So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

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So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:58 pm UTC

So I've watched the first episode, and I know that I am unable to have unbiased views of it.

With that in mind, it was the most fun I've had watching TV in a while. It had lots of nods to the comics that as a fan of the character of the Flash, I really enjoyed.

I am looking forward to more of it.

some of the fun things that have me excited but might be spoilery
Spoiler:
Grodd's cage makes me excited at the possibility of a talking gorilla in live action,
Eddie Thwane even being in the show combined with the fact that I heard that they are tackling the reverse-flash in the first season, not just in the opening.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:08 pm UTC

I really enjoyed it! The Flash was probably always my favourite of the justice league (I didn't have any exposure to the comics).

I have been so looking forward to this since they had him in Arrow. I really like Barry - he doesn't seem at all dark and brooding, and seems pretty fun.

Spoiler:
A bit disappointed by the unrequited love storyline with the friend, but oh well. They seemed to completely retcon him and Felicity.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:14 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
A bit disappointed by the unrequited love storyline with the friend, but oh well. They seemed to completely retcon him and Felicity.

Spoiler:
it makes lots of sense regarding the comics, as Barry Allen marries Iris West
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:15 pm UTC

Ah!
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:47 pm UTC

Angua wrote:I really like Barry - he doesn't seem at all dark and brooding, and seems pretty fun.
While admittedly my comic's knowledge on DC speedsters is 5 or so years out of date...

Jay is not Dark and Brooding
Barry is not Dark and Brooding
Wally is not Dark and Brooding
Bart was not Dark and Brooding when he was Impulse. He got whaaaaangsty as Kid Flash in a way that .... I'm going to stop comic raging now and just say that's why I stopped following him.

NonFlash Speedsters -
Max is not Dark (but he is grumpy)
Johnny is not Dark and Brooding
Jesse was not Dark and Brooding, nor was she that Dark and Brooding as Liberty Belle
XS is not Dark and Brooding

I think it's impossible to be a Heroic Speedster in the DCU and be Dark, and the closest to Brooding you can get is to sometimes be a little down in the dumps, or just be grumpy (then again, the most pagetime Max got was raising Bart, so that's kinda expected)

Villainous Speedsters, on the other hand....
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Zohar » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:13 pm UTC

I was very disappointed. Stupid characters acting silly. Boring, predictable romantic plot (it's 2014! We can have a guy and a girl who are straight/bi/pan and not attracted to each other and just friends!), and in general just not very engaging. I won't continue to watch, for now. Although I guess, yeah, the fact he's not Batman-sad is a plus.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:21 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Angua wrote:I really like Barry - he doesn't seem at all dark and brooding, and seems pretty fun.
While admittedly my comic's knowledge on DC speedsters is 5 or so years out of date...

Jay is not Dark and Brooding
Barry is not Dark and Brooding
Wally is not Dark and Brooding
Bart was not Dark and Brooding when he was Impulse. He got whaaaaangsty as Kid Flash in a way that .... I'm going to stop comic raging now and just say that's why I stopped following him.

NonFlash Speedsters -
Max is not Dark (but he is grumpy)
Johnny is not Dark and Brooding
Jesse was not Dark and Brooding, nor was she that Dark and Brooding as Liberty Belle
XS is not Dark and Brooding

I think it's impossible to be a Heroic Speedster in the DCU and be Dark, and the closest to Brooding you can get is to sometimes be a little down in the dumps, or just be grumpy (then again, the most pagetime Max got was raising Bart, so that's kinda expected)

Villainous Speedsters, on the other hand....

Yeah, I think that's why I always preferred the Flash in the cartoons - I meant it as a contrast to all the DC superheroes at the moment - Batman and superman on the big screen, Oliver Queen in Arrow, and while I haven't seen Gotham I'm kind of expecting it to be like that as well (which is probably why I haven't bothered to try it yet).
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby ArgonV » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:26 pm UTC

Bit of a minor peeve of mine
Spoiler:
they go all scientific with Barry; "Oh you obviously need more glucose since you're using it up so fast" and then this guy comes along, able to produce a couple hundred instant clones of himself whilst obviously missing the mass to do so

Curious as to what's up with the pretending-to-be paralyzed doctor from the future.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:54 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I was wondering where all the clothes were coming from.


So, how many episodes until 'The Flash' gains more popularity than 'The Streak'?
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:56 pm UTC

I haven't seen this. I just have one question. Is it as bad as Smallville?
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:50 am UTC

It depends on what you didn't like about Smallville.
Zohar wrote:I was very disappointed. Stupid characters acting silly. Boring, predictable romantic plot (it's 2014! We can have a guy and a girl who are straight/bi/pan and not attracted to each other and just friends!), and in general just not very engaging. I won't continue to watch, for now. Although I guess, yeah, the fact he's not Batman-sad is a plus.


Isn't wrong in its assessment the predictability or intelligence of the characters and plot. But it takes these very predictable assets and uses them in a way I like. Combined with the fact that it starts with the Flash basically already a super-hero so it doesn't have the weird thing Smallville did with avoiding being the named superhero, which got annoying quickly.

I like comic book shows well enough to give anything related a shot, and this one executes it very well, well enough to give it a shot at least.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:12 pm UTC

I'm still waiting for Arrow to come up somewhere I can watch it, never mind Flash...

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:33 pm UTC

UniqueScreenname wrote:I haven't seen this. I just have one question. Is it as bad as Smallville?


Smallville had numerous conceptual problems. First, Superman is hard to make extended series about, given the usual problems with a protagonist that is only vulnerable to kryptonite, his loved ones being kidnapped, his own extremely irrational and stupid behavior, and end-of-the-world type scenarios. The number of plots are somewhat limited with superman, and smallville favored the first three options. The show also suffered from being duct-taped to a high school soap opera that made up an unreasonable amount of each episode. Ridiculously overpowered and peerless characters also tend to turn into angsty brooding bitches (see also: Tennant's Doctor Who), CK no exception.

Arrow has fewer problems, I think it's weakest point is that 1%:er douches are a bit hard to relate to. Plot-wise, it's much easier to write Green Arrow stories, as he's not invincible, but can actually get into trouble, hence his family doesn't need to get kidnapped every other week.

The Flash is about on the same level, without the protagonist being a self-absorbed dick. It's quite enjoyable. The writing is perhaps not the greatest in the world, but it's not offensively bad either. Given this is only season 1, I definitely think the show has serious promise.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:24 pm UTC

The other serious issue with Smallville was being tied to a fixed plan, with little room for development of certain aspects as the story tried to grow - Clark wasn't allowed to become Superman, but wasn't allowed to become anything else either; Lex had to be doomed to become evil even though, in the end, it turned out to be Lex's evil twin with added extra amnesia rather than Smallville-Lex who grows up to be the villain we know about; Lana had to be Clark's girlfriend and loved by everyone. Generally the show spent years in a holding pattern with an individual season's arc not allowed to make a significant change to the status quo...

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby mathmannix » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:23 pm UTC

I think one of the advantages this show has is that, despite the character himself being rather well-known as one of the DC comics superheroes (everybody knows Superman and Batman/Robin; next in familiarity would be Wonder Woman, followed by - probably in this order - Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash) he is lesser known because, other than his appearances in Super Friends and Justice League, there hasn't been a high-profile, successful show or movie featuring him (although he was in a couple of episodes of Smallville). And as far as I can recall, Justice League had Gorilla Grodd in a few episodes (and there was that one Flash-centric episode with Captain Boomerang, the Trickster, Mirror Master, and Captain Cold), but that was it. For those of us who never really read comic books but like the movies and TV shows, we know next to nothing about the Flash's world - love life (everybody knew who Lois Lane was when she showed up in Smallville!), enemies, whatever.

So, unlike in Gotham, where if they bring up a character almost in passing, I know exactly who it is (ooh, that guy was named Nygma, and he talked in riddles. He was played by Jim Carrey in the movie! Ooh, I bet that Oswald Cobblepot penguin-like guy won't get killed in the pilot!) I am kept spoiler-free, even if they follow the comic book.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:01 pm UTC

Damn, that was some ambitious FX this week.

Unrelated spoiler:

Spoiler:
So glad they kissed. ^_^


I hope they dump this "streak" business soon.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:32 pm UTC

CannedCourage wrote:Damn, that was some ambitious FX this week.

Unrelated spoiler:

Spoiler:
So glad they kissed. ^_^


I hope they dump this "streak" business soon.

I think the steak should be gone in the next episode or two.

Spoiler:
I will ship Felicity and Barry for life. They really are a great couple and are only not together because plot requires it.

Also, first actual nemesis for the show? I liked him as a villain exploiting the way Barry tries to save everyone.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:40 pm UTC

Indeed. I think all the relationships in this episode felt a bit more natural.

Spoiler:
I sincerely hope that Barry's arc throughout the season is getting over Iris, because it's hella creepy. You know, gaining some distance, ceasing to be her brother. It's the only way any future relationship will make sense.

Wasn't sure what was gonna happen with Captain Cold, pleasantly surprised how un-camp they pitched it. A friend was predicting ice puns.


Also, I guess the writer was a Farscape fan? E = MC Hammer? :D

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:52 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I think captain cold is manageable. I'm more concerned about how they're going to translate captain boomerang to live-action television. I think we're about as likely to meet him in The Flash as we are to encounter the Condiment King in Gotham (although I'm impressed Arrow had the guts to do the Clock King, so we never know).
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Nath » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:47 am UTC

I was not a fan of how they handled the villain of episode 4.
Spoiler:
The whole 'cold gun' thing made no sense. Why is it any more dangerous (to Barry or anyone else) than a regular gun? You still have to aim at the person and hit. Sure, it slows Barry down if he gets hit, but why can't he dodge the cold ray the same way he dodges bullets?

At one point, a security guard was pointing a gun at Snart, but ended up running away because Snart had a cold gun instead of a regular gun. What difference does it make?

I don't mind comic book logic taking some liberties with physics, or explaining things with technobabble. But this thing lacked any kind of internal logic, despite being a major part of the plot. It's as if they made a supervillain whose only distinguishing features are that his gun is painted an unusual color, and he wears earmuffs all the time. That's not a supervillain; it's just a regular villain with questionable fashion sense.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby ArgonV » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 am UTC

Spoiler:
Yeah, if they wanted to do something with that, they should've made him have something that slows down molecular movement in a certain radius around him AND a freeze gun or something.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby clockworkmonk » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:32 pm UTC

Spoiler:
in the comics Captain Cold tends to freeze the ground, making it difficult for the flash to run, or make it easier to control the flash's movements. A lot of Flash villains that that approach though.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:31 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Why are they doing that dumb thing where they kill all the villains.

Clancy Brown as General Eiling! ...and Amanda Waller in Arrow... Are we seeing the beginnings of a Cadmus storyline?

Are we gonna go full-on Grodd before the season is over? Man, it would be truly excellent if Powers Boothe reprised his role from JLU.

Also, very gratified to see that the writers are giving Barry and Iris room to breathe. +1 Confidence.

What is Wells up to? He's now seems unambiguously a time traveller. If he is you-know-who, then I think we're looking at a quite different interpretation. How does becoming Barry's mentor jive with also manufacturing his villains?

At this point, I kinda want him to be an original character.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:07 pm UTC

CannedCourage wrote:
Spoiler:
What is Wells up to? He's now seems unambiguously a time traveller. If he is you-know-who, then I think we're looking at a quite different interpretation. How does becoming Barry's mentor jive with also manufacturing his villains?

At this point, I kinda want him to be an original character.
Spoiler:
Well, I guess in order to be a true hero, you need to have proper villains for them to face? So he's manufacturing some up so Barry does the cool stuff he did in the past, but Wells gets to be there to see it happening?

Who knows though, it seems pretty weird.

I loved the fan voice (calling it that as I used to love speaking into my fan at home when I was a kid and listening to it sound like that). I hope he does it more often :) I doubt he will, but it's so awesome.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:34 pm UTC

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I am vexed.

Spoiler:
Did Wells just implicate himself? Or did we get our first in-universe indication that he is a red-herring? Damn you Tom Cavanagh!

Whoever he is, he has to know that the investigation is ongoing and that's only 3 people. Well, unless it's his dad. :O

No, that doesn't make sense.


On Arrow:

Spoiler:
Captain Boomerang?!? I was wondering why episode 8 would be a crossover! :D

EDIT: Just watched the trailer, seems it'll be unrelated? :/

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby pkcommando » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:20 pm UTC

Re: Arrow -

Spoiler:
There does seem to be a tie-in w/ Captain Boomerang in the 2-part crossover, according to the Official Descriptions that have been released.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:28 pm UTC

Cool to see more of Wells' other side, so to speak.

I'm convinced he's a red herring, but what if that's what they want me to think? D:

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby ArgonV » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:28 pm UTC

Yeah, I'm thinking Wells
Spoiler:
is just a well-intentioned extremist of sorts. Like the stinger of last episode; he's curious how that guy could drain Barry's power. That's played as sinister, but it could easily be to prevent other people from doing the exact same thing. He seems pretty pre-occupied with the whole conservation of the Flash. I'm just not sure why he's in the wheelchair.


And why do all the other metahumans seem to be either plain criminal or extremely mentally unbalanced? Except for maybe the soldier. But the steel guy would've made an awesome good guy. If Caitlin is right and the lightning chose him for a reason, why did it choose all the other persons as well?

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:02 pm UTC

Well, I think that line is just normal "chosen one" fluff, and also a reference to how Barry Allen dies in the comics. Also, I'm not entirely sure if the current explanation of Barry's powers will stand the test of time. The show is pretty reference overdosed, so I'd be surprised if they didn't address the change at some point, i.e. Wells not being entirely truthful.

Spoiler:
Also, Joe saw the reverse-flash and didn't say anything. Actual proof that he exists. I know why he didn't, but it's so tantalising!

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:49 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Why the Reverse Flash? It's a speedster that's mostly a red streak with some yellow lightning effects. It's either Barry Allen getting there through some kind of time travel shenanigans or a different person with the same power and the same custom made suit traveling back in time to before the suit was made.

As for Dr Wells, I have a totally tinfoil theory about how all this fits together. Basically we already know Wells is (some form of) a time traveler extremely interested in the Flash. I am thinking he's a future Barry Allen that somehow got transported back in time (probably to when his mother got killed) by that accident Dr Wells keeps checking on. He accidentally killed his mother and lost his powers in the process so now he's trying to guide his own development and avoid the whole tragedy. Given about ten years till the accident and ten years since his mother's death, the two have about the right age difference. It explains why Wells is so obsessed with making the Flash stronger, why he created the collider (presumably to create enough opponents for the "new" Flash to fight and thus become stronger), and why he is so interested in the metahuman capable of taking the Flash's powers. They are also both very smart* so a future Barry Allen would know all about these incredible technologies Wells is developing.

Other than being utterly ridiculous, the one major element that doesn't fit at all is that they set up Wells as such an obvious red herring. Even if my theory is mostly right, it would require he still has his super speed but has decided to train and test his younger self instead of developing his own abilities. I can't think of any reason he'd want to do that.

So does my theory make sense to anyone else? Does it fit with the tone and themes of the show or is the whole "accidentally killed his own mother" way too dark? Is there some obvious reason I've missed that makes it completely nonsensical?

* Although I am kind of disappointed Barry Allen has pretty much completely given up on being smart at this point and is just moving quickly to make up for being incredibly lazy. He was introduced as a very educated and motivated person but now we just see him sleep in and solve mysteries by just running everywhere faster than anyone expects he could. No stunningly unrealistic forensic science, little interest in the nature of his own powers and totally passive in the investigation of his mother's death.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:18 am UTC

I don't know, I think they're just trying to avoid creating CSI: Central City.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby ArgonV » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:24 am UTC

Yeah, it'd be annoying to have yet another show employing the Sherlock Scan. And the show is full of implausible science as is, let's not get episodes with infinite zoom from crappy security cameras.

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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby mathmannix » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:14 pm UTC

Well, I liked the Sherlock scan... I am also saddened by the failing to continue using it. That was always my favorite part of Psych and other shows.

OK, I finally caught up on watching the show (although I haven't seen last night's Arrow episode yet!) and so I feel I can read and comment on the spoilered comments.
Spoiler:
In the future newspaper, did anyone else notice that, aside from the main headline changing from "Flash Still Missing" (or something to that effect) to an article about the USPS closing, and "Red Lightning Storm Continues" to "Red Lightning Storm Goes Away" (paraphrasing again), the smaller headline changed from "WayneTech / Queen Industries Merger Completed" to "[same] Falls Through"? I wonder how that was affected by the Flash's disappearance, probably in light of his friendship with Ollie? (And, could anyone read any of the actual articles? They were too small on my TV screen, but I didn't know if they were actually resolutionable.)

Also, if Wells can see 10 years into the future (I am not convinced he is a time traveler, but at the least his computer "Gideon" can see the future newspapers!) then shouldn't he foresee a Justice League / Bunch of Super Friends etc., probably including Green Arrow?

Also also, I am engladdened by the speculation that there is some sort of evil "Reverse Flash" going on, instead of (as I originally supposed) Jay Garrick having turned evil.
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:22 pm UTC

The Flash vs Arrow episode:
Spoiler:
I really enjoyed the way Oliver shot him in the back pointing out that he doesn't spend enough time making use of his surroundings.

Also, did anyone notice that when he was running around Oliver in the alley it looked exactly like the yellow lightning from his mom/Joe?
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby clockworkmonk » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:23 pm UTC

Angua wrote:The Flash vs Arrow episode:
Spoiler:
I really enjoyed the way Oliver shot him in the back pointing out that he doesn't spend enough time making use of his surroundings.

Also, did anyone notice that when he was running around Oliver in the alley it looked exactly like the yellow lightning from his mom/Joe?


Spoiler:
very similar, but red with yellow streaks instead of yellow with red streaks. Thats how you know it is Reverse-Flash and not Flash.

Also, I am excited for Firestorm (Ronnie Raymond, though I wonder if they are going the classic route where Firestorm is two people merged togetheh)
418 I'm a teapot

CannedCourage
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:42 pm UTC

I very much enjoyed the crossover. The fight in the Flash episode was excellent.

Spoiler:
They're 2 for 2 on translating the Flash's rouges to screen, in my opinion. Also, what's up with ASIS in this universe? It's like a super villain factory.


Casting spoilers:

Spoiler:
Speaking of which, guess who is reprising his role from TV and the DCAU? Clicky

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ArgonV
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby ArgonV » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:32 pm UTC

Can someone explain what just happened?

CannedCourage
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby CannedCourage » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:19 pm UTC

...huh. So that happened.

Spoiler:
Harrison Wells is the Reverse Flash! Oh man, when he pulled out the ring at the end it was like, what colour will the suit be! D:

Not only that, but the episode implied he is, in fact, Eobard Thawne, i.e. when he didn't kill Eddie.


Spoilers based on the comics:

Spoiler:
Interesting! I just read an article about tonight's episode. There were actually two characters to have been called the Reverse Flash, Thawne and a guy called Hunter Zoloman. It seems this second guy is more in line with Wells' characterisation, which may indicate that he is a Reverse Flash, but not the one responsible for Nora's death. Then again, he may just be a composite character of both Thawne and Zoloman.

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Angua
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby Angua » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:25 pm UTC

So we thinking:
Spoiler:
remote controlled suit? Or Wells time-travelling to be the Reverse Flash and still be able to beat himself up?

Also, what do we think about the two speedsters that killed the mother?
'Look, sir, I know Angua. She's not the useless type. She doesn't stand there and scream helplessly. She makes other people do that.'
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ArgonV
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Re: So there is this guy who can run the fastest (The Flash)

Postby ArgonV » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:03 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I'm not convinced Wells is the guy in yellow. It looked to me like that guy was a lot more buff than Wells is. It's pretty obvious he's in league with him and might even be him from a different timeline, since tachyons in a TV show always mean there's gonna be time travel. Which there also already is on this show.

Also, Caitlyn's ex-fiancée. Looks like there's finally one meta-human that hasn't inexplicably gone evil or formed from someone who was (borderline) insane to start with. Though he does seem to be somewhat confused.


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