Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 2: Sashtag

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Zenii
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:44 pm UTC

plytho isn't actually scum hunting, he's just reacting and regurgitating. It's so fake. Like that interaction count thing served no purpose other than to show that he is doing analysis. I don't trust him one bit and I don't trust he'll make a shot beneficial to us.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Zenii, why is somitomi so far down your list?


The difference between this:
somitomi wrote:
Zenii wrote:We need you in order to win. It doesn't look like we'll be getting replacements anytime soon. You don't have to read everything to make an informed decision. You can catch up during the night if you need. All we need from you right now is to vote for plytho.

You can find a quick summary of Laserguy's case here. Much if it relates to plytho's post here.
I tentatively agree with LaserGuy's case, but I will definitely take a closer look before voting. I know we don't have much time, but rushing things would just help scum in my opinion.
and this:
mpolo wrote:What is the case against plytho that is supposed to be so obvious that I would just pop in and vote?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:49 pm UTC

But yeah, Boom, I'm not saving you this time. I support your lynch as well.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:06 pm UTC

Alright, since LaserGuy can't wait until D2 I'll have to do the ol' quantum vote analysis.

If plytho is town:
zenii - Strong pushes on many townies. Seems to have backed off me, but it's probably too late. Lowered from 95% town to only about 80% town. (no Vic this is not using proper bysian reasoning to update confidence)
Vicarin - Happy to let the dice fall where they may. - scummy
moodssie - Doesn't need to care about lynch. Slightly scummy but well within townie behavior
wamtomi - Had more chance then Bessie to care about the lynch, but lack of caring may be due to scummyiness - scummy
LaserGuy - His move from plytho to me feels sincere. He's invested in the lynch outcome and paying attention. Slightly townie
Mpolo - Doesn't need to care about the lynch, happy to throw his vote in on what seemed the losing side - slightly scummy
Jimbobmacdoodle - Cares strongly about not being tied to plytho and defending his case on me. After more thought I'm actually changing my assessment. If plytho is town then scum JimBob wouldn't have cared so much about being tied to someone he knows is not mafia. - slightly townie
Mark_Cangila - Very follow the crowd vote, not really trying to figure things out on his own, just rewording other people's reasoning - slightly scummy

If plytho is scum:
zenii - Super town
Vicarin - very town
moodssie - Didn't try to find a reason to protect her partner. She may have been worried about being blatant considering her lack of context to justify the vote. Plytho would have probably posted more tidbits for her to pick up on and justify voting me though. - townie
wamtomi - Apathy in the face of a partner being lynched - townie
LaserGuy - His original push on plytho was too strong, despite the final move to me - very townie
Mpolo - Follow the crowd justification and clearly not paying a lot of attention - scummy
Jimbobmacdoodle - A vast supply of minor points to justify his vote - scummy
Mark_Cangila - Still weakly justified vote, but even worse that it was defending scum - scummy

So, mpolo and Mark just voted in scummy ways regardless. If plytho is town I'd lynch Vic first. Then consider from the pool of wamtomi, moodssie, Mark, mpolo. But that's really just the grabbag of lower content players. Vic looks very bad though.

If plytho is scum then the remaining scum almost certainly JimBob and/or Mark with a chance of mpolo. Indy mpolo is making a lot of sense though. He's so disengaged.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:12 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:But yeah, Boom, I'm not saving you this time. I support your lynch as well.

Fair enough.

And... I just reread my role PM. The proof wouldn't come until D3 and that is far too late I am sure. So I'm not going to bother claiming. It won't sway anyone. And that is going to be the final nail in my coffin, I'm sure. :(
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:16 pm UTC

@plytho, why haven't you tried to figure out who my buddies are?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:25 pm UTC

I have.

Vicarin is a candidate.

Moody/bessie is a candidate.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:26 pm UTC

P4 notes.

Zenii wrote:Never ceases to amaze me how people underestimate "newbies". Mark's best skill is ability to mimic his town tone. He would totally go against the grain. It's weird that Boom doesn't think that the guy that counter claimed Queen of Diamonds would be bold enough to do so. Anyway, I do think Mark is town sided.

Agree with this assessment of Mark, but note that IIRC Mark claimed Queen of Diamonds first ans was counter claimed. Not sure if that affects your read.

Not liking plythos reads list on p4. There's not a lot of conclusions, and his reads are sprinkled with what may be sarcasm but it's not clear (something I get accused of too) like his read of mark. Don't like the Vicarin read, and don't agree with the slip I suspect this may be to move the discussion to talking about the sash and away from player analysis, note plytho does end with more sash discussion.

Bye for a while, will try to get in another post in about an hour.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby somitomi » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:32 pm UTC

How does everyone else have this much free time on their hands? Just reading it takes ages and then it all blurs together.
I will stop complaining about this as soon as D1 ends on page two for once...

Zenii wrote:The difference between this:
somitomi wrote:
Zenii wrote:We need you in order to win. It doesn't look like we'll be getting replacements anytime soon. You don't have to read everything to make an informed decision. You can catch up during the night if you need. All we need from you right now is to vote for plytho.

You can find a quick summary of Laserguy's case here. Much if it relates to plytho's post here.
I tentatively agree with LaserGuy's case, but I will definitely take a closer look before voting. I know we don't have much time, but rushing things would just help scum in my opinion.
and this:
mpolo wrote:What is the case against plytho that is supposed to be so obvious that I would just pop in and vote?

Could you elaborate? I don't really see it.

Might post more later, my brain feels like a cinderblock at the moment.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:46 pm UTC

I don't think what I linked could have given you an impression. I think you just said what wanted to be heard.

Vote: somitomi

@boom claiming would still be helpful so we can better piece the game together after your lynch
@bessie we really need to discuss your no claim philosophy

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:54 pm UTC

Zenii wrote:@boom claiming would still be helpful so we can better piece the game together after your lynch


Will full PMs be revealed on flip?

If not, I'll claim before deadline.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Sabrar » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:59 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Will full PMs be revealed on flip?
No.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:06 pm UTC

Fine. I'm Chester the dog. (So tempted do the woofing thing again from this, but it felt overdone.) I'm a "loudener" My target will have their next night's action displayed publicly by the mod the next day. I missed the "next" night bit originally and thought I had an awesome super verifiable townie power. Still a pretty cool power.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:10 pm UTC

Woofing is never overdone. It is a legitimate language.

Is your ability 1 shot?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:12 pm UTC

No. It's every night.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

There's a discrepancy between the amount of opportunities each player has to obtain the sash then. That doesn't seem right from a game perspective.

Ex: plytho has a 1-shot and a recurring ability. You have a single recurring ability.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:43 pm UTC

Can't use them both in one night.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:57 pm UTC

BoomFrog's claim makes a lot more sense to me in that it's only a single reusable power instead of a 1 shot and a reusable power. In addition, I did find it weird that plytho had an ability that specifically interacted with the Sash.

That seems like a hell of a power BoomFrog. At least if you target it well D1.

What aspects of Role PMs will be revealed?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:03 pm UTC

Unvote

Need to think about that claim and don't want a surprise hammer.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:That seems like a hell of a power BoomFrog. At least if you target it well D1.
Cool, is that your read on BoomFrog?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:19 pm UTC

:roll:

Rereading all his posts now.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Madge » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:23 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:What aspects of Role PMs will be revealed?


Rolename, alignment, and power (the power as it appears in your role PM), e.g. "Madge was killed. She was Jeff Probst, Town Reality TV Host"
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:24 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I have.

Vicarin is a candidate.

Moody/bessie is a candidate.

What about wamitomi.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I've been mulling over LaserGuy's statement about reading Vic very strongly, and it's certainly not unusual for him to make early judgement calls like this based on little information. I think I know the reason why as well - Vicarin's mod questions make little sense coming from scum, and a lot of sense coming from Town.

Not entirely sure, but wasn't one of those questions asked before the role pms went out?

Sorry bessie, I thought I answered this, but it looks like I either accidentally overwrote it when I answered something else or something caused my response to never send. Vicarin posted three questions, across two posts. The first question was in a post pre sending out of role PMs. The second post contained two other questions, which were posted after he received his role PM. I found them reasonably townie. I'm not convinced scum!Vicarin would have posted them.

I'm too tired I'm afraid to properly review and respond to everything. I'll try to catch up tomorrow. I agree that BoomFrog's claim sounds more believable than plytho's. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if Madge and Sabrar actually put a dog in the setup...! I do have some other thoughts about Boom's claim that ever so slightly make me doubt it (beyond anything else I have against him), but I don't want to raise them just now.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:33 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:That seems like a hell of a power BoomFrog. At least if you target it well D1.

Yeah it's pretty good. Especially the verifiable part. But now that I've claimed I'm basically just a slow tracker.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:24 pm UTC

Ok, having reread all of BoomFrog's posts:

I don't think the statement towards plytho is alignment indicative. That early on in the game, I'd be assuming that people are town until their behaviour shows otherwise, and I don't think BoomFrog is immune to jumping to grandiose conclusions from pretty little evidence.

I do think his position towards Sash claiming is interesting. On page 2, he tells Mark that it's good to determine where the Sash is to prevent PRs from getting blocked. Then, on page 4, he states that he's against the claims because he says he's realised that doctors or watchers could be blocked and the NK could safely target the Sash. Then plytho points out an issue with how he's interpreting the wording, and he switches back his position. I think he's coming from a townie place here, he's actually trying to check the mechanics of the Sash claim to see if there's any problems, unlike a lot of people.

His joky buddying with Zen comes off as a bit weird. On that note, he's gone for a lot of explicit jokes this game. Apparently that was the gambit? He says later that he was being more flippant than usual.

He correctly concludes that it's not worth focusing on a Sash victory as Town D1, unlike some people :x.

Once he starts being put under some suspicion, he steps up his activity, which is slightly scummy (I'd expect Town!BoomFrog to be more consistently active), but presents some pretty good reasoning against plytho and Jimbob.

I think his defence against the BoomFrog and plytho situation makes a lot of sense, going with my initial impression of the situation.

Throughout, he's been doing plenty of probing questions and explaining his reads.

Overall, not seeing the scummy behaviour from him. I think people are reading way, way too much into him calling plytho a jerk, and most of everything else has been townie.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:34 pm UTC

@Zen: you want to avoid messing up the tiebreakers and switch back to plytho? I think you're wrong about the whole BoomFrog shebang.

Seeing as a 5-5 split vote apparently triggers a NL, someone being the first person on 5 votes will guarantee their lynch if noone moves. Assuming noone tries to throw the game by triggering a NL D1.

@BoomFrog: well, you're a slow tracker that gets the results posted in thread, and presumably it still goes through if you die. Also, the way you described it, it sounded like it says what kind of ability the target used too, which seems way better.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:41 pm UTC

Yeah, I'll switch to plytho. I'm just doing a final reread. Can you do a deep dive on jimbob like the one you did for Boom?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:54 pm UTC

Ordered list update:

Town
Vicarin
Zen
BoomFrog
LaserGuy
bessie
jimbobmacdoodle
mpolo
somitomi
Mark
plytho
Scum

Lurkers are still lurking pretty hard, plytho's reasoning is still really off (and his claim is weird)(and that mentions analysis is lol),
bessie seems to be putting in some effort to analyse stuff immediately (though I still dislike her kneejerk anticlaim stance), LaserGuy has been redeeming his earlier weirdness with actual explanations.

For reference, I'm seeing jimbob as 'eh, town I guess?' because there's so much bloody lurking going on. mpolo, somitomi and Mark all need to step up their games.

STILL waiting on final Sash claims.

@Zen: be right on it (so much reading).

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Madge » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:05 am UTC

Votals

plytho - (2) - Vicarin, BoomFrog
BoomFrog - (4) - Mark_Cangila, jimbobmacdoodle, plytho, mpolo,
Somitomi - (1) - Zenii

Not voting: somitomi, bessie, LaserGuy

Let us know if something is incorrect.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:55 am UTC

Jimbobmacdoodle; an analysis:

As previously mentioned, he doesn't pay as much attention as he could have early on with regards to people's reactions to Zen, and bringing up Stellaris. Although he does say he'll be busy early on, managing to miss direct answers immediately after his posts is weird.

Tries to stay neutral with regards to Sash claiming until the benefits are outlined, and then agrees with claims once they are. Probably NAI.

Attacks moody over his comment about Mark. Seems to be a perfectly reasonable reason to go after moody for being so early in the game. I don't think his precise reasoning is correct (still don't see town!Mark doing that) but oh well.

Starts asking everyone a ton of questions and follows through on answers to previous ones. A good sign of trying to drive the game forward. This continues for several pages until the reads on page 6. Once again, I think he reads too much into BoomFrog's interaction with plytho, he's very noncommittal on mpolo, and also noncommittal with plytho. The ordered list is also weird (as pointed out by BoomFrog), as given the comments, I'd expect mpolo and plytho to not have wam sandwiched between them.

Pokes Zen about somitomi's and bessie's locations on his list; pretty reasonable.

Other than that, he's defended his reads a bit, and he's been commenting on people trying to figure out stuff from my early mod questions. Neither of these are particularly indicative.

Overall, he's been doing plenty of questioning, but as the day has been going on, he's been tunneling significantly more on BoomFrog to the exclusion of other people. Somewhat worried that he's smelled blood in the water like he did with me in Meta Mafia (he said after the game that he wasn't sure he'd have driven my lynch as hard if he was town) and been trying to drive a popular mislynch, but other than the tunneling his content's pretty good. Fairly happy with where he is (maybe swap with bessie).

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:54 am UTC

Thanks, Vic!

So a "sweet, townies can't win through a pyrrhic victory" sentiment seems more apt coming from scum than from town.

@all: your comments on this reasoning please.
I missed this. It's a pretty silly point. Why would Vic express satisfaction for it in thread if he thought it was pro-scum.

Not understanding how Laser isn't getting how these are different:

A. Vic asks question before role - vic gets role - vic follows up on question
B. Vic gets role - vic asks question

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:04 am UTC

@Boom do you have thoughts about the discrepancy. Is it because you're colluding with Holt?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:05 am UTC

mpolo wrote:Of the two main arguments - plytho or Boomfrog, I feel like Boomfrog is more likely scum. As others have said, this is mostly a tonal thing. His vote seems a little bit opportunistic.

Why was my vote opportunistic? Plytho was second scummiest on my reads list.

mpolo wrote:There is the consideration that plytho had been sitting at L-1 for a long time without someone hammering, but that is probably only a week indication at best.

I'll come back to this after lunch.

mpolo wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@mpolo: plytho's at 4 votes, which makes it L-2 in a 10 player game. Kind of hard to self or quick-hammer in that case :P


Well, that means I read wrong. What a surprise.

Then I will

Vote: BoomFrog

Even if this is mostly from "feel".

Plytho being at L-1 but not self hammer is (maybe barely) evidence that plytho is not scum if it had been true. Why does finding out that this evidence of plytho's towniness is false cause you to decide to vote me? (underlined for emphasis)
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:13 am UTC

Zenii wrote:@Boom do you have thoughts about the discrepancy. Is it because you're colluding with Holt?

Which discrepancy? There's been a lot of them. Why'd you make me look up who Holt is? The alignments were randomized separately from role names. (Hmm, looking back at the rules I can't find this, but I assume it's true.)
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:14 am UTC

Huh.

Actually, there is something pretty damn weird about BoomFrog's claim. Makes me think he's a bit more townie though.

Ninja'd it's 10. in the last section.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:15 am UTC

The discrepancy in abilities.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:27 am UTC

Clearly Madge and Sabrar came up with a bunch of fun non-standard stuff and also gave scum safe claims. And Sabrar is good at making sure safe claims are quality. I think in Dark Tower he gave full role PMs.

Assuming that plytho can't use the vig at the same time as the sash-cop power then is a plausible town set of powers. I find it slightly off that plytho didn't clarify when Vic asked about using both at once. However, sash-cop is a very plausible scum power as well, and obviously vig is hard to verify when scum can hear our plan to verify and mess with it. So I view his claim something like roleblocker. Kinda scummy but could be town too. Also, super fits with what an indy who needs the sash to win would have. I don't recall him being super pro sash claiming though.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:37 am UTC

I didn't ask plytho about him being able to use both at once, he seemed to bring that up when Zen thought it was weird that plytho would have an extra chance to trigger Heist. Where'd you get that from?

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BoomFrog
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:15 am UTC

Zenii wrote:There's a discrepancy between the amount of opportunities each player has to obtain the sash then. That doesn't seem right from a game perspective.

Ex: plytho has a 1-shot and a recurring ability. You have a single recurring ability.

plytho wrote:Can't use them both in one night.

Oh yeah, Zenii asked and plytho did totally answer that. @Zenii: if the sash chances are the specific descrepency you are referring to, I feel his sash info gives him a slight edge but not an unreasonable advantage. We still both have pretty similar chances of winning the dash at the end (assuming he's town).

I assume everyone can only use one ability a night except maybe scum can use a power and the NK.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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BoomFrog
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:37 am UTC

Btw, I'm off for the night. Going on a date with my wife. :D

Have fun.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos


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