, Messenger. Messenger claim backed up by her messages. Oracle seems likely, but not guaranteed, based on the amount of effort being put in.
Carlington - Locksmith. I received a lock, so it looks like he's telling the truth.
adnapemit - Blob. Unverifiable.
JackHK - Sensor/Pope - Claimed one scum in {Carlington, adnapemit, Suzaku, moody}. Claimed to prevent kill last night. Nothing else appears to have prevented the kill, unless Matt was the killer, so likely being truthful.
dimochka - Inventor. N1 gave gift to Carlington. N2 gave GPS to Jack. N1 target denied by Carlington, N2 target confirmed. Nobody else has claimed the N1 gift. GPS should be verifiable tonight, if Jack so chooses.
Suzaku - No claim. Confirmed receiving message from Madge. Confirmed receiving syringe from moody.
moody - Absorber, Mason with generalz. Claimed gained false inventor role N1. Gave syringe to Suzaku. Claimed gained messenger and PM blocker N2. Received message N2.
generalz - Dreamer, Mason with moody. 1 or more scum in {SirG, Madge, Jack} and {Carlington, adnapemit, madge}. SirG is confirmed from first list, so no further info to be gained from there.
jimbobmacdoodle - (for completeness) Mediator. Protected adnapemit N1, roleblocked Matt N2. Matt did not successfully use his N1 action. Not voted, so action can be used every night so far.

@Suzaku - do you have anything against claiming, or is it just an oversight? I believe you are the only person not to have claimed so far.

I'm going to try to logic this a bit and see what comes out. I'm going to assume three scum total, because 4 with two indies would put town at a big disadvantage, even with an anti-scum scum member.

First point of logic is moody/generalz. Ignoring extreme bastardry, moody is Town iff generalz is. scum!generalz could fake their results, so short of lynching all three on his second list, there's no way we can disprove it. More likely is being able to prove it via moody:
1) If moody is Town, dimochka is likely scum and the source of the false inventor (there could be a different false inventor out there, but it seems unlikely given the lack of other gifts).
2) If moody is scum, it is extremely likely that generalz is scum, and therefore dimochka is Town.
3) We can verify dimochka's scumminess by Jack using his GPS tonight on someone, assuming that the result will be "No Result". If he gets a genuine result, based on moody's response earlier I assume that an actual result would suggest dimocka is town or Jack is scum with dimochka.
4) Conclusion: lynching any one of generalz/moody/dimochka should all but prove all three's alignments. Alternatively, waiting one day before lynching one of them should prove dimochka's alignment, and therefore the other two.

Second point of logic is generalz's results:
1) If generalz is Town, one (or more) of {Carlington, adnapemit, Madge} is mafia.
2) If generalz is Town, dimochka is scum as described above.
3) Therefore, exactly one of {Carlington, adnapemit, Madge} is mafia, if generalz is town.

From the above two blocks of logic, the scum teams are so far either {generalz, moody}, or dimochka, and one of {Carlington, adnapemit, Madge}. Therefore, everybody else is town or indie, i.e. me, Suzaku, Jack, and matt.

From Jack's results:
1) If Jack is Town (detailed above), one of {Carlington, adnapemit, Suzaku, moody} is scum.
2) If generalz and moody are the scum team, moody is the one from the above block.
3) If dimochka and others are the scum team, moody must be town, as is Suzaku from above logic, and we therefore know that Carlington or adnapemit must be dimochka's team-mate, so Madge is cleared.

Therefore, final conclusion is remaining scum: {Carlington/adnapemit, dimochka} or {generalz, moody}. At the moment, there is no way to distinguish Carlington from adnapemit based purely on logic, there there are some behavioural clues, I reckon (e.g. if Carlington and dimochka are a scum team, Carlington heavily bussed dimochka D2). If we lynch one of them, and happen to hit scum, then I think we're done. Alternatively, we lynch one of {dimochka, generalz, moody}. Lynching town!dimochka means we should lynch generalz and moody. Lynching scum!dimochka narrows us down to a choice between two players. Alternatively, we hold off lynching any of them and wait to see what Jack's GPS result is.

Does anybody see any flaws in this logic (assuming three scum)?

What should people do with their actions tonight? I have two choices, I reckon (assuming I'm not forced to vote). Roleblock Matt again to prevent his arrest, or try to roleblock the killer. Our worst case scenario is that we mislynch, mafia kill town, and Matt arrests town (I'm sorry, I don't believe any guarantee from Matt that he'll arrest Madge). In that case, we have 8 alive, with three Town voting. Not a good place, as it requires support from both Madge and Matt to lynch somebody, and that's not going to happen, in all likelihood. If I block Matt, that still leaves us at 4 vs 2 vs 1 vs 1, which requires one player supporting us out of Madge or Matt. I think Madge might support us in that situation, but I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it. If I attempt to block the killer, and I fail, we potentially lose a townie ability, and we are at the worst case scenario. On the other hand, if I succeed, we are at 4 vs 2 vs 1 vs 1 again, if Matt arrests Town.

This brings me back to lynching Matt as a proposal for today, mainly because not only does it remove his arrest from play, but it also removes a potential not-pro-Town vote. If we lynch him, and scum kill Town, we are down to 5 vs 2 vs 1, (or 6 vs 2 vs 1, if I successfully roleblock the killer) but with no further info as to who the scum are, apart from any information our investigations are able to provide. It appears that the only investigative power still out there is generalz, plus any tangential side-effects we get from everybody's abilities (e.g. a lack of a kill probably makes my target mafia, but not for certain). In that case we should then have a GPS result from Jack, confirming dimochka one way or another, and therefore bringing us down to a 50/50 between Carlington and adnapemit, if dimochka is scum, or to moody/generalz as described above. We lynch one guaranteed scum the next night, putting us at 3 vs 1 vs 1, and then have to take it from there.

From that, I reckon our best option is lynch Matt, then see what we get overnight. What do others think? Also, given the presumed 6 town remaining out of 10, and me unlikely to vote, I think we need to aim for a hammer to prevent last minute swings to no lynch (which is strictly worse than lynching matt, as we cannot guarantee which way matt will go, especially as he failed to respond to my previous questions about what happens to him on his victory...).

Out of time now, more later hopefully.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby dimochka » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:41 pm UTC

Matt - Can you answer what happens if you win? Or are you not allowed to? I would optimally like to give you a win but not at our expense.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 2

Postby Sabrar » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:57 pm UTC

Deadline is in 2 days and an hour. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
dimochka - 2 (generalz, moody7277)
No Lynch - 2 (matt96, Madge)

Not voting: everyone else

Tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:08 pm UTC

Is anybody out there still? I'm concerned that it's been rather quiet. Last post times (in UTC) for comparison:
adnapemit: Friday late morning
Carlington: Wednesday afternoon
dimochka: Saturday afternoon
generalz: Wednesday afternoon
JackHK: late Wednesday evening
Madge: Saturday shortly after midnight
Matt: Friday afternoon
moody: Thursday late afternoon
Suzaku: Thursday afternoon

Requesting modprods on Carlington, generalz and JackHK.

Since Matt hasn't provided this information, let's see if the mod will:
If an independent-aligned player's win condition does not actively cause Town to lose (e.g. by them being eliminated), does them fulfilling their win-condition cause the game to end? If not, what happens to the player - do they remain in the game?
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby Sabrar » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:15 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:If an independent-aligned player's win condition does not actively cause Town to lose (e.g. by them being eliminated), does them fulfilling their win-condition cause the game to end?
If there is such a role in the game, fulfilling that victory condition will not end the game.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:If not, what happens to the player - do they remain in the game?
No comment.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby generalz » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:21 pm UTC

Still here, just reading. Will post my thought tomorrow.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby moody7277 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:43 pm UTC

No lynch, except in highly specific situations, is anti-town. I know I'm repeating obvious stuff, but apparently people need to hear it. An independently aligned role that requires it seems to me to be on the bad side of neutral, not as much so obviously as a SK, but more so than a survivor would be (and then there's the politically charged role name). dimochka being fine with helping the stinking red in his goal I find to be one more point against him,
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby dimochka » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:12 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:dimochka being fine with helping the stinking red in his goal I find to be one more point against him,

All I asked was a question about his wincon. I didn't outright say that we should no lynch, I wanted to find out details. I don't see how that's anti-town whatsoever. All it's called is being a nice person and letting people who are playing and aren't preventing us from winning get their win as well. I would have done the same if I were scum. It's exactly the same thought as the one I had about Madge on D1, where I wanted to make sure that she gets her chance to play, and based on which SirG built his entire argument. The fact that you're trying something similar is a point against you in my book.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby JackHK » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:59 pm UTC

Sorry, like generalz, I've mostly only had time to read. I'm currently watching Carmen, so I'll just say that I agree with most all of what jimbob has deduced. Who do people reckon I should use the tracker on tonight?
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:54 pm UTC

JackHK wrote:Who do people reckon I should use the tracker on tonight?
I reckon the best bet is to use it on someone like Madge - she sends a message to someone, which you can track. Her target can verify who she targeted, and you can verify if your result matches what is expected, in case a fake GPS gives a random result. That is, of course, if Madge is happy to go with that. I'd suggest a claim order then of Madge, you, then Madge's target tomorrow.

Assuming my earlier logic holds up, there's no information you can usefully gain from the GPS, since either it's fake, or we know who the scum is. However, if you think that there are 4+ scum in the game (including SirG), then there may be benefit in targeting somebody else to try to spot them killing someone, or verifying their target.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby adnapemit » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:24 pm UTC

The blob needs to feed.

Vote: No Lynch
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 3

Postby adnapemit » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:29 pm UTC

Mod-approved message: Night has fallen.
Please refrain from posting until mod confirms.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 1

Postby Sabrar » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:15 am UTC

Night has fallen.

Final votals:
No Lynch - 3 (matt96, Madge, adnapemit)
dimochka - 2 (generalz, moody7277)

Not voting: everyone else

No one has been lynched. Please refrain from posting until D4 starts.

Please send me your night-actions (if you have any)! Due to day-end happening early and in the middle of the weekend there is a period of grace in which you can send it in. D4 starts when circumstances permit, but latest at the original deadline.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Night 3

Postby Sabrar » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:42 am UTC

Carlington is dead. He was a Locksmith, aligned with Town.
adnapemit has been arrested. During D2 she may not vote and she cannot be lynched.


It is now Day 4. Deadline is set at next Monday 6pm UTC.

9 players alive, 5 votes required to hammer.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby generalz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:07 am UTC

Alright so what the hell was that?

adnapemit can end the day early??? I found one role in Mafia Universe, Paralyzer, (almost always) Mafia aligned. Now that Carlington is dead and confirmed town, that would mean she is scum.

Btw, I used my power last night, this time to dream of 1 Town person. The person is... dimochka! But this does not really help us because that means he is either Town or Mafia Godfather (the 2nd option seems more likely).

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:11 pm UTC

I expected scum to kill JackHK to prevent his revealing the GPS result, so I tried to protect him. Guess I was wrong. Carlington was an odd choice for kill to be honest, because it further reinforces adnapemit as scum. Although to be honest, that doesn't really surprise me, given she basically outed herself as anti-town.

Anyway, let's hear what people have to say about their night. In particular:
1) JackHK - did you use the GPS, and if so what was the result?
2) adnapemit - do you have anything to say for yourself? 3) matt - hope you are happy with your win. Why did you arrest adnapemit, and what is your plan moving forward?
4) moody/dimochka - assuming you did, who did you give presents to?
5) Suzaku - did you use the syringe? If so, on who? Also, I'd still like you to say something about your role, if there's anything useful we might learn from it.
6) Madge - do you have any information you're willing to share?

I don't see any benefit in whoever received the lock last night from Carlington in claiming that bit, so don't.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby JackHK » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:26 pm UTC

Bit rushed, but
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:1) JackHK - did you use the GPS, and if so what was the result?


There was no result.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby generalz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:27 pm UTC

No Result means dimochka is confirmed scum, right?

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby moody7277 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:35 pm UTC

a. I didn't use a power last night.

b. I'm still certain that usurper!SirG wanting dimochka dead means dim's the Godfather.

Vote: dimochka

c. Carlington flipping town means either adnapemit or Suzaku are scum. A reread of both is in order.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby adnapemit » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:17 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:2) adnapemit - do you have anything to say for yourself?

I wanted to test the theory that if matt won then he would be removed from the game.
Also I needed more nights to absorb people into the blob of doom.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby Madge » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:17 pm UTC

JackHK wrote:Bit rushed, but
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:1) JackHK - did you use the GPS, and if so what was the result?


There was no result.


Who was your target? You could have been rbd or jailed etc. Is not necessarily scum dim. Not looking great though.

I have info and it should be useful. However I'm going to wait to reveal it until later today.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby JackHK » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:20 pm UTC

Oh, I targeted you, Madge. Is there any reason not to lynch dimochka?

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby generalz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:31 pm UTC

Quick summary of events that will explain my vote:

1. dimochka claims Inventor and that he sent an item other than a medkit to Carlington. Carlington (now dead and confirmed town) said he did not receive anything.
2. moody7277 received a fake medkit and absorbed the power of a False Inventor. Unlikely (IMO) that we have both real and false inventor.
3. SirGabriel the Usurper tries to start a bandwagon on dimochka in order to achieve his win condition (outlive the Mafia Godfather). In a last effort, reveals the names of all his scum mates.
4. dimochka sent a GPS to JackHK. JackHK tested the GPS and it does not work.
5. I dreamt about dimochka last night and was revealed town. Now I remember one of his earlier post when he said something along the lines of "if there is a cop, please investigate me, I have nothing to hide". To me that's clearly a Godfather talking.
6. We have to start getting rid of Mafia before we see more bodies and have more unpleasant surprises like last night.

Vote: dimochka

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 2

Postby generalz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:38 pm UTC

EBWOP for my point 5, on page 6:
dimochka wrote:So IFF we are so inclined to test my statements, we can have Generalz use his power on me. I think it would be a waste, but I don't mind.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby Suzaku » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:13 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Suzaku - do you have anything against claiming, or is it just an oversight? I believe you are the only person not to have claimed so far.

Nothing against per se

Simply didn't think it would be particularly useful.

Since, as you say, I'm the only one not to claim so far, here goes:

I am the town super-backup. I inherit the powers of all dead townies, but can only use one each night.
N1 I inherited ConMan's silencer power, which I used on Moody N2.
N2 no townies died, so I didn't gain any new powers.
Last night I inherited Carlington's locksmith ability, which I will be able to use tonight if I so choose.
I used ConMan's power last night (I had no other oops, not actually the case), but I think I'll sit on who I targeted for a while longer.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:5) Suzaku - did you use the syringe? If so, on who? Also, I'd still like you to say something about your role, if there's anything useful we might learn from it.

I didn't use the syringe (I'm not sure I could have since I used the silencer power instead). But actually I completely forgot about it when I woke up Sunday morning to a message from the mod saying, essentially, get your action in now or else.

So if we believe both generalz and Madge then adnapemit is conf scum: {Carlington, adnapemit, Madge} less town!Carlington and Oracle!Madge.
If we believe Jack, then it's 50/50 between adnapemit and moody (FMPOV) or one-in-three in {adnapemit, Suzaku, moody7277} (FEEPOV).

Maybe significant that adnapemit was arrested, meaning she survives today? Not who I would have picked if I were matt, but that may be not taking his communism into account - although since he's already got his win (modulo bastardry) he now presumably has no horse in the race.

"No result" on the GPS is pretty damning for dim, unless jimbob (I think our only claimed roleblocker) wants to claim they RBed Jack. Which is counter to already claimed action so I guess not.

If we trust moody (and by extension generalz) then dim and adnap are the scum team. Since adnap is safe for today, we should lynch dim.
Unfortunately by the same token we have a 'town' result on dim. Which could mean that we're being played, but more likely simply indicates a Godfather.

Logic is telling me this is far and away the most likely case, but my gut still doesn't want to trust moody too much.

I see no reason to rush into things, so no vote for now, but I'll be surprised if I can be convinced not to vote dim, if I've not missed or cocked up anything in the above thoughts.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby adnapemit » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:39 pm UTC

It might be because generalz is pushing the lynch of dimochka so hard even though it would likely occur anyway but I would like to look at the situation from a completely different angle just to provide balance and a complete arguement.
Point one could be explained by role blocking or redirection. (Since no one has claimed we can only assume what dim said was a lie)
Point two moody could be lying or his ability corrupts the role he recieves.His ability could allow him to target another player and take their role while blocking them. ( This is again unlikely when added to Jacks item did nothing)
However at point three generalz's lists begins to be based on the assumption that the SirGabriel actually revealed his fellow scum when communication could have been done through chat. SirG's persistence to lynch dim does make it appear that dim is the godfather because of his requirement to kill the godfather but he could have just been targeting town.
Point 4 ignores the possibility of role blocks. Jimbob did claim to use his power on Jack. Blocking instead of protection is an easy lie.
The quote referenced in point 5 could also be said by someone who is town and knows they would get a town result.
Finally point 6 is just how mafia games are played.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby generalz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

So that would mean there are (at least) 3 Mafia left in the game? Jimbob, Moody and myself? Sorry but I find it very unlikely.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby moody7277 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:17 pm UTC

Suzaku wrote:N1 I inherited ConMan's silencer power, which I used on Moody N2.


I was wondering why the verb associated with the dead guy was used when I lost my PM ability D3. Putting Suzaku in the confirmed townie category with associated conclusions following.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby dimochka » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:44 pm UTC

First - I already told you guys to lynch me on D3. I'm liking this even less now, because I'm even more worried that killing me will result in a town loss. Big FoS on adnapemit for ending the day like that. Now AGAIN I understand that I look like the most logical candidate to lynch, HOWEVER, can we please figure out a contingency plan for when I flip town? I'm seriously at a loss.

Oh and btw FoS Jimbob for conveniently not mentioning having received anything at night, UNLESS I got roleblocked (again).
AND FoS Generalz for nitpicking JUST LIKE SirG did - your point #5 makes no sense whatsoever because anyone would have said the same thing, and your post before that about how my items not working mean that I'm scum - no it does not mean that I'm scum. It means that this game is bastard and my items don't work. It's the same as having a naive cop use his power on scum and reveal that person to be town, then find out that that person is scum. So don't twist things around to match to your agenda.

I'm doing some re-reads. I'll have a bigger post later. If there is something you want me to address let me know. I will even vote for myself if we have a clear plan of what to do when I flip town. Scum is probably laughing about the havoc they caused so far...
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby moody7277 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:10 pm UTC

Cleaning up an issue from the end of D3: I do not have a problem with being nice to people and letting them have fun. My problem starts when their goals are in conflict with my goal. Wrt Madge, her goal is completely independent to the town/scum conflict, and while she said she was going to be aloof re scumhunting, she has happily reversed herself on that issue. Personally, I would think that the former would be less fun than getting in and grinding it out. Wrt to matt, the goal that the mafia wiki gives for his stated role of Communist, that of achieving a no lynch, is in the vast majority of cases, unhelpful for town. He has also jailed the person we are most suspicious of besides dimochka.

Basically, if I weren't already voting for dim for very good reasons, I'd consider voting matt.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby dimochka » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:53 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Cleaning up an issue from the end of D3: I do not have a problem with being nice to people and letting them have fun. My problem starts when their goals are in conflict with my goal. Wrt Madge, her goal is completely independent to the town/scum conflict, and while she said she was going to be aloof re scumhunting, she has happily reversed herself on that issue. Personally, I would think that the former would be less fun than getting in and grinding it out. Wrt to matt, the goal that the mafia wiki gives for his stated role of Communist, that of achieving a no lynch, is in the vast majority of cases, unhelpful for town. He has also jailed the person we are most suspicious of besides dimochka.

Thank you, while I don't fully agree this does make a lot more sense.
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Re: Trial of the Pariahs - Day 4

Postby generalz » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:47 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:HOWEVER, can we please figure out a contingency plan for when I flip town? I'm seriously at a loss.

If you flip town, you will have 2 confirmed mafia, me and moody. Proceed to lynch both of us and town wins! But you know it won't happen :)


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