Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:14 pm UTC

Why do you say 'significantly less'? This episode made it seem as though it was almost exactly 10,000 years ago.

Diadem wrote:If bending is genetic, the 'bending' gene for a particular element can be passed on without every descendant of benders necessarily getting it. So at first glance that makes sense. But if bending is genetic, it should be far more common. Bending offers a very clear survival benefit, so if it's genetic its gene should be pretty universal by now. And if it's genetic, it's unclear how the turtles could have given humans bending. And finally, bending being genetic does not explain why no one (except the avatar) can bend several elements.
I don't think bending should be universal by now; we see plenty of non-benders succeeding admirably in the world. We also see that it's not exactly Mendelian; Air Nomads for example were all benders, while the Earth Kingdom seemed to be mostly non-benders. I think there's this notion that civilization 'diminishes' spirituality, which diminishes bending.

Diadem wrote:Where did all the lion turtles go?
Elsewhere. Remember, in TLA, some people are aware of their existence, but they're rarer than Dragons.

Re: Energy Bending: The Lion Turtle told Aang 'In the beginning WE bent not the elements...', and I took that to mean 'Us Lion Turtles are stuff before you humans'. But yeah! How'd the humans come into agreement to live on the Lionturtles backs? That'd be an interesting story.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:09 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Why do you say 'significantly less'? This episode made it seem as though it was almost exactly 10,000 years ago.

I don't think bending should be universal by now; we see plenty of non-benders succeeding admirably in the world. We also see that it's not exactly Mendelian; Air Nomads for example were all benders, while the Earth Kingdom seemed to be mostly non-benders. I think there's this notion that civilization 'diminishes' spirituality, which diminishes bending.

Elsewhere. Remember, in TLA, some people are aware of their existence, but they're rarer than Dragons.

Re: Energy Bending: The Lion Turtle told Aang 'In the beginning WE bent not the elements...', and I took that to mean 'Us Lion Turtles are stuff before you humans'. But yeah! How'd the humans come into agreement to live on the Lionturtles backs? That'd be an interesting story.



I think it was pretty much 10,000 years ago.
Spoiler:
I think Korra possibly is fighting the next Harmonic Convergence. Not sure.


Anyways... we do know that the Air Nomad...monks were all pretty much benders, really. However, I would assume there was more to the culture than just the Temples (and they were called "Nomads"... although we don't explicitly see any travelling regularly). Really, we know almost nothing about Air nation culture.

In modern day, though, we seem to be seeing some sort of revival of it. Of course, there are benders... Tenzin, children and Korra. However, we also see that the Air culture has gained some sort of new following.... in TLA we saw some genuine inhabitants of old air ruins even though they weren't explicitly following traditional Air Culture. I'm assuming those still exist. Though I find it funny that although it appears there are some very sincere/somber adoptees of air culture (Tenzin has some on his island), as we saw earlier in the series, many are in a way somewhat Airbender fanboys/girls. I really do find the "rebirth" of this culture very interesting.


I think it was mentioned somewhere that Aang's lion turtle was the last one left. I'm not sure if that's true in the sense that the others have died off, or just that they've disappeared and people therefore think they've died or such.

I'm not sure they hunt spirits in the wild so much as the wild has non-spirit flora and fauna, which are collected and hunted, and spirits just happen to reside there, and some need defense against.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:31 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Why do you say 'significantly less'? This episode made it seem as though it was almost exactly 10,000 years ago.

Yes, the parts with Wan were exactly 10,000 years ago. But I was saying it takes significantly less than 10,000 years for every human on the planet to have the same ancestors. On our world the most common recent ancestor of every human alive is probably only a few thousand years back, and the avatar world seems to have significantly more travel between places than ours had for most of our history.

Izawwlgood wrote:
Diadem wrote:If bending is genetic, the 'bending' gene for a particular element can be passed on without every descendant of benders necessarily getting it. So at first glance that makes sense. But if bending is genetic, it should be far more common. Bending offers a very clear survival benefit, so if it's genetic its gene should be pretty universal by now. And if it's genetic, it's unclear how the turtles could have given humans bending. And finally, bending being genetic does not explain why no one (except the avatar) can bend several elements.
I don't think bending should be universal by now; we see plenty of non-benders succeeding admirably in the world.

Yeah but that's not how evolution works. A trait doesn't have to be advantageous to every single individual at every point in time. As long as it gives, on average, a survival bonus (or more precise a fitness bonus), its incidence will increase over time. And the percentage of people with that trait will keep increasing, either until an equilibrium is reached where additional people having that trait no longer gives any benefit, or until everybody has it. Bending gives you an obvious edge in fighting of predators or surviving in harsh conditions. It also seems to give a significant social status. If it's genetic, after 10,000 years, it certainly shouldn't be as rare as it is now, and in fact should be pretty universal.

Unless there are some serious drawbacks to being able to bend. Perhaps benders are significantly less fertile, or perhaps they live shorter lives. It's possible, though we don't see anything like that in the series.

Anyway, my whole point was: Approaching this from a genetic point of view is slightly silly. Bending isn't genetic, it's magic.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:33 am UTC

Me being a total nerd, I was just reading an interview, and came across a relevant passage to our recent discussion from the creator's viewpoint:

(RM = interviewer, BK and MDD are the creators)

RM: Okay, next I know I'm going really left brained and you can call me a geek because I am, but in "The Fortuneteller" you have a pair of twins...kids...one is an earthbender and one isn't. So is bending genetic, or is it some sort of spiritual thing? How does it work?

BK: Mike and I just got new puppies. They're brothers. They have the same mother and father. Same litter. Mike's dog can just sit in a crate and be happy as a clam. My dog just loses all control...everything. Who knows why these things happen? They're beyond our full understanding.

MDD: Yeah, Katara's mom and dad weren't benders. Maybe it's a recessive gene. I've always seen it as more spiritual connections, though. A little bit mysterious...

BK: I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as non-bending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors.

***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and practice. He reiterated a connection to the spiritual energies is the underlying basis. How it manifests is based on upbringing and experience.

RM: So could Teo's people perhaps grow into the airbenders of the future?

BK: I think Teo's people are more refugees. They probably came together because they're not benders and really had no way to defend themselves. Then fell under this nutty guy who has his own skill and aura of authority. I don't think it's an ethnic group of non-benders, rather they were all just escaping the disasters of war.

MDD: Yeah, I think if you've gone through puberty and not found any bending abilities, you're probably not going to find them. I think it manifests early.

BK: Although that would make a pretty outrageous story. Some 80 year old guy...

MDD: "Wow, I never knew!"

BK: ...fire starts shooting out...

RM: I was just curious if the airbenders could just come back from the general population rather than necessarily having to come back through Aang or anyone else who came from the airbending lineage.

MDD: Aang is the last Airbender, so I don't think it's possible for Airbending to spontaneously develop in the general population.



http://www.avatarspirit.net/interviews.php?id=19


So there you have it... more spiritual than genetic, I think, but somewhat of a mystery...

What does perplex me though is if ancestry is not a pre-req for bending, why exactly couldn't Airbenders pop up from anywhere?

Maybe it's just "Because Aang is the last Airbender and we're sticking to that storyline! It's dramatic."


Hm... I do have to wonder though.... with relation to bending:

Spoiler:
It's implied that the Lion Turtles used energy-bending to bestow and rescind an element from a bender... whether humans could energy-bend themselves before Wan's time I have no idea. But the Lion Turtles were energy-bending.

So... now that the Avatar, in general, has Energybending, and the power of the 4 elements... that makes me wonder.

...if the Avatar can rescind bending power (like the Lion turtles and as we saw with Aang) and restore it (with Korra... although because we're not quite sure how Amon did it we don't know exactly what she's doing. She could simply be unblocking something)... I'm wondering...

Could an Energybending Avatar simply bestow the power of bending on people?

Like could Korra just make 500 new Airbenders out of sheer will? The evidence, I think, argues she might.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:On our world the most common recent ancestor of every human alive is probably only a few thousand years back, and the avatar world seems to have significantly more travel between places than ours had for most of our history.
Not quite.
Diadem wrote:Yeah but that's not how evolution works...If it's genetic, after 10,000 years, it certainly shouldn't be as rare as it is now, and in fact should be pretty universal.
Bending is inherited, sort of, but I said it wasn't Mendelian. As pointed out, it's spiritual. Aang and Katara, two extraordinarily powerful benders, had Bumi, a non-bender. Toph was born to non-benders (I think, anyway). This is one of those examples of 'stop applying real world science', because it's a lesson in futility. Bending also gives an advantage in fighting, sort of, but by that logic, why isn't the world inhabited solely by combat masters, why do non-benders exist at all? That was part of what made TLA so wonderful; the world was complete, breathing, made of benders and non-benders alike. That was part of what made Korra an interesting story; we got to see what life was like for non-benders living in a world psuedodominated by benders.

So, yeah, I agree, looking at it in terms of inheritance and MRCAs is silly.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Xeio » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:57 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Of course, in 10 000years, basically everyone is going to be descended from benders and non-benders.
It took me far longer than it should have to wonder what Futurama had to do with this discussion.

And when Bender got descendants.

Slightly more on-topic, I'm a bit sad that apparently nick only has the 5 most recent episodes up on its site. I wasn't really looking forward to Korra, and I'm still skeptical, but now I can't even really check it out easily.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:33 pm UTC

I bought two episodes on my Xbox for 2 bucks a piece. I feel silly paying for a show that's freely available, but I really dug those two episodes.

Also, somewhat related, the sound the spirit of chaos made when he shot that purple beam... I got chills.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Isaac Hill » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:02 pm UTC

Temperment/personality seem to play a pretty big role in determning whether someone's a bender or not. Spoilers through A:tLA Book 3:
Spoiler:
I'm mainly thinking of Zuko losing his bending when he started getting over the rage that'd been fueling him before. He had to learn a new version of fire bending compatible with his new outlook. We also saw Aang being unable to earth bend until he learned to be more assertive. And I think original Iroh said Zuko's inability to throw lightning was due to his internal conflicts.

Iroh said each elemental nation had different characteristics when explaining to Zuko that he should try to learn from all of them. I'd guess that to be a bender, someone would have to have personaility traits compatible with the element(s) of their heritage.

Xeio: I've seen the Korra: Book 1 DVD set at Walmart pretty cheap, and Amazon has it for $15 US. With that, and what's available at the Nick site now, you'd only miss the first few episodes of Book 2, and those weren't the greatest ones anyway.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Thadlerian » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:08 pm UTC

New episode, folks, new episode.

Kind of a letdown since the previous, which was very good. Less stuff is happening, more moving around with plot pieces.

What to spoiler, what not to? Putting it all inside, just to be sure:
Spoiler:
More people are added to the "for some reason not taking Mako seriously" list, as it seems to be required for that sub-plot to function.

Good to see Jinora's plot progressing, though it feels a little heavy-handed, and I don't believe in all of her lines or actions.

Increased indication of a schism between Unalaq and his kids, although as with the Jinora part, I had hoped for something more subtle. I am a great fan of the Reddit theory that Eska and Desna have been trained to be emotionless by Unalaq out of pure parental concern, to protect them from Koh (the face stealer) - this could have allowed for some solid character development with Bolin and with their rebellion against their father, but the sub-plot right now just feels too unsubtle for that.

If I were to say something explicitly good about the latest episode, it's that I like how they're consistently writing Tenzin as a tragic character. His understanding of the spirit world was his pride, his final opportunity to shine, and now he failed here as well. If only the other characters had been written with such skill.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby mr-mitch » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:57 am UTC

Spoiler:
Iroh!

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Thadlerian » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:29 pm UTC

Without spoilers next time, please.

But anyway, the show is back to being good. Surprisingly dark episode - genuine threats and frightening imagery. And weird.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby PeteP » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:10 pm UTC

mr-mitch wrote:
Spoiler:
Iroh
!

Spoiler:
First I thought "Does Legend of Korra have a good flashbackscene with Iroh? Do I have to watch it now?" Then I remembered that it just has an Iroh named after the Avatar Iroh.:/

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby mr-mitch » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:52 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:
Spoiler:
Iroh
!

Spoiler:
First I thought "Does Legend of Korra have a good flashbackscene with Iroh? Do I have to watch it now?" Then I remembered that it just has an Iroh named after the Avatar Iroh.:/


You'll have to watch it. I think you'll be happy.

Although that ending. That ending hurt my heart.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:00 am UTC

I think the last two episodes were done very well. I mean it's not the Wan story of creation masterful (they had to seriously do those episodes) but still pretty awesome nonetheless.

And now to spoiler just in case:

Spoiler:
With regards to the Mako subplot, I think it is coming along pretty decently. It's still this whole mystery war profiteering thing. I do like that Varrick is still a crazy eccentric rich guy in addition to his scheming and plotting. I mean, let's be honest, after that Platypus scene... But it's great to know that he's still, you know, Varrick, even if he is now plotting. I'm kind of hoping he comes to a more benevolent end than simple prison, though it'll require some work on his part.

Bit ashamed of Lin Beifong for going blindly with this. I know the law's her prerogative and such, and she's mostly by the book (her whole leaving the force thing spells a bit higher motive) but I'd expect her to be at least a little tiny bit... understanding? Cognizant? More than just an empty hardline police chief character? She knows Mako's and maybe it'd be fine if she had started out this way, but after what we saw of her last book... I'm waiting for more of her.

I do find the Twins' coming along very interesting too. Nice to hear Desna actually... step up a bit? He was a bit of the neglected twin with the Bolin-Eska thing. I think this scene could start to show at least a bit of humanization. The twins' have really ever only known one another, and their father, so I'm thinking this moment might have been a bit turning point for them.

Jinora Subplot. I am pleased. Very very pleased.

However, I do agree with a bit of the criticism. I think they do need to flesh her out a bit more, because I find her one of my most favorite characters of the series. She needs to be a bit more sincere, and perhaps a bit more of her calm Book 1 Self. Perhaps a bit less helpless, although it's somewhat required for the plot to proceed. I hope we see a strong presence of her character going forward, especially since she's apparently this very strong spirit person, and ergo someone I hope Korra will be working with after Tenzin gets over what appears to be an impending heart attack.

Part of the problem I think is that this is all sort of rushed. It's kind of a corporate/planning thing. This had to be hashed out just a bit more before they began with Korra. If it had, we would have been able to see a lot more subtle development. Although I am very pleased with her plot inclusion, frankly, these little hints are things they should have been giving early on.

In part... frankly I think that the S2 plot in particular needed more time devoted to it. It's just too bit a plot. While the creators acknowledge wanting to do a bunch of different things with the different Korra seasons... I mean, come on. Avatar Aang used 3 seasons to save the world, granted that it also included mastering bending and coming to terms with a massive situation. But honestly... they're trying to fit Korra fighting/preventing the ultimate good and evil fate of the universe battle into... 8 episodes. I mean, really, this needs more time.

Tenzin's tragic plot definitely is something great to bring up recently. Hopefully, I think, his tragedy will be resolved soon. Jinora maybe taking him into the spirit world for a little while, teaching her spirit knowledge while remembering not to neglect his other children...

At the very least, if Jinora doesn't survive this one, the creators better give her a good compensation package. Yuki's "moon spirit" deal might be a bit hard to beat technically, but we never really saw her after that.

I think... hopefully, that I'm getting right about Korra's "character defects" being a bit intentional and her using this time to begin to learn. I think the last episode just confirmed it, where in the Spirit World, which seems like this great medium for conveying character traits and emotions physically (in awesome scenes) she reverted back to her young discovering-her-avatarness state and sort of doing a bit of a mini-relearning there. I've honestly come to like the Korra cast (rushed as they may sometimes be but with their great spots--Kya's turning out to be interesting, as is Bumi) and Korra herself has held somewhat of a conflicted spot in my head, so I do hope that they really give her Avatar rate some clout... or at the very least make it short so we can skip to the next one and see Adult Jinora mastering the Spiritual world and Adult Meelo conquering the world via lemur army.

And now for the grand finale...

IROH!

Oh yes Iroh! That was awesome. I kind of lost it at his appearance. As much as I'm enthralled with the Jinora plot (...maybe she could replace Wan Shi Tong. He's a bit of a jackass, though his foxes are nice) seeing Iroh was the icing on the cake.

Admittedly, the voice was obviously a bit off, but his pure appearance fills me with joy. I find it completely awesome that he's just sort of there... resident spirit of Pai Sho and Tea (and apparently a spiritual expert like Jinora), and he has Wan's teapot, which is a brilliant detail by the creators. I hope he does come back as well, though I'll have to start limiting myself a bit.

Also, I'm completely enthused by the fact that he didn't actually die but just sort of became a spirit upon his own choosing. I feel that's appropriate.

And he taught Korra. That has to do something.

On a final note... I wonder if Raava plans to make a speaking appearance. As far as we know she hasn't talked to any avatar since Wan. However I think she could give some... valuable assistance here, probably. She didn't even speak when Vaatu called her out directly. We know you're in there.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby mr-mitch » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:14 pm UTC

What did people think about the final episode of season 1?

I'm not too sure what 'actually' happened.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Zohar » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:49 pm UTC

mr-mitch wrote:What did people think about the final episode of season 1?

I'm not too sure what 'actually' happened.

Season 1 of what? The Last Airbender or Korra?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby mr-mitch » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:53 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
mr-mitch wrote:What did people think about the final episode of season 1?

I'm not too sure what 'actually' happened.

Season 1 of what? The Last Airbender or Korra?


Korra. The first two books form season 1, next two books (26 episodes) form season 2.

Not sure why they describe it like that.

I mean the last episode of the book Spirits.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:33 pm UTC

Oh man, what's going to happen at the finale?!

Spoiler:
I was pretty disappointed to see the Korra-Mako-Asami triangle get rebooted due to amnesia, but meh, whatever, the spirit storyline has thankfully become front and center. I love the idea of a Dark Avatar; maybe Korra will be the last Avatar and Vaatu and Rava will be cancelled out in a self-sacrifice kind of shtick?

Anyone else feel the individuality of each bending style has been somewhat diminished in favor of a more fluid, pro-bending style paradigm?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Isaac Hill » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:29 pm UTC

The last two eps of Korra Book 2 (Darkness Falls, then Light in the Dark) are already up on the official Nick site. I'm not sure why Nick put them up before they air; it seems like that would hurt ratings.

I've liked the second half of this book far more than the first. If you had told me a month ago that I'd be liking the Korra story much more than the current Aang story, I wouldn't have believed you. Spoilers for the Search, Part 3:
Spoiler:
I didn't buy that Ursa would choose to forget her children when getting her new face. Ozai's already planned on killing Zuko once and is keeping the children as hostages. Here she's found a way a person can get a new face and identity, and she doesn't think that her kids might need that someday. Sure, she might not get the chance to take them to the spirit, but a chance of being away from Ozai for good is worth holding on to.

The bit about Zuko not being Ozai's biological son, but then again he really is, seemed more like the writers jerking the readers around than an interesting plot point. And what if Ursa's letters were going through? She'd be torturing Ikem by making him think he'd never see his own son.

The most dissapointing thing for me was that we didn't get to see Azula talk to Ursa (with Ursa knowing who she is, anyway). All of Azula's hallucinations of her mother, both on the show and in the comics, seemed like they would lead to something more than, "If I am your mother, I'm sorry." Given how less impressive Ursa's come across here than in the show, maybe it's not that big a deal.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:07 pm UTC

Not sure whether to laugh at thread title change or seethe in quiet rage...
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby mr-mitch » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:23 pm UTC

Definitely rage. But not so quiet.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby ArgonV » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:44 pm UTC

Spoiler:
So what happened to Vaatu? I mean, he can't be destroyed, so he's gonna grow out of Raava now?

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Diadem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:53 pm UTC

Man, that final was almost as bad as the first season's.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Thadlerian » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:36 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Man, that final was almost as bad as the first season's.

I thought it was worse. The finale of Season 1 just kind of worked until the scenes at the South Pole, where all the sacrifices were reversed.

What really cemented it for me was the resolution of
Spoiler:
the Eska/Bolin subplot. One thing is how the writers managed to put Team Avatar and Unalaq's kids in the prison tent without any form of interaction between E and B. They hadn't seen one another since the beginning of the season - wouldn't some kind of reaction, at least, be expected?

But the sequence in the spirit portal land was low beyond unworthy. Those two poor kids are emotionally malnourished after a life likely full of the kind of neglect demonstrated by Unalaq earlier on, and Bolin fakes affection for Eska to get out of captivity - but it's all played out to be comical (funny faces, etc.). That was just shameful. The writers try to save face by indicating a little real affection from Bolin later, but as with 90 % of the finale's content, it appears to be pulled out of thin air.

E and B was Season 2's chance to really surprise us with a touching story - Unalaq's twins interacting with Team Avatar to slowly recover from their sad and emotionally stunted existence, driven in part (but not necessarily entirely) by the romance subplot, ultimately becoming the extra weight that tips the scales in Korra's favour against Unalaq. Plenty development for all characters involved. So my disappointment is also part relative deprivation, the thought of what could have been.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:32 am UTC

Spoiler:
I think you're completely projecting Eska and Desna's 'emotional stunting'. They even mention that they're unsure how to tell their mother, indicating that they are aware of the pain of loss. They're just weird, they're not 'stunted'. They even had dialog indicating that they knew their father had gone too far.

I'm curious what this means for reincarnation.

I was also hoping they'd actually have some sacrifices; Jinora magically waking up was a bit too perfect.


I guess the only issue I had, aside from the somewhat scattered nature of the storytelling, was that Asami is *ONCE AGAIN* just kind of backburnered.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby johnie104 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:57 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Is it just me or was Jinora Jezus completely unforshadowed? I mean, she went to do something in the spirit world, and then all of a sudden she can teleport to the normal world, and wield a orb of +1 deus ex machina? And why could Korra change into the blue thingy? At that point she wasn't special anymore. She didn't have the light-spirit in her, and she isn't particularly good at spirit stuff. It would probably have worked better if Jinora did the gigantic spirit fighting.

The Original series is so much better it is just sad. This feels like some bad fan art.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Zohar » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:13 pm UTC

Trailer for season 3. Looks awesome, as usual. I dearly hope Korra will stop getting pissed off all the time and works on her communication skills. Looks like it's going to be mostly out of the big city, and if I'm not mistaken the fighting looks more creative, more flowing, not just shooting elemental projectiles like it was in previous seasons, and more similar to bending in The Last Airbender.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Angua » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:49 pm UTC

Thoughts from the trailer:
Spoiler:
Not as many spirits as I thought there'd be - you see the girl (forgotten her name already) in spirit form again, and one floating whale type spirit but that looks like about it.

Was Boomi airbending?

Zuko!!!!
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:53 pm UTC

Sparky sparky boom... woman?
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:28 am UTC

Oh, hey, Zuko.

I saw at least one shot of what appeared to be Lin with black hair, so I'm going to assume some flashbacks are involved... I wonder if that's where he comes in. Or the present.

Spoiler:
There appears to be a heck lot of non-Family Tenzin airbending going on in this trailer. I assume this means my theory about Korra being able to bestow bending is... plausible? Either that or some other way has developed. Maybe this mysterious shiny city I'm seeing.

S2's big ending seemed to say "Hey look guys. Spirits are going to be everywhere now" so I'm a bit perplexed by their relatively low participation in the trailer. I'm wondering how this will work out.

Mindfirebending woman reminds me of Azula in appearance... I can only wonder.


I should elaborate more on the finale I only recently caught up with, but for the record:

Spoiler:
I hope escaped-Varrick makes some sort of appearance.

Also, that sarcastic Lemur-ish spirit from Wan, now that the portal's open.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Isaac Hill » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:25 am UTC

Korra, Book 3 Ep 1-3
Spoiler:
So, the Air Acolytes dedicate their lives to Air Nomad culture, lug everyone's crap around, and hardly ever get any lines, but none of them get any air bending? Dick move, universe.

I liked that Korra tried to help the bridge air bender by talking, it worked, and everyone was happy. Then, when she tried the same thing with the sullen air bender, it didn't work and she started to go back to ass whooping. If she always tried ass whooping, it'd be a frustrating lack of character growth. If she never tried ass whooping, it'd be out of character. This was a happy medium.

Meelo is a gifted bender with a lust for power who tested his uncle by hurling a plate at his head. Until the show explicitly tells me otherwise, I am considering him the reincarnation of Azula.

We saw more of Ba Sing Se in one episode than we saw of Republic City in two seasons. The show'll probably have to revisit the spirit vine plotline at some point, but I wouldn't mind if they didn't. I'm just not invested in Republic City enough to care what happens to it.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby NecklaceOfShadow » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:00 am UTC

I... don't know what to think, honestly. After the trainwreck that was S2, I don't know if I should really trust the show again. But I'm cautiously optimistic, maybe?

Book 3, Eps 1-2
Spoiler:
I like that the show at least touched upon the effects of Korra's decision to integrate the spirit and physical worlds. I hope that it happens for more than just that one episode. After all, I don't think there's any reason Republic City should be the only city in the world hit hard by the spirit migration. It's not the boundary between the worlds, IIRC: that's the north and south poles. The water tribe should be hit the hardest, then, shouldn't it? Unless this is just an excuse to get Korra out.

I thought that even more indicative of character growth is that Korra and Asami actually have a good relationship now. I didn't think it could happen.

They're probably trying to bring back memories of the first show by banishing Korra and making her travel the world. I don't know how well it'll work, since the Gaang and Korra's group have way different dynamics. (Also, is there a snappy name for Korra's group yet?)

I agree that the Air Acolytes seem to get the shaft. One of the comics about the gap between A:TLA and LoK showed that the first acolytes were nothing more than fangirls. Damn dedicated fangirls, I suppose. Unless they've become a cult.

It didn't seem like they were bastardizing Lin's character this time. Then again, she only had four words the whole two episodes. So who knows?

The villains are all hype, no substance. Wonder what they'll do with them.

Zuko <3 !!!

Ep 3
Spoiler:
I can't tell if Zuko's "it didn't work" line was him being adorkably awkward, or just thick. (I know what the intent was, just not the result.) We know it didn't work, Zuzu.

"Air nomads don't have armies, Meelo." Nice foreshadowing.

Oh gods, did they have to bring the twins back?

I feel like the show is going to try to have a special lesson about poverty. My instinct tells me it's going to end up as a Clueless Aesop. [TV Tropes link] "Keeping all these people poor is bad. But most of our poor people are unsympathetic or bootstrapped their way up, so it's okay not to be sympathetic." I might be too cynical.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:37 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:After the trainwreck that was S2
Overly dramatic much?
S2 was worlds better than S1.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby NecklaceOfShadow » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:47 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
NecklaceOfShadow wrote:After the trainwreck that was S2
Overly dramatic much?
S2 was worlds better than S1.

I'd rather watch The Great Divide on repeat than watch S2 again. S1 > S2.
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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Djehutynakht » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:02 am UTC

This was definitely very interesting.

S3 Ep 1-3:

Spoiler:
NecklaceOfShadow wrote: After all, I don't think there's any reason Republic City should be the only city in the world hit hard by the spirit migration. It's not the boundary between the worlds, IIRC: that's the north and south poles. The water tribe should be hit the hardest, then, shouldn't it?


Well, it's where the big part of the Harmonic Convergence was fought, so maybe it has some sort of spiritual energy... maybe vine things don't grow well at the poles. Republic City does get that sort of "it's special because we say so" treatment sometimes.. for instance UnaVaatu (the narrator named-mashed them), intent on destroying the world, decides, though neither Vaatu nor Unalaq had any tangible connection to the place, that it absolutely had to be the first to go.

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:(Also, is there a snappy name for Korra's group yet?)


The Korrassociation?

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:The villains are all hype, no substance. Wonder what they'll do with them.


I think it's more of a "we've given you a tantalizing hit that these people are powerful and dangerous and have a whole new-world-order thing in mind but we're not going to reveal what they're up to yet". I mean... there were a few things. The leader started off by talking about ancient Airbender poetry... he has to be somewhat interesting.

Isaac Hill wrote:So, the Air Acolytes dedicate their lives to Air Nomad culture, lug everyone's crap around, and hardly ever get any lines, but none of them get any air bending? Dick move, universe.


Pretty much. I mean seriously... none of them? Not a single person studying ancient Air Nomad spirituality was a bit of a good candidate for Airbending?

I do sort of like that they've made this dynamic though... Airbending seems to have descended on totally random people, and, now that it has, they're not all suddenly willing to drop their lives for the great and glorious cause of dedicating their lives to rebuilding an entire culture!

I feel like one big theme is going to be cultural shifts and changes (obviously)... and the Airbenders are going to be a big example. The Ancient pre-TLA culture is never going to be revived just as it was... heck, we've seen that already; Air Nomads used to segregate themselves by gender in their temples, and Tenzin has instead switched to family style (not that he has any choice...) but even the Acolytes at the different temples seem to be a mix of both genders.

It's going to be interesting. Will Air culture adapt to accept those Airbenders who choose to retain their former lives? Will Tenzin reconcile with all of the people he totally pissed off?

Although it seems we may have a critical mass of Airbenders being supplied by the secret Dai Li operation thing going on (seriously? seriously? They didn't disband the Dai Li? Who the hell got it in their mind to keep the Dai Li around?).

I'm not sure this will be quite as simple as the grand ol' lesson on poverty, but I do appreciate with Korra the absolute mess the world seems to be in (from a realistic view). Aang's story was great, and yes, he had tangential issues, but his mission was very focused (defeat the Fire Lord). Korra pretty much has a world where everything is screwed up... and they're even giving her poll numbers.

I think there's definitely a lot of potential here... It really could go either way; the writers just decided to throw a whole ton of stuff on, so... we'll see how it goes.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby moiraemachy » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:49 pm UTC

I have a feeling I will love to hate season 3.
Spoiler:
Like season 1, very solid ideas being thrown around in the first episodes. But we already have 2 antagonist forces and only 10 episodes left to solve it. I fear they will contort the plot to make it fit. Will try to remain optimistic.
Season 1 x season 2:
Spoiler:
I think season 1 had pacing problems but a solid story, and while season 2 had the reverse problem. Still think showing the origin of bending, the first avatar and how it relates to lion turtles was a bad choice, that detracts from the, uh, "Tolkien-esque" feeling of the show, the feeling that the world is vast and alive and contains its several mysteries and actors and we're actually just experiencing a small part (though a very important one) of it by following the avatar around. Also, in season 2, everyone is dumb.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Thadlerian » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:01 am UTC

Introductory episodes to a new season! And, again, I'm joyfully optimistic about what we are about to be served, and I'm waiting for the rest of the season to shoot me down again.

But before S3, regarding S1 vs S2:

S1 and S2 both had very fundamental problems, that made them - as a whole - much less enjoyable than the first series.

The first season had a good premise (the Equalists) that it just couldn't hold onto. I can't help feeling that the Equalists were sort of right - benders in S1 were mostly an arrogant elite - but the Equalists were made so cruel, so obviously evil, with Amon being a big fraud, so it was impossible to explore the implications of their ideas. This feeds into the larger problem of the story/intrigue failing to engage me. The great emotional peak of S1, if I'm reading the fandom right, is when Lin is deprived of her bending. That's the worst thing that can happen to a person in the Korra universe: Not death, not losing their mind, not being estranged from their families, but losing their little toy. They gave us Republic City, but never showed us anything about life, everything just revolved around those stupid benders. I just don't care. Amon can have it all.

Season two was more like a sine wave - high and low points. The "first avatar" had much beauty, but could have been more subtle. The entry into the spirit world was wonderful as well, but remained chained to the uninteresting and predictable story. The bad guy was obvious from episode two and on, and it all ended with the giant energy robot battle in Republic City (why here?), where everything just came out of nowhere. That pretty much describes the season.

Both of them were very visually appealing, but the fight scenes rarely mattered, because there was rarely anything at stake beyond losing face or losing bending, and you could always tell which side would be given plot armor and what the outcome would be.

Legend of Korra was set up to be a more "mature" than the Aang story, but is less. The comedy is more base, and whenever more mature themes are to be explored, like politics, the whole thing just reeks of plain resentment towards politicians and media - young viewers aren't going to learn anything about adult life, just reproductions of various prejudices.


But all of that is in the past, because now we're looking at season 3, and we've already had three good episodes. Both previous seasons had lost it at this point. I really like the idea of rebuilding the Air Nomad culture, because despite the failings of the last two seasons, Tenzin as a character has worked well as someone to care about, and he cares a lot about this, even though he has no clue about how to do it. And now this plotline is being used as a starting point for showing off the great diversity of the Avatar universe. After just one episode, Ba Sing Se is infinitely more real to me than Republic City ever got. This is a place with real issues and real conflict.

I like the look of the new villains as well. The first guy has a sort of ambiguous look to him, half sympathetic, and I really hope they're going anywhere with giving these people real motivations this time around.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:05 pm UTC

Interesting thoughts.

Thadlerian wrote:The first season had a good premise (the Equalists) that it just couldn't hold onto. I can't help feeling that the Equalists were sort of right - benders in S1 were mostly an arrogant elite - but the Equalists were made so cruel, so obviously evil, with Amon being a big fraud, so it was impossible to explore the implications of their ideas. This feeds into the larger problem of the story/intrigue failing to engage me. The great emotional peak of S1, if I'm reading the fandom right, is when Lin is deprived of her bending. That's the worst thing that can happen to a person in the Korra universe: Not death, not losing their mind, not being estranged from their families, but losing their little toy. They gave us Republic City, but never showed us anything about life, everything just revolved around those stupid benders. I just don't care. Amon can have it all.


Spoiler:
I wouldn't say that benders in S1 were an arrogant elite altogether. It just so happens that most benders we interacted with happened to be in higher places, or were criminals. And the Equalist ideas, at heart, were cruel--as they involved taking away peoples' bending. We have indication in the show that bending is not just "their little toy", but is in fact a very important part of their own person and identity, which after being robbed of they felt empty and broken. While sure other things are probably worse... we weren't dealing with other things. If I may expand my examples to cover the original season as well, the show gave us many indications that the Equalists were wrong in saying that benders were a dangerous elite and non-benders were the poor oppressed. In the original series we saw many a powerful non-bender; Mai, Ty Lee, the Water Tribe chief, Sokka to a point, Master Paku, the Kyoshi warriors... And likewise we saw many benders who in the end weren't anything special save the manipulation of their element (all those firebending guards...). Non-benders seem to be good at making fortunes too... Mr. Sato, Cabbage Corp., the Bei Fong family, Varrick. In the first season Mako and Bolin were a prime example that being a bender does not guarantee an elite life for them... in fact Amon's lie ended up being their reality. In the end though, the Equalists themselves (as well as Asami) ended up enforcing the original series' example that one's dangerousness is not exclusive to having bending skill.


Thadlerian wrote:because there was rarely anything at stake beyond losing face or losing bending


In all fairness, S2's "destruction of the Universe" thing was a bit more "at stake".


Although I agree; things could have been better.

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Avin » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:43 pm UTC

Well I missed the episodes. I heard that it was available on Nick.com for only 24 hours after they aired and then they were taken down, with the promise that they would show up after that for purchase on Amazon.
Right now they're not available at either nick.com or Amazon. Does anyone know if it's possible to still watch them (legally)? Or if they will become available soon?

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Re: Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:16 pm UTC

Avin wrote:Well I missed the episodes. I heard that it was available on Nick.com for only 24 hours after they aired and then they were taken down, with the promise that they would show up after that for purchase on Amazon.
Right now they're not available at either nick.com or Amazon. Does anyone know if it's possible to still watch them (legally)? Or if they will become available soon?


Legally.... eh... I dunno about that.

Hypothetically, they should be repeating on Nickelodeon, although I've heard (on this thread? I forget) that the episodes were hurriedly penciled in for premier after a leak... so maybe they just haven't had time to work them into the repeats schedule (although, to be honest, I don't remember if Korra ever got a fair amount of TV repeat time).


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