Kerbal Space Program

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Coin » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:05 pm UTC

I am pleased by all the pictures and images of polished rockets but I can't help but wonder; what has happened to all the spectacular failures?
Do you still cause massive fire balls flanked by rockets spiralling away towards the horizon?
Has Kerbnology evolved to a point where the rockets are not dangerous any more?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:34 am UTC

Coin wrote:I am pleased by all the pictures and images of polished rockets but I can't help but wonder; what has happened to all the spectacular failures?
Do you still cause massive fire balls flanked by rockets spiralling away towards the horizon?
Has Kerbnology evolved to a point where the rockets are not dangerous any more?

No, I think people have just gotten better at building rockets that don't disintegrate. A couple of the videos I've posted do contain failures on my part though. Once when my main engine broke off, but I still held it together and achieved orbit. Once when I overshot Kerbin on a hyperbolic orbit because I fat-fingered the time acceleration. I do edit out some of my mistakes, but keep most of them in.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:38 pm UTC

Coin wrote:I am pleased by all the pictures and images of polished rockets but I can't help but wonder; what has happened to all the spectacular failures?
Do you still cause massive fire balls flanked by rockets spiralling away towards the horizon?
That's a quarter of my launches, since I slap a rocket together, light up the engines and as it lifts off think "Wait.. did I put struts on this?"

The answer is always no.

Though it is pretty hilarious to see a rocket ripped apart as the engine breaks off and moves freely upward, through the rest of the rocket.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:42 pm UTC

My favorite 'weird behavior' thing is when you forget to release the support towers after firing the engines, and they somehow hold the rocket on the ground.

But you know, if you let the rocket settle on it's own the whole thing falls apart.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:49 pm UTC

I want to get into this game, but I got the demo, and followed the tutorial, and didn't know what the fuck I was doing, I sent my basic rocket to the launch pad, but couldn't even work out how to launch it!, is there a good tutorial anyone could recommend to get the basics?

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Spacebar moves through the stages.

At the start, if your rocket has 8 stages, you're at stage 9. Hitting space moves you to 8. Left Shift ups your thrust if it's a fuel-based engine, left ctrl downs it.

This is all the tutorial you need.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:31 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Spacebar moves through the stages.

At the start, if your rocket has 8 stages, you're at stage 9. Hitting space moves you to 8. Left Shift ups your thrust if it's a fuel-based engine, left ctrl downs it.

This is all the tutorial you need.


thanks,

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Jofur » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

Hope you enjoy it! I sure do.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:25 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Spacebar moves through the stages.

At the start, if your rocket has 8 stages, you're at stage 9. Hitting space moves you to 8. Left Shift ups your thrust if it's a fuel-based engine, left ctrl downs it.

This is all the tutorial you need.


thanks,


If you want more direction than just key bindings, here you go.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wst » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:04 pm UTC

I can asparagus stage 4x symmetry easily enough (I just use 2 sets of 2-symmetry tanks that are identical) - is more complex asparagus staging just "place more in 2-symmetry mode", or is there a trick so I only have to click once to place 6 tanks, and then I can manage the fuel line connections independently (instead of 6x-ing them like it does at the moment, assuming I want to continue making the ship in 6x mode).
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

The way I currently do it is seven total, with the logical system being 4321234 (4 being outmost, 1 innermost), but the actual construction is revolver-style six around a central seventh.

So when the tanks drop, they do it symmetrically.

I have experimented with larger styles that are thirteen tanks total, but those tend to start spinning too quickly in atmosphere and break apart.

Code: Select all

 4 3
2 1 2
 3 4

and

 5 4 3 7
6 2 1 2 6
 7 3 4 5
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wst » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:34 pm UTC

Width is the enemy of straight lines. So you place each pair of tanks-that-drop as individual pairs, and use (I'm guessing) snap-to-angle to ensure symmetry?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:30 pm UTC

I typically place with six-fold symmetry, and then manually assign the decouplers, and manually link the fuel.

Look back at Sly's rocket, it's really awesome for getting just about anywhere in the kerbal system. I've been experimenting with getting a kind of tiered doohicky, spaced with girders, with multiple Ion engines clustered at each tier. It *really* makes me wish farings (fairings?) were in place to make it look less ugly in launch.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:11 am UTC

wst wrote:Width is the enemy of straight lines. So you place each pair of tanks-that-drop as individual pairs, and use (I'm guessing) snap-to-angle to ensure symmetry?

Yup. I use the mirror one, so I place two at a time. Both 4s drop, then 3s, etc.

I often make it to orbit with half of the twos and all of the 1 to burn. And that's doing the inefficient "flat-out burn to 60,000 feet then turn hard right" method.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:03 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Spacebar moves through the stages.

At the start, if your rocket has 8 stages, you're at stage 9. Hitting space moves you to 8. Left Shift ups your thrust if it's a fuel-based engine, left ctrl downs it.

This is all the tutorial you need.


thanks,


If you want more direction than just key bindings, here you go.


Double thanks!

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:04 pm UTC

Have a lander in orbit around Kerbal, accidentally dumped two of the six tanks/engines, but sent a refueling mission to it so it's topped off now.

Going to try coming home early to assemble ginormous vehicle.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:10 pm UTC

I wonder if you'd get less spin if you did this:

Code: Select all

   5 2 3 5
  6 4 1 4 6
   5 3 2 5

With 6 feeding the 5s, the 5s feeding the 4. While the 5s would be "on ship" longer than you'd really want, it would maintain more symmetry.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:36 pm UTC

The way to eliminate spin is to stick winglets on the outer stages and use an ASAS module to control them.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:08 pm UTC

No no.. it's spinning *with* SAS controllers on each tank, and an ASAS near the payload itself.

Wings seem to only slow it slightly. Turning off SAS usually results in a catastrophic explosion five seconds later as the whole thing spins itself apart. Both my designs start spinning, it's just that the spin force is greater in the larger one so it's usually spinning too fast in atmosphere. Once I'm out of the atmosphere I can slow down and get it all under control.

I may want to try Yak's design though. I don't think the fives would be on there too long as - so long as they've got fuel in them, I want them on board and all four would eject at the same time, so.. no big deal.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wst » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:11 pm UTC

Working on my standard lifter last night revealed that my woes with asparagus-staging in the past are no longer evident! I used to have issues placing fuel lines independent of other symmetry on the parts I was joining, but no more!

My mainsail inner-stage keeps driving straight through my lower stage. Is it just a case of less power, or more struts?

What engines are you using, ST? Try turning off gimballing on any outer engines you're using, they put some torque on the craft when they gimbal, and because they move instantaneously from 0 degrees to maximum gimbal, they're a bit funky for ship control.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Yakk » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

What kind of wings, ST? There are gimballed and non-gimballed wings. I assume they do different things...
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:23 pm UTC

I may need to try the disabling gimbal thing.

As for the parts I use...

These tanks as singles (or sometimes these stacked in threes), with this engine, these wings and attached with struts and this pylon.

I call it the "Fuck you, this thing is getting in to orbit" design. I know the way I use it is inefficient, but I'm fine with that. It - so far at least - has gotten damn near anything I slap on it into orbit.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:25 pm UTC

That's a canard, not a winglet. This is a winglet (I've played canardy winglety before), and it's what I always use when I want to stop my humongous rockets from spinning. I think canards are designed for planes, whereas the winglet is actually designed for rockets. It may work better, it may not. But it's worth a try.

By the way Iz, while you're having fun with that nuclear tug plus lander thing, I recently built something a bit more impressive. I'm not sure it actually gives me much more delta-v than the old nuclear tug, I just wanted to build something bigger and more elaborate.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wst » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:16 pm UTC

Over 3000m/s into the atmosphere. I think 19.1 may be one of the final builds when you can do that :p
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I recently built something a bit more impressive.

SPLOOSH

Looks awesome! The wobble seemed kind of iffy?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Coin » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:By the way Iz, while you're having fun with that nuclear tug plus lander thing, I recently built something a bit more impressive. I'm not sure it actually gives me much more delta-v than the old nuclear tug, I just wanted to build something bigger and more elaborate.


Now that's what I call a space tug! Fantastic construction!

I'm glad to hear that crashes are still happening and that there are still catastrophic failures in the world =)
I appreciate that growing skill brings fewer accidents though; it would be strange if it weren't so.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:59 pm UTC

wst wrote:Over 3000m/s into the atmosphere. I think 19.1 may be one of the final builds when you can do that :p


Well real life space capsules re-enter at at least twice that, so I think the overly robust materials of the kerbal space program should handle it. At least I came in at a grazing angle rather than straight down; the G-meter never went particularly high.

Izawwlgood wrote:Looks awesome! The wobble seemed kind of iffy?


An unavoidable consequence of orbital construction. Docking ports are just wobbly by nature, and there's nothing that can be done to strengthen them without downloading mods like quantum struts.

Coin wrote:
Now that's what I call a space tug! Fantastic construction!


Thanks. I was quite proud of that one. In theory, there's no limit to the number of fuel tanks you can stick on the back of it. In practice, there's a limit to the distance at which physics works, but it's a pretty long way, like 2.5km or so. I'd love to see a 2.5km long space train. That would be wobbly.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:07 pm UTC

Dual dock ports?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:10 pm UTC

From my experience, they're more trouble than they're worth. It's very difficult to get both ports lined up so that they both couple properly. I think single ports are fine; the wobble seems alarming, but it's manageable.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby wst » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:57 pm UTC

May be worth it if the wobble gets unbearable (snap happy), if you're that desperate to take the extra stuff out there...
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:57 pm UTC

The thing about docking ports is that they're wobbly as hell, but they're surprisingly strong. If something goes wrong, it's usually one of the docking ports that breaks away from the structure rather than the the two docking ports disengaging. And wobbling can be cancelled out by time accelerating. So really, I'm happy to put up with the wobble.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:59 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:From my experience, they're more trouble than they're worth. It's very difficult to get both ports lined up so that they both couple properly. I think single ports are fine; the wobble seems alarming, but it's manageable.

In retrospect, I'm only even suggesting that because I saw it in a video someone posted; I assume that they just used the same core with ports and built from it to eliminate the need to perfectly align ports.

I made the mistake last night of letting a probe cored rocket run out of electricity. No big deal for a docking maneuver, except i couldn't retract the docking port shield. Ugh.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby PolakoVoador » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:23 am UTC

Oh fuck it, there are planets now? Now I HAVE to buy this game.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Technical Ben » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:43 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:From my experience, they're more trouble than they're worth. It's very difficult to get both ports lined up so that they both couple properly. I think single ports are fine; the wobble seems alarming, but it's manageable.

In retrospect, I'm only even suggesting that because I saw it in a video someone posted; I assume that they just used the same core with ports and built from it to eliminate the need to perfectly align ports.

I made the mistake last night of letting a probe cored rocket run out of electricity. No big deal for a docking maneuver, except i couldn't retract the docking port shield. Ugh.


This. I'm making reconfigurable bases and rockets to achieve this. Not tried it on stations yet, due to wobble and design problems though. But my current rocket design for interplanetary (not yet successfully tested) involves launching 3 rockets with side mounted ports and docking them sideways to get a craft 3 times the size to fly about. It's easier than trying to launch all 3 rockets on one launching platform. :O

I do however use construction vehicles to help dock them. although I think I need to work on the balance and alignment a little more.

PS, there are planets, rovers and (graphical only so far) entry effects. Even Mach effects now. :)
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:11 am UTC

...huh. My Mickey Mouse rover can do .. .uh.. pretty good speeds with no problems on the Mun.
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In the time it took me to find this, attach it, and write this, the buggy is now going 47m/s. But seriously guys buggies are fun holy crap wheee!

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:31 am UTC

So I built a couple of rovers. The problem is that all of the kerbal carrying capsules make rovers that are a little too big to be secondary ships even for the largest landers. So I built this:
Spoiler:
(KSP) Munar Minimal Rover.PNG

Instead of being held inside a capsule the kerbals hold onto ladders mounted on the outside of the rover, allowing the rover to be much smaller.
Spoiler:
(KSP) Munar Lander.PNG

Two of the rovers are then mounted on the side of a largish lander. I built a rocket to get this lander to the Mun and it was pretty smooth sailing. The problem arose when I actually got there. While the rover performed well in field tests back at KSC, on the Mun it weighed so little that the torque of the probe core flips it when pressing "w". Does anyone know if it is possible to divorce the SAS of ship from the driving the rover wheels.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:25 am UTC

You can set it to docking mode with one of the buttons on the bottom left of the screen. Make sure it's in translation rather than rotation mode. Then the WASD keys won't rotate the probe.

That's a pretty nice setup by the way. When you drop the rovers off the side of the lander, do they always land right side up?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:57 am UTC

Yep, that works perfectly. The little rovers are actually really nice to drive with docking mode active.

Every time I've dropped them from the lander with the gear down they have ended up the right way up. It is one of the things I made sure of when designing and testing them. So far I've only tried it twice on the Mun, but I think it should be the same every time. There might be some problems on bodies with extremely low gravity like Pol because of bouncing, but I don't know yet.

Edit: The rover also lands right side up when deployed from this:
Spoiler:
(KSP) Duna Rover Dry Run.PNG

Which is going to be the lander for my Duna expedition and the design for which was stolen from SlyReaper.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:06 am UTC

Oh, Exley maneuver... Well, that'll save a lot of fuel next time.

Managed to land on Duna, despite virtually running out of fuel dicking around with arranging an intercept, via the magic that is aerobreaking. Pretty sweet shedding all that orbital velocity!

Poor kerbals, I hope you like the view.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Technical Ben » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

Have now landed a small rover on Duna with parachutes only, after the de-orbit burn.
Managed to return the landing craft for my second rover from Ike too, so to reuse it for another flyby. Currently, while successful, have not bothered with setting off at the right period and basically just burning for the nearest planet.
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