Citation Hell

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jewish_scientist
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Citation Hell

Postby jewish_scientist » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:10 am UTC

I am writing an essay on my own. Its not a school assignment, I just want to practice writing academic style papers. One of the things I want to make sure that I get right is the citations. Most of the time, this is easy. Easybib does basically all the work for me. However, I do not think that it can help me with this case.

I want to quote a different paper that I wrote as a school assignment, which contains quotations and paraphrases from the IEP. The IEP in turn paraphrases many different philosophers. What is the proper way to format this citation in MLA?

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ucim
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Re: Citation Hell

Postby ucim » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:32 pm UTC

I can't help you directly, but I would first ascertain what it is you are quoting, and why (on which authority) it is being used as support for your point. If you are using quotes from philosophers to back you up, then the philosophers are the authority you are referencing, and I'd find an original source for their quote, and cite that. But if you yourself are the authority ("jewish_scientist claims foo, and that's good enough for me"), then cite your paper directly. A source does not have to be publicly available to be valid (I've seen the likes of "Fulano deTal, private communication" cited in scientific papers), but being harder to confirm, it's less convincing as a resort to authority.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Citation Hell

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

I agree that the best thing to do is to just cite your primary sources. I guess you could cite it as an unpublished work if it's absolutely necessary that you quote that source, but your audience isn't likely to give it much credibility since they have no way of accessing that work.

It's a good idea not to cite yourself too often anyway. In some cases it's inevitable, and if you have a good reason to do it, that's fine, but reviewers are often unforgiving if they see you gratuitously citing your own works.

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trpmb6
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Re: Citation Hell

Postby trpmb6 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:57 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:It's a good idea not to cite yourself too often anyway. In some cases it's inevitable, and if you have a good reason to do it, that's fine, but reviewers are often unforgiving if they see you gratuitously citing your own works.


I came across this thread randomly and this reminded me about a time in college when I had two separate professors who were both among the top researchers in their respective fields. One was Heat Transfer and the other was Acoustics (specifically aircraft engine nacelles). Any research paper you did in their classes led to you inevitably citing one of their works. And it was very common for them to cite themselves. I remember one of the Heat Transfer papers we were reviewing that our Professor wrote had about 20ish sources. 3/4th of them were works he had authored, co-authored or was the adviser for (think thesis/dissertations/etc).

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Liri
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Re: Citation Hell

Postby Liri » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:38 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:It's a good idea not to cite yourself too often anyway. In some cases it's inevitable, and if you have a good reason to do it, that's fine, but reviewers are often unforgiving if they see you gratuitously citing your own works.

I see it most often as, "here're our previous results that we're continuing from" or "see this paper for a more detailed method description". Rather than the researchers ignoring conflicting studies and continuing on a single track. Most big grants expect more than a single paper, for instance.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

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ucim
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Re: Citation Hell

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:10 am UTC

There was a time {mumble} years ago where I was doing data entry for a conference on natal care; part of the job involved reading submitted papers and making recommendations. There was this one paper that proposed some very odd methods, and seemed on the verge of quackery. I started going through the footnotes and references and citations; it turns out that pretty much every one of them was to one of xis other papers, which also cited others of xer papers. (We really have to work on genderless pronouns!) More notably, none (or almost none - it's been too long for me to recall accurately) of the references cited any legitimate external work.

The person in charge of the conference had not noticed this (xe also leaned towards odd methodologies), but when it was pointed out, was bowled over.

IIRC, the conference did not include this presenter.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

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trpmb6
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Re: Citation Hell

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:08 pm UTC

In the aircraft industry, certification documents will often refer back to previously certified documents; whether it be an expansion upon the previous document or a completely new aircraft utilizing methods/components/materials/etc that were previously certified. The "don't fix it if it ain't broke" adage applies. Though occasionally the FAA/EASA will slap us down and change the regulations so we have to address that but it's usually minor. (As an aside, this is one of the reasons why Boeing and Airbus have been doing re-engine programs like the 737MAX or the A320NEO because they don't want to recertify an entire airframe and you can still get some marginal performance improvements with the new engine tech out there.)


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