Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:12 am UTC

s07e01:
Spoiler:
It was indeed one of the better opening episodes for the show- all the boring reminding viewers who's who and doing what why was still accomplished but it had a few exciting scenes along the way. Opening was just great, I really liked the scene with the Lannister soldiers and we got some awesome use of Dany- just stand there and be epic and badass without actually doing anything. Also Show!Euron > Book!Euron at this point but I am biased there because I really dislike the Ironborn in the books.

Has anyone else run into the Ed Sheeran "controversy"? I thought it was just e-tabloids blowing it out of proportion but then I ran into some fans that generally found it upsetting. The song was great and he was just in the background for almost the entirety of the scene... I just don't think I would've even remembered he had a cameo if not for people getting upset over it.

Alys Karstark is... hmm. She looks a little like Sansa which is neat and I guess Lyanna Mormont already reigns as the resident badass. I wonder if they'll even have anything more for her to do because I find her story in the books quite intriguing.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby arbiteroftruth » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:40 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:One other thing (7e1)
Spoiler:
Lyanna Mormont continues to be awesome.

Spoiler:
Eh? What did she do this episode aside from putting words into Lord Glover's mouth and berating him for things he never said?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:38 am UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:Has anyone else run into the Ed Sheeran "controversy"? I thought it was just e-tabloids blowing it out of proportion but then I ran into some fans that generally found it upsetting. The song was great and he was just in the background for almost the entirety of the scene... I just don't think I would've even remembered he had a cameo if not for people getting upset over it.

Yeah, why is this a controversy? Since when is famous people doing cameos in tv shows controversial? I don't know who Ed Sheeran is [edit: Oh he's the guy from Shape of You? Seems I'm not entirely living under a rock then, I just didn't know his name], but I couldn't find anything about him being a controversial figure. So what's all the fuzz about?

Apparently he was brought on specifically because Maisie Williams (Arya) is a fan, and it was kept a surprise to her. I thought that was kind of cool. And knowing this show, that means that this can only end with her stabbing him.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby plytho » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:59 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Yeah, why is this a controversy?

My guess: people want to believe the world of GoT really exists in some fictional 'reality'. The fact that a lot of the actors weren't famous before the show helps. Maisy Williams is Arya Stark, Kit Harrington is Jon Snow and they are from westeros. Ed Sheeran on the other hand can only be Ed Sheeran and he's clearly from our world/reality. He doesn't belong in westeros.

I don't have a problem with it in this case but I remember watching post friends David Schwimmer playing captain Sobel in band of brothers and thinking "what the hell is Ross doing in WW2?".
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:28 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Diadem wrote:Yeah, why is this a controversy?

My guess: people want to believe the world of GoT really exists in some fictional 'reality'. The fact that a lot of the actors weren't famous before the show helps. Maisy Williams is Arya Stark, Kit Harrington is Jon Snow and they are from westeros. Ed Sheeran on the other hand can only be Ed Sheeran and he's clearly from our world/reality. He doesn't belong in westeros.

I don't have a problem with it in this case but I remember watching post friends David Schwimmer playing captain Sobel in band of brothers and thinking "what the hell is Ross doing in WW2?".


I realize you're playing devil's advocate... but still... Ned Stark / Boromir and Walder Frey / Argus Filch are two very notable counterexamples. The craziest example is the "Narp" guy from Hot Fuzz playing "The Hound".

I do realize that people aren't really consistent with their hate-fests. But... seriously. Its a cameo by a celebrity that probably has no long-term affect on the plot. And with regards to the treatment... the said scene perfectly fits within the world of Westeros. Traveling Bard-soldiers really fit the theme (even if said Bard-soldier is a real-world musician)

Its not like the soldier randomly pulled out an electric guitar or anything. He was just singing, then later talking.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:31 pm UTC

I think people are more used to seeing actors again and are prepared to do a certain amount of willing suspension of disbelief around that fact. People aren't prepared to do that for non-actor celebrities in the same way.

This is true to a certain extent for actors who are known almost exclusively from one role (like Daniel Radcliffe and unlike Sean Bean and, to a lesser extent, David Bradley. With Rory McCann, the makeup for Sandor helps with the distancing a lot.

I didn't get too badly thrown by the Ed Sheeran cameo, but the fact he still had his Ed Sheeran hair didn't help. When they've had musicians and other celebrities on before they've usually put them through more hair and makeup so that they fit in with the other cast more; if they'd put a wig on Ed Sheeran that would have helped a lot (for me at least).
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Liri » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:06 pm UTC

It's definitely one reason the LotR movie trilogy worked so well, speaking of Sean Bean. Orlando Bloom was right out of acting school, for Ilúvatar's sake.

I haven't seen the episode in question, but I'd agree with what eSOANEM said - actors get a lot more leeway. There's also a difference between a cameo as a well-disguised extra, versus ...not.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:06 am UTC

S07E02 spoilers:
Spoiler:
I never much liked the Ironborn storyline in the books but the sea battle was really well done. It was a marvelous example of showing without telling- тhe way the SIlence moved, the mute crew, cutting out the tongues of their new shipmates, Euron subsuming Victarion and his berserker rage during a fight. Alfie Allen had me on the edge of my seat at the end as he was struggling with his decision and it honestly caught me completely off guard.

On the other hand Jon and Sansa continue squabbling in front of all their vassals. I really don't see where this is going and I am afraid it might just end up being bad writing as so much of Sansa's story has been in the past- give her something to do but don't allow her to actually influence events.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:08 pm UTC

S07E02
Spoiler:
I didn't like the ship battle actually. It felt too cartoonish for GoT and like it belonged in American Gods or 300 instead.

The rest of the cinematography was fucking great though; the transitions with the pie and book being shelved were smooth as fuck
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:31 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:S07E02 spoilers:
Spoiler:
I never much liked the Ironborn storyline in the books but the sea battle was really well done. It was a marvelous example of showing without telling- тhe way the SIlence moved, the mute crew, cutting out the tongues of their new shipmates, Euron subsuming Victarion and his berserker rage during a fight. Alfie Allen had me on the edge of my seat at the end as he was struggling with his decision and it honestly caught me completely off guard.

On the other hand Jon and Sansa continue squabbling in front of all their vassals. I really don't see where this is going and I am afraid it might just end up being bad writing as so much of Sansa's story has been in the past- give her something to do but don't allow her to actually influence events.


Spoiler:
Sansa is one of those characters who will continue to be vexxing to us all precisely because we don't understand her role yet. But I think that is the point. There are still too many story lines moving right now. They're all about to converge and I think that is when you will see Sansa brought to the forefront and her true role shown. I think a part of this has already been put in motion with Jon leaving her in charge of the North while he goes 'south' (more like southwest) to meet up with Danerys. What happens between those two at Dragonstone will have a huge impact for the rest of the season (obviously). Already Danerys has been hit with a setback. She won't make that mistake again.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:31 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:S07E02
Spoiler:
I didn't like the ship battle actually. It felt too cartoonish for GoT and like it belonged in American Gods or 300 instead.

The rest of the cinematography was fucking great though; the transitions with the pie and book being shelved were smooth as fuck


Spoiler:
The "Battle of the Bastards" literally had a giant-sized wall of corpses. Literally: it was as big as the giant, and Jon Snow was suffocating under it. Capped off with Ricken forgetting how to Zig-Zag...

The battles against major crazies seem to be cartoonish in general. Or maybe just with Ramsey Bolton / Snow. Not only was there the lack of Zig-Zag, there was the Armor-less fight vs Yara (where Yara is unable to throw an Axe against the shirtless guy, but is able to throw Axes up a wall against a fully armored soldier).

Not that "cartoony" is bad necessarily. But I never really considered the GoT scenes to be much different than say 300. We've got Dragons in a gladiator ring over there, Dragonfire blowing up fleets over there... a battle on a 500-foot tall Enchanted Ice Wall with Motherfucking Giants riding motherfucking mammoths.


Game of Thrones big action scenes are the most "cartoony" part of the show in general. The show seems decent at 1v1 Duels, and groups of small men (3v3 or 5v5), at least your standard Hollywood affair where people refuse to stab major characters in the back, and hang back to attack people 1v1 instead of 3vs1.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:58 pm UTC

Season 7, ep 2
Spoiler:
I liked the idea of the battle at the end more than I liked the execution. Okay, sure, it's night, but I'd still like to see what's going on. And it was pretty poorly edited, which made it even harder to follow.

But seeing Euron backing up all his swagger and talk? That was great.

Watching Theon's inner turmoil was pretty great. Not surprising at all that he just ran, but I liked seeing it play out.

Sad that we may never see Nymeria again, though it makes sense she's found her own way by this point. Much like Arya.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:00 pm UTC

Are people generally liking the new season so far? I haven't bothered watching it because I felt last season was kind of Meh. But I guess with the hype around the show now I'm being tempted.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:39 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Are people generally liking the new season so far? I haven't bothered watching it because I felt last season was kind of Meh. But I guess with the hype around the show now I'm being tempted.


I like it better so far than season 6.

The storyline is far more compressed so far, which has benefits as well as downsides. The time for setup is basically over: shit gets done every episode, leaving much less room for the character development and drama of the past seasons. On the other hand, so much stuff is going down that its rather exciting.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:47 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Are people generally liking the new season so far? I haven't bothered watching it because I felt last season was kind of Meh. But I guess with the hype around the show now I'm being tempted.


I watched Episode 1 with friends who had HBO because I am cheap and didn't want to buy HBO if it wasn't going to be worth it.

I subscribed to HBO yesterday and watched episodes 1 and 2 last night with my wife. We are happy with our purchase. We then realized (after surfing HBO's 8 channel listings offered to my cable company) that we should have done this a long time ago because we can just start watching movies at home instead of getting a babysitter to see a movie at the theaters, spending close to 100 bucks for that whole night. Now we can just sit at home with our popcorn machine (greatest invention ever) and it's like we are at a theater. Plus it helps justify that huge TV I bought on prime day that I put in the basement too.

TL;DR: watch it, you won't be sad.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:50 pm UTC

We're already paying for Hulu and sharing a Netflix account, so I don't know if we'll subscribe to HBO. But I think you can get a free month through Hulu, so maybe once the season is over I'll watch it through that. We still need to watch American Gods but Stars has even less interesting things than HBO for us...
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:46 pm UTC

S7E02 spoilers:
Spoiler:
It seems like there's some continuity errors this season:

Stannis tells Sam that there is dragonglass in Dragonstone and intends on mining it back in season 5. I'm not sure why this is made out to be such a revelation... both Sam and Jon should already have this information.

While I liked Dany's conversation with Varys about where his allegiance is, this scene feels like it should have happened in last season when Varys was first added to Dany's entourage. This seems very, very late in coming.

Again, while I liked the scene with Arya and Hot Pie (creepy detachment Arya is creepy), but surely she would have already have learned about Winterfell and Jon by now, since this information would have been pretty notable to the Freys (who, honestly, would likely have been preparing for war with the North).

On the other hand, I find it odd that all of the leaders in the North, plus Sansa and Littlefinger, have apparently all accepted Jon's claims about the White Walkers and the army of the dead without any reservation.

I know that the show plays very loose with the geography, but it amuses me that nobody batted an eye at Tyrion's plan to have their ships sail all the way around the continent in the dead of winter (~3000 miles in book geography) to attack Casterly Rock.

I'm also a little confused about what exactly has happened to the Dothraki. Do they not have any new leadership? Why aren't any of them included in Dany's councils? How is Dany dealing with the fact that the Dothraki culture is big on rape, pillage and slavery? Honestly, Cersei and Jaime kind of have a point about what bringing them to Westeros is likely to mean.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:05 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:S7E02 spoilers:
Spoiler:
It seems like there's some continuity errors this season:

Stannis tells Sam that there is dragonglass in Dragonstone and intends on mining it back in season 5. I'm not sure why this is made out to be such a revelation... both Sam and Jon should already have this information.

While I liked Dany's conversation with Varys about where his allegiance is, this scene feels like it should have happened in last season when Varys was first added to Dany's entourage. This seems very, very late in coming.

Again, while I liked the scene with Arya and Hot Pie (creepy detachment Arya is creepy), but surely she would have already have learned about Winterfell and Jon by now, since this information would have been pretty notable to the Freys (who, honestly, would likely have been preparing for war with the North).

On the other hand, I find it odd that all of the leaders in the North, plus Sansa and Littlefinger, have apparently all accepted Jon's claims about the White Walkers and the army of the dead without any reservation.

I know that the show plays very loose with the geography, but it amuses me that nobody batted an eye at Tyrion's plan to have their ships sail all the way around the continent in the dead of winter (~3000 miles in book geography) to attack Casterly Rock.

I'm also a little confused about what exactly has happened to the Dothraki. Do they not have any new leadership? Why aren't any of them included in Dany's councils? How is Dany dealing with the fact that the Dothraki culture is big on rape, pillage and slavery? Honestly, Cersei and Jaime kind of have a point about what bringing them to Westeros is likely to mean.


These are the sorts of things I've stopped paying attention to because of Season 6.

Spoiler:
Such as Wun-Wun the Giant's insistence to enter the Battle of the Bastards unarmed. The two other Giants during the battle for Castle Black used tree-sized Bow-and-Arrows to pelt the Night's Watch from afar.

The last giant went unarmed inside of the tunnel only because he had to drop all of his weapons to open up the gate (after the Mammoths ran away / died). Standard movie rule of course: the good guys must be seen as disadvantaged in these epic fights... standard Hollywood rule.

The Dothraki thing is not new either. Danny killed them all in Season 6, which apparently makes her the leader. It didn't make sense back then, it still doesn't make much sense now. But its a shortcut to move the story along.


In any case, the story has begun to take shortcuts... more so than before. Its the natural result of the writers trying to get the story done before GRRM actually writes the books.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:10 pm UTC

Apparently HBO has an interactive map, only view it if you wish to see spoilers as it updates with each episode and where everyone is. LInk in the spoiler:

Spoiler:
http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-7/episode-2/map/location/18/dragonstone

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:42 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:S07E02
Spoiler:
I didn't like the ship battle actually. It felt too cartoonish for GoT and like it belonged in American Gods or 300 instead.

The rest of the cinematography was fucking great though; the transitions with the pie and book being shelved were smooth as fuck


Spoiler:
The "Battle of the Bastards" literally had a giant-sized wall of corpses. Literally: it was as big as the giant, and Jon Snow was suffocating under it. Capped off with Ricken forgetting how to Zig-Zag...

The battles against major crazies seem to be cartoonish in general. Or maybe just with Ramsey Bolton / Snow. Not only was there the lack of Zig-Zag, there was the Armor-less fight vs Yara (where Yara is unable to throw an Axe against the shirtless guy, but is able to throw Axes up a wall against a fully armored soldier).

Not that "cartoony" is bad necessarily. But I never really considered the GoT scenes to be much different than say 300. We've got Dragons in a gladiator ring over there, Dragonfire blowing up fleets over there... a battle on a 500-foot tall Enchanted Ice Wall with Motherfucking Giants riding motherfucking mammoths.


Game of Thrones big action scenes are the most "cartoony" part of the show in general. The show seems decent at 1v1 Duels, and groups of small men (3v3 or 5v5), at least your standard Hollywood affair where people refuse to stab major characters in the back, and hang back to attack people 1v1 instead of 3vs1.


Spoiler:
Oh, I didn't mean cartoony in a sense about the realism of the fight choreography, I meant in terms of the cinematography and editing. Battle of the bastards and blackwater are still shot with a more natural colour palette, less jumpy editing, and more consistent use of slomo. That's what I meant by the comparison to American Gods and 300, those both have very deliberately unnatural colourings and editing with the speed of the footage sloshing between normal and slow.

not really about cartoonishness, but I found the battle kinda immersion-breaking generally. That much fire being thrown even after the flagship's rammed a foe which is already on fire is suicidal. Maybe I've been spoilt by Black Sails' naval battles, but, well, at least having them stop throwing fireballs once Euron successfully rammed would have helped a lot.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:20 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:S07E02
Spoiler:
I didn't like the ship battle actually. It felt too cartoonish for GoT and like it belonged in American Gods or 300 instead.

The rest of the cinematography was fucking great though; the transitions with the pie and book being shelved were smooth as fuck


Spoiler:
The "Battle of the Bastards" literally had a giant-sized wall of corpses. Literally: it was as big as the giant, and Jon Snow was suffocating under it. Capped off with Ricken forgetting how to Zig-Zag...

The battles against major crazies seem to be cartoonish in general. Or maybe just with Ramsey Bolton / Snow. Not only was there the lack of Zig-Zag, there was the Armor-less fight vs Yara (where Yara is unable to throw an Axe against the shirtless guy, but is able to throw Axes up a wall against a fully armored soldier).

Not that "cartoony" is bad necessarily. But I never really considered the GoT scenes to be much different than say 300. We've got Dragons in a gladiator ring over there, Dragonfire blowing up fleets over there... a battle on a 500-foot tall Enchanted Ice Wall with Motherfucking Giants riding motherfucking mammoths.


Game of Thrones big action scenes are the most "cartoony" part of the show in general. The show seems decent at 1v1 Duels, and groups of small men (3v3 or 5v5), at least your standard Hollywood affair where people refuse to stab major characters in the back, and hang back to attack people 1v1 instead of 3vs1.


Spoiler:
Oh, I didn't mean cartoony in a sense about the realism of the fight choreography, I meant in terms of the cinematography and editing. Battle of the bastards and blackwater are still shot with a more natural colour palette, less jumpy editing, and more consistent use of slomo. That's what I meant by the comparison to American Gods and 300, those both have very deliberately unnatural colourings and editing with the speed of the footage sloshing between normal and slow.

not really about cartoonishness, but I found the battle kinda immersion-breaking generally. That much fire being thrown even after the flagship's rammed a foe which is already on fire is suicidal. Maybe I've been spoilt by Black Sails' naval battles, but, well, at least having them stop throwing fireballs once Euron successfully rammed would have helped a lot.


Spoiler:
Except it's the ironmen being led by the mad Euron.

I'll admit, I at first thought like you did: why are they still throwing fire? Surely with Yara being taken fairly quickly the rest of her fleet would likely surrender and be given the Silent-ship mate treatment (them cutting the tongues out, a very subtle hat tip to a part in the books that was never revealed til now). But you gotta remember, the man is mad, and wants to impress a mad cersei.

What I'm still puzzled about is exactly how many ships Yara had with her.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:41 pm UTC

So, the sand Vipers are established in the show for like, always poisoning their weapons right?
Spoiler:
So, on a scale of one to the purple wedding, how poisoned is Euron after that fight?
There's no way he survives the next episode is there? I'm surprised he lived to the end of this episode.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:05 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:So, the sand Vipers are established in the show for like, always poisoning their weapons right?
Spoiler:
So, on a scale of one to the purple wedding, how poisoned is Euron after that fight?
There's no way he survives the next episode is there? I'm surprised he lived to the end of this episode.


Spoiler:
Depends on whether Euron was prepared or not. When Bronn was poisoned in battle, he survived for a day or so, long enough for the antidote to be administered. If Euron knew about their poison, he could have simply walked back to his ship and then drank an antidote.

Considering the rule of epic villainy, Euron is hyping himself to be the final boss, possibly as "final" as the the Night King himself. I don't expect Euron to die before Season 7.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:So, the sand Vipers are established in the show for like, always poisoning their weapons right?
Spoiler:
So, on a scale of one to the purple wedding, how poisoned is Euron after that fight?
There's no way he survives the next episode is there? I'm surprised he lived to the end of this episode.


Spoiler:
They were also surprised so their weapons were probably not pre-poisoned. Its not clear how long that should take to do properly but I imagine its not super fast. Probably like oiling up a blade when taking care of it so at least a couple of min which they probably didnt have.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:30 am UTC

trpmb6 wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:S07E02
Spoiler:
I didn't like the ship battle actually. It felt too cartoonish for GoT and like it belonged in American Gods or 300 instead.

The rest of the cinematography was fucking great though; the transitions with the pie and book being shelved were smooth as fuck


Spoiler:
The "Battle of the Bastards" literally had a giant-sized wall of corpses. Literally: it was as big as the giant, and Jon Snow was suffocating under it. Capped off with Ricken forgetting how to Zig-Zag...

The battles against major crazies seem to be cartoonish in general. Or maybe just with Ramsey Bolton / Snow. Not only was there the lack of Zig-Zag, there was the Armor-less fight vs Yara (where Yara is unable to throw an Axe against the shirtless guy, but is able to throw Axes up a wall against a fully armored soldier).

Not that "cartoony" is bad necessarily. But I never really considered the GoT scenes to be much different than say 300. We've got Dragons in a gladiator ring over there, Dragonfire blowing up fleets over there... a battle on a 500-foot tall Enchanted Ice Wall with Motherfucking Giants riding motherfucking mammoths.


Game of Thrones big action scenes are the most "cartoony" part of the show in general. The show seems decent at 1v1 Duels, and groups of small men (3v3 or 5v5), at least your standard Hollywood affair where people refuse to stab major characters in the back, and hang back to attack people 1v1 instead of 3vs1.


Spoiler:
Oh, I didn't mean cartoony in a sense about the realism of the fight choreography, I meant in terms of the cinematography and editing. Battle of the bastards and blackwater are still shot with a more natural colour palette, less jumpy editing, and more consistent use of slomo. That's what I meant by the comparison to American Gods and 300, those both have very deliberately unnatural colourings and editing with the speed of the footage sloshing between normal and slow.

not really about cartoonishness, but I found the battle kinda immersion-breaking generally. That much fire being thrown even after the flagship's rammed a foe which is already on fire is suicidal. Maybe I've been spoilt by Black Sails' naval battles, but, well, at least having them stop throwing fireballs once Euron successfully rammed would have helped a lot.


Spoiler:
Except it's the ironmen being led by the mad Euron.

I'll admit, I at first thought like you did: why are they still throwing fire? Surely with Yara being taken fairly quickly the rest of her fleet would likely surrender and be given the Silent-ship mate treatment (them cutting the tongues out, a very subtle hat tip to a part in the books that was never revealed til now). But you gotta remember, the man is mad, and wants to impress a mad cersei.

What I'm still puzzled about is exactly how many ships Yara had with her.


Spoiler:
Euron's vicious and brutal and reckless but he isn't suicidal. At least, not in the books, and it certainly hasn't been established as part of his character previously in the show.


Chen wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:So, the sand Vipers are established in the show for like, always poisoning their weapons right?
Spoiler:
So, on a scale of one to the purple wedding, how poisoned is Euron after that fight?
There's no way he survives the next episode is there? I'm surprised he lived to the end of this episode.


Spoiler:
They were also surprised so their weapons were probably not pre-poisoned. Its not clear how long that should take to do properly but I imagine its not super fast. Probably like oiling up a blade when taking care of it so at least a couple of min which they probably didnt have.


Spoiler:
Lots of antique weapon dealers recommend leaving some oil on blades to help prevent rust. If you're using oil-soluble poisons you could totally leave your weapons (lightly) poisoned fulltime if you so chose.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:08 am UTC

Zohar wrote:Are people generally liking the new season so far? I haven't bothered watching it because I felt last season was kind of Meh. But I guess with the hype around the show now I'm being tempted.
I have no idea yet if I would recommend it. The start wasn't as slow as previous seasons but the show is still just setting up all the conflicts for the season and how well its doing that will certainly be affected retroactively but how they are handled. As is typical for the show, it's really the latter half (and, I guess, episode 7 now that we have only 8) that will contain most of the pay off and really memorable events.

Spoiler:
Regarding Sandsnakes and poison- Euron seems to be a composite of Euron and Victarion from the books so I totally expect him to have gotten "a little" poisoned but overcome it through some mystical means. Maybe in a truly bizarre twist Ellaria will become the show composite of the Dusky Woman and Moqorro.

The overall battle was certainly stylized but nowhere near as much as 300 or the absurd opening of American Gods. The cinematography in the rest of episode was pretty good though. I am not particularly good at noticing such things but it was cool how they shot Lord Tarly so that half his face was always in shadow- really played up the idea that we are not sure on which side he is or what he's thinking.

On that note it looks like Jaime is still backing Cersei which I find a little weird. That's maybe the only storyline in the show that's still lagging behind the books.


trpmb6 wrote:
Spoiler:
Sansa is one of those characters who will continue to be vexxing to us all precisely because we don't understand her role yet. But I think that is the point. There are still too many story lines moving right now. They're all about to converge and I think that is when you will see Sansa brought to the forefront and her true role shown.
Spoiler:
That's the most frustrating part! I think she has a major role to play in the endgame but nothing before that. Because the show can't just drop the character for 3+ seasons, she is given stuff to do but that stuff is not allowed to have meaningful consequences- not for the way events unfold, not for the other character's development, not even for her own growth.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:28 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Spoiler:
Sansa is one of those characters who will continue to be vexxing to us all precisely because we don't understand her role yet. But I think that is the point. There are still too many story lines moving right now. They're all about to converge and I think that is when you will see Sansa brought to the forefront and her true role shown.
Spoiler:
That's the most frustrating part! I think she has a major role to play in the endgame but nothing before that. Because the show can't just drop the character for 3+ seasons, she is given stuff to do but that stuff is not allowed to have meaningful consequences- not for the way events unfold, not for the other character's development, not even for her own growth.


We all know Sansa is going to turn into Dark Pheonix and kick everyone's ass.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Flumble » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:05 pm UTC

...bringing us back to the posts at the top of this page about how the actors are the characters in GoT. :roll:

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:28 pm UTC

s7ep03
Spoiler:
Ok, I finally found myself really (actually extremely) annoyed at the pace of this season last night. I think the final straw was when we see Jaime in King's landing in one scene, and then just a few cuts later with the entirety of the Lannister army from Casterly Rock at Highgarden. Now, presumably Jaime could have simply met up with the army at Highgarden. But seriously, the whole timing in all of this just doesn't make much sense. They are taking some serious liberties with time on this one.

Just watch, next episode Jon Snow will already have a massive amount of dragon glass mined and smithed (is that even the right word for working with obsidian?) into weapons and delivered to winterfell. Oh, and Sansa will be going into labor. Because you know, we don't care about timelines anymore. What's 9 months at this point.

Also, did Bran look weird to anyone else this episode? He almost seemed CGI'd. Just such an odd face shape.

Finally, glad we now know who killed jofrey.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby arbiteroftruth » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:23 pm UTC

Dude, we've known (S4)
Spoiler:
who killed Joffrey since a couple episodes after it happened. It's such stale information it doesn't even really deserve these spoiler tags.
Last edited by arbiteroftruth on Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:51 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:35 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:s7ep03
Spoiler:
Ok, I finally found myself really (actually extremely) annoyed at the pace of this season last night. I think the final straw was when we see Jaime in King's landing in one scene, and then just a few cuts later with the entirety of the Lannister army from Casterly Rock at Highgarden. Now, presumably Jaime could have simply met up with the army at Highgarden. But seriously, the whole timing in all of this just doesn't make much sense. They are taking some serious liberties with time on this one.

Just watch, next episode Jon Snow will already have a massive amount of dragon glass mined and smithed (is that even the right word for working with obsidian?) into weapons and delivered to winterfell. Oh, and Sansa will be going into labor. Because you know, we don't care about timelines anymore. What's 9 months at this point.

Also, did Bran look weird to anyone else this episode? He almost seemed CGI'd. Just such an odd face shape.

Finally, glad we now know who killed jofrey.


Spoiler:
As ArbiterofTruth notes: we've known about King Joffrey since season 4. Olenna was behind the plot the entire time. The important tidbit is that Cersei now knows who killed Joffrey... and possibly Jamie's suspicions of Tyrion can be cleared.

IIRC, Jamie believes Tyrion killed Joffrey ever since their daddy died on the toilet. This could be the start of Jamie believing in Tyrion again.


With regards to pacing: this is only natural. The show writers have much less time to make a plot, while GRRM spends literally years hashing away and refining plotpoints. The ridiculous pacing and "teleporting" of characters throughout the setting ramped up severely in Season 6, when the show-writers began to take over.

"Character Teleports" happened pretty much every time the show-writers took hold of the plot. The fact remains: the Game of Thrones TV audience doesn't have easy access to a map, while the "book audience" has a map at the back of each book. So the show writers take advantage of this and move characters based on drama, as opposed to logic.

GRRM works as hard as he can to make a compelling story while also logically consistent: with regards to travel times, locations and all that. I know we all want him to work faster, but the show-writers demonstrate what happens when the story is rushed. HBO needs to make money, the actors aren't getting any younger, there are contracts they need to balance. The show must go on.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Grop » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:15 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:"Character Teleports" happened pretty much every time the show-writers took hold of the plot. The fact remains: the Game of Thrones TV audience doesn't have easy access to a map, while the "book audience" has a map at the back of each book. So the show writers take advantage of this and move characters based on drama, as opposed to logic.


Except we can see a map on every opening. It is actually something very good about this series: one can easily figure where things happen.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:41 pm UTC

arbiteroftruth wrote:Dude, we've known (S4)
Spoiler:
who killed Joffrey since a couple episodes after it happened.




Spoiler:
It wasn't explicit in season four. Olenna only said: "You don't think I'd let you marry that beast, do you?".

Littlefinger did tell Sansa a fanciful story about how he had ser Hollard become friends with Sansa and to give her a necklace which had a fake jewel with poison in it. But at this point we don't really know if Littlefinger is just telling us a story (to gain favor with Sansa) or if he's actually telling the truth. In fact in the books it is even less descriptive leading you to still question who really did it (GRRM is quite good at that, I'm sure by design). Still, I suppose you're right. Littlefinger was clearly telling the truth. So we've 'known' without an affirmed confirmation. Let's just amend my original post to say "I'm glad we have a firm confirmation on who killed Joff."

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:07 pm UTC

Discussion on the role's of certain characters in the end
Spoiler:
For most of the characters it seems mostly clear what their roles are expanding to be or will be near the end. But what about a few of the following...

Sam - If the writers were concerned about time this season why have they dedicated so much to Sam? Aside from possible contractual obligations that might exist the only reason to continue giving him expensive air time is because he has a major role later. Most of Sam's scenes could have easily been dealt with using a Raven with a message. Instead we got 4 or 5 minutes of him cleaning chamber pots. Looks like filler to me. One theory I have (in concert with others) is that he is the overall narrator of the story and is writing it all down in a book at an old age which is revealed to us in the last season 8 episode. At this point he is the grand maester, serving at king's landing. But what may be far more likely is he is eventually dispatched from the citadel on some sort of quest to help Jon.

tl;dr: his role seems minor now but the writers are giving him precious air time for a reason

Sansa - Unlike Sam, who is isolated, Sansa is more interconnected with the story line. But her role in that main story line seems to be to mainly antagonize Jon Snow and to give Littlefinger something to gaze upon. At this point, what seems most likely is once Jon is informed he is a Targaryen he will relinquish control of Winterfell to Sansa who would become warden (queen?) in the north. It's not clear to me how the north will react to Jon being a targaryen, but yet still have stark blood. They may not take kindly to it and so they may demand he step down and give control to Sansa (especially since Jon is not Ned's son at that point).

tl;dr: Sansa becomes warden (queen) in the north


Three Eyed Raven (Bran) - I don't think his role is major at this point. Beyond telling Jon his true heritage and then helping Jon in keeping track of where the dead army is located.

Littlefinger - Not even going to speculate, beyond the idea that he clearly wants to marry Sansa and that he has his little fingers into all facets of the storyline at this point.

Ser Jorah - sans grayscale he told Sam he was going to go meet up with Dany. But what value does he even really add at this point. Probably little. So why spend so much air time on him this season already?


tl;dr :
Spoiler:
There are several characters they seem to dedicate a lot of air time too but don't have clear roles. Yet the ones who seem pivotal to the story seem to get very little air time. Perhaps this is a money thing and they don't want to pay the high dollar people anymore? Or do they have more important roles later? See above spoiler for details.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:31 pm UTC

Grop wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:"Character Teleports" happened pretty much every time the show-writers took hold of the plot. The fact remains: the Game of Thrones TV audience doesn't have easy access to a map, while the "book audience" has a map at the back of each book. So the show writers take advantage of this and move characters based on drama, as opposed to logic.


Except we can see a map on every opening. It is actually something very good about this series: one can easily figure where things happen.


Lets look at the opening in detail then, shall we? Season 7's opening is: King's Landing, Dragonstone, The Twins, Winterfell, The Wall, and Oldtown. That's it, not a lot of locations at all.

Season7 / Episode 3:
Spoiler:
And since all the action happened in Casterly Rock and Highgarden last episode, the map this season was thoroughly useless. As such, its reasonable to have characters teleporting between the locations, because the TV watching audience doesn't know how far apart the locations are.


In contrast, its trivial to stick your finger on page 100, flip to the back to consult the map, and then flip back to page 100 if you so desire. Books are a better medium for some of these things. "Character Teleports" and "ambiguous geography" are more common in Films and TV Shows.

And more importantly: the map in the books are actually complete. The incomplete map of the opening is completely useless with regards to understanding the geography of Season7 / Episode3.

Don't get me wrong, the opening credit roll is extremely cool. But its not useful as a reference. Not at all.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Chen » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:40 pm UTC

The opening does give relative locations of places to one another. It doesn't give a good sense of scale though. I mean the books are poor like that too if I recall. I don't think many of the book maps have a scale on them either. A lot of the maps I've seen online tend to base most of their scaling on the fact that the wall is "300 miles long" and go from there.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:54 pm UTC

Eh, the show has always played fast and loose with time and how long it takes to get anywhere.

As far as episode 3:
Spoiler:
We last see Jaime & Euron in King's Landing. Then some time later, Euron's fleet is on the other side of the island at Casterly Rock and Jaime is with the Lannister army taking over Highgarden. Which is happening around the time Jon is at Dragonstone (after a pretty decent journey from Winterfell->sea->Dragonstone).

It doesn't feel like a huge stretch to me overall.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:57 pm UTC

All of that goes out the window when you consider HBO provides an interactive map (Be warned, there are spoilers if you visit it.): http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-th ... terly-rock

We should be fair to the fan base. Most of them are quite aware of the distances between places. Indeed, many of the fan site forums are complaining about this very issue. Granted, fandom sites tend to attract hardcore fans. Even so, even my wife (she's never read the books, looks at her phone most of time watching the show) commented on how it was weird that
Spoiler:
Jaime teleported from king's landing to high garden in the same episode.
There are things that just don't feel right in context. That was one of them.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:00 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:Eh, the show has always played fast and loose with time and how long it takes to get anywhere.

As far as episode 3:
Spoiler:
We last see Jaime & Euron in King's Landing. Then some time later, Euron's fleet is on the other side of the island at Casterly Rock and Jaime is with the Lannister army taking over Highgarden. Which is happening around the time Jon is at Dragonstone (after a pretty decent journey from Winterfell->sea->Dragonstone).

It doesn't feel like a huge stretch to me overall.


Spoiler:
Yes, but in the context of Cersei telling the representative for the Iron Bank she will have payment for him in two weeks it doesn't add up.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby doogly » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:32 pm UTC

I think it's actually been better now, because it's a more uniform speedup. When you have one character trudging on a journey while someone else is teleporting, it's jarring. The last episode just seems like some boring bits are being elided. Fine.

Also, the absolute distances are not so clear, because there's no real sensible answer to that question. It wants the climactic diversity of North America but the political sweep of England. Weird world.
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