Book Seven (of the Harry Potter series)

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Postby aisling » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:43 pm UTC

I'm not sure if I read this or if I heard it word of mouth, but someone told me they think that Dumbledore will be an Animagus (sp?). Apparently at the end of 6, during or after the funeral, Harry sees a white bee. A white bee? That seems a little off, eh? Maybe Snape actually only stunned Dumbledore, with a curse that resembles the Avada Kedavra (sp again?) and it wore off at the end of the funeral so Dumbledore could change himself into his insect form right before they sealed him up for good. I think that would be a good plot twist. Plus, he's an amazing wizard, so doing an Animagus spell in such a short time wouldn't be beyond him.

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Postby Ren » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:51 pm UTC

Bahahaha. A white bee? Heehee. No, no. Harry saw a phoenix coming from the flames of Dumbledore's coffin, but no white bees.
Also, JKR has confirmed Dumbledore is dead.
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Postby Gwydion » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:35 pm UTC

She can confirm all she wants, he's not dead, I swear!!!

There are just too many things pointing to Dumbledore being alive (if you want them to be there), but I'm not sure what to think. If Rowling spent the past year or two swearing he's dead only to say "just kidding" when the book is released, I'll be unhappy. Then again, if he's dead, I'm unhappy anyway.

Interesting thoughts (no actual quotes, since the books are all in my apartment and I'm home for the summer):
In OotP, Harry is taunted when he tries to use an Unforgiveable Curse, is told that you have to really mean it, with hate in your heart, for it to work.
Snape spends forever talking about silent spells (nonverbal, whatever), and the importance of not letting your enemy or whoever else hear the spell first.
No other instance of the Avada Kedavra led to its victim being sent flying through the air. Flash of (green) light, collapse, dead on impact.
Much of the final encounter seemed staged for Harry's benefit. Could it have been staged for someone else's? Voldemort's, via his followers?

Also, Rowling has made a habit of not wasting her scenes and content. Just about everything she's talked about, via lessons, stories, or what have you, has come back in some form later in the novels. From Harry's Chocolate Frog card mentioning Nicolas Flamel up to the potions and herbs coming back at the ends of each novel, she doesn't mention things for naught. Why, then, has she talked about the Draught of Living Death twice without anyone using, making, or needing it?

Perhaps Dumbledore will be dead by the end of the series, but I can't imagine how he could be now. Eh, I probably shouldn't take these things so seriously.

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Postby Twasbrillig » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:53 pm UTC

Harry totally isn't a horcrux. JKR isn't known for ending cliffhangers with obvious solutions. [/sarcasm]

I actually think that Fawkes is a horcrux, though - that would be a great plot twist.
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Postby william » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:14 pm UTC

I don't know much about the Harry Potter series, but the name is "Deathly Hallows" which makes me think the Ori are involved somehow.
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Postby Durinthal » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:44 pm UTC

I spent a lot of time speculating before book 6 came out, and I've started a final read-through of books 1-6. There's a lot of plot points that still need to be resolved (nice long list of things to cover/remember here). Some more detailed speculation and guessing on my part:
  • Wormtail has a lifedebt to Harry, and Dumbledore took the time to explain that it was a powerful thing. He also has a silver hand, and in legends silver is known to be a primary way of killing werewolves. While Rowling denied that he would kill Lupin with his hand, she didn't deny the concept (I'm hoping Fenrir gets it).
  • Harry needs to learn more about his parents, particularly his mother (and why it's important that he has her eyes). I'm guessing this will come from Petunia and possibly him visiting his parents' house in Godric's Hollow.
  • Ravenclaw will "have its day" and there's an unknown Horcrux. I'm guessing Luna will become more deeply involved in finding Rowena Ravenclaw's tiara.

I would have more but I haven't actually read any of the books in nearly two years, so I'm a bit rusty.

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Postby Rysto » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:06 am UTC

Twasbrillig wrote:Harry totally isn't a horcrux. JKR isn't known for ending cliffhangers with obvious solutions. [/sarcasm]

I actually think that Fawkes is a horcrux, though - that would be a great plot twist.

But then why did Fawkes help Harry kill the Basilisk and destroy the diary?

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Postby Belial » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:15 am UTC

::heavy sigh::

Alright, I'm actually going to start reading these books. I swear on my ancestors' graves, however, that I will make references to Books of Magic ripoffs nigh-constantly throughout the entire process
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Postby Maseiken » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:54 am UTC

Wouldn't you notice if a corpse had suddenly disappeared for no apparent reason?
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Postby saxything43 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:57 am UTC

Oh! I had a thought! What if:

Harry is a Horcrux of Voldemort (this means that Harry's SOUL is MIXED with Voldy's.

There comes a point when Harry wants to destroy that bit of Voldy's soul that's in him SO he attacks a dementor or fifty and gets his soul sucked out, then he gets Ron/Hermione/Lupin someone to destroy it/the dementor or something. Wouldn't that be the most awesome plot twist ever? Dementors are Harry's worst fear and he has to succumb to them to destroy Voldemort? That actually seems highly unlikely now...but still it would be VERY cool.
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Postby PatrickRsGhost » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:01 am UTC

I think Dumbledore had once said he believed Voldemort made seven (the magic number) horcruxes. Harry had already destroyed one (the diary), then there were the four items of each of the Hogwarts founders, possibly Nagini, and finally Harry.

When Harry and Dumbledore visit Prof. Slughorn's memory, they see Voldemort (as young Tom Riddle) asking about the horcruxes, and asking about the number seven.

I think I recall reading somewhere (may have been Mugglenet) that something will be revealed about Aunt Petunia, and maybe even Mrs. Figg (the old cat lady from down the street), even though something was already revealed about her in the fifth book. I know in the fifth book one of her cats darted away and reported something to her, so the cat may be a witch or wizard in Animagus form. I'm wondering if it was really Prof. McGonagall, since she is a cat in Animagus form.

As far as deaths...here's who I've got pegged:

Prof. McGonagall
Prof. Snape (near the end)
"Mad-Eye" Moody
Mr. Weasley
Bill Weasley
Charlie Weasley
Draco Malfoy (actually will want to help Harry fight Voldemort, gets killed either by Voldemort or his own father for being a traitor)

Among a few others.

The white bee was probably Aberforth in Animagus form. "Dumbledore" is derived from an old English word for "bumblebee".

I think some of the other Death Eaters may revolt against Voldemort near the end. Lucius Malfoy is tops for this, especially if he killed his own son.

If you recall in the fifth book, Percy had a falling-out with the rest of the family, since it was revealed Barty Crouch Sr. had been working under the Imperius Curse via his son and Voldemort. He still thought Sr. as a very good man, and was now working for MoM Cornelius Fudge, which was suggested that Fudge appointed him to that position to "spy" on his own family. I think Percy may finally come around, but will be killed for it as well. I think Ron will meet his end too. In the fifth book, the boggart turned into all the dead Weasleys and Harry for Mrs. Weasley.

I think the house-elf Kreacher will prove to be of some valuable asset to Harry, even though Kreacher hates him. Dobby might be able to help out more too (more than he already has, but this time not putting Harry's life in danger).

I think the book might open up with Harry dreaming, in full force, of the night of his parents' death. In the past he's only seen or heard bits and pieces. But this time he'll see it full force.
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Postby Rysto » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:09 am UTC

PatrickRsGhost wrote:I think the house-elf Kreacher will prove to be of some valuable asset to Harry, even though Kreacher hates him.

Oh, that reminds me of a theory that I once heard: To get at the necklace horcrux required two people, but the boat would only allow one adult wizard to reach the island. The theory I heard said that it was Kreacher would accompanied Regulus to get the necklace.

Edit:

I think Dumbledore had once said he believed Voldemort made seven (the magic number) horcruxes.

This is a common mistake. Seven pieces of his soul, not seven horcruxes. Six horcruxes and the last piece of Voldemort's soul, which resides in Voldemort's body. Also, you forgot about Marvolo's ring. The horcruxes are:

-Tom Riddle's diary(destroyed)
-Marvolo's ring(destroyed)
-Slytherin's locket (taken by Regulus Black, status unknown)
-Hufflepuff's cup(not confirmed, but very likely)
-Nagini (not confirmed)
-something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's(not confirmed)
Last edited by Rysto on Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:38 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Twasbrillig » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:21 am UTC

It has been lost in the sands of time, but:

Twasbrillig wrote:Dude guy. In all seriousnessosity, these are the horcruxes (in my opinion):

1. The Diary

2. The Ring (TO RULE THEM ALL)

3. Slytherin's Locket (already destroyed by REGULUS ANDROMEDA [yes. twist!] BLACK. He's now posing as a death eater, a new one, using some sort of polyjuice potion/spell or whatever, a REALLY powerful one. The locket could also be at 12 Grimmauld Place... they mentioned a locket nobody could open.)

4. Hufflepuff's dealie

5. Ravenclaw's dealie (not discovered yet)

6. Either Nagini or Fawkes (Zomg plot twist! How do you kill Fawkes? Also, Fawkes flew away so now what?)

7. Voldemort himself


I guess we all forgot about http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=1557
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Postby Ren » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:25 am UTC

Twasbrillig wrote:
3. Slytherin's Locket (already destroyed by REGULUS ANDROMEDA [yes. twist!] BLACK.


*Observes that Sirius' brother's middle name is actually Arcturus*
*Pretends like she's not a loser and a bad person for nit-picking*
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Postby Twasbrillig » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:32 am UTC

Ren wrote:
Twasbrillig wrote:
3. Slytherin's Locket (already destroyed by REGULUS ANDROMEDA [yes. twist!] BLACK.


*Observes that Sirius' brother's middle name is actually Arcturus*
*Pretends like she's not a loser and a bad person for nit-picking*


Yes, but maybe he changed it to Andromeda and pretended to be a death eater. Duh.

lol.
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Postby aisling » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:50 am UTC

Ren wrote:Bahahaha. A white bee? Heehee. No, no. Harry saw a phoenix coming from the flames of Dumbledore's coffin, but no white bees.
Also, JKR has confirmed Dumbledore is dead.


Meh, I didn't go look through the last chapters of the book to see this white bee. Someone told me about it.

Although now I might just go and check..

They said it buzzed by Harry or something, not that he saw it come out of the coffin.

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Postby blarg(!) » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:44 am UTC

anotherangel wrote:I definitely want Sirius back.


Same with my sister, but I never really liked him. What is the appeal? Is he like a goth or something?

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Postby Maseiken » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:08 am UTC

Twasbrillig wrote:It has been lost in the sands of time, but:

Twasbrillig wrote:Dude guy. In all seriousnessosity, these are the horcruxes (in my opinion):

1. The Diary

2. The Ring (TO RULE THEM ALL)

3. Slytherin's Locket (already destroyed by REGULUS ANDROMEDA [yes. twist!] BLACK. He's now posing as a death eater, a new one, using some sort of polyjuice potion/spell or whatever, a REALLY powerful one. The locket could also be at 12 Grimmauld Place... they mentioned a locket nobody could open.)

4. Hufflepuff's dealie

5. Ravenclaw's dealie (not discovered yet)

6. Either Nagini or Fawkes (Zomg plot twist! How do you kill Fawkes? Also, Fawkes flew away so now what?)

7. Voldemort himself


I guess we all forgot about http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=1557


OK, we don't KNOW that Nagini, The Ravenclaw Doohicky OR the Hufflepuff thingmabob are Horcruxes.
Harry could easily be a Horcrux and I think he is.
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Postby Twasbrillig » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:45 am UTC

Harry is NOT a horcrux, and I'm going to laugh at everyone when it turns out he isn't. It's FAR too obvious.
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Postby Maseiken » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:05 am UTC

Would you like a Screenshot to hold you to that?
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Postby GhostWolfe » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:06 am UTC

If Voldemort knew that he wanted to make 6 Horcruxes, and was thusly prepared to created them, he would know what all six were. The only way I can see that Harry is a Horcrux is for something to have gone wrong when he killed James and Lilly, resulting in Harry becoming a Horcrux, instead of the device he intended.

If Harry is a Horcrux, then Voldemort's reason for killing him is not the reason that everyone has been telling Harry it is.
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Postby gmalivuk » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:00 pm UTC

Twasbrillig wrote:3. Slytherin's Locket (already destroyed by REGULUS ANDROMEDA [yes. twist!] BLACK. He's now posing as a death eater, a new one, using some sort of polyjuice potion/spell or whatever, a REALLY powerful one. The locket could also be at 12 Grimmauld Place... they mentioned a locket nobody could open.)


Yes, that all makes sense. However, I am led to doubt that Black is the RAB mentioned in the fake locket. I base this conclusion entirely on the fact that this was my immediate first thought upon reading those initials, and so it seems too obvious.

Then again, by misinterpreting part of the preview to Sixth Sense, it took me almost until the "twist" in the movie to realize that we were supposed to still be thinking Bruce Willis's character was alive the whole time.

(Yup, he's dead. Sorry, did that spoil it for you? I guess you should have watched it eight years ago when it came out. Also, Rosebud is the sled, and soylent green is people.)
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Postby kcr » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:29 pm UTC

Twasbrillig wrote:Harry is NOT a horcrux, and I'm going to laugh at everyone when it turns out he isn't. It's FAR too obvious.

I agree! Seriously, right after HBP came out and the whole internet world was vehement that Harry was a Horcrux.. doesn't that right off the bat seem to be a sign that he isn't?

So, I suck at speculating on plot, but here's what I think: Dumbledore/Sirius are going to be present in some way, Snape is not evil, Draco is not evil, a Weasley or two has to die, Room of Love from Department of Mysteries is explored, and Harry might not be a student at Hogwarts, but he's going to be there for something. What I'm concerned about is that there is no way for JK Rowling to answer all my nitpicky and irrelevant questions about the wizarding world. I mean, she has about five billion plot things to tie up, but I just want to know like.. how your Animagus form gets decided.

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Postby aisling » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:52 pm UTC

I think that you decide your Animagus form yourself. Like when Krum tried to turn into a shark to save Hermione. You just pick an animal that suits your needs, then you change into that. As well as how James Potter and his friends chose large and small animals to do different things.

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Postby apricity » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:37 pm UTC

aisling wrote:I think that you decide your Animagus form yourself. Like when Krum tried to turn into a shark to save Hermione. You just pick an animal that suits your needs, then you change into that. As well as how James Potter and his friends chose large and small animals to do different things.


No, I don't think they chose those. I think it's more like the Patronus, where you don't decide by yourself, you just get what goes along with your personality. Like Peter's literally and figuratively a rat. Sirius is loyal and fun, so he's a dog.

By the way, Krum just transfigured himself, it wasn't an Animagus form.
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Postby aisling » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:16 pm UTC

Ok.. I thought that the Animagus spell was some form of transfiguration, though. Prof. McGonagall does it and everything.

Transfiguration is a *subject*, not just a spell.

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Postby gmalivuk » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:02 pm UTC

Animagic (would that be the noun?) may indeed be a form or subset of transfiguration. However, what Krum did was a simpler sort, and required a specific spell or potion or something for one-off competition purposes instead of being a thing he could thereafter do at will.

It was my impression that the Marauders did in fact choose their animals. Black and Potter picked big animals to be able to contend with wolf-form Lupin, while Pettigrew was something small to get by the willow tree and turn it off.
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Postby Jach » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:38 pm UTC

I had this real kick ass-theory (don't move the hyphen...) after I read the sixth book, but now I can't remember it anymore. :( So I'll have to read the new one just to see if I can remember my theory, and if it was correct. I've had other people also tell me that Snape didn't kill Dumbly, and instead cast a silent curse instead of the loud one. I shrug at that.

Not sure if it's been said, but surely other people have noticed the "locket" in Sirius' house from book 5?
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Postby GhostWolfe » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:30 pm UTC

So I dug out all my HP books this morning, I have Philosopher's Stone in my bag, I should be about to polish that off today. I figure if as I'm going to re-read the later books, I might as well read them all.
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Postby LSK » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:38 pm UTC

I went to Borders recently. There are more books speculating on Harry Potter 7 than there are Harry Potter books. This is vaguely disconcerting.

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Postby PatrickRsGhost » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:55 am UTC

Jach wrote:Not sure if it's been said, but surely other people have noticed the "locket" in Sirius' house from book 5?


I think I recall the locket in Book 5. I think it was mentioned when they when cleaning Sirius' house out.
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Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:44 am UTC

Perhaps Voldemort simply forgot that Harry is a Horcrux, due to his soul being shattered (surely that would affect his memory).

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Postby saxything43 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:11 am UTC

I know that Rowling rarely mentions something to have it just disappear into nothingness, and that there are examples of this everywhere(I recently reread OOTP and noticed references to Scrimgeour as head of the Auror office acting suspicious of Tonks and Shacklebolt holy COW Rowling is good) but still. What if the heavy locket they could not open was, in fact, just a locket? (Although I have officailly subscribed to the RAB=Regulus ____ Black theory)
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Postby GhostWolfe » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:54 am UTC

So I cracked Philosopher's Stone this afternoon and started reading (I'm trying to pay more attention this time). I'm 70 pages in and Harry's been told twice that he has his mother's eyes. Now that I've noticed that, I'm going to have to start keeping a tally.
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Postby SamanthaRose » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:46 pm UTC

Xial wrote:I'm pretty sure there is going to be a date rape

edited for link


WHY?! What is the purpose of putting something like that in the book? It does very much well enough WITHOUT that. And it's a KIDS book. Geez that clip you linked to, they have this idiot thinking HAGRID with be the one to commit it...Hagrid is the big lovable guy! And they could never put that in the movie because so many parents would object to their 8 y/o watching a scene like that that the ratings would go down super significantly and they would lose mucho money...Ditto for the books themselves on some accounts....This includes one of MY parents, even though I am def not 8y/o...So it can't be a super important part of the book so WHY put it in there?
And then they have this other idiot on the clip going, Oh, its a 'magical moment'...Wtf?!
And the interveiwer going 'is it going to be anal? or...'
Harry Potter 7 the movie..
Rated 'R' for sexual content and drug references.

I am disgusted.
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bavardage
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Postby bavardage » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:50 pm UTC

Hehe I sure do hope the above was sarcasm :P
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saxything43
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Postby saxything43 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:05 pm UTC

so I watched the video on the date rape link....I'm pretty sure it's just a really bad joke.....
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Jesse
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Postby Jesse » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:08 pm UTC

saxything43 wrote:so I watched the video on the date rape link....I'm pretty sure it's just a really bad joke.....


It is The Onion, all they do is jokes. I would laugh, but I know you are new to the internet.

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Postby Princess Marzipan » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:21 pm UTC

bavardage wrote:Hehe I sure do hope the above was sarcasm :P


I hope it's not. That'd be funnier.
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Postby Vaniver » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:28 pm UTC

CreemyNougat wrote:
bavardage wrote:Hehe I sure do hope the above was sarcasm :P


I hope it's not. That'd be funnier.
Funnier, but also far more tragic.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

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