Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Zohar » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:16 am UTC

Didn't Jinora find Kai while he was within a few kilometers from her previously> Astral projection might take a lot of time, too.

Anyway, E03 spoilers:
Spoiler:
Toph is basically awesome and I love her and the series should have been about her having fun in the swamp instead. However, as usual with this show, they twist its history and don't make a lot of sense. I mean, I guess Toph might have connected with the spirit world and is able to do something for that. But how come she sees Korra attacking her while sitting on a branch? That's not how she used to see, anyway. Still, she's cool.

As for Kuvira, I'm pretty certain she's just a power-hungry dictator. However, she realized one of the best ways to do this is by playing nice. But she doesn't really care about real people's plight, she just wants to conserve her reputation. Her points about the monarchy are valid, but that doesn't change her ultimate intent.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:34 am UTC

Zohar wrote:Didn't Jinora find Kai while he was within a few kilometers from her previously> Astral projection might take a lot of time, too.

Anyway, E03 spoilers:
Spoiler:
Toph is basically awesome and I love her and the series should have been about her having fun in the swamp instead. However, as usual with this show, they twist its history and don't make a lot of sense. I mean, I guess Toph might have connected with the spirit world and is able to do something for that. But how come she sees Korra attacking her while sitting on a branch? That's not how she used to see, anyway. Still, she's cool.

As for Kuvira, I'm pretty certain she's just a power-hungry dictator. However, she realized one of the best ways to do this is by playing nice. But she doesn't really care about real people's plight, she just wants to conserve her reputation. Her points about the monarchy are valid, but that doesn't change her ultimate intent.



Spoiler:
Toph can apparently sense the metal poison in Korra's body, so that would explain it. Although it also seems like she has greatly enhanced her senses in other ways, possibly even into the spirit world to some extent
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Joeldi » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:07 am UTC

Wow, that was a fantastic episode.
Spoiler:
* "I've had a lot of people angry at me for decisions I've made." - That's gotta be a reference to fan complaints about S1 & 2 right?
* Everything Ju Li & Varrick - FINALLY Ju Li gets some charactersation. Varrick's character development was good too. My interpretation is that Varrick's new found conscience is a result of Ju Li's influence (because where else could it have come from?) which leads me to believe that her disgust at Varrick is real, but her loyalty to Kuvira is not.
* Mako's absence - Is /anyone/ missing Mako? I'm certainly not. Bolin eventually grew on me but I've just realised that Mako is and has always been blaaaaah.
* B plot about Asami and her father - Been done a million times before. Not sure whether they can go anywhere interesting with that but I didn't mind its inclusion.
* Mecha Tank Battle - In Book 1 I thought the Mechs were stupid. I was enjoying the early 20th century setting and bringing in mechs really screwed with my suspension of disbeleif and made me complain something along the lines of "I thought this was Avatar, not Ben 10" but that fight scene was good enough for me to appreciate their existence.
* "You could stand to lose a few Ju Lis" "I think you're just weak sir" - Nice
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Angua » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:10 pm UTC

That was such a great episode! I feel like I have no idea how they're going to end this, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how they come to a resolution.
Spoiler:
I don't know whether Zhu Li's pledge to Kuvira was real or not, but either way it was awesome. I agree that I thought that Varrick's conscience was Zhu Li's influence.

Also, Ju Li was awesome with that Mech. I loved the way she used the ropes to increase her kicking power.


edit:
Spoiler:
My alternative theory for Varrick's conscience was the fact that he was working with the spirit vines, and that was influencing him. If so,might have interesting implications.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:30 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Awesome episode. I wonder how much lying these characters are finally getting up to. I hope a lot. I also wonder what sort of horrors we're going to find in these reeducation camps.

I was kind of annoyed when Korra went on a 'but violence is the old me' kick. Yes. It was. And it solved all your problems in the past.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:39 pm UTC

Korra Book 4, Ep 4 was OK, but a bit perfunctory. Ep 3 set up what would happen, then Ep 4 showed us.
Spoiler:
I thought they doing a bit on Aang's traits showing up in his grandkids. We got Jinora being being annoyed when her meditation was interupted, like Aang at the North Pole. Then Ikki slipped out of (and back into) her restraints like Aang with his earth cuffs. But, I don't think Aang was ever as big a dick as Meelo. I think the closest Aang ever got was showing off to the girls on Kyoshi Island.

I liked how Ikki's conversation with the guards played off the alienation from her siblings we saw in Book 2, when she ran away and gave the baby sky bison adorable names. Jinora's line back in Book 1, "I will make no such promises" reminded me of Mai. Ikki's general cheerfulness and strained relationship with her siblings remind me of Ty Lei. Meelo's authoritarian tendencies with the lemurs and new airbenders remind me of Azula. I'm just going to assume that Azula's crew was reincarnated into Tenzin's kids unless one of Azula's crew shows up alive.

Granted, I haven't figured out who Rohan was. Maybe Mai's brother?

Korra had mentioned not feeling connected to Raava. I thought that might come into play to explain why Jinora couldn't find her, since Jinora would be looking for the Korra/Raava mix she was familiar with. But, the tree was able to link them before Korra got the avatar state back. So, I guess Jinora's abilites didn't work because the plot required them not to.

Ep 5
Spoiler:
Joeldi - I don't miss Mako so much that I forgot he wasn't there until you mentioned him.

I think Verrick finding his conscience comes from the fact that for the first time, he's following someone else's ambition instead of his own. That gives him the emotional distance from his actions to really consider the ethical consequences, rather than just be excited by the technological and monetary possibilities.

Izawwlgood wrote:I was kind of annoyed when Korra went on a 'but violence is the old me' kick. Yes. It was. And it solved all your problems in the past.
Well put. Sure, you can learn good ideas from bad guys, but you still have to whoop the bad guy's ass to stop them from implementing their ideas in horrible ways.

Tarrlock and Unalaq were able to manipulate Korra pretty easily. When Zaheer tried it, Korra admitted that there was something valid there, but didn't back down from trying to stop him. Her conversation with Kuvira seems like a step back. Though, it's possible that Korra didn't cotton to what Kuvira said as much as it appeared, and was just acting diplomatic to buy time.

Suyin gave a pretty weak excuse in that flashback for not stepping in. Even if she didn't want absolute power/responsibility, she could have offered to act as an advisor instead of shutting down the idea of offering any help. Then I realized that the flashback takes place soon after Aiwei's betrayal. Su's dealing with the fact that her idea of giving second chances to people with shady pasts just blew up in her face (and whatever neighborhood Aiwei's house was in). Her most trusted advisor was pulling a long con to aid a terrorist group, and may have been covering for others still in her employ.

Her confidence about running Zaofu has got to be pretty shaken. The idea of running something much larger, and depending on more advisors, must be very freightening. But, since articulating this would require Suyin to express the idea that Suyin is flawed, we got the I'm-too-awesomely-humble-to-want-power speech instead.

Kuvira's bit in the flashback about spreading the example of Zaofu sounded a lot like young Sozin in AtLA. I hope one of the recaps starts with the announcer saying, "Not long ago, the people of Zaofu lived in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Earth Empire attacked."
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Thadlerian » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:28 pm UTC

The best part of episode 5:
Spoiler:
Guards! Do the thing!

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Djehutynakht » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:54 am UTC

These were some interesting episodes. There are many directions this can go in.

Spoiler:
Joeldi wrote:* B plot about Asami and her father - Been done a million times before. Not sure whether they can go anywhere interesting with that but I didn't mind its inclusion.


Well, the creators did say they wanted to tie everything up...

Practically, his status as one of the world's greatest inventors could be useful. Working for the Equalists he invented the Mecha-Tank. Now, wanting to redeem himself, he could be a counter-weight to Kuvira's technological prowess (at least in the case of the spirit vine, which Varrick is being forced on).

I think that the Mecha Tanks still are out of place, but they are a bit cool.


Regarding Zhu-Li:

I'm not sure that she's the reason he's suddenly become more moral. I mean, maybe... but I don't think her influence has been growing on him. I mean, perhaps his realization of it is... but it's always been there. He named his private battleship after her several years back. He named a unit of measurement after her. He's reliant on her in extreme ways. I think he's had for a while now a subconscious thing for her that he hasn't entirely yet come to terms with... Zhu Li herself showing her emotions a little more openly in the last episode.

As to whether her "betrayal" was a ploy or not... I'm not sure. If Zhu Li really does just wish to serve the most powerful (or she's mad at Varrick), yeah, probably real. If she is loyal to Varrick... greatest ploy ever.

As for an alternative Varrick explanation... possibly plot. Either that or the dangers of working with spirit energy. My guess is that even though he's connived and warmongered and all those things... he's never come close to actually releasing this much raw destruction on anything in such a blatant way.

I mean, even think back towards the end of S2, trying to kidnap Raiko to force the United Republic to go to war against Unalaq. He didn't try and kill Raiko, the easiest thing. He just tried to kidnap him. Harmful? yes? Deadly... not so blatantly.

Obviously Spirit Vines are analogous to Nuclear Energy/Bombs. Some of its creators were regretful about it later on, and I expect we're going to see the moral issue pop up here.

Isaac Hill wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I was kind of annoyed when Korra went on a 'but violence is the old me' kick. Yes. It was. And it solved all your problems in the past.
Well put. Sure, you can learn good ideas from bad guys, but you still have to whoop the bad guy's ass to stop them from implementing their ideas in horrible ways.

Tarrlock and Unalaq were able to manipulate Korra pretty easily. When Zaheer tried it, Korra admitted that there was something valid there, but didn't back down from trying to stop him. Her conversation with Kuvira seems like a step back. Though, it's possible that Korra didn't cotton to what Kuvira said as much as it appeared, and was just acting diplomatic to buy time.


Korra is physically healed. And she made a lot of mental progress. However, I think she might still be a bit reluctant to engage in physical combat in that she's not entirely confident in herself again. She's had to use violence a lot, but realizing non-violence is also important is... somewhat of a step forward.

The fact that she's talking to them and trying to reason with them is good. It should be the Avatar's job. "Can a reasonable solution be accomplished here without fighting?" And hey, Kuvira did agree to not attack before talking was over. She's reasonable in that sense.

However... well, look. There's some pretty clear analogs to WWII here (and many, many other conflicts, some perhaps more accurate, but WWII is the easiest generalization). Talking first, trying to work things out... is great. Wonderful. Should be pursued. But, in the end... sometimes when you've exhausted the options, it's time to fight. And I think that's how much of this will end up. Talking first good. But then having to resort to fighting.

Isaac Hill wrote:Suyin gave a pretty weak excuse in that flashback for not stepping in. Even if she didn't want absolute power/responsibility, she could have offered to act as an advisor instead of shutting down the idea of offering any help.


Your thoughts about being shaken by Aiwei are actually pretty interesting. Hadn't thought of that. Also the fact that she's always been Toph-like regarding authority. She's happy to run Zaofu. It's her thing. But she never respected the Earth Kingdom and likely wouldn't have been keen on being the force she's so long resented.

But I think she can be a bit shaky.
"Stop the chaos going on in the Earth Kingdom? No, no. I couldn't possibly impose myself".
"Stop Kuvira's conquering the Earth Kingdom, and attacking us? .... yeah, let's go assassinate her".

Kuvira had valid points. She has been heavy handed, conquering and using troops and such... and I don't excuse the reeducation camps. But she had a point in that someone had to pull everything together. Things must not have been too great for the average Ba Sing Se'er, Earth Kingdom Citizen, etc. And Zaofu's modern ideas could've helped as well. (Although in the last episode I did see her turn a bit towards monarchism. Referring to loyalty to "her" instead of "The Earth Empire", and of Earth peoples as "Subjects" instead of "Citizens" or "People").

I think it goes back to what Toph said about balance. I feel Su might have gone a bit too far in one direction... doing nothing. But also that Kuvira has gone way too far in the other... extreme force.

As for Mako, I like Mako. But I feel his place right now is good. (King) Wu needs to learn something about responsibility and looking out for others, and I think Mako's just the guy for that.

Also... one thing I'm a bit disappointed in: I totally would have expected Omashu to put up more of a fight. Maybe it did and we didn't see it, but I totally would think that Omashu would be strong enough to stand up to Kuvira.

It would also have been awesome if there was like a 190 year old Bumi still alive, leading resistance. (or then again... Neutral Jing. That's probably why)

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Joeldi » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:29 am UTC

Not sure if this is worth spoilering, at worst it would spoil that something was not shown in the episode, but I'll be polite.

Spoiler:
[quote=Djehutynakht]Also... one thing I'm a bit disappointed in: I totally would have expected Omashu to put up more of a fight. Maybe it did and we didn't see it, but I totally would think that Omashu would be strong enough to stand up to Kuvira.

It would also have been awesome if there was like a 190 year old Bumi still alive, leading resistance. (or then again... Neutral Jing. That's probably why)[/quote]

I'd say that Bumi would have a chosen a very competent successor with similar beliefs and they will have chosen the same path Bumi would have - Immediately sign up to Kuvira's empire, but maintain the Omashu citizen's loyalty while governing from the shadows.

In fact I'm writing an overdone scene in my head.
Kuvira loyalists drag a scallywag into a room before a Kuviran general and a group of Omashu guards.
General: Ahh, this is the spy we caught stealing documents from the governor's office. She is to be flogged!
The guards all look to the second guard from the left who subtly shakes her head. Two guards step forward and take the prisoner into the next room where she's shown pretending to scream while the guards share of plate of tea and biscuits.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:06 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:
Spoiler:
I'd say that Bumi would have a chosen a very competent successor with similar beliefs and they will have chosen the same path Bumi would have - Immediately sign up to Kuvira's empire, but maintain the Omashu citizen's loyalty while governing from the shadows.



Spoiler:
Well, you know, Avatar Kyoshi lived to be like... 230. Bumi was in absolutely spectacular health at the age of 112. I'd totally expect him to still be alive right now.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby rath358 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:06 pm UTC

Episode 6:
Spoiler:
What the hell happened there? The structuring of the plot led me to expect that Korra would lose, but she just got destroyed.
And then Kuvira's eyes glowed? WTH is happening?! Apparently it was dark Korra? I just assumed, since Kuvira was on the ground it was her.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Zohar » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:39 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure Korra had another vision of herself. Anyway, disappointing episode. Korra is such a bad avatar.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:23 am UTC

K4.6
Spoiler:
Zohar wrote:I'm pretty sure Korra had another vision of herself. Anyway, disappointing episode. Korra is such a bad avatar.
I think Korra being a bad Avatar is kind of the point. So far, being the Avatar has cost Korra a normal childhood, almost gotten her violently killed on several occasions, caused her to kill her own uncle in self defense, and put her in a wheelchair. It's not surprising that she's finding it hard to keep going.

At first, I thought Korra's talk with Kuvira last episode was a step back towards her being easy to manipulate. Now, I agree with Dj's point about Korra being afraid of getting hurt again.

Toph said that in her time as police chief that she learned that there's always another bad guy. Korra seems to have learned the same thing. Sure, she could crush Kuvira with a rock, but there'd just be some other threat to her life in a little while; Korra doesn't know this is the last season. I think that's why Korra hallucinated her Avatar state face on Kuvira's head. Korra's problem isn't Kuvira; Korra's problem is that she's the Avatar.

Her fight with Kuvira reminds me of that BtVS episode where Buffy asks Spike how he managed to kill two Slayers. Spike's answer is that after fighting for so long, Slayers develop a death wish so they can stop.

People were complaining about the reset button at the end of Book 1. This is what happens when you don't push it. That's not to say this is a bad season. It's just less of an action-packed thrill ride than it would be without emotional consequences.

If Verrick weren't so damned amusing, this show would be pretty depressing.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Zohar » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:09 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I just don't find it to be entertaining story. I watch it, I hope there's some sort of payoff, maybe we'll get to see more of Toph, but it's not very good. Korra keeps fighting as stupidly as ever - just throwing elements at her opponent. Kuvira isn't that much better but at least she's trying to do stuff with her metal. Did Korra forget she can metal bend too, and apparently in some aspects better than Suyin? Anyway she doesn't need to kill Kuvira. She could have brought some water, for instance, and locked Kuvira in a cage of ice - she doesn't have fire breath, without moving she wouldn't be able to escape. But no, let's not try to think a moment more, let's just throw rocks at her.

And there's still zero explanation of how the avatar state can give her more power, if she doesn't have any past avatars she can connect with, which is just frustrating compared to the rigorous nature of the ATLA.

As for not pushing the reset button - I don't mind about that. Have her character change. Have her be afraid or worried or not want to fight. But develop her character, don't keep her acting as dumb as she used to be.

Oh, and I find it ridiculous Suyin could use earthbending to see "Kuvira" sleeping in her room and didn't happen to catch the massive forces ambushing them from all sides.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:22 pm UTC

My impression was the avatar state wasn't powerful for being connected to the past lives, but because it was something more primal and connected to the spirit world than the individual was. As for this last episode;
Spoiler:
Feh. What a surprise, Korra tries punching it a lot and that doesn't work. At the very least we're seeing how politics obfuscate what is right and wrong, since we still have no idea what's really going on with the nations that join up under Kuvira.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby ArgonV » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:11 pm UTC

When Varrick
Spoiler:
was talking about giant-spirit-Unalaq, I was expecting a ruse; the spirit vines would not just explode, instead they would give Korra some kind of energy infusion. So far, she's been quite disappointing, but that might be the point.

Also, where are Asami and Mako?

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Angua » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:28 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I must say, I was impressed that Varrick was going to sacrifice himself [and Bolin] for the cause!

Also, don't think Zhu Li will help them make the weapon, but she'll probably be sabotaging it in the background. After all,she was the one who pointed out that Varrick has a conscience.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:38 am UTC

The Rift part 3 is out. It's the only comic trilogy I've been fully satisfied with. The Promise dragged in the middle and I didn't like how the Search resolved. If you haven't read it yet, I'd advise against looking at the back cover. I shows a preview of the climax that you might prefer to be surprised by.

K4.6
Spoiler:
Something confuses me about Verrick's plot. At the end, he tells Bolin, "You did the thing", where doing the thing seems to mean doing whatever Verrick requires without being explicitly told. So, did Verrick plan on Bolin saving them? If not, did he come up with the suicide plan before or after insisting Bolin assist him?


Zohar - I see your point about the lack of payoff. All the world leaders, the Avatar, many of Kuvira's subjects, and two of her confidants all know Kuvira must be stopped. So far, they haven't even slowed her down. They can't defeat her before the end of the season, but you'd think they could limit her progress to two steps forward, one step back. We've seen Korra make some progress daling with her physical and emotional problems, but all that's let her do is get beat up by increasingly powerful opponents. Maybe this season will be better for binge-watching, so it doesn't take two months to see some progress.

Izawwlgood - I'm hoping Bolin's line about not checking up on the villages they've helped was foreshadowing, and that Bolin and Verrick will stop by one of them on their way back to Republic City. At least, I'm assuming everyones headed to Republic City since that's where Korra's allies and the spirit vines Kuvira needs are.

Considering these points together has given me a new appreciation for AtLA's villge of the week episodes, especially the one with Haru and the coal. We got to see the effects of the Fire Nation occupation and oppression. But, we also got to see the good guys score a solid win while not diminishing the threat posed by the main villian.

Having Kuvira face major setbacks may not fit her character arc. She seems to be the anti-Korra. They both started as gifted, strong-willed people growing up in isolated communities whose first real experience with the outside world was when they set out to save it. While Korra's near constant brushes with death and failure have left her an emotional wreck, Kuvira's seemingly unimpeded success has swelled her ego, making her think she's infallible. Maybe "Balance" means getting your ass handed to you often enough to keep you humble, but not so much that you get PTSD.

Isaac Hill wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I was kind of annoyed when Korra went on a 'but violence is the old me' kick. Yes. It was. And it solved all your problems in the past.
Well put. Sure, you can learn good ideas from bad guys, but you still have to whoop the bad guy's ass to stop them from implementing their ideas in horrible ways.
Thinking back on this, I'm not so sure. Korra getting in large apocolyptic battles every few months has been effective at solving the world's problems, but it's been hell on Korra. Remember P'li's backstory about being used as a living weapon? That's basically what's happened to Korra. Sure, she grew up with her parents, and many of the people training her want what's best for her. But, Korra still gets her first metal-bending teacher demanding that she wipe out the lady who saved her dad and an entire army.

Speaking of Suyin being terrible, when Korra refuses to wipe out Kuvira's forces, Suyin tries to take out just Kuvira, saying that many of Kuvira's forces are conscripts, and won't fight without their Kuvira making them. So, Suyin was not only OK with the conscripts being wiped out, she was OK with putting that on Korra's conscience.


When Book 1 ended with Korra having all 4 elements and the Avatar State, there were some complaints that she'd be too formidable an opponent for later villians to pose a plausible threat. The later books seem to be the creator's attempts at writing themselves out of that corner. Book 2 introduced Vaatu to ramp the villian up to Korra's level. Book 3 brought Korra down for the final battle with poison. Book 4's bringing Korra down with psychological problems.


Re other comments:
Asami was in Republic City last episode. Mako is presumably still with Prince Wu. I think they're also in Republic City, since Wu would likely be captured by Kuvira's forces if he entered Earth Empire territory.

Korra just learned to slowly, and with much concentration, bend small amounts of metal out of her body. That's not going to do much when a much more experienced metal bender is whipping multiple blades at you.

Korra went to Kuvira to talk about getting Suyin released, not to fight. Bringing enough water to be a threat would be (correctly) seen as a second act of aggression, following what looks like an assassination attempt. That's not going to lead to a peaceful reconcilliation.

I think the Avatar State lets Korra use more of Raava's power. Unalaq got a lot of power from Vaatu without any past lives to connect with.

Korra's ineptitude comes from two things. First, she's new at this whole talking through your problems thing; she's not going to be good at it. Second, the years of beating, uncle-killing, and poisoning have left her pretty traumatized. She's not able to fight at the top of her game right now. Character development isn't just about watching characters overcome their problems. It's also about them developing new ones.

Toph used her earth sense constantly; I don't think her daughters do. They only seem to use it when they stomp. In Book 1, Lin even had retractable soles in her boots so she could "see" better. I didn't notice Suyin's feet. It seems like she got one good "look" to check that there was only 1 body in the tent, then didn't use the ability again. Sure, she saw lots of troops and mechs. It's an army camp; that's to be expected. I'm more surprised that she thought a tunnel was a good way to sneak up on earth benders.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Joeldi » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:42 am UTC

Spoiler:
So the Nazi parallels have been cemented with the concept of concentration camps. I wonder if that's just a bit overdone.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Yubtzock » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:57 am UTC

Was that last scene of ep. 7
Spoiler:
an Avatar's jab at (Cameron's) Avatar?

I mean the airships threateningly sitting around the spirit tree.


LoK being in the final season ends up looking pretty okay over all. I don't expect much at that point for the rest of the season, but it's kinda fine. I hope they will bring something that will tie everything together, but I'm sceptical and predict something along the lines of what we got in previous seasons. So, a season wrap up with villain defeated and shelved, some kinda lesson, everyone happy, Korra kinda moody and maybe just maybe, finally behaving like we expect an Avatar would behave. It might also be that authors want to make her character stay the way she is and just fit the situation where it just works. Don't get me wrong, I like Korra as an Avatar that isn't exactly like Aang in AtLA, but you can only facepalm so much at some decisions she makes.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:26 pm UTC

K4.8
Spoiler:
Dammit, show, what the hell was that crap? I mean, I read this, so I know why it happened, but I'm still not happy about it.

Varrick's descriptions of actual events, like Vaatu the evil kite, or the airbending training of fruit dodging and balancing on sticks, was amusing, but embellishing Bolin into everything got boring. I was more entertained by everyone busting Mako's chops. Do you understand? The love triangle crap was more interesting than Verrick! Down is up, black is white, dogs and cats, living together! Everything I know is wrong!

It wouldn't have been so bad if any of these flashbacks mattered. Nobody seemed to learn much of anything from them. Verrick's story was just him BSing. Korra's was just her recapping why she's unhappy. Wu just learned that Mako blew it with the same women who shot him down.

Instead of Mako's love life, they could have told the story of Mako's family living in poverty in the outer ring of Ba Sing Se. They have enough clips of that crowded apartment and sketchy fruit cart to fill a segment. Then, Wu could have learned what his poorest subject endure and resolved to be a better leader. I figure that's why they have him staying with Mako's family anyway, so they might as well check that box with the clip show and leave the rest of the season for stuff that requires new footage.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Thadlerian » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:57 am UTC

K 4.10: An excellent fight scene, but not much else.
Spoiler:
Had expected some kind of sacrifice, but everything just wrapped up neatly for all the good guys.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Angua » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:11 am UTC

Spoiler:
So that's what they needed Zaofu's shells for.

Kuvira has finally and definitively shown that she's willing to sacrifice anything for power. I'm guessing Batar Jr's going to spill all now, assuming he survived.

Also, I loved ZhuLi and Varrick's reunion.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Joeldi » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:11 am UTC

Wow, that episode (Kuvira's Gambit) was exceptional. An early thought was
Spoiler:
Not again! Mechs that big are physically impossible
but then I realised Not WIth Metalbending!
Also really really loved
Spoiler:
Bataar's Interrogation, and the rather original way they broke him.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Ryom » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:42 am UTC

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:35 am UTC

K4.11
Spoiler:
Before watching this episode, Book 4 was reminding me of one of the things that bugged me about Book 1. There was so little of Republic City shown, that it was hard for me to care much about what happened to it. Then, those evacuation montages showed more of Republic City than we'd seen in the entire show so far.

I dug the cameos from Book 1 during Wu's speech. There was the guy who asked Korra for a fish running off with the cop who told Korra she couldn't fish. There were the Wolfbats eating noodles. I think the other group was the radio salesman and spectators from Korra's first fight with the Triple Threats. Wu's speech was pretty good, too. It was an in-character way for him to step up and be useful.

The giant grey/silver mech with the cannon on its right arm reminds me of Megatron. I doubt Asami, Verrick, and Zhu Li have enough time to make an Optimus Prime.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby rath358 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:47 am UTC

It's over. I couldn't have asked for a better ending. Now excuse me, I have to go cry.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Angua » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:43 pm UTC

That was great! I wish the entire series had been as good as the last season.

Also, the outfits all the girls (Korra, Asami and ZhuLi) in the last bit were beautifully done.

Spoiler:
I loved that Bolin has really come in to his own towards the end. Also, I loved that lava weapon he was using - seeing him and Mako fighting together using that made me realise that obviously Bolin was always destined to be a lava-bender.

Korra and Asami at the end was a great touch. I didn't think that they'd actually go down that route.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:23 am UTC

Combat wise, it felt a little anti-climactic, barring the awesome DBZ like bit with Korra, but truthfully, I think that's a good development.

Spoiler:
Korra has shown us all that she's an extremely powerful bender and Avatar, so, as quick as it was, the fact that she solved the day via talking it out and empathizing makes me really happy. Things moved pretty quickly and the finale left more open than it closed, but we were given a really hopeful and positive conclusion that, like TLA, ended on a note of romance and promise of good things to come.


There were a lot of things I would have liked to see explored, and I'm sad as shit to see it all end, but man, what a great ride.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Diadem » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:10 pm UTC

That was an awesome ending. I am impressed.

Also:
Spoiler:
I don't know if that was intentional or not, but now i'm definitely shipping Korra and Asami.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:26 pm UTC

Uh, yeah, it's canon actually according to various interviews.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Angua » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:47 pm UTC

How could that ship not be intentional?
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:10 pm UTC

If anything I'm disappointing they weren't more blunt about it, and ended the series with them actually kissing.

Spoiler:
I wonder a bit, however, at the notion that Korra took the whole Kuvera thing and decided she needed a vacation, when half of why Kuvera got up to shinnanigans was because Korra was AWOL, so to speak.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Prefanity » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:50 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:If anything I'm disappointing they weren't more blunt about it, and ended the series with them actually kissing.


I don't think there's enough in-universe build up for that to work. As it stands, I don't think there's enough build up toward them even being a couple. They're friends, even great friends, but reading the final scene as a couple going off into the sunset relies, in part, on how it mimics the ending of the previous show. Now, my guess is that this reading is the correct one, but that it doesn't come across in the writing encapsulates my big complaint about both Avatar shows—character development is often handled too subtly or not at all.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:25 am UTC

I had similar thought to Izawwlgood...
Spoiler:
Did Korra and Asami just take off for a months long vacation without telling anyone? Korra just did this a little bit ago in Ep 2. It took years for Kuvira to consolidate enough power to be a threat, so I doubt the power vacuum will be enough to hurt society in a couple months. It's just really inconsiderate.

Roku told Aang "being the Avatar doesn't hurt your chances with the ladies". I guess he was right. Now that I think of it, we know Aang married Katara, Roku married that woman in "The Avatar and the Firelord", and Koruk's SO was a woman who lost her face to Koh. Did we ever see who Yangchen or Kyoshi ended up with? Maybe it's not just that Korra likes women, but Raava does.

Several episodes ago, Wu mentioned a plan involving choreographed badger moles and was ignored. Maybe they should have listened then. At least we know that terrible singing will always make badger moles lead you through a...SECRET TUNNELLLLLL, SECRET TUNNELLLL.

I liked the minor moment of character growth of Meelo using his legs to slow him down while carrying Tenzin instead of a fart.

I've read fans saying that Aang and Korra were the ideal Avatars for each others' times. Korra's nemeses all had valid points, and possibly could have been reasoned with. Ozai just needed his ass kicked. I can see that, but don't think it was intentional. It's just that the writers tried to make Korra very unlike Aang, and created foes to challenge each character, so it works out that each Avatar had traits that would have been useful against in the other's situation.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Zohar » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:33 am UTC

I mean, it was OK?

There are two huge flaws in Korra. The first is the pacing, which was always just way too fast. And I understand they had some issues in the first season, but there isn't much of an excuse in the following ones. The second, is choosing to have the show in a technological direction. It just made everything completely unbelievable and unrealistic. Need to design a completely new weapons system in two weeks? Sure, no problem! And that's just the beginning of the problems this creates, which are especially glaring in the last book, since the enemy's power was technological.

As for the episode, I guess it was fine. I liked the ending. I liked the relationships they created between some of the characters. I kind of wish Korra had a more substantial choice than what she did. In TLA, it was pretty obvious the good guys will win, but it was unsure at what personal cost to Aang. In Korra, I never felt there was a particular conflict there. Just punch things, until
Spoiler:
they're in the spirit world and Kuvira can't punch back


There should have been a lot more
Spoiler:
Toph
because she was the absolute best character on the show.

Also, in the end,
Spoiler:
Do you Varrick of Southern water tribe, with a complete noble lineage which I'm going to quote now, take this woman who isn't worthy of any particular mention other than her name? Book of balance indeed.


I'm just completely unsatisfied by how this series turned out. I really wish they'd done something completely different, or nothing at all. Also I still have no idea why Korra in avatar state is stronger than regular Korra. Avatar state is supposed to give the avatar all the strengths of the previous avatars, and Korra has none. It just doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:13 am UTC

Zohar wrote:In Korra, I never felt there was a particular conflict there. Just punch things, until
And in each season we see how that's taking a toll on Korra, which is why, despite it being rather brief, I enjoyed that Korra did something totally different to save the day.

If anything, about Toph, I felt they pulled the teeth out of her significantly. We see that she's rather flawed and withdrawn, and that her presence isn't really needed in this world other than as a reminder to the past. She had some great line, that's a kind of prominent point in the whole series, about how it's really just one long list of conflicts, and old people getting involved, irrespective of 'right or wrong', isn't really the best course of action. That's why Iroh didn't step in and fight Ozai, etc.

I still want to know what happened to Sokka. And Suki. But, I suppose that's sort of the shtick - it's a new generation, and life moves on.

Zohar wrote:Also I still have no idea why Korra in avatar state is stronger than regular Korra. Avatar state is supposed to give the avatar all the strengths of the previous avatars, and Korra has none. It just doesn't make any sense.
Eh, my sense was that A ) the connection to the Avatar state had less to do with the past lives, and more to do with Raava, and B ) those lives are in the spirit world, I guess, so beating up Raava isn't going to destroy them, just disconnect them. I dunno, it wasn't really addressed but I don't think it's entirely absurd.

The Avatar is also the bridge to the spirit world, but in this time period, bridges to the spirit world, and indeed, corporeal spirits chilling like villains in our world, are actually pretty common place.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Joeldi » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:34 am UTC

I feel quite similar to Zohar, the show was ultimately disappointing, but I am not sorry it exists. It was not as good as TLA, but it was still a damn good show. The writing could be very very sloppy, but the artwork, the animation, and a lot of the humour were very impressive, not to mention the powerful yet subtle feminist message (certain stuff with Zhu Li notwithstanding).
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Mat » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:21 pm UTC

I loved the ending. The only time I thought the writing was bad was the first half of season 2, where they rushed over
Spoiler:
the civil war
and the motivations of the main characters just made no sense.

I agree there is a lot about the technology and the wider world that didn't make sense, but I could forgive it because the storytelling was so engaging and the rules of the universe were still consistent.

Spoiler:
To the point where the attacks against the collosus actually targeted logical weaknesses, which would have worked if it wasn't for the thing being ridiculously well built (Bataar Jr was so unappreciated!)


I think TLA used technology more effectively though.
Spoiler:
The drill built to break into Ba Sing Se comes to mind, which was just as terrifying as the collosus but fit the avatar universe better.


A few things that bugged me:
Spoiler:
  • Prince Wu casually proposing overhauling the form of government in the Earth Kingdom
  • The last minute upgrades to the hummingbird mechs
  • The lack of fire nation in the entire series
  • The way the spirit portal opening was downplayed in season 3, with no real change resulting from it
  • Korra's exposition of what drove Kuvira didn't really work for me. We didn't see enough of her character earlier in the season to be able to relate to her.
  • Mako has had nothing to do for most of the series, and the detective storyline went nowhere.
  • Tenzen was pretty absent this season as well, and the other world leaders generally appeared incompetent.
  • They never really portrayed any loss to republic city other than damage to the buildings. Uh... I sure hope everyone was evacuated safely...? Skipping over the rebuilding/repopulation of republic city to the extravagant wedding was quite unfortunate.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Thadlerian » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:48 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:If anything I'm disappointing they weren't more blunt about it, and ended the series with them actually kissing.

I agree. The show is blunt about nearly every character relation. Then, for the one single event that needed bluntness, they go for the subtlety/ambiguity that has been sorely missing in so many previous instances. They could have made a solid political statement that would have been meaningful for a lot of fans, but backed down (again) in the last minute to try to satisfy both sides: Shippers (whose ranks I eventually joined) can say that Korra and Asami are obviously a couple, non-shippers (and homophobes) can say they're obviously just intimate friends.

I'm very happy about how progressive the show has been, in comparison to most other mainstream media, with powerful, non-sexualized, plot-driving female characters, but this ending was very disappointing, ultimately surrendering to a conservative taboo that really should not exist in our modern world.

For me, it shows how Legend of Korra never became more than a beautiful assembly of individual good ideas - it shows the failure of LoK to go all the way with what they have, and it makes me wonder if the great stuff of the series (the episodes "And the winner is...", "Skeletons in the closet", "Rebel Spirit", "Beginnings part 1", "A new spiritual age", significant parts of Season 3 and "Beyond the wilds") happened just as much by accident as by talent.

Zohar wrote:Also, in the end,
Spoiler:
Do you Varrick of Southern water tribe, with a complete noble lineage which I'm going to quote now, take this woman who isn't worthy of any particular mention other than her name? Book of balance indeed.


Yeah, that bothered me as well. I did, overall, like the Zhu Li and Varrick sequences, although the "do the thing" joke was getting a bit overused by the end. Anyway, they can't top "Guards! Do the thing!" from earlier in the season.


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