Doctor Whom

Jorpho · Postby **Jorpho** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:27 am UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, it used to be a thing with Timelords only being able to control the Tardis properly (which is why it was such a big deal that River could control it but she was born in the Tardis so half timelord). That's obviously gone by the wayside now. Basically anyone can have their own Tardis.

Spoiler:

rmsgrey · Postby **rmsgrey** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:41 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, it used to be a thing with Timelords only being able to control the Tardis properly (which is why it was such a big deal that River could control it but she was born in the Tardis so half timelord). That's obviously gone by the wayside now. Basically anyone can have their own Tardis.
Spoiler:
Eh, Ashildur managed to persist four and a half billion years until the end of the universe. Not quite "anyone".

... On that note, isn't this the third time we've seen the supposed "end of the universe" ? The first was when Captain Jack came running at the Tardis, and the second was that terrible episode with the Doctor being afraid of the dark and Mr. Pink's descendant having a malfunctioning time machine, or whatever it was (ugh).

Seems to be a pretty popular place. Someone should open up a restaurant there.

Though it has also looked different each time...

Echo244 · Postby **Echo244** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
That's obviously gone by the wayside now. Basically anyone can have their own Tardis.

Spoiler:

rmsgrey · Postby **rmsgrey** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:55 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:
Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
That's obviously gone by the wayside now. Basically anyone can have their own Tardis.

Spoiler:
That's kind of why I like this so much. It's no longer about waiting for the clever man in the magic box to turn up and wave his ~~magic wand~~ sonic screwdriver around and save the day.

The thing with him is that he's just functionally immortal, so he can get away with it.

Oh, wait, Ashilde/Me is functionally immortal through having some sort of nano-medkit applied to her, and lived through to the end of the universe as a consequence. And Clara's living out the last of a veeeeeeeeery looooooong slow last heartbeat before an unavoidable death to that raven. So she can't be killed by anything else in the meantime, probably, otherwise bad timey-wimey things will happen.

And the Doctor stole another TARDIS, then Clara and Ashilde stole it from him.

And that changes things. It's not about a universe revolving around a Special Snowflake called The Doctor any more. Other people can have adventures too, turn up, be clever and brave, save the day, fly away. It being open to other people is something I love, as a message. It's telling you that you can be like this, not that you need someone like this to turn up and save you. For a drama, nyuh, it questions the point of a character's role in the story. For a family show that's got, as I understand it, reasonably strong following of kids? I love it. Exactly what I'd want to put in their moist, impressionable brains. ;-D

What she said.

One of the things I disliked about Russell T. Davies' run in charge was the whole Lonely God thing - the idea that the Doctor was the single most powerful being in existence (at least if you judge by what he achieves, not necessarily by measuring the resources he has available to do it with) and feared or respected by everyone who knew anything has still been there through Moffat's run, but there has been an effort to hide it - to be a passing stranger rather than a cosmic celebrity - except when he gets sufficiently upset about something and starts making threats.

I'm less convinced about the whole irreplaceable best-friends-forever thing that Moffat's been continuing to embrace with the Companions - yes, Clara has been special to this Doctor, but he's had special people before, and lost them, and moved on and found someone new - sometimes even run into old companions again when he's managed to let them go at the time. It seems like the only way to stop traveling with the Doctor nowadays is to be forcibly prevented by some disaster...

Echo244 · Postby **Echo244** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:15 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Echo244 wrote:
Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
That's obviously gone by the wayside now. Basically anyone can have their own Tardis.

Spoiler:
That's kind of why I like this so much. It's no longer about waiting for the clever man in the magic box to turn up and wave his ~~magic wand~~ sonic screwdriver around and save the day.

The thing with him is that he's just functionally immortal, so he can get away with it.

Oh, wait, Ashilde/Me is functionally immortal through having some sort of nano-medkit applied to her, and lived through to the end of the universe as a consequence. And Clara's living out the last of a veeeeeeeeery looooooong slow last heartbeat before an unavoidable death to that raven. So she can't be killed by anything else in the meantime, probably, otherwise bad timey-wimey things will happen.

And the Doctor stole another TARDIS, then Clara and Ashilde stole it from him.

And that changes things. It's not about a universe revolving around a Special Snowflake called The Doctor any more. Other people can have adventures too, turn up, be clever and brave, save the day, fly away. It being open to other people is something I love, as a message. It's telling you that you can be like this, not that you need someone like this to turn up and save you. For a drama, nyuh, it questions the point of a character's role in the story. For a family show that's got, as I understand it, reasonably strong following of kids? I love it. Exactly what I'd want to put in their moist, impressionable brains. ;-D

What she said.

One of the things I disliked about Russell T. Davies' run in charge was the whole Lonely God thing - the idea that the Doctor was the single most powerful being in existence (at least if you judge by what he achieves, not necessarily by measuring the resources he has available to do it with) and feared or respected by everyone who knew anything has still been there through Moffat's run, but there has been an effort to hide it - to be a passing stranger rather than a cosmic celebrity - except when he gets sufficiently upset about something and starts making threats.

I'm less convinced about the whole irreplaceable best-friends-forever thing that Moffat's been continuing to embrace with the Companions - yes, Clara has been special to this Doctor, but he's had special people before, and lost them, and moved on and found someone new - sometimes even run into old companions again when he's managed to let them go at the time. It seems like the only way to stop traveling with the Doctor nowadays is to be forcibly prevented by some disaster...

Spoiler:

rmsgrey · Postby **rmsgrey** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:48 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:I'm less convinced about the whole irreplaceable best-friends-forever thing that Moffat's been continuing to embrace with the Companions - yes, Clara has been special to this Doctor, but he's had special people before, and lost them, and moved on and found someone new - sometimes even run into old companions again when he's managed to let them go at the time. It seems like the only way to stop traveling with the Doctor nowadays is to be forcibly prevented by some disaster...

Spoiler:
Yup, always some disaster forcibly preventing things from continuing. And I kind of like the idea that Clara *was* the disaster, in some ways. And the parting of the Doctor and Clara was not "Oh! Woe is you! You are forever out of the life of the Special Snowflake! Weep for the bazillions of cool things you will never do because you are no longer his Companion!", it was more "We're not good for each other, neither of us has to exactly stop, let's just go our separate ways. In separate stolen time machines."

The more I think about this ending, the more I'm liking it. It's more equal and normal and healthy.

Spoiler:

Flumble · Postby **Flumble** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:29 pm UTC

I finally got around to watch the last 4 episodes and read all the spoiler text in here.

Regarding Sleep No More: meh. It's basically 45 minutes of Paranormal Activity and clickbait. I can't imagine a child that's properly scared of the sand men now –the plot was probably too contrived in the end. Perhaps I'm too critical since I've seen the same atmosphere in Sunshine, and there the tension was executed excellently. They could've made the sand men grow out of ~~thin air~~ the floating dust. That would not only wisely spend the budget on CGI instead of silly plot, but also make children scared of dust so they clean their rooms more often. :twisted:

Regarding Face the Raven: can't say much else than "nice!". Or wait, I do: a death sentence for stealing necessary medical supplies? Me should know by now that harsh punishments (stealing isn't even a violent crime, that's robbery) don't make a society safer.
I really liked it when Me revealed that she made a deal with the raven, and then felt bad for Clara's plan to backfire horrendously. A glorious death for a glorious season (except for Sleep No More).

Regarding Heaven Sent: I'm thinking they started the story with his confession dial (that's a proper Chekov' gun right? It was pointed out at the start of the season and again just before teleporting) being a proper time loop and then someone thought "hey, he can end up on gallifrey after leaving the dial, we just need some way to have a lot of space-time pass by –why not put an arbitrary reset mechanism in the dial instead of having a proper bootstrap-loop?".
...and then someone was so stupid to say "alright" instead of "Shut up, Wesley!".
There's also a bit of plot-residue left from when the dial was actually unlocking (with the castle being ~~a metaphor for~~ the lock of course) every time he confessed something. Either that or it was specifically put there to get the doctor to confess a third time.

Nonetheless I enjoyed the episode. Especially that, for once, the main character learns that it is their nightmare/torture/interrogation and then using that information. "Death" turned into a nuisance rather than a scary monster after the doctor's escape out the window. It's a pity that in the end it wasn't as introspective as I hoped it to be; the whole confession monster was designed by others, instead of it being a dissociation in the doctor's mind.

Regarding Hell Bent: whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Spoiler:

For the love of the universe, just keep the companion dead. Clara's death was sad and beautiful. Now the whole previous episode means nothing. Well, not nothing of course, but to me it really loses a lot of its charm.

rmsgrey wrote:
Echo244 wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:I'm less convinced about the whole irreplaceable best-friends-forever thing that Moffat's been continuing to embrace with the Companions - yes, Clara has been special to this Doctor, but he's had special people before, and lost them, and moved on and found someone new - sometimes even run into old companions again when he's managed to let them go at the time. It seems like the only way to stop traveling with the Doctor nowadays is to be forcibly prevented by some disaster...

Spoiler:
Yup, always some disaster forcibly preventing things from continuing. And I kind of like the idea that Clara *was* the disaster, in some ways. And the parting of the Doctor and Clara was not "Oh! Woe is you! You are forever out of the life of the Special Snowflake! Weep for the bazillions of cool things you will never do because you are no longer his Companion!", it was more "We're not good for each other, neither of us has to exactly stop, let's just go our separate ways. In separate stolen time machines."

The more I think about this ending, the more I'm liking it. It's more equal and normal and healthy.

Spoiler:
Yeah, I like this departure a lot more than Rose's or Amy's, both of which were much better than Donna's, but it's still only a good ending to a bad relationship. I'd rather see a Companion who travels with the Doctor on a temporary basis, and moves on eventually rather than becoming inseparable - maybe by overlapping Companions a bit so that, rather than tragic separation followed by moping followed by new only-special-person-in-all-time-and-space, you get new friend followed by group of friends followed by old friend moving on...

Isn't that what Martha did? Hop on, hop off and then from time to time be part of the furniture?

Link wrote:Unrelatedly, it would be nice if the Doctor got a non-21st century human companion for a change (i.e. either non-human, or a human from a different era). There have been some major recurring characters who fit that bill, but apart from Handles, I think the last "real" companion who wasn't a human from the 21st century was Jack Harkness.

For humans, I'd say maybe go for someone from pre-industrial Asia. There's a rather glaring lack of Asian main characters. Non-humans may be trickier; heavy prosthetics aren't great for a regular companion, and I don't really think they'd go for a "looks exactly like a human but isn't" type of character, unless it's an alien disguised as a human (of which there have been a lot, lately, so maybe it's not that far-fetched).

I'm all in, but the guys producing the show probably think that an alien companion (either in form or culture) would alienate a lot of the audience. And it probably does.
Maybe it's also a good thing to have one character with contemporary Western values and one character with (contemporary Western) ideological values. Keeps the show's feet on the ground.

rmsgrey · Postby **rmsgrey** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:20 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:Isn't that what Martha did? Hop on, hop off and then from time to time be part of the furniture?

Yep, unlike Rose, Donna, Amy or Clara. One out of five modern Companions has successfully walked away rather than meeting some terrible fate...

Flumble · Postby **Flumble** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:16 pm UTC

'Twas a lovely christmassy episode.
The comedy was done really well considering the ubiquity, although "the only gay in the village" (don't know him by any other name :roll:

) somehow got the least depth and laughs.
And the symbolism at the end was executed wonderfully.

Spoiler:

rmsgrey wrote:
Flumble wrote:Isn't that what Martha did? Hop on, hop off and then from time to time be part of the furniture?

Yep, unlike Rose, Donna, Amy or Clara. One out of five modern Companions has successfully walked away rather than meeting some terrible fate...

Yeah, I'm absolutely in favour of more companions just walking away. Sure, it's hard to leave time traveling behind you, but the future (say, 9001 years from now) offers so much to explore that you don't really need it anyway. (Why the hell did Martha stay with her family in our present? Just ask the doctor to bring her family to 3010 where they can enjoy life and a brilliant PTSS treatment)

Echo244 · Postby **Echo244** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:43 pm UTC

Matt Lucas, no?

Anyway. I kind of liked it.

Spoiler:

OP Tipping · Postby **OP Tipping** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:42 am UTC

Yes. For the most part, a light hearted breather episode, as is common for Christmas specials. I enjoyed it.

And I agree that logically

Spoiler:

This leaves us with a bit of a hole. In FOTD, The Doctor emphatically says " There's only one reason I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could. " Some time before the Library, he's told her his name for a significant reason. We've not seen it yet so either it happens unshown in some previous adventure with 11 or less likely with 10, which would be very disappointing, or it happens during this visit to the

Spoiler:

.[/quote]

If they want to resolve it perhaps they should show it in a minisode. Perhaps the Doctor feels that because he did not give his real name during TWORS, they aren't really married, so he feels he should tell her it now before spending

Spoiler:

Postby **Angua** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:10 am UTC

I thought he told her his name when he married her, back when he was still Matt Smith. Doesn't he whisper something to her then?

Echo244 · Postby **Echo244** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:22 am UTC

Isn't that

Spoiler:

Postby **Angua** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:30 am UTC

Could have been, I don't remember it very well.

Flumble · Postby **Flumble** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:31 pm UTC

Indeed

Spoiler:

Echo244 wrote:
Spoiler:
Good to see the Doctor working with someone, not just being all special-snowflake-who-fixes-everything.

Thanks for putting it into words.

"doctor, what is it?", "doctor, explain!", "doctor, what do we do?"

rmsgrey · Postby **rmsgrey** » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:12 pm UTC

OP Tipping wrote:And I agree that logically
Spoiler:
we can't see any more of River, unless it is postmortem like in The Name Of The Doctor. We know this because 1) she states in FOTD that he took her to the Towers the last time she saw him (with a suit and new haircut) and 2) she indicates in THORS that she previously thought there could be no more regenerations, so before THORS she has not seen any Doctors past 11.

Well, there's a little wiggle room still - it wouldn't be the first time a character had targeted amnesia, it's always possible to pull a Clara with River, the way River's death was resolved was pretty close to a revolving-door death in the first place, and, with River being what she is, there's always the possibility of something like the Time Lord afterlife...

charliepanayi · Postby **charliepanayi** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:26 pm UTC

Year off for the show, then Moffat's last series next year:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-01- ... s-chibnall

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:42 pm UTC

The year off is disappointing - couldn't they have at least done a season split over two years like Series 7?

As for Moffat leaving - I've enjoyed his era, and the latest season was amazing, but I assumed he wasn't planning on staying forever! If he spends the break planning something even better than Series 9, then it would be a great way to end his time on the show.

charliepanayi · Postby **charliepanayi** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:47 pm UTC

I'm actually happy about a year off, and never much cared for the having a series split in two like we've had in the past. Might help recharge some batteries.

Flumble · Postby **Flumble** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:34 pm UTC

I'm actually never happy about a year off –I'm already craving more DW after half a year.

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:58 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:I'm actually never happy about a year off –I'm already craving more DW after half a year.

~~Half a year? Even not counting the Christmas special, it's only been less than two months since the last season ended.~~
EDIT: I get what you meant now. :oops:

rmsgrey · Postby **rmsgrey** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:19 am UTC

Maybe now (or at least in a couple of years) my friends who can't stand Moffat will be tempted back. Personally, my main issue with Moffat is not his writing, but some of the scripts he's let through - such as Kill The Moon. I was a lot less happy with Russell T Davies' Lonely God...

I don't actually remember much about the 4 stories Chris Chibnall is credited with writing - 42, The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood, Dinosaurs On A Spaceship, and The Power of Three. My main memory from any of them is of Power of Three being a perfectly reasonable two-parter with the second half replaced by a quick wave of the ~~magic wand~~ sonic screwdriver and some fast talking to try to cover up the lack of a resolution...

eSOANEM · Postby **eSOANEM** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:22 am UTC

42 was pretty good. It was the one with the sentient sun possessing the crew of a space ship. That said, if Moffat's tenure has taught us anything, it's that we can't tell how good a showrunner someone'll be from the episodes they wrote.

Flumble · Postby **Flumble** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:56 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I don't actually remember much about the 4 stories Chris Chibnall is credited with writing - 42, The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood, Dinosaurs On A Spaceship, and The Power of Three. My main memory from any of them is of Power of Three being a perfectly reasonable two-parter with the second half replaced by a quick wave of the ~~magic wand~~ sonic screwdriver and some fast talking to try to cover up the lack of a resolution...

Surely you remember quite a bit of ~~Under the Dome UK~~ ~~Silurian Sleeper Sinkhole~~ The Hungry Earth? :wink:

I really hope Dinos on a Spaceship and Power of Three weren't starting a trend; I quite enjoyed the other two.

Echo244 · Postby **Echo244** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:55 pm UTC

A break for a year and then no more Moffat? Bah. I liked the turns he took, particularly Clara's story. Hopefully Chris Chibnall will walk a similar path.

Nork · Postby **Nork** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:34 pm UTC

Google is spying on me badly.

Every time I check Google's news page, their "for you" section includes a story about Doctor #10/11 (whichever one is David Tennant) and Donna Noble getting an audio series. So apparently they're tracking me enough to know I like Dr. Who, but they're not tracking me enough to realize that "and Donna Noble!" means I'm not interested.

(Also, the realization that adding Donna Noble is a dealbreaker for me helps hammer home to me that I'm getting crankier in my old age).

Now, if it had been a Dr. Who and Stormageddon spinoff, they might have had my attention.

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:51 pm UTC

Donna was my favourite companion

Nork · Postby **Nork** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:49 pm UTC

Then you're using the wrong smiley, because my post was about how they're bringing her back. Congratulations! (I may not share your joy in this, but that's okay - it's your joy, so embrace it).

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:58 pm UTC

I was sad-smiley-ing because you dislike her so much

I've not listened to any Doctor Who audios yet - are they usually good?

Nork · Postby **Nork** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:43 pm UTC

I've never encountered them before.

Also, game theory (or some sort of theory) suggests you shouldn't put much weight into my opinion. The internet being what it is, all you know about me is that your favorite character is my least favorite character, which makes me a very bad reference point on which to base your expectations. Technically there are other traits that we share like "enjoys XKCD" and "can use the internet" and "never been convicted of inciting land war in Asia" (I hope), but the #teamDonna #teamMickey rivalry is probably most relevant at the moment.

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:48 pm UTC

You make some very good points there. I won't start pushing at the "why I like this character" buttons because clearly we can have an intelligent conversation despite our differences.

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:43 pm UTC

Pearl Mackie is Bill

Moo · Postby **Moo** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:50 pm UTC

Me (watching Downton Abbey):
That actress playing Mrs Crawley, was in Doctor Who. She played Harriet Jones, MP for Flydale North
Husband (completely unironically):
I know who she is

It was rather accidentally perfect.

Jorpho · Postby **Jorpho** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:38 am UTC

I caught the special showing of the newly-restored animated Power of the Daleks at the cinema just now. Man, Classic Who is just weird. I was definitely nodding off for a minute during the middle. (What the bork is up with Patrick Troughton's flute?!)

Mutex · Postby **Mutex** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:52 am UTC

It definitely took its time compared to the reboot. Some of the stories were 8 episodes long (close to 4 hours total running time). I still prefer that though, even if sometimes it was way over long, it had time to breathe and get you invested in it.

Postby **Angua** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:06 am UTC

So, was I the only one expecting the plot to be:

Spoiler:

Mambrino · Postby **Mambrino** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:37 pm UTC

Angua wrote:So, was I the only one expecting the plot to be:

Spoiler:

Nope, that's about what I was thinking, too, until about halfway of the episode. (Or maybe that's what it is going to be about, and will be resolved later in the series.)

Spoiler:

Also,

Spoiler:

.

Spoiler:

edit. err bbcode is weirdly broken in this post? edi2. okay, apparently quotes and spoilers don't go well together.

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:56 pm UTC

Mambrino wrote:edi2. okay, apparently quotes and spoilers don't go well together.

They do normally...

HES · Postby **HES** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:25 pm UTC

Just don't overlap the tags and it should be fine.

As for the episode, did anyone else momentarily think after the doctor said it would "pass", that the guy had been passing and re-swallowing the gem the entire time?

flicky1991 · Postby **flicky1991** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:27 pm UTC

...Ew. No.

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