Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby arbiteroftruth » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:21 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:S7E5, minor nitpick:

Spoiler:
Gendry mentions to Jon in this episode that he grew up on stories of their fathers fighting together... but I have a feeling like Gendry didn't know that Robert was his father until midway through season 3ish (I know in the books he doesn't figure it out for awhile). Is this correct? Been awhile since I watched the early seasons.


Spoiler:
You got that backwards. Jon says he grew up on stories of their fathers. Gendry replies "all I knew is that they fought together and won".

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:47 pm UTC

So I heard episode 6 is out on the undernet. :roll:

There are a couple of things that didn't sit well with me next week's episode. But, damn, the aforementioned Rule of Cool makes up for it tenfold.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:14 am UTC

I've come from the future to say the following about S07E06:
Spoiler:
I am once again disappointed by Sansa. I so really really want to like her which was easy enough in the early seasons but for years now they have repeatedly built her up as this savvy politician/schemer only to have her make stupid obvious mistakes, fail at what she is trying to achieve and get bailed out by LF. Why?!? At this point I wouldn't be too surprised if at the end of the show LF manipulates Sansa into marrying him and giving him the throne.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby plytho » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:42 am UTC

I agree about S07E06:
Spoiler:
Yeah, Sansa really needs to start winning.
And, yeah, that was pretty cool.
Weird things though: I can't imagine Sansa accidentaly finding Arya's faces. What was Arya trying to accomplish there? Or are we really to believe Arya could be that clumsy with her stuff?
Weird thing 2: where the hell did the white walkers get those massive chains?
It also seems like the writers forgot about Benjen Stark and figured they needed to write him in at the last moment.

I like Dany being there to see the threat with her own eyes.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:23 pm UTC

S7E06

Spoiler:
Glad to see the Night King taking a page out of Kaiba's book and playing his Blue Eyes Wight Dragon.

I pretty much agree with the rest of the above; Daeny showing up was good although the ragtag band did seem to lose people more times than really worked out.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby plytho » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:34 pm UTC

S7E06

Spoiler:
Yeah, anytime they lost someone I thought "wait who was that?" only to see it was another unnamed (probably) wildling that I didn't know was still there. I do remember there being 4 of them manning the sled at the beginning.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:20 am UTC

S07E06:
Spoiler:
I thought it was only the 7 named characters going North but I did count 4 nameless people get killed and I was very confused about who they were. Was there a shot establishing there were actually 11 people on the expedition?

I have to say the Ice Dragon was never one of my favorite fan theories- a bit too high fantasy for the best part of the series, but I was really hyped by the end of the episode. They are also doing a good job of establishing how and why Dany is falling for Jon.

Its also good that they finally established a credible threat to the dragons although I wish there had been more time dedicated to the emotional reaction to and ramifications of losing a dragon. Perhaps there will be more next episode but I am worried it might just get swept under the rug like Jon's resurrection.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby plytho » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:36 am UTC

S07E06:
Spoiler:
maybeagnostic wrote: I thought it was only the 7 named characters going North but I did count 4 nameless people get killed and I was very confused about who they were. Was there a shot establishing there were actually 11 people on the expedition?

When they form a circle to fight off the bear there is an overview shot of more than 7 people in that circle.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:51 am UTC

Episode 6 spoilers
Spoiler:
There were some big problems with this episode in terms of logistics. How long were they on that damn rock? Gendry had to RUN to Eastwatch and send a Raven 1500 miles south to Dragonstone. And then Dany and the dragons had to fly back. It showed one overnight but that's about it. Something's gotta give there. Also, if the Night King is so freaking strong as to pierce dragonhide from god knows how far away with his spear, why the hell wasn't he just picking up rocks and stoning Jon and company to death? Should have taken all of 10 minutes to get em all.

Aside that, the drama at Winterfell is just annoying IMO. It feels so forced and unrealistic. And why didn't Arya tell Sansa it was found in Littlefinger's room? She was wary of him and that's how she found it in the first place!

Last thought, the Night King's old horse must feel really bad. I mean he was probably worried after they raised that polar bear that he'd be replaced by that but now this? Can't be good for his ego.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:03 am UTC

Episode 6:
Spoiler:
Yeah, there were three things that bothered me in this episode.

-Timing of Dany's arrival makes no sense, as noted.
-Jon surviving that fall into the ice lake and then the journey back to the Wall is actually more unbelievable, IMHO. Just finding his way out of the lake alone is iffy.
-I really dislike that the series is apparently going with the "kill the main bad guy and their entire army gets wiped out" trope.

[edit]
Actually, four. The drama in Winterfell is not really doing anything for me.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:51 am UTC

S07E06:
Spoiler:
I actually quite liked the way events in the North developed. It wasn't exactly a mind-blowing twist but they finally established some actual threat and really developed the relationship between Dany and Jon. So for that I am willing to forgive them the Gendry-crow-dragon relay race shenanigans even though I think it would have made more sense if Dany had decided to go to Eastwatch on her own and intercepted the message there.

Anyway, the parts that really bothered me were the nameless wildlings that we only saw getting killed (a fake out for a "real" character dying each time), Tormund getting saved at the last second when it was a superbly executed end/stake raise and, more than anything else, the Benjen scene that just had two "Jon is gonna die!" fake-outs in just a few minutes.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:33 am UTC

Episode 6

Spoiler:
I forgot to mention the Benjen scene. What the hell was the point in that? Did we even get any explanation of what he was?

And Jon falling into the ice water and surviving all the way back to Eastwatch I kinda just ignored. Clearly after Sansa and Theon survived the freezing water at the start of last season I've concluded hypothermia doesn't exist in Westeros.

I do agree that adding a threat that you can't just throw dragons at was a good part of the plot. It's just how they got there and the timing. The only thing I can think of that would make sense from the Night King's perspective is if he's some sort of Greenseer like Bran. At which point it makes sense that he came with dragon killing spears, left Jon and company alone until the dragons arrived and then killed one so he could raise it and use it to get past the wall. If that's the case, it better be explained though. Otherwise it's super contrived that he managed to get a dragon to get past the wall with in the final episode (well I'm assuming that's what he's going to do with the dragon)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:34 pm UTC

Episode 6
Spoiler:
Well the Targaryens have this fire immunity thing going on. Maybe the Starks have some form of cold immunity? Makes sense.

The opening shot of the episode showed I think 10 people in the group north of the wall. Then later shots I counted 13. So I don't know exactly how many redshirts they had with them, but a fair numbers. It is a bit too much Star Trek though that all the redshirts kept dying and none of the named characters. That's not how the Game of Thrones universe works. But that priest did die in the end, and of course the dragon.

The trope of 'kill the leader, the rest dies' is way overdone, I agree, though it does kind of make sense for zombies that really are powered by the magic of the white walkers. So I'll forgive them for it just this once, but I really hope they won't make that the resolution of the entire series.

All in all I liked the events North of the Wall. I thought it was well done, even if the timing didn't make sense, as others have noted.

I'm more confused about the Winterfell stuff. I felt that both Sansa and Arya behaved horribly out of character. I also thought the acting was a bit wooden here and there, clearly the actors didn't quite know what to do with those scenes either. And why the hell did Sansa sent Brienne away? Littlefinger's advice about using her actually made sense. After that scene between Littlefinger and Sansa I thought for a minute that that was in fact what they were going with, Littlefinger giving honestly good advice and thus getting credit and gratitude for mending the rift between the sisters.

Littlefinger's plan is to marry Sansa right? Getting her murdered by Arya seems counterproductive. As another famous Stark would put it: "Not a great plan".
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:41 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Honestly, if I were Sansa, my instinct at this point would be to do the exact opposite of whatever Littlefinger suggests. He may be helpful in the short term, but it's all contributing to whatever his grand master plan is.

Jon surviving the icy water, I'm gonna chalk that up to Starks having ice immunity the same way Targs have fire immunity. That would make Jon safe from ice AND fire, of course. Ooooh, series name drop!

And oh god, Dany and Jon seem to fancy each other... please please please let them find out they're related BEFORE they do anything about it.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:00 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Spoiler:
And oh god, Dany and Jon seem to fancy each other... please please please let them find out they're related BEFORE they do anything about it.


But Targs though
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:51 am UTC

Aegon the Conquerer married BOTH of his sisters, at the same time. This isnt even close to that.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:55 am UTC

Spoiler:
Yeah, Jon and Dany aren't that closely related and, more importantly, they didn't known each other until they were adults which is where most of the creep factor comes from.

We have really strong proof that the Night King has the same kind of magic as Bran which is why he can see and touch him in his vision quests. The whole thing was clearly an ambush for dragons they expected to come so the only strange part to me is what made Jon & Co decide they could hold out until the dragons arrived.

As for Benjen, my personal theory is that we'll find out he's an ice wight puppeteered by future-Bran. It would mean Bran helped himself get to where he needed to be and also that he wasn't totally absent from the first major confrontation with the White Walkers. Bonus points if he also sent ravens out to Daenerys ahead of time and the one Gendry ran for didn't make it to Dragonstone until days later but I don't really believe that'll be the case.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby raudorn » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:57 am UTC

Re: all the little things in S7E6
Spoiler:
I'm not that bothered by any single of the dubious details or minor plot holes. Big chains? Eh, they had some lying around in Hardhome. Marathon Gendry? Maybe the route was a bit circuitous and a bee-line for Eastwatch was only like 20 miles. Fast ravens? Eh, whatever. The Army of the Dead not having a single ranged weapon? Well, they probably can't make ammunition, so they don't bother with bows. Or better: The NK knew Dany was coming, so he dragged the fight out for a chance to get Sindragosa.

Any single thing can be explained away or just ignored. However I'm starting to be bothered a bit by how many of them were in that episode and what that spells for future episodes. There's always a need to balance a perfectly logical plot and creating situations for character development, which may violate a big of consistency here or there. Let's hope they regain that balance before it's thrown out of whack.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Episode 6

Spoiler:
I forgot to mention the Benjen scene. What the hell was the point in that? Did we even get any explanation of what he was?


Tying up loose ends.

Spoiler:
After that scene, there's no reason for Jon to go north of the wall anymore. So if Jon is to learn about Benjen / Coldhands, that was the time to do it.


Honestly, its a bit lazily written IMO. Rule of cool is still winning me over with regards to S7E6, but the number of inconsistencies, teleporting, and plot armor is making me lose faith in the scriptwriters ability slightly.

S7E7 looks like it will bring things back to reality however (based on the "next time on" preview). If S7E7 handles the events logically, I think I'll forgive all of those plotholes and stuff. Ultimately, S7E6 had very cool and important major events happen. I'd grade the episode a solid "B", there were some issues, but the "good" parts of the episode shine through and really interest me.

S7E6
Spoiler:
* The entirety of the quest north of the wall was a giant Red-shirt fest protecting the heavily plot-armored up characters. Jon Snow should not have survived being dragged underwater by zombies (especially since said zombies can presumably function enough underwater to attach chains to a dragon)

* A dragon wasn't just hurt, but killed and then turned. Despite my annoyance of "plotarmor", this necessarily removes the plot armor which has applied to the Dragons this whole time. Jon Snow really should be dead after that sequence, but losing a Dragon to the Night King is... more than enough to make up for it.

* The logistics of the group made no damn sense. Eastwatch is really fucking far from Dragonstone, there's no way Danny would have made it on time. Benjen's decision to ride in after Danny did only makes the logistics feel more arbitrary. Benjen should have rode in before, and stood his ground with the group (and possibly give more time to interact with Jon Snow and/or provide a legitimate reason why the group could run away / hide from the dead).

* I agree with this thread that Winterfell's drama isn't cutting it for me. Littlefinger previously made "smart" moves. But this season, it feels like Sansa / Arya are making "dumb" moves and Littlefinger really isn't very smart at all.

* But with Brianne heading to King's Landing (likely a ruse by Littlefinger), there's an opportunity for Arya and Sansa to figure everything out before the season's end. And there's still the nuclear "Bran" option if things get too bad. So I have hopes that Arya / Sansa figure things out together. But the setup for this drama is... a bit cringeworthy.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:56 pm UTC

One thing I did really enjoy about this episode:

S7E6
Spoiler:
The eminently practical Tyrion's thoughts on the succession were very astute. Especially his almost throwaway remark about how "The Watch, and, for all their faults, the Ironborn" select their rulers.

I'm really curious to see if they will actually arrive upon a real solution to the problem of who is going to sit on ye olde pointy chair. Of course, upon Dany's death, it's much more likely that her coalition is going to shatter into its constituent parts and send Westeros into another generation of bloody wars.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:37 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Spoiler:
The eminently practical Tyrion's thoughts on the succession were very astute. Especially his almost throwaway remark about how "The Watch, and, for all their faults, the Ironborn" select their rulers.

I'm really curious to see if they will actually arrive upon a real solution to the problem of who is going to sit on ye olde pointy chair. Of course, upon Dany's death, it's much more likely that her coalition is going to shatter into its constituent parts and send Westeros into another generation of bloody wars.

Spoiler:
Unless of course Jon and Dany* make babies and they rule all of Westeros.

Is that why they put in the scene about succession? To further the idea that Jon and Daenerys will be together? (I forgot how they got to talking about succession in the first place.)

Tyrion might well be the most eloquent/strategic/smartest person in all of Westeros and Essos.


*boy did I grind my teeth when the writers made Jon say "Dany" to her face and then made her explain how she was called that by her brother. I guess it was mostly because of all the nonsense preceding that scene and that they tried to shoehorn in a lovey-dovey scene between Jon and Daenerys at the end where you'd expect her to be mourning and him to be understanding.


Also,
Spoiler:
why would Daenerys fly north with her dragons in the first place? Is she suddenly believing in an army of the dead (presumably) because of a piece of paper saying main characters are in danger?
If she does believe it, wouldn't going alone with only 3 dragons be very risky? And if she doesn't, why fly out with your dragons at all?



I guess those red-shirts were the writers and now the series is written by Daenerys "My Immortal" "Mary Sue" Targaryen. :oops:

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:35 am UTC

Flumble wrote:I guess those red-shirts were the writers and now the series is written by Daenerys "My Immortal" "Mary Sue" Targaryen. :oops:


To be fair, she's been pulling "Mary Sue" moves since season 2 even when the story was primarily driven by GRRM.

Flumble wrote:
Spoiler:
why would Daenerys fly north with her dragons in the first place? Is she suddenly believing in an army of the dead (presumably) because of a piece of paper saying main characters are in danger?
If she does believe it, wouldn't going alone with only 3 dragons be very risky? And if she doesn't, why fly out with your dragons at all?



Spoiler:
She knew it'd be risky, but Danny is the kind of person to do things herself. There was little reason for her to be on the frontlines to attack the Lannister loot-train, but she charged with the Dothraki.

While the show has been playing fast-and-loose with time, its clear that Danny's dragons are the fastest method of transportation in the show. If "Team Jon" was sleeping in the middle of the lake for maybe 3 or 4 days, it sorta-kinda makes sense that only Danny and her three dragons would arrive fast enough.


LaserGuy wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm really curious to see if they will actually arrive upon a real solution to the problem of who is going to sit on ye olde pointy chair. Of course, upon Dany's death, it's much more likely that her coalition is going to shatter into its constituent parts and send Westeros into another generation of bloody wars.


Spoiler:
As long as it isn't "Democracy", I think I'll be happy. Not that "America Fuck Yeah" is bad or anything, but it wouldn't fit this particular setting.

If Danny gives Jon Snow (and his lineage) the throne for example, that'd be awesome. It seems like there's a lot of options, but the characters have to survive until then for it to work.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby doogly » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:23 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Flumble wrote:Is that why they put in the scene about succession? To further the idea that Jon and Daenerys will be together? (I forgot how they got to talking about succession in the first place.)

I think she mentioned twice in the one episode that she can't have any children besides the dragons, so their togetherness still doesn't quite solve the succession crisis.

I think the best way to resolve a succession crisis is a crown from the gutter event. Very interesting.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:28 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
Spoiler:
As long as it isn't "Democracy", I think I'll be happy. Not that "America Fuck Yeah" is bad or anything, but it wouldn't fit this particular setting.

If Danny gives Jon Snow (and his lineage) the throne for example, that'd be awesome. It seems like there's a lot of options, but the characters have to survive until then for it to work.


Spoiler:
I don't think giving Jon and his line the throne would solve anything (aside from the fact that I highly doubt either Jon or Dany will survive the series). I think the problem is more fundamental than that: As a decentralized feudal monarchy, the Seven Kingdoms are ungovernable. As a single political entity, it's too big, and the rule of law is too weak (the latter being true both in terms of the power of the crown, as well as how poorly enforced laws actually are at the local level). The most likely scenario, IMHO, in terms of real life politics, is actually that the Seven Kingdoms dissolves back into some approximation of its component parts.

If you want to retain the Seven Kingdoms as a unified political entity, I think a move toward a more collaborative governance model could maybe keep it together a bit better, say, a "small council of governors consisting of Jon (Targ), Sansa (Stark), Gendry (Baratheon), Sweetrobin (Arryn), Yara (Greyjoy), Tyrion (Lannister), Edmund (Riverlands), Tormund (Wildling), X (Tyrell), Y (Dorne), and probably Z (Dothraki), where X, Y, and Z are whomever makes the most sense from those Houses. Either way, I think the Iron Throne is ultimately an impediment to long-term stability.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:00 am UTC

doogly wrote:
Spoiler:
Flumble wrote:Is that why they put in the scene about succession? To further the idea that Jon and Daenerys will be together? (I forgot how they got to talking about succession in the first place.)

I think she mentioned twice in the one episode that she can't have any children besides the dragons, so their togetherness still doesn't quite solve the succession crisis.

I think the best way to resolve a succession crisis is a crown from the gutter event. Very interesting.


Spoiler:
I mean, the books strongly suggest that Dany's womb is quickening (she seems to have a miscarriage shortly before being found in the grass sea by the dothraki to be taken to the dosh khaleen). The show certainly didn't play it as heavily but, well, they may still decide to go the route of fulfilling the sun rising in the west prophecy
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:49 am UTC

Mild Episode 7 speculation:
Spoiler:
Anyone want to take bets on who is going to be the one to epically f--- up this meeting between Cersei/Dany and all of their respective retainers? I'm kind of leaning toward Euron Greyjoy just because he's disappeared these past few episodes after such an epic introduction this season.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby raudorn » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:42 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Mild Episode 7 speculation:
Spoiler:
Anyone want to take bets on who is going to be the one to epically f--- up this meeting between Cersei/Dany and all of their respective retainers? I'm kind of leaning toward Euron Greyjoy just because he's disappeared these past few episodes after such an epic introduction this season.

Spoiler:
Huh, that's a good point. He has been surprisingly absent. Then again, he was last seen fighting the Unsullied at Casterly Rock, who also have been surprisingly absent the last episodes. As has Bran last episode. Actually, I think they simply didn't have enough screen time to go around. But Euron definitely seems like a guy who would screw up an already strained talk between enemies.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:02 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Mild Episode 7 speculation:
Spoiler:
Anyone want to take bets on who is going to be the one to epically f--- up this meeting between Cersei/Dany and all of their respective retainers? I'm kind of leaning toward Euron Greyjoy just because he's disappeared these past few episodes after such an epic introduction this season.


Spoiler:
My current bet is that Cersei realizes that Jon Snow looks a LOT like Rhaegar Targarian (Cersei's dream boyfriend: she wanted to marry him while she was younger) and Lyanna Stark (Robert Baratheon's crush). If Cersei realizes this, she'll fuck up the meeting all by herself. IIRC, Cersei has never met Jon Snow.

On the other hand, maybe she'll figure this out later and then fuck up the alliance? I'm personally expecting Jamie Lannister to get a King-and-Queen Slayer title by the end of the show...
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:31 pm UTC

Episode 7 and next season speculation
Spoiler:
I don't think anyone will fuck it up per se. Cersei definitely won't adhere to anything she agrees to here and will betray the others when it best works for her. Probably won't be shown this season but will come up some time critical next season, after which Jaime will kill her

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

Episode 7 speculation:
Spoiler:
I think the end of this season must contain two thing- the falls of The Wall and Cersei.
T: ... through an emergency induction port.
S: That's a straw, Tali.
T: Emerrrgency induction port.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:49 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:Episode 7 speculation:
Spoiler:
I think the end of this season must contain two thing- the falls of The Wall and Cersei.


More speculation
Spoiler:
No chance Cersei falls this episode, unless its something like "psych just wanted to get you within dragon range" and Drogon eats her. I really can't see that happening. In terms of the Wall I assume the Night King will fly over it on Viserion and it will break the magic on it, letting the white walkers pass by it on the ground. Maybe show some sort of losing battle at Eastwatch against the army of the dead. Or maybe Viserion breathes Ice and he just freezes their way around the wall via the sea. That would be pretty cheesy though.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby doogly » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:00 pm UTC

I think a speculation is only a spoiler if you are a prophet.

My feeling is Torvald has to die, so that when Brienne bones Jamie, she's not making a choice. Choices are hard, it's nice when circumstances make them for you. Like how Ygritte had to die for Jon to bone Dany.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:12 pm UTC

I spoiled mine since I figure talking about the next episode sorta implies there may be the previous episode's content in the spoiler too (which there was in mine).

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby doogly » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:20 pm UTC

Yeah. I mean so far the entire page is full of spoiler tags, and it makes reading a bit clunky. I think it's probably fair to just put [spoilers] in the title, and just have folks assume that the most current aired episode is always fair game. I know for me, I do not read anything in the thread at all between the airing and my watching. Would anyone object to that? Then we'd only need explicit tags in posts for discussing things like leaks or external (like interview) hints.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:48 pm UTC

I'm not sure what the current spoiler policy for this thread is. It was all over the place awhile back, though I suppose things have simplified a bit now that the show has passed the books.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Grop » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:49 pm UTC

At this point it is clear that people who only read the books and don't watch the show should not read this thead (although some of the things that we see might not be in the books).

However someone who watches the show may be a few episodes late, and wouldn't want to be spoiled these. But then what Doogly suggested makes sense. Also I normally wait for shows to be ended before I watch them, but I don't do that about this one because spoilers are everywhere.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Flumble » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:11 am UTC

Chen wrote:More speculation
Spoiler:
In terms of the Wall I assume the Night King will fly over it on Viserion and it will break the magic on it, letting the white walkers pass by it on the ground. Maybe show some sort of losing battle at Eastwatch against the army of the dead. Or maybe Viserion breathes Ice and he just freezes their way around the wall via the sea. That would be pretty cheesy though.

Spoiler:
What would be even cheesier is both having a battle slaughter at Eastwatch and have the dragon freeze scores of people to death. You know, like the attack on the Lannisters which didn't have to put one single Dothraki at risk with those dragons burning everything and everyone.



doogly wrote:Choices are hard,

not only choices :roll:

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Quercus » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:12 pm UTC

I'm a bit behind, but still wanted to nitpick about episode 1 :)

Spoiler:
Why the hell is Dragonstone abandoned? Like, nobody is there at all. Yeah, I get that Stannis is meant to have up and left with his whole army for the Wall in season 4, but unless you have gone completely insane you still leave a small garrison in case you need to go back there in the future.

In the case that you have gone completely insane and left your castle totally abandoned (at the mouth of Blackwater Bay, pretty damn close to Kings Landing), why the hell is it not crawling with Lannisters as fast as the closest spy can ride/send a raven? Leaving a whacking great fortress totally empty and ready for the first enemy that comes upon it to just walk into and use as a base of operations seems curiously stupid and neglectful for Cersei.

Edit: The more I think about it the more stupid it gets. Dragonstone is the main strategic fortress protecting King's Landing to the east. The main threat to King's Landing is from the east, in the form of Daenerys and her army, fleet and dragons. Leaving that abandoned is just about the stupidest thing you could do. I get that the Lannisters don't have a fleet anymore until Euron comes along, but you could ferry men out in fishing boats, have them row dinghys, build rafts, do something to get some bloody men out there so you're not handing a huge prize to your biggest enemy.

Edit the second: Yeah, someone wrote a whole wiki article about the sorry state of strategic planning regarding Dragonstone. It's a pretty funny read http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Aba ... ragonstone

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:59 pm UTC

On the abandonment of Dragonstone:
Spoiler:
That made me raise an eyebrow too. My head-canon says someone DID move in after Stannis left, but they heard about three dragons and a fleet full of Dothraki and Unsullied on their way, and were like "fuck this shit I'm out". So they left before Dany's forces arrived.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:04 am UTC

The season finale was really good. Several really tense scenes, some serious high fantasy epicness and quite a bit of stuff I've been waiting to see for decades. The show did rush and stumble its way to some of the resolutions but I really like how they turned out.
Spoiler:
Not even sure where to start here. The tensest scene of the episode for me was the final Jamie vs Cersei confrontation. I spent that whole scene on the edge of my seat expecting someone to die at any moment. I don't think I'll be satisfied with anything less than Jamie strangling Cersei to prevent her from burning KL/while KL burns but in the moment I really believed he was about to die. It was also a nice parallel with both of her brothers challenging her to have the Mountain execute them in the same episode.

Talking about parallels, I really like all the meanings the episode title (The Dragon and the Wolf), ranging from the obvious (Dany & Jon getting together, Rhaegar & Lyanna getting married) to the metaphorical (the North officially and publicly siding with Daenerys Stormborn) to the speculative (assuming the NK is a Stark, the ending was literally a Wolf riding a dragon). The only place I can't seem to find a connection is with the Winterfell storyline.

Talking about Winterfell though, Sansa finally gets redeemed in my eyes. This is exactly where I was hoping events were heading the whole time but if we were supposed to be getting hints of it along the way, I totally missed them. There were a few things like the dagger and Arya playing the lying game with Sansa but they don't quite hang together for me. Still, seeing Sansa orchestrate everything then spell out all the accusations and sentence LF was immensely satisfying.

Another thing that was sort of clear from last episode but we actually saw it happen in this one- Viserion, named after Dany's mad abusive brother, has turned against her and Westeros while Rhaegal (named after Jon's father) finally starts appearing alongside Drogon just as Jon officially announces for her side an we learn of his parentage. I don't know if it was a cost saving decision or an artistic choice but other than the confrontation with the NK last episode, Dany has always used only Drogon for shows of force until this episode.

I am still a little unclear if Bran is actually doing anything other than observe. Did he have a hand in Sansa & Arya working together beyond giving Arya the knife? What was the meaning of giving the knife exactly when AFAIK Sansa and Arya had never seen it before? Why is he telling Sam of all people about Jon's parentage?

Are we left to assume Beric and Tormund just died atop The Wall? It would be really anticlimactic to have them survive last episode only to die off screen now but I can't imagine how they could have gotten away.
T: ... through an emergency induction port.
S: That's a straw, Tali.
T: Emerrrgency induction port.


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